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I could've just made the title "New Games Are Terrible" as that would also be true but for this I'm just focusing on RPGs. I grew up loving them and playing at least what I used to think was a lot of different ones as a kid, but recently I've started to realize how many of them I've missed over the years. The last RPG that I can say I legitimately liked was Tales of Symphonia for the Gamecube (which was absolutely fantastic and if you haven't played it I high recommend that you do at your earliest convenience). Everything since then I've tried pretty hard to like but everything's been completely forgettable. It's pretty easy to realize the sad state that modern RPGs are in when you see that Bioware is one of the biggest RPG developers.
So anyways I've decided to go back and play all the games that I've missed over the years. There were a few on the SNES that I missed and TONS on the PS1, mostly because the N64 was my console of choice back in the N64 vs PSX days. There are also a lot of PS2 games that I didn't play but for now I'm just gonna focus on SNES and PSX for now. So here's the list that I've come up with:
SNES GAMES:
Earthbound
Seiken Densetsu 3
Secret of Evermore
Lufia and the Fortress of Doom
Lufia II Rise of the Sinistrals
Breath of Fire
Terranigma
FFIV
FFV
FF Mystic Quest (maybe)
Tales of Phantasia
Ogre Battle - The March of the Black Queen
7th Saga
Games I've Already Played That People Keep Mentioning
Chrono Trigger
Super Mario RPG
FFVI (best game ever)
Breath of Fire II
Secret of Mana
Soul Blazer
Illusion of Gaia
PLAYSTATION GAMES:
Chrono Cross
Brave Fencer Musashi
Suikoden
Suikoden 2
Xenogears
Breath of Fire III
Breath of Fire IV
Lunar
Lunar 2
FFVIII
FF Tactics CURRENTLY PLAYING
Wild Arms
Wild Arms 2
Parasite Eve
Parasite Eve 2
Legend of Dragoon
Legend of Mana
Tales of Destiny
Tales of Eternia
Valkyrie Profile
Vagrant Story
Games I've Already Played That People Keep Mentioning
FFVII
FFIX
Yes I'm going to finish this entire list.
Some of these (like Chrono Trigger, Earthbound, FFIV, and FFV) are games that I've played through at least somewhat at some point or a few times in the case of Chrono Trigger, but just never got around to finishing. Are there any games that I should add to this list? I've been streaming most of my playthrough of Chrono Trigger (almost done) and I'll probably stream most of the other games that I play, although watching some guy play jrpgs is pretty boring I'll admit.
 
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Wait, was tales the one where the protagonist took a full minute to climb up ladders an stuff? Witcher 2, dragon age 1, and mass effect 1 were all pretty good, but I agree, old rpgs were awesome. Mostly because without graphics they had to fill up content with, well... content. No cutscenes, all text and characterization.
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I know how you feel but I eventually had to settle with newer games. I mean, I don't REGRET playing Skyrim through but it certainly wasn't SNES hard or even SNES engaging, yeah? If you haven't played it through you should, just to keep up with pop culture.
If you have a Nintendo DS (or an emulator w/ roms) the new Pokemon Black/White games are pretty good. Actually I've found the Nintendo DS to be a pretty good source of "Classic feeling" games of all sorts, including RPGs.
If you are into Final Fantasy Tactics you should DEFINITELY look into the Disgaea series, La Pucelle Tactics, Phantom Brave. Mostly PS2 games but they're all great.
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here's a few more for ps1 you might like:
star ocean
persona
persona 2: eternal punishment
kartia: word of fate
tactics ogre
saga frontier 1 and 2
sayuki: journey west
there's also a translation for bahamut lagoon for snes which is pretty good
also if you're a chrono trigger fan, at least one playthrough of radical dreamers is manditory
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Dude, FF7 is not on the fucking list! And what about PC games? Baldur's Gate?
Dragon Age was pretty good if you forget the DLCs and sequels, and The Witcher (currently playing) is awesome. But yes, quality has gone down, especially in J-RPGs.
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SNES
Breath of Fire 2
Front Mission
PS1
FFVII
FFIX
Vandal Hearts
Front Mission 3
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Remove Mystic Quest from that list, and add Final Fantasy VI. Mystic Quest is like....RPG lite for retards. Even the story sucks. FF6 is amazingly awesome.
Breath of Fire 2 on the SNES was also well worth your time. BoF4 wasn't....great......
Secret of Mana is you have't played it is good, better than Evermore imho.
You can also add Tactics Ogre to your PSX lineup if you can find it.
Legend of Mana you can probably skip unless you're just reeeeeally into it. That game was....ugh....not really worth it. They've all been pretty terrible since the jump to PSX.
Another BIG one for the PSX is Star Ocean: The Second Story. Still my favorite of the Star Ocean series.
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FFVII and FFIX on the PSX were both great Final Fantasy games, especially compared to the newer ones. Also on the PSX are the some good ones from the Megami Tensei series, specifically Persona and Persona 2: Eternal Punishment.
Also Secret of Mana on SNES also known as Seiken Densetsu 2.
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FFVII and Secret of Mana aren't on the list because I've already played them. And FFVII isn't as good as the others in the series anyway. It's incredibly overrated.
And I don't remember climbing ladders taking a while in Tales of Symphonia. I don't really remember every being weighed down with waiting for nonsense to finish like I am with everything that comes out today.
also already played FFIX, Breath of Fire II, and FFVI (my favorite game ever)
I would't just skip games in a series I didn't list it because I've already played it.
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Baldur's Gate I and II.
KOTOR
Tales of Destiny II
Tales of Symphonia.
All decent games. Same with Dragon Age: Origins/Awakening if you're in that sort of thing.
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Before you write off the modern RPG genre completely (and for the most part I agree with you) give Xenoblade a try. The Japanese and European releases are already out, but if you're in NA you'll have to wait until April. Brilliant game; it takes a lot of the best aspects of the JPRG genre and misses most of the pitfalls - on top of that, it's a lot prettier than an older game (especially if you emulate it on a decent computer).
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I agree with the title. And your list, though somewhat incomplete  !, seems really good. Whenever I get an RPG craving I always go oldschool.
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New RPGs do suck, and fuck FF7...that was the game that destroyed FF to me.
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Final Fantasy X had a perfect battle and upgrade system and a lot of challenging battles in and out of the story. That absolutely deserves a mention. To be perfectly honest though I think FFXIII wasn't bad (not amazing) and I thought it slotted in well with the Final Fantasy feel. The only thing missing were towns. I grew to enjoy the battle system after a while and the art direction is superb. There were also some pretty hard battles;I still haven't beat Orphan, and motherfucking Barthandalus battles are nightmares. Comparing Barthandalus with Seymour the only Seymour battle I had trouble with was Seymour Flux. Barthandalus was difficult every time.
I can't say much about Bioware games because I've only played KOTOR, which was awesome. There was an intense thread on /v/ the other day talking about how deep and philosophical KOTOR 2 is, but I heard it's incomplete.
All I know is that you should stop being such a cynic and look at things with a like vs. don't like mentality a la Day[9]. Don't compare games to others, just evaluate them on their own merits. Skyrim, for example, is buggy, but it's a solid game otherwise. Notice how I don't have to go HURRR MORROWIND 4EVAR when playing the game. It's just like my idiot friends who write off Minecraft for the graphics when they don't realize the beauty and potential of the game.
Just learn to enjoy things for what they are.
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One game that i just watched HCBaily Let's play which I enjoyed a lot is Radiant historia for the DS. It was amazing!
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Lufia 2.......
i think i may have found what my 1k post will be about
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final fantasy X was HORRENDOUS
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Radiant Historia was definitely awesome. Probably my favorite JRPG since the SNES days.
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On January 30 2012 09:44 TheAmazombie wrote:
New RPGs do suck, and fuck FF7...that was the game that destroyed FF to me.
On January 30 2012 09:32 atmuh wrote:
FFVII and Secret of Mana aren't on the list because I've already played them. And FFVII isn't as good as the others in the series anyway. It's incredibly overrated..
