• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:54
CEST 12:54
KST 19:54
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy9[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple2BSL Season 238Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon101Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Announcement RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 544 Double Trouble The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses Mutation # 542 The Ascended
Brood War
General
BSL Season 23 Bot on ladder screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool PLAYzone Challenge - open offline tour in Prague BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro8 Day 2 PLAYzone Challenge - open offline tour in Prague [ASL22] Ro16 Group D [ASL22] Ro8 Day 1
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo IV Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine All you football fans (soccer)!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Gaming Intensity, Problemati…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11054 users

Playing it Safe

Blogs > Selendis
Post a Reply
Selendis
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia509 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-10 07:16:17
February 10 2012 06:34 GMT
#1
I have a problem TL.

I really don't like losing. Especially not to ladder scrubs.

It all started last week. After an epic string of wins smudged with a few intermittent losses, I started losing again. When it rains it pours. Last saturday was the senith of my losing streak, it sent me way into tilt and I stupidly stopped all-inning and tried to macro cheese my zerg opponents in the Ghosts of Tarsonis Campaign .

I lost. Every. Single. Match.

I had to kill a few puppies that night to vent my frustration, but the damage was done. I woke up the next day praying that there was another way to play PvZ. Not necessarily an all-in, just a way to cut through the cheesiness and overdronage and play a straight forward 2 base vs 2 base. Then I saw Nyast's thread on such a thing; a contain using cannons and ff's off a gate expansion.

I tried it and it gave me some wins but also some losses as I realized it's weakness; anything that kills a 1 gate expo kills it easy peasy, not to mention zerg who blindly mass roaches off two base because they can. When that happens, you cannot even get the contain up.

So now I am back to FFE in PvZ. Full circle. But, I am stronger for it. No longer do I blindly rush for robo, no I get sentries and hallucination. If I get attacked, the sentries are my salvation and if I don't then the hallucinations give me the scouting info I need to react and bring on the pain, whether it be an early third with gate way tech, 2 base collosus or a gateway all in. Safety first.

[image loading]
The typical start of a PvT when it's all that's saving me from demotion.


One Chronoboosted 12gate later...
[image loading]
VICTORY


Similarly, my clutch PvT that has saved my mmr time and time again took a few hits and went from >60% win rate down to 58%.But the "how" was the most utterly humiliating. Namely I lost a PvT I had all but won. It all started with a marine rush that almost killed my nexus. but then wg finished and zealots warped in for the slice and dice with a lil help of my "F" key. He then expanded. I considered expanding myself, but I was feeling cocky, I took my third.

[image loading]
Yay for redundant FF's!


I slowly teched up to a collosus/high templar/archon deathball and kept denying his third while I kept gobbling up the map. Nevertheless something unnerved me; I couldn't get any scouting info. His base was lined with turrets and tanks, an inpenetrable fortress. Oh well, time to go for mass carriers. Nevermind the fact that I was already sitting on 200/200.

But then he switched from turtle terran to mass cloaked banshee multipronged-attack terran. Every one of my 8 expansions and my main got hit at once. I knew my multitasking wasn't good enough to save every base but I figured that if his army was attacking me his base would be undefended and I woudl win a base race anyway on account of having quadruple more bases than him and dps to boot.

[image loading]
Perhaps this wasn't such a great idea...


I a-moved with confidence only to hear the loud shotgun blast of a dozen siegetanks one shotting my ground army.

The game went on, but it ended with me losing a 50minute game.


[image loading]


I checked his rank.... Gold

GOLD?!

GOLD?! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRGGHH

I leaped off my chair and shook violently, delicately took my colorful sc2 headset off that was brimming with red then ran out the door, doing an angry dance in the empty yard in the middle of an unsuspecting suburbia.

OOOOOOOH the humilation. A Gold. A f-ing Gold.

After punching the ground for 5minutes I collected myself and washed off the dirt before bnet stalking the man who dominated me harder than Mistress C.

Huh, That's interesting. 6 wins in a row against diamond protosses. Every single game was over 40 minutes long. I didn't feel so bad after that. I still kind of regretting not 8 gating him, but then I remembered his great wall of rax he built at his natural. I guess next time I should take a leaf out of my PvZ book and spam hallucinations to scout next time. Not that I think I will ever encounter him again.

Anyway so a day or so ago I started winning again, if only because the matchmaker pitied me and decided to give me easier opponents. I have stabilised but I can't help but to reflect on the change of my mentality.

Last week I was looking for the right kill sequence in every match, now I'm just trying to stay alive long enough for me to opportunize on my opponent's mistakes.