T_T Its always on top of every list of best games of all times.
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Ni No Kuni and Xenoblade come out soon in NA. Both have received critical acclaim
If you enjoy Chrono Trigger one game already mentioned is Radiant Historia
Don't waste your time playing any of the Mana/Lufia/BoF games after the second (imo BoF as a series isn't good but many people like the first two).
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If you like Earthbound you should like Mother 3 for GBA, with fan translation patch.
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Whoa whoa whoa whoa, you have FF8 on your list? But not 7 or 9???? 8 and 10 are the worst!!!!!!!!!
Edit: Sorry, i thought that was a list of recommended games, I'd skip 8 TBH
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wow i'm surprised some of you dislike ff10 O_O ..
it was one of my absolute favorites, the story built up really well and had that classic final fantasy feel
the battle system flowed well, and the sphere grid was fucking amazing as far as character development can go, very well done in my opinion.
ff7 set the tone for amazing storylines and revolutionized the rpg styles at that time, thats why its regarded so highly
ff8 had a decent story, great improvements to visuals, but the junction system was a pile of ass, and the game had its share of flaws
ff9 was an absolute godsend to rpgs, the game was fucking fantastic, loved it so much, played it a ton of times
ff12 was interesting, again decent story to be told, and another unique battle system yet easily abusable. still liked it tho
oh and i'm replaying chrono trigger again as we speak, just got robo and about to head to the factory
i fucking miss all of these games
also - i enjoyed ff13, lightning my favorite character ever, story was pretty compelling (altho ending was lackluster), and i only really hated vanille (and kind of hope), but the battle system was the sexiest thing ever
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I think that the people that don't like ffX didn't play though to the end. Tidus was indeed a very werid charicter at the begining but by the end everything made sense.
+ Show Spoiler [ Spoilers] + Him basically being the creation of some dream thing of a kid. After he learned that his father was sin now as well he got a lot better I think as well and really acted like a hero. The supporting characters where also very nice I think. waka and lulu and their growing relationship in spite of everything happening around them. so many anti and pro religious tones throughout the game gave it a lot of depth I think. you get really hit and miss with these look at 13. I really hope everyone can forget 10-2 that deserves a special place in terrible game making.
I guess its just the hipster thing to do to just hate all the new games. I though DA2 was fantastic but it was a far different game then DA:O and that gave all the fans a raw deal. KOTOR is the star wars games of star wars games. ME is so epic in a lot of ways I don't understand why people don't like it more and complain about it. The villains are scary and the way that they approach the whole tech difference with space is really well executed.
what I don't like about all the older games is the lack of a coherent story line. They just dive into the next thing and expect the player to go along with it. Much more like a movie and less its own media like what new games have with persistent codex's and stuff. a lot of it probably comes from older studios not having the time or money to invest in things like that.
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I wholeheartedly agree.
Storylines are terrible these days, developers need to hire professional writers to do their stories.
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On January 30 2012 10:15 sermokala wrote:I think that the people that don't like ffX didn't play though to the end. Tidus was indeed a very werid charicter at the begining but by the end everything made sense. + Show Spoiler [ Spoilers] + Him basically being the creation of some dream thing of a kid. After he learned that his father was sin now as well he got a lot better I think as well and really acted like a hero. The supporting characters where also very nice I think. waka and lulu and their growing relationship in spite of everything happening around them. so many anti and pro religious tones throughout the game gave it a lot of depth I think. you get really hit and miss with these look at 13. I really hope everyone can forget 10-2 that deserves a special place in terrible game making. I guess its just the hipster thing to do to just hate all the new games. I though DA2 was fantastic but it was a far different game then DA:O and that gave all the fans a raw deal. KOTOR is the star wars games of star wars games. ME is so epic in a lot of ways I don't understand why people don't like it more and complain about it. The villains are scary and the way that they approach the whole tech difference with space is really well executed. what I don't like about all the older games is the lack of a coherent story line. They just dive into the next thing and expect the player to go along with it. Much more like a movie and less its own media like what new games have with persistent codex's and stuff. a lot of it probably comes from older studios not having the time or money to invest in things like that.
ok this post made me angry so here we go
i played through ffx all the way to the end so dont even tell me that you have to play the entire game to like it
the battle system was well done (although REALLY dumbed down for idiots to be able to not die) so ill give it that
the sphere grid was just stupid it was a really well disguised straight line that offered you next to nothing in the way of choices and made you look at a stupid ability screen WAY MORE than you really had to
the story was just a whiny kid even moreso than the other final fantasy games and thats saying something
the music was forgettable for the most part
there was no exploration you just ran up for basically the entire game
i could keep going but ill just say that when i finally finished that game i was just plain ANGRY that i wasted my time with it
and look at this guy using that fantastic buzzword "hipster" that kids love to use these days
just because someone doesnt like new stuff (which in fact is trash) doesnt make them a hipster buddy
i played mass effect for like 2 hours and couldnt take the ridiculous amount of dialogue that the game wanted to shove down your through and expect you to enjoy, and thats the same of every bioware rpg
old rpgs were good because they didnt take themselves ridiculously seriously and add in all this nonsense that is suppose to "enhance the story and the users experience" when instead all it does is WASTE MY TIME
old rpgs had characters say what was needed to be said to progress through the story and develop the characters and that was it
there wasnt extra nonsense that had you sit there thinking to yourself why on earth am i actually playing this
honestly theres no hope for you if you seriously think old rpgs didnt have a cohesive storyline
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On January 30 2012 10:27 atmuh wrote:
the music was forgettable for the most part
whaaaat. I generally agree with your statements (they didn't bother me as much as they seemed to bother you; i still loved FFX), but this is just silly. The "To Zanarkand" melody is probably one of the best musical motifs in the entire series, and I think that the ending sequence's music is absolutely outstanding. And I thought FFX had a great atmosphere and storyline. Yeah, Tidus was annoying and whiny, but I don't generally like when people dismiss an entire storyline because the protagonist has flaws.
I also really liked FFXI, though that discussion doesn't really belong here. FFX-2 was mediocre. I couldn't get into FF12 at all; I played it for a while but never got attached to the characters or story and got bored of the dull gameplay. FF6-9 are all absolute gold. FF8 had questionable gameplay but still had a fantastic universe and storyline which I consider the most important part of the games.
Also, OP, if you haven't played Final Fantasy Tactics, add it to the list. That is a simply fantastic game. edit: ah i see you already had it. hope you have fun with it!
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No Eternal eyes? This game was so much fun. With all the puppets evos, I must have played this game 10 times all the way with different teams for fun. The battling in the game changed so much based on your team. One of the best ps1 games I've played.
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tales of phantasia FUCK YAh
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FF7 is overrated. Protags were boring, antags were boring, graphics were bleh, music was bleh, storyline was shit -- though to be fair, most FF storylines are shit. Squeenix can't actually write any coherent stories. I've spent an obscene amount of time trying to convince myself to like FF7 more, but I just can't manage it.
FF8 is incoherent story-wise and somewhat incoherent character-wise, but all the characters are legitimately interesting when you sit down and look at them in the context of the environment they were raised in. They're basically all sociopathic/psychopathic kids. They left a lot of threads dangling though at the end and could've done more. So many interesting themes that were dropped halfway through. Junction system is lol once you learn how to abuse it.
I can't remember much about FF9 other than it was actually fun.
As for FFX, I am convinced it actually has the best-constructed FF story. You may think it's boring, but it's the one that doesn't give you as big a headache when you're trying to wrap your head around it after you've finished playing it. Whether or not you think the battle system is shit -- I liked it, but tbh, I've spent so long playing Pokemon that I didn't have any trouble with it -- the way the story's brought together is ... not great, but pretty damn good by Squeenix standards. It's a little more exploratory than the other games in the series, and I liked the thematic groundwork they laid out. Characters are pretty boring though but still probably the most consistently written characters in all the FF series up until then.
FF8's my favorite; it's also probably the one with the most failed potential out of all of them.
Best games on the PS1 are the Spyro games anyways. Gogogo, platformers.
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I generally dislike FF games, but 6 was pretty good and I don't see it on your list.
And I know you aren't asking for PS2 titles, but I have to recommend Xenosaga 1 and 3. 2 is okay, but not on the level of the other two in the series.
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if i could only ever have played one game for the playstation, it would have been FFX. It was essentially my definition of a perfect game.
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No Xenogears on the Playstation? That's one of my favorite RPGs fucking ever. The Xenosaga series on the PS2 is also pretty good.
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On January 30 2012 09:56 atmuh wrote:
final fantasy X was HORRENDOUS
Worth watching if you hate FFX :
http://spoonyexperiment.com/category/game-reviews/final-fantasy-x/
It's a 4 video review of why it's terrible that's like 2 hours long lol... He also has a review of FF8 and an incomplete as of yet FFX-2 one. I don't even hate these games but you can hardly disagree that they are terrible when compared to real RPGs like those on SNES.
Other good games that most people have never played :
Exit Fate (it's a suikoden-like fan made game --- only RPG Maker game I've ever LOVED and played it 3 times, so many hours played).
Last Scenario (made by same dude, pretty good but not as great IMO)
They are free, just google them.
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I remember Grandia was fun, but I can't actually remember the details of the story.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
I agree that recent JRPGs aren't as good as they used to be. Other types of RPGs though, is a different matter. There are many titles I've really enjoyed in recent years. The Witcher 1 & 2, Skyrim (to certain extent), DA:O, ME1 (2 is not really a RPG -_-), Bastion, Demon & Dark Soulds, Fallout 3 & NV and a few others I've forgotten. While they may not stand up to some of the classics you've named, they're still very very good and memorable in their own right. So yeah, Japan needs to up their game again. I hear XIII-2 is pretty mediocre as well. I guess Square is losing their touch. Hopefully Versus XIII will change things.
Oh and my middle finger eternally to EA & Bioware for ruining DA2.
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On January 30 2012 10:27 atmuh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 10:15 sermokala wrote:I think that the people that don't like ffX didn't play though to the end. Tidus was indeed a very werid charicter at the begining but by the end everything made sense. + Show Spoiler [ Spoilers] + Him basically being the creation of some dream thing of a kid. After he learned that his father was sin now as well he got a lot better I think as well and really acted like a hero. The supporting characters where also very nice I think. waka and lulu and their growing relationship in spite of everything happening around them. so many anti and pro religious tones throughout the game gave it a lot of depth I think. you get really hit and miss with these look at 13. I really hope everyone can forget 10-2 that deserves a special place in terrible game making. I guess its just the hipster thing to do to just hate all the new games. I though DA2 was fantastic but it was a far different game then DA:O and that gave all the fans a raw deal. KOTOR is the star wars games of star wars games. ME is so epic in a lot of ways I don't understand why people don't like it more and complain about it. The villains are scary and the way that they approach the whole tech difference with space is really well executed. what I don't like about all the older games is the lack of a coherent story line. They just dive into the next thing and expect the player to go along with it. Much more like a movie and less its own media like what new games have with persistent codex's and stuff. a lot of it probably comes from older studios not having the time or money to invest in things like that. ok this post made me angry so here we go i played through ffx all the way to the end so dont even tell me that you have to play the entire game to like it the battle system was well done (although REALLY dumbed down for idiots to be able to not die) so ill give it that the sphere grid was just stupid it was a really well disguised straight line that offered you next to nothing in the way of choices and made you look at a stupid ability screen WAY MORE than you really had to the story was just a whiny kid even moreso than the other final fantasy games and thats saying something the music was forgettable for the most part there was no exploration you just ran up for basically the entire game i could keep going but ill just say that when i finally finished that game i was just plain ANGRY that i wasted my time with it and look at this guy using that fantastic buzzword "hipster" that kids love to use these days just because someone doesnt like new stuff (which in fact is trash) doesnt make them a hipster buddy i played mass effect for like 2 hours and couldnt take the ridiculous amount of dialogue that the game wanted to shove down your through and expect you to enjoy, and thats the same of every bioware rpg old rpgs were good because they didnt take themselves ridiculously seriously and add in all this nonsense that is suppose to "enhance the story and the users experience" when instead all it does is WASTE MY TIME old rpgs had characters say what was needed to be said to progress through the story and develop the characters and that was it there wasnt extra nonsense that had you sit there thinking to yourself why on earth am i actually playing this honestly theres no hope for you if you seriously think old rpgs didnt have a cohesive storyline
A lot of the issues people had with the sphere grid system were addressed in the International version of FFX, along with added end-game content.
Honestly I'm convinced those who hate on FF7 only do so people of the many people who overrate the game way above everything else. FF7 isn't perfect, but it is certainly among the better games in the series. Is Cloud the greatest main protagonist ever created? No, but he is far more bearable than Tidus, Vaan, Lightning and Squall.
FF7 has maybe the most customizable battle system in the entire series (up there with FFX-2), and it is fairly balanced (unlike FF5, FF8, FF9, aeons in FF10). The game has far better pacing than most in the series and, when you get there, the Gold Rush has easily the best selection of mini-games in any JRPG that I've ever played.
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United States33146 Posts
the amount of hate in this thread makes me smile
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who remembers when you actually struggled with some levels on video games? now i beat most games in a day or 2....with work :\
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On January 30 2012 11:16 Waxangel wrote:
the amount of hate in this thread makes me smile
hating stuff is what i do best
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On January 30 2012 10:27 atmuh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 10:15 sermokala wrote:I think that the people that don't like ffX didn't play though to the end. Tidus was indeed a very werid charicter at the begining but by the end everything made sense. + Show Spoiler [ Spoilers] + Him basically being the creation of some dream thing of a kid. After he learned that his father was sin now as well he got a lot better I think as well and really acted like a hero. The supporting characters where also very nice I think. waka and lulu and their growing relationship in spite of everything happening around them. so many anti and pro religious tones throughout the game gave it a lot of depth I think. you get really hit and miss with these look at 13. I really hope everyone can forget 10-2 that deserves a special place in terrible game making. I guess its just the hipster thing to do to just hate all the new games. I though DA2 was fantastic but it was a far different game then DA:O and that gave all the fans a raw deal. KOTOR is the star wars games of star wars games. ME is so epic in a lot of ways I don't understand why people don't like it more and complain about it. The villains are scary and the way that they approach the whole tech difference with space is really well executed. what I don't like about all the older games is the lack of a coherent story line. They just dive into the next thing and expect the player to go along with it. Much more like a movie and less its own media like what new games have with persistent codex's and stuff. a lot of it probably comes from older studios not having the time or money to invest in things like that. ok this post made me angry so here we go i played through ffx all the way to the end so dont even tell me that you have to play the entire game to like it the battle system was well done (although REALLY dumbed down for idiots to be able to not die) so ill give it that the sphere grid was just stupid it was a really well disguised straight line that offered you next to nothing in the way of choices and made you look at a stupid ability screen WAY MORE than you really had to the story was just a whiny kid even moreso than the other final fantasy games and thats saying something the music was forgettable for the most part there was no exploration you just ran up for basically the entire game i could keep going but ill just say that when i finally finished that game i was just plain ANGRY that i wasted my time with it and look at this guy using that fantastic buzzword "hipster" that kids love to use these days just because someone doesnt like new stuff (which in fact is trash) doesnt make them a hipster buddy i played mass effect for like 2 hours and couldnt take the ridiculous amount of dialogue that the game wanted to shove down your through and expect you to enjoy, and thats the same of every bioware rpg old rpgs were good because they didnt take themselves ridiculously seriously and add in all this nonsense that is suppose to "enhance the story and the users experience" when instead all it does is WASTE MY TIME old rpgs had characters say what was needed to be said to progress through the story and develop the characters and that was it there wasnt extra nonsense that had you sit there thinking to yourself why on earth am i actually playing this honestly theres no hope for you if you seriously think old rpgs didnt have a cohesive storyline
The grid system was a great leveling up technique. Also there where some orbs that changed it up a bit. It was a stright line for most of the way but I think it was a lot better mechanic then other FF's have done.
there was a lot of exploration in FFX you obviously just didn't even try to find any of it. The game had a lot of depth to it and you obviously just wanted to play a COD RPG (probably coming up soon) from what you're saying.
lets break this one down. a Role Playing Game. whats the strongest part of the game? the story line. You don't like having more story line in a game. The reason why I call you a hipster is because this is everything that hipsters do. How much longer will it take for people to love sc2 and its story line. It happens with every single series the older games where better regardless of how old they where or how people didn't like them then.