**
Probes are sooo OP
iTzSnypah
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1738 Posts
February 10 2012 06:51 GMT
#2
From what I read, you're a turtle toss. Playing it safe doesn't mean you have to play defensively (I believe the pro's have figured it out because they are always doing something with their first units). I'm going to assume your Platinum because the Diamond/Gold matches described. Staying alive long enough to capitalize on opponent mistakes is not bad, however if you don't force mistakes then your effectively doing NOTHING. You lost the PvT described because you did nothing; you let your opponent cut corners. Unfortunately this game isn't about who can play the safest, it's what you can get away with. An easy example is in PvZ where the Protoss FFE's, the Zerg has 2 options, 2base all-in or 3rd hatch. Most Zerg's choose 3rd hatch because they can get away with it, while the 2base all-in most likely has the same win rate.
Team Liquid needs more Terrans.
Selendis
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia509 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-10 07:32:33
February 10 2012 07:18 GMT
#3
Probes are sooo OP
Selendis
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia509 Posts
February 10 2012 07:32 GMT
#4
On February 10 2012 15:51 iTzSnypah wrote:
From what I read, you're a turtle toss. Playing it safe doesn't mean you have to play defensively (I believe the pro's have figured it out because they are always doing something with their first units). I'm going to assume your Platinum because the Diamond/Gold matches described. Staying alive long enough to capitalize on opponent mistakes is not bad, however if you don't force mistakes then your effectively doing NOTHING. You lost the PvT described because you did nothing; you let your opponent cut corners. Unfortunately this game isn't about who can play the safest, it's what you can get away with. An easy example is in PvZ where the Protoss FFE's, the Zerg has 2 options, 2base all-in or 3rd hatch. Most Zerg's choose 3rd hatch because they can get away with it, while the 2base all-in most likely has the same win rate.


Ok your post is getting on my nerves.

Firstly I'm not a turtle toss, I earnt my way to diamond just like every other protoss; by 2 base all-inning.

Secondly, I'm not plat, save on SEA . With a grand total of 2 people on at any one time on SEA it's hard to get a promotion.

I lost the PvT due to bad decisionmaking and multitasking, in terms of "turtling" he was the turtler since I way, way out expanded him and perpetually denied his third.
Probes are sooo OP
MysteryMeat1
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States3292 Posts
February 10 2012 07:57 GMT
#5
I know what you mean. Their is nothing more frustrating then losing. Actually scratch that, losing multiple times in a row (mid-masters toss) however, if i go on a lose streak, and start tilting. I do one of two things.

1st: play monobattles: honestly i only encounter players that are plat and lower. makes me feel good.

2nd: I have a guilty addiction to trolling peep mode with my friend. You play badly for the first 4 minutes, everyone bets against you, friend bets on you. Proceed to ROFLSTOMP and feel good. Your friend also feels good. If your friend is good, like mine is, then you can switch while both of you rake in the chips.

GLHF in the future
"Cause ya know, Style before victory." -The greatest mafia player alive
Zariel
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia1312 Posts
February 10 2012 09:53 GMT
#6
I'm a high masters protoss on my own account, but I also offrace random a fair bit on my friends account and he's in plat league at the moment. I've vs'ed top8 diamond players a few times, stomped them and left them dumbfounded if I manage to random protoss
sup
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PondCast
10:00
Episode 110
CranKy Ducklings25
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko278
Rex 37
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 3139
Bisu 1180
Soulkey 343
Stork 188
Last 133
ggaemo 110
Light 105
Dewaltoss 81
Barracks 68
HiyA 45
[ Show more ]
soO 42
sorry 35
ToSsGirL 30
Sharp 25
Free 19
Aegong 15
uThermal 14
Noble 6
Dota 2
Gorgc4505
XaKoH 600
League of Legends
JimRising 313
Counter-Strike
edward185
byalli161
kRYSTAL_106
Other Games
gofns44040
shoxiejesuss600
crisheroes286
Livibee107
KnowMe79
Mew2King46
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream12397
Other Games
gamesdonequick590
StarCraft: Brood War
Afreeca ASL 406
StarCraft 2
WardiTV43
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 7
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 66
• mYiSmile19
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2273
Other Games
• WagamamaTV83
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Invitational
6m
IntoTheiNu 60
Rex37
Replay Cast
13h 6m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 16h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 23h
GSL
2 days
Yamato Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Soma vs Jaedong
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Leta vs Soulkey
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Calamity Invitational
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.