People like to romantizise the past and its probably a lot worse with gamers and the childhood connection to them. It being the first games that they've played played and then they expect that all games should be like it forward. there is a lot more money in games and they can do so much more with them. can you explain whats going on in in FF7 in less then 3 pages? can you honestly tell me that tidus is worse then cloud?
It baffles me that you don't like story and don't want more of it and it to make sense. It baffles me that people think games where better when you could count the number of pixels each character was made with and they didn't talk. Just go back to playing FPS's thats obviously your speed of things.
I'm not trying to spread hate I'm for friendship, friendship everywhere.
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On January 30 2012 10:48 babylon wrote:
FF7 is overrated. Protags were boring, antags were boring, graphics were bleh, music was bleh, storyline was shit -- though to be fair, most FF storylines are shit. Squeenix can't actually write any coherent stories. I've spent an obscene amount of time trying to convince myself to like FF7 more, but I just can't manage it.
FF8 is incoherent story-wise and somewhat incoherent character-wise, but all the characters are legitimately interesting when you sit down and look at them in the context of the environment they were raised in. They're basically all sociopathic/psychopathic kids. They left a lot of threads dangling though at the end and could've done more. So many interesting themes that were dropped halfway through. Junction system is lol once you learn how to abuse it.
I can't remember much about FF9 other than it was actually fun.
As for FFX, I am convinced it actually has the best-constructed FF story. You may think it's boring, but it's the one that doesn't give you as big a headache when you're trying to wrap your head around it after you've finished playing it. Whether or not you think the battle system is shit -- I liked it, but tbh, I've spent so long playing Pokemon that I didn't have any trouble with it -- the way the story's brought together is ... not great, but pretty damn good by Squeenix standards. It's a little more exploratory than the other games in the series, and I liked the thematic groundwork they laid out. Characters are pretty boring though but still probably the most consistently written characters in all the FF series up until then.
FF8's my favorite; it's also probably the one with the most failed potential out of all of them.
Best games on the PS1 are the Spyro games anyways. Gogogo, platformers.
FF7 , made by squareSOFT. Amazing protags and antags that led to many spin offs and a movie. The amazing storyline helped. For those who shit on FF7 i can't help but think you are either a) Of a much younger era then me (I was born in 1985)
OR B) You aren't smart enough to UNDERSTAND the story. That's different then a story being shit. The fact that you praise even a small amount of FF8 and shit on FF7, proves as such. You then go on to say how FFX is the best of them all??? Is that a troll? FF8/X are two of, if not THE worst of the final fantasies. It was trying so hard to BE final fantasy 7, Squall-Cloud ripoff, and Seifer(oth)?????Cmon son, at least be original
PS:for the time the FF7 graphics were revolutionary, if you're to young to remember it thats not my fault.
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On January 30 2012 10:27 atmuh wrote:
just because someone doesnt like new stuff (which in fact is trash) doesnt make them a hipster buddy
i played mass effect for like 2 hours and couldnt take the ridiculous amount of dialogue that the game wanted to shove down your through and expect you to enjoy, and thats the same of every bioware rpg
old rpgs were good because they didnt take themselves ridiculously seriously
Huh Bioware is pretty oldschool brah, it's just a genre, RPGs are whatever their creators want them to be...
I like stories, I like books, I like Bioware! Simple.
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On January 30 2012 11:30 Arkless wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 10:48 babylon wrote:
FF7 is overrated. Protags were boring, antags were boring, graphics were bleh, music was bleh, storyline was shit -- though to be fair, most FF storylines are shit. Squeenix can't actually write any coherent stories. I've spent an obscene amount of time trying to convince myself to like FF7 more, but I just can't manage it.
FF8 is incoherent story-wise and somewhat incoherent character-wise, but all the characters are legitimately interesting when you sit down and look at them in the context of the environment they were raised in. They're basically all sociopathic/psychopathic kids. They left a lot of threads dangling though at the end and could've done more. So many interesting themes that were dropped halfway through. Junction system is lol once you learn how to abuse it.
I can't remember much about FF9 other than it was actually fun.
As for FFX, I am convinced it actually has the best-constructed FF story. You may think it's boring, but it's the one that doesn't give you as big a headache when you're trying to wrap your head around it after you've finished playing it. Whether or not you think the battle system is shit -- I liked it, but tbh, I've spent so long playing Pokemon that I didn't have any trouble with it -- the way the story's brought together is ... not great, but pretty damn good by Squeenix standards. It's a little more exploratory than the other games in the series, and I liked the thematic groundwork they laid out. Characters are pretty boring though but still probably the most consistently written characters in all the FF series up until then.
FF8's my favorite; it's also probably the one with the most failed potential out of all of them.
Best games on the PS1 are the Spyro games anyways. Gogogo, platformers. FF7 , made by squareSOFT. Amazing protags and antags that led to many spin offs and a movie. The amazing storyline helped. For those who shit on FF7 i can't help but think you are either a) Of a much younger era then me (I was born in 1985) OR B) You aren't smart enough to UNDERSTAND the story. That's different then a story being shit. The fact that you praise even a small amount of FF8 and shit on FF7, proves as such. You then go on to say how FFX is the best of them all??? Is that a troll? FF8 was one of, if not THE worst of the final fantasies. And for the time the FF7 graphics were revolutionary, if you're to young to remember it thats not my fault.
FF7 is alright but FF4,5 and 6 are much better IMO. FF9 is better too.
FF7 is emo and convoluted to the point that it gets annoying. It's not a confusing plot (and honestly, everyone understands it; it's not complicated), it's just a long one.
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On January 30 2012 11:30 Arkless wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 10:48 babylon wrote:
FF7 is overrated. Protags were boring, antags were boring, graphics were bleh, music was bleh, storyline was shit -- though to be fair, most FF storylines are shit. Squeenix can't actually write any coherent stories. I've spent an obscene amount of time trying to convince myself to like FF7 more, but I just can't manage it.
FF8 is incoherent story-wise and somewhat incoherent character-wise, but all the characters are legitimately interesting when you sit down and look at them in the context of the environment they were raised in. They're basically all sociopathic/psychopathic kids. They left a lot of threads dangling though at the end and could've done more. So many interesting themes that were dropped halfway through. Junction system is lol once you learn how to abuse it.
I can't remember much about FF9 other than it was actually fun.
As for FFX, I am convinced it actually has the best-constructed FF story. You may think it's boring, but it's the one that doesn't give you as big a headache when you're trying to wrap your head around it after you've finished playing it. Whether or not you think the battle system is shit -- I liked it, but tbh, I've spent so long playing Pokemon that I didn't have any trouble with it -- the way the story's brought together is ... not great, but pretty damn good by Squeenix standards. It's a little more exploratory than the other games in the series, and I liked the thematic groundwork they laid out. Characters are pretty boring though but still probably the most consistently written characters in all the FF series up until then.
FF8's my favorite; it's also probably the one with the most failed potential out of all of them.
Best games on the PS1 are the Spyro games anyways. Gogogo, platformers. FF7 , made by squareSOFT. Amazing protags and antags that led to many spin offs and a movie. The amazing storyline helped. For those who shit on FF7 i can't help but think you are either a) Of a much younger era then me (I was born in 1985) OR B) You aren't smart enough to UNDERSTAND the story. That's different then a story being shit. The fact that you praise even a small amount of FF8 and shit on FF7, proves as such. You then go on to say how FFX is the best of them all??? Is that a troll? FF8 was one of, if not THE worst of the final fantasies. And for the time the FF7 graphics were revolutionary, if you're to young to remember it thats not my fault.
Please don't make FFVII lose credibility with all the emo fanservicing sequels and other milk cows. Let's just talk about the original game and forget that they actually used a popstar in DoC.
But I do agree, FFX had a fun story, but it was simplistic, and its only interest was the twist at the ending. If you want a fairytale, the Zelda series are much, much better.
FFVI was very mature, and FFVII was pretty dark too in some places (Turks are assassins, people tend to forget that), and the eco-terrorism/cyberpunk compination was pretty sweet. But FFVIII launched the new era of "hey, emo kids are heroes now!".
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On January 30 2012 11:36 Kukaracha wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 11:30 Arkless wrote:On January 30 2012 10:48 babylon wrote:
FF7 is overrated. Protags were boring, antags were boring, graphics were bleh, music was bleh, storyline was shit -- though to be fair, most FF storylines are shit. Squeenix can't actually write any coherent stories. I've spent an obscene amount of time trying to convince myself to like FF7 more, but I just can't manage it.
FF8 is incoherent story-wise and somewhat incoherent character-wise, but all the characters are legitimately interesting when you sit down and look at them in the context of the environment they were raised in. They're basically all sociopathic/psychopathic kids. They left a lot of threads dangling though at the end and could've done more. So many interesting themes that were dropped halfway through. Junction system is lol once you learn how to abuse it.
I can't remember much about FF9 other than it was actually fun.
As for FFX, I am convinced it actually has the best-constructed FF story. You may think it's boring, but it's the one that doesn't give you as big a headache when you're trying to wrap your head around it after you've finished playing it. Whether or not you think the battle system is shit -- I liked it, but tbh, I've spent so long playing Pokemon that I didn't have any trouble with it -- the way the story's brought together is ... not great, but pretty damn good by Squeenix standards. It's a little more exploratory than the other games in the series, and I liked the thematic groundwork they laid out. Characters are pretty boring though but still probably the most consistently written characters in all the FF series up until then.
FF8's my favorite; it's also probably the one with the most failed potential out of all of them.
Best games on the PS1 are the Spyro games anyways. Gogogo, platformers. FF7 , made by squareSOFT. Amazing protags and antags that led to many spin offs and a movie. The amazing storyline helped. For those who shit on FF7 i can't help but think you are either a) Of a much younger era then me (I was born in 1985) OR B) You aren't smart enough to UNDERSTAND the story. That's different then a story being shit. The fact that you praise even a small amount of FF8 and shit on FF7, proves as such. You then go on to say how FFX is the best of them all??? Is that a troll? FF8 was one of, if not THE worst of the final fantasies. And for the time the FF7 graphics were revolutionary, if you're to young to remember it thats not my fault. Please don't make FFVII lose credibility with all the emo fanservicing sequels and other milk cows. Let's just talk about the original game and forget that they actually used a popstar in DoC.
But I do agree, FFX had a fun story, but it was simplistic, and its only interest was the twist at the ending. If you want a fairytale, the Zelda series are much, much better. FFVI was very mature, and FFVII was pretty dark too in some places (Turks are assassins, people tend to forget that), and the eco-terrorism/cyberpunk compination was pretty sweet. But FFVIII launched the new era of "hey, emo kids are heroes now!".
Now for those of you who were wondering from the previous pages what a hipster comment actually sounds like, here it is. Oh noes a professional in my video game?
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On January 30 2012 11:28 sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 10:27 atmuh wrote:On January 30 2012 10:15 sermokala wrote:I think that the people that don't like ffX didn't play though to the end. Tidus was indeed a very werid charicter at the begining but by the end everything made sense. + Show Spoiler [ Spoilers] + Him basically being the creation of some dream thing of a kid. After he learned that his father was sin now as well he got a lot better I think as well and really acted like a hero. The supporting characters where also very nice I think. waka and lulu and their growing relationship in spite of everything happening around them. so many anti and pro religious tones throughout the game gave it a lot of depth I think. you get really hit and miss with these look at 13. I really hope everyone can forget 10-2 that deserves a special place in terrible game making. I guess its just the hipster thing to do to just hate all the new games. I though DA2 was fantastic but it was a far different game then DA:O and that gave all the fans a raw deal. KOTOR is the star wars games of star wars games. ME is so epic in a lot of ways I don't understand why people don't like it more and complain about it. The villains are scary and the way that they approach the whole tech difference with space is really well executed. what I don't like about all the older games is the lack of a coherent story line. They just dive into the next thing and expect the player to go along with it. Much more like a movie and less its own media like what new games have with persistent codex's and stuff. a lot of it probably comes from older studios not having the time or money to invest in things like that. ok this post made me angry so here we go i played through ffx all the way to the end so dont even tell me that you have to play the entire game to like it the battle system was well done (although REALLY dumbed down for idiots to be able to not die) so ill give it that the sphere grid was just stupid it was a really well disguised straight line that offered you next to nothing in the way of choices and made you look at a stupid ability screen WAY MORE than you really had to the story was just a whiny kid even moreso than the other final fantasy games and thats saying something the music was forgettable for the most part there was no exploration you just ran up for basically the entire game i could keep going but ill just say that when i finally finished that game i was just plain ANGRY that i wasted my time with it and look at this guy using that fantastic buzzword "hipster" that kids love to use these days just because someone doesnt like new stuff (which in fact is trash) doesnt make them a hipster buddy i played mass effect for like 2 hours and couldnt take the ridiculous amount of dialogue that the game wanted to shove down your through and expect you to enjoy, and thats the same of every bioware rpg old rpgs were good because they didnt take themselves ridiculously seriously and add in all this nonsense that is suppose to "enhance the story and the users experience" when instead all it does is WASTE MY TIME old rpgs had characters say what was needed to be said to progress through the story and develop the characters and that was it there wasnt extra nonsense that had you sit there thinking to yourself why on earth am i actually playing this honestly theres no hope for you if you seriously think old rpgs didnt have a cohesive storyline The grid system was a great leveling up technique. Also there where some orbs that changed it up a bit. It was a stright line for most of the way but I think it was a lot better mechanic then other FF's have done. there was a lot of exploration in FFX you obviously just didn't even try to find any of it. The game had a lot of depth to it and you obviously just wanted to play a COD RPG (probably coming up soon) from what you're saying. lets break this one down. a Role Playing Game. whats the strongest part of the game? the story line. You don't like having more story line in a game. The reason why I call you a hipster is because this is everything that hipsters do. How much longer will it take for people to love sc2 and its story line. It happens with every single series the older games where better regardless of how old they where or how people didn't like them then. People like to romantizise the past and its probably a lot worse with gamers and the childhood connection to them. It being the first games that they've played played and then they expect that all games should be like it forward. there is a lot more money in games and they can do so much more with them. can you explain whats going on in in FF7 in less then 3 pages? can you honestly tell me that tidus is worse then cloud? It baffles me that you don't like story and don't want more of it and it to make sense. It baffles me that people think games where better when you could count the number of pixels each character was made with and they didn't talk. Just go back to playing FPS's thats obviously your speed of things. I'm not trying to spread hate I'm for friendship, friendship everywhere.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/O3q4f.png)
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On January 30 2012 11:41 atmuh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 11:28 sermokala wrote:On January 30 2012 10:27 atmuh wrote:On January 30 2012 10:15 sermokala wrote:I think that the people that don't like ffX didn't play though to the end. Tidus was indeed a very werid charicter at the begining but by the end everything made sense. + Show Spoiler [ Spoilers] + Him basically being the creation of some dream thing of a kid. After he learned that his father was sin now as well he got a lot better I think as well and really acted like a hero. The supporting characters where also very nice I think. waka and lulu and their growing relationship in spite of everything happening around them. so many anti and pro religious tones throughout the game gave it a lot of depth I think. you get really hit and miss with these look at 13. I really hope everyone can forget 10-2 that deserves a special place in terrible game making. I guess its just the hipster thing to do to just hate all the new games. I though DA2 was fantastic but it was a far different game then DA:O and that gave all the fans a raw deal. KOTOR is the star wars games of star wars games. ME is so epic in a lot of ways I don't understand why people don't like it more and complain about it. The villains are scary and the way that they approach the whole tech difference with space is really well executed. what I don't like about all the older games is the lack of a coherent story line. They just dive into the next thing and expect the player to go along with it. Much more like a movie and less its own media like what new games have with persistent codex's and stuff. a lot of it probably comes from older studios not having the time or money to invest in things like that. ok this post made me angry so here we go i played through ffx all the way to the end so dont even tell me that you have to play the entire game to like it the battle system was well done (although REALLY dumbed down for idiots to be able to not die) so ill give it that the sphere grid was just stupid it was a really well disguised straight line that offered you next to nothing in the way of choices and made you look at a stupid ability screen WAY MORE than you really had to the story was just a whiny kid even moreso than the other final fantasy games and thats saying something the music was forgettable for the most part there was no exploration you just ran up for basically the entire game i could keep going but ill just say that when i finally finished that game i was just plain ANGRY that i wasted my time with it and look at this guy using that fantastic buzzword "hipster" that kids love to use these days just because someone doesnt like new stuff (which in fact is trash) doesnt make them a hipster buddy i played mass effect for like 2 hours and couldnt take the ridiculous amount of dialogue that the game wanted to shove down your through and expect you to enjoy, and thats the same of every bioware rpg old rpgs were good because they didnt take themselves ridiculously seriously and add in all this nonsense that is suppose to "enhance the story and the users experience" when instead all it does is WASTE MY TIME old rpgs had characters say what was needed to be said to progress through the story and develop the characters and that was it there wasnt extra nonsense that had you sit there thinking to yourself why on earth am i actually playing this honestly theres no hope for you if you seriously think old rpgs didnt have a cohesive storyline The grid system was a great leveling up technique. Also there where some orbs that changed it up a bit. It was a stright line for most of the way but I think it was a lot better mechanic then other FF's have done. there was a lot of exploration in FFX you obviously just didn't even try to find any of it. The game had a lot of depth to it and you obviously just wanted to play a COD RPG (probably coming up soon) from what you're saying. lets break this one down. a Role Playing Game. whats the strongest part of the game? the story line. You don't like having more story line in a game. The reason why I call you a hipster is because this is everything that hipsters do. How much longer will it take for people to love sc2 and its story line. It happens with every single series the older games where better regardless of how old they where or how people didn't like them then. People like to romantizise the past and its probably a lot worse with gamers and the childhood connection to them. It being the first games that they've played played and then they expect that all games should be like it forward. there is a lot more money in games and they can do so much more with them. can you explain whats going on in in FF7 in less then 3 pages? can you honestly tell me that tidus is worse then cloud? It baffles me that you don't like story and don't want more of it and it to make sense. It baffles me that people think games where better when you could count the number of pixels each character was made with and they didn't talk. Just go back to playing FPS's thats obviously your speed of things. I'm not trying to spread hate I'm for friendship, friendship everywhere.
Once you got the level 4 unlocks that all breaks though. And you can get them pretty early so there really isn't a need for it to be straightened out. at the end area they have an oddly misplaced orb where you can teleport to another characters spot. I did a lot of power leveling at the end and it was really fun to break it.
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Ah, PS1/SNES were the greatest. Just bought FFI/FFII/FFV/FFVI for my PS3 since I never got around to those. Thanks to this list, I'll know what other classics to buy!
To be honest, I don't know if new RPGs are bad or if I just don't want to spend time playing them. I should try out some new RPGs too.
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On January 30 2012 11:30 Arkless wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 10:48 babylon wrote:
FF7 is overrated. Protags were boring, antags were boring, graphics were bleh, music was bleh, storyline was shit -- though to be fair, most FF storylines are shit. Squeenix can't actually write any coherent stories. I've spent an obscene amount of time trying to convince myself to like FF7 more, but I just can't manage it.
FF8 is incoherent story-wise and somewhat incoherent character-wise, but all the characters are legitimately interesting when you sit down and look at them in the context of the environment they were raised in. They're basically all sociopathic/psychopathic kids. They left a lot of threads dangling though at the end and could've done more. So many interesting themes that were dropped halfway through. Junction system is lol once you learn how to abuse it.
I can't remember much about FF9 other than it was actually fun.
As for FFX, I am convinced it actually has the best-constructed FF story. You may think it's boring, but it's the one that doesn't give you as big a headache when you're trying to wrap your head around it after you've finished playing it. Whether or not you think the battle system is shit -- I liked it, but tbh, I've spent so long playing Pokemon that I didn't have any trouble with it -- the way the story's brought together is ... not great, but pretty damn good by Squeenix standards. It's a little more exploratory than the other games in the series, and I liked the thematic groundwork they laid out. Characters are pretty boring though but still probably the most consistently written characters in all the FF series up until then.
FF8's my favorite; it's also probably the one with the most failed potential out of all of them.
Best games on the PS1 are the Spyro games anyways. Gogogo, platformers. FF7 , made by squareSOFT. Amazing protags and antags that led to many spin offs and a movie. The amazing storyline helped. For those who shit on FF7 i can't help but think you are either a) Of a much younger era then me (I was born in 1985) OR B) You aren't smart enough to UNDERSTAND the story. That's different then a story being shit. The fact that you praise even a small amount of FF8 and shit on FF7, proves as such. You then go on to say how FFX is the best of them all??? Is that a troll? FF8/X are two of, if not THE worst of the final fantasies. It was trying so hard to BE final fantasy 7, Squall-Cloud ripoff, and Seifer(oth)?????Cmon son, at least be original PS:for the time the FF7 graphics were revolutionary, if you're to young to remember it thats not my fault.
> You don't like what I like!
> Therefore, you're not smart enough to understand the story!
Logic'd, clearly.
1.) Quality does not --> sequels/spinoffs for video games. Popularity --> sequels/spinoffs. Sometimes quality and popularity go together; more often than not, they don't. Pokemon has had so many sequels I've lost count of what generation we're on these days.
2.) Lern 2 read. I didn't say FFX was the best; I said it was the best-constructed of them all. The plot was overly simplistic, but that simplicity allowed them to present it better without getting the entire game lost in its own plot, which has pretty much happened with almost every other FF game out there. Complex plots that are too complicated for their own good do not good games make; just look at ... most RPGs and compare them with, say, Shadow of the Colossus or Ico, which are pretty much works of art insofar as video games go.
3.) I don't even know how to address this one, but Seifer is in no way like Sephiroth. They're not even of the same character type, and they have completely different motivations. Unless you're suggesting that Sephiroth is primarily a gloryhound of near-Gilgamesh-proportions and perfectly sane and aware of what he's doing.
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As for newer games, I find the Tales of~ series good (they hardly change, though). Tales of Graces was good. I really liked FFXIII, it had a lack of towns, but a nice story and the best battle system I've seen in a long time. Also, the ending was a bit disappointing. I'm playing through FFXIII-2 at the moment.
One of my most favorite JRPG games ever is Persona 4 (and 3). If you haven't checked those out, I definitely recommend it.
But then again, aside from a few top titles (Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger), I see more appeal in newer games, so my advice might not be for you.
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On January 30 2012 11:55 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 11:30 Arkless wrote:On January 30 2012 10:48 babylon wrote:
FF7 is overrated. Protags were boring, antags were boring, graphics were bleh, music was bleh, storyline was shit -- though to be fair, most FF storylines are shit. Squeenix can't actually write any coherent stories. I've spent an obscene amount of time trying to convince myself to like FF7 more, but I just can't manage it.
FF8 is incoherent story-wise and somewhat incoherent character-wise, but all the characters are legitimately interesting when you sit down and look at them in the context of the environment they were raised in. They're basically all sociopathic/psychopathic kids. They left a lot of threads dangling though at the end and could've done more. So many interesting themes that were dropped halfway through. Junction system is lol once you learn how to abuse it.
I can't remember much about FF9 other than it was actually fun.
As for FFX, I am convinced it actually has the best-constructed FF story. You may think it's boring, but it's the one that doesn't give you as big a headache when you're trying to wrap your head around it after you've finished playing it. Whether or not you think the battle system is shit -- I liked it, but tbh, I've spent so long playing Pokemon that I didn't have any trouble with it -- the way the story's brought together is ... not great, but pretty damn good by Squeenix standards. It's a little more exploratory than the other games in the series, and I liked the thematic groundwork they laid out. Characters are pretty boring though but still probably the most consistently written characters in all the FF series up until then.
FF8's my favorite; it's also probably the one with the most failed potential out of all of them.
Best games on the PS1 are the Spyro games anyways. Gogogo, platformers. FF7 , made by squareSOFT. Amazing protags and antags that led to many spin offs and a movie. The amazing storyline helped. For those who shit on FF7 i can't help but think you are either a) Of a much younger era then me (I was born in 1985) OR B) You aren't smart enough to UNDERSTAND the story. That's different then a story being shit. The fact that you praise even a small amount of FF8 and shit on FF7, proves as such. You then go on to say how FFX is the best of them all??? Is that a troll? FF8/X are two of, if not THE worst of the final fantasies. It was trying so hard to BE final fantasy 7, Squall-Cloud ripoff, and Seifer(oth)?????Cmon son, at least be original PS:for the time the FF7 graphics were revolutionary, if you're to young to remember it thats not my fault. > You don't like what I like! > Therefore, you're not smart enough to understand the story! Logic'd, clearly. 1.) Quality does not --> sequels/spinoffs for video games. Popularity --> sequels/spinoffs. Sometimes quality and popularity go together; more often than not, they don't. Pokemon has had so many sequels I've lost count of what generation we're on these days. 2.) Lern 2 read. I didn't say FFX was the best; I said it was the best- constructed of them all. The plot was overly simplistic, but that simplicity allowed them to present it better without getting the entire game lost in its own plot, which has pretty much happened with almost every other FF game out there. Complex plots that are too complicated for their own good do not good games make; just look at ... most RPGs and compare them with, say, Shadow of the Colossus or Ico, which are pretty much works of art insofar as video games go. 3.) I don't even know how to address this one, but Seifer is in no way like Sephiroth. They're not even of the same character type, and they have completely different motivations. Unless you're suggesting that Sephiroth is primarily a gloryhound of near-Gilgamesh-proportions and perfectly sane and aware of what he's doing.
1) Disagree, if it wasn't a quality game to begin with. If it had no fan base, and was "total shit" as you say. They would never have pumped more into it to make sequels etc. The majority of the population is right, not you.
2) Best constructed story implies best of the ff's. Because rpg's are about the story 1st, game play second. I "lern" how to read in high school, where they apparently didn't teach you how to spell.
3) Seifer's mannerisms, clothing, look. 100% sephiroth ripoff with short ,blonde hair. Get over it.
Further proof
I have spent many years as a sketch artist for the NYPD
Seifer-oth
+ Show Spoiler +
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On January 30 2012 09:56 atmuh wrote:
final fantasy X was HORRENDOUS
I hate you. FFX was a fantastic FF. Just because it's a little different from the other FF's doesn't mean it suck.
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On January 30 2012 12:01 Tasaio wrote:
As for newer games, I find the Tales of~ series good (they hardly change, though). Tales of Graces was good. I really liked FFXIII, it had a lack of towns, but a nice story and the best battle system I've seen in a long time. Also, the ending was a bit disappointing. I'm playing through FFXIII-2 at the moment.
One of my most favorite JRPG games ever is Persona 4 (and 3). If you haven't checked those out, I definitely recommend it.
But then again, aside from a few top titles (Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger), I see more appeal in newer games, so my advice might not be for you.
I forgot about P3/4! Interesting (incomprehensible) stories, but the characters are pretty well-written, though the dungeon-grinding is ... oh god, so painful. Makes going through a Zubat-infested cave in Pokemon look like nothing. I joked to my friend the other day if Atlus and Squeenix sat down and made a game together, it would be the most bizarre RPG ever made from a plot POV, though the characters would be much less eye-roll-inducing due to Atlus's propensity for actually writing decent characters.
OP, have you played Okami before (PS2/Wii)? It's good eye-candy if nothing else (graphics are amazing), though admittedly a little easy to play through. Shadow of the Colossus (I mentioned it briefly earlier) is also phenomenal, though might make you want to throw your controller at the TV. If you move onto PS2 games any time soon, you should check it out.
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Get with the super mario rpg
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1.) Quality does not --> sequels/spinoffs for video games. Popularity --> sequels/spinoffs. Sometimes quality and popularity go together; more often than not, they don't. Pokemon has had so many sequels I've lost count of what generation we're on these days.
You start off by making the point that 'just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's bad' then essentially do the same thing yourself in the above quote... You're just another opinion on the Internet, buddy. Either stop speaking with an air of authority, or don't be surprised when anyone else does the same...
Nobody is right or wrong here... Like whatever the fuck you want to like people...
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On January 30 2012 12:09 canucks12 wrote:
Get with the super mario rpg
great game
played through it a few times
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Holy fuck 3 pages and no one has suggested:
Shining Force
Shining Force II
Phantasy Star 2
Phantasy Star 4
Grandia II
Skies of Arcadia
Play these. All are in the same league as Chrono Trigger in terms of awesome.
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snes rpgs are the best..
add these to your list:
Super Mario RPG
Lagoon
(im a sucker for the ultima series)
Ultima 6: The False Prophet
Ultima 7: The Black Gate
Ultima: Runes of Virtue 2
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new games are just terrible in general, from 2006 onwards companies saw how much money the casual market could yield for them so they started to produce simple and shitty products for the brainless masses to munch on, though good games still get produced but there's just less of them now.
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The Tales of~ games are mostly awesome
Persona 2-4 are a cool change of pace from norm
SMT Digital Devil Saga I just started and they seem pretty promising, much darker than Final Fantasy and Co.
But honestly you got the right idea Chrono Trigger is the grand-daddy of RPG's, if I had one wish I wouldn't wish for money or fame I would wish to go back to when Chrono Trigger first came out and I could play it through again like it was the first time.
EDIT: Also my advice avoid BoF IV stop at III for best gaming experience, IV is just very bleh when compared to the others
HAPPY GAMING SIR!
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United States47024 Posts
On January 30 2012 11:31 Kukaracha wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 10:27 atmuh wrote:
just because someone doesnt like new stuff (which in fact is trash) doesnt make them a hipster buddy
i played mass effect for like 2 hours and couldnt take the ridiculous amount of dialogue that the game wanted to shove down your through and expect you to enjoy, and thats the same of every bioware rpg
old rpgs were good because they didnt take themselves ridiculously seriously Huh Bioware is pretty oldschool brah, it's just a genre, RPGs are whatever their creators want them to be... I like stories, I like books, I like Bioware! Simple.
Every time I play a Bioware game, it always bothers me after the first 2 hours that the characters are all recycled from Baldur's Gate 2.
Anomen = Carth = Kaiden = Alistair
Imoen = Mission = Leliana
Korgan = Canderous
Viconia = Morrigan
etc.
Sure the plot is fresh, but oh my fucking god does David Gaider not know how to write new and engaging characters.
There's also the ever-present "fake Bioware choices"--where different dialogue options that seemingly present choices result in the same actual outcome (this occurs to varying degrees in different games--it's worst in Mass Effect, where if you run through a given conversation, selecting seemingly different dialogue choices actually results in Shepard saying the exact same lines every time regardless), but that only becomes bothersome if you're actually paying attention to it, or if you play through the game multiple times.
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Just got to say dude I fucking loved tales of symphonia such a good game. Its where my name came from :D
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On January 30 2012 12:06 Arkless wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 11:55 babylon wrote:On January 30 2012 11:30 Arkless wrote:On January 30 2012 10:48 babylon wrote:
FF7 is overrated. Protags were boring, antags were boring, graphics were bleh, music was bleh, storyline was shit -- though to be fair, most FF storylines are shit. Squeenix can't actually write any coherent stories. I've spent an obscene amount of time trying to convince myself to like FF7 more, but I just can't manage it.
FF8 is incoherent story-wise and somewhat incoherent character-wise, but all the characters are legitimately interesting when you sit down and look at them in the context of the environment they were raised in. They're basically all sociopathic/psychopathic kids. They left a lot of threads dangling though at the end and could've done more. So many interesting themes that were dropped halfway through. Junction system is lol once you learn how to abuse it.
I can't remember much about FF9 other than it was actually fun.
As for FFX, I am convinced it actually has the best-constructed FF story. You may think it's boring, but it's the one that doesn't give you as big a headache when you're trying to wrap your head around it after you've finished playing it. Whether or not you think the battle system is shit -- I liked it, but tbh, I've spent so long playing Pokemon that I didn't have any trouble with it -- the way the story's brought together is ... not great, but pretty damn good by Squeenix standards. It's a little more exploratory than the other games in the series, and I liked the thematic groundwork they laid out. Characters are pretty boring though but still probably the most consistently written characters in all the FF series up until then.
FF8's my favorite; it's also probably the one with the most failed potential out of all of them.
Best games on the PS1 are the Spyro games anyways. Gogogo, platformers. FF7 , made by squareSOFT. Amazing protags and antags that led to many spin offs and a movie. The amazing storyline helped. For those who shit on FF7 i can't help but think you are either a) Of a much younger era then me (I was born in 1985) OR B) You aren't smart enough to UNDERSTAND the story. That's different then a story being shit. The fact that you praise even a small amount of FF8 and shit on FF7, proves as such. You then go on to say how FFX is the best of them all??? Is that a troll? FF8/X are two of, if not THE worst of the final fantasies. It was trying so hard to BE final fantasy 7, Squall-Cloud ripoff, and Seifer(oth)?????Cmon son, at least be original PS:for the time the FF7 graphics were revolutionary, if you're to young to remember it thats not my fault. > You don't like what I like! > Therefore, you're not smart enough to understand the story! Logic'd, clearly. 1.) Quality does not --> sequels/spinoffs for video games. Popularity --> sequels/spinoffs. Sometimes quality and popularity go together; more often than not, they don't. Pokemon has had so many sequels I've lost count of what generation we're on these days. 2.) Lern 2 read. I didn't say FFX was the best; I said it was the best- constructed of them all. The plot was overly simplistic, but that simplicity allowed them to present it better without getting the entire game lost in its own plot, which has pretty much happened with almost every other FF game out there. Complex plots that are too complicated for their own good do not good games make; just look at ... most RPGs and compare them with, say, Shadow of the Colossus or Ico, which are pretty much works of art insofar as video games go. 3.) I don't even know how to address this one, but Seifer is in no way like Sephiroth. They're not even of the same character type, and they have completely different motivations. Unless you're suggesting that Sephiroth is primarily a gloryhound of near-Gilgamesh-proportions and perfectly sane and aware of what he's doing. 1) Disagree, if it wasn't a quality game to begin with. If it had no fan base, and was "total shit" as you say. They would never have pumped more into it to make sequels etc. The majority of the population is right, not you. 2) Best constructed story implies best of the ff's. Because rpg's are about the story 1st, game play second. I "lern" how to read in high school, where they apparently didn't teach you how to spell. 3) Seifer's mannerisms, clothing, look. 100% sephiroth ripoff with short ,blonde hair. Get over it.
1.) Twilight must be a work of literature, then. What makes something popular is how well it is received. Sometimes, it's the quality that people respond to; more often than not, though, people respond to what they find familiar, enjoyable, and cliche.
2.) No, it doesn't. You just decided to twist my words to try to support your point. Nice try though.
3.) Go ahead. Press the point. Tell me why Sephiroth did what he did in-game; I want to hear your breakdown of his character. We can compare notes and see exactly how different or similar those two characters are. It'd be a good critical thinking exercise.
On January 30 2012 12:09 Brett wrote:Show nested quote +1.) Quality does not --> sequels/spinoffs for video games. Popularity --> sequels/spinoffs. Sometimes quality and popularity go together; more often than not, they don't. Pokemon has had so many sequels I've lost count of what generation we're on these days. You start off by making the point that 'just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's bad' then essentially do the same thing yourself in the above quote... You're just another opinion on the Internet, buddy. Either stop speaking with an air of authority, or don't be surprised when anyone else does the same... Nobody is right or wrong here... Like whatever the fuck you want to like people...
I started off making the point, "Just because I don't like it doesn't mean I'm too stupid to understand the story," actually. He started off with a personal attack, not an opinion about a game (which is what I started with, stating that I think FF7 is overrated). I responded, IMO, politely, given that he tried to call me an idiot.
Then I made a very general observation that popularity is what primarily determines sequels. Quality and popularity are correlated, but quality doesn't necessarily generate popularity, nor does popularity guarantee quality. Do you disagree with this point?
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Man, how about Illusion of Gaia. I loved that game, hardcore nostalgia moment inc
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On January 30 2012 12:19 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 12:06 Arkless wrote:On January 30 2012 11:55 babylon wrote:On January 30 2012 11:30 Arkless wrote:On January 30 2012 10:48 babylon wrote:
FF7 is overrated. Protags were boring, antags were boring, graphics were bleh, music was bleh, storyline was shit -- though to be fair, most FF storylines are shit. Squeenix can't actually write any coherent stories. I've spent an obscene amount of time trying to convince myself to like FF7 more, but I just can't manage it.
FF8 is incoherent story-wise and somewhat incoherent character-wise, but all the characters are legitimately interesting when you sit down and look at them in the context of the environment they were raised in. They're basically all sociopathic/psychopathic kids. They left a lot of threads dangling though at the end and could've done more. So many interesting themes that were dropped halfway through. Junction system is lol once you learn how to abuse it.
I can't remember much about FF9 other than it was actually fun.
As for FFX, I am convinced it actually has the best-constructed FF story. You may think it's boring, but it's the one that doesn't give you as big a headache when you're trying to wrap your head around it after you've finished playing it. Whether or not you think the battle system is shit -- I liked it, but tbh, I've spent so long playing Pokemon that I didn't have any trouble with it -- the way the story's brought together is ... not great, but pretty damn good by Squeenix standards. It's a little more exploratory than the other games in the series, and I liked the thematic groundwork they laid out. Characters are pretty boring though but still probably the most consistently written characters in all the FF series up until then.
FF8's my favorite; it's also probably the one with the most failed potential out of all of them.
Best games on the PS1 are the Spyro games anyways. Gogogo, platformers. FF7 , made by squareSOFT. Amazing protags and antags that led to many spin offs and a movie. The amazing storyline helped. For those who shit on FF7 i can't help but think you are either a) Of a much younger era then me (I was born in 1985) OR B) You aren't smart enough to UNDERSTAND the story. That's different then a story being shit. The fact that you praise even a small amount of FF8 and shit on FF7, proves as such. You then go on to say how FFX is the best of them all??? Is that a troll? FF8/X are two of, if not THE worst of the final fantasies. It was trying so hard to BE final fantasy 7, Squall-Cloud ripoff, and Seifer(oth)?????Cmon son, at least be original PS:for the time the FF7 graphics were revolutionary, if you're to young to remember it thats not my fault. > You don't like what I like! > Therefore, you're not smart enough to understand the story! Logic'd, clearly. 1.) Quality does not --> sequels/spinoffs for video games. Popularity --> sequels/spinoffs. Sometimes quality and popularity go together; more often than not, they don't. Pokemon has had so many sequels I've lost count of what generation we're on these days. 2.) Lern 2 read. I didn't say FFX was the best; I said it was the best- constructed of them all. The plot was overly simplistic, but that simplicity allowed them to present it better without getting the entire game lost in its own plot, which has pretty much happened with almost every other FF game out there. Complex plots that are too complicated for their own good do not good games make; just look at ... most RPGs and compare them with, say, Shadow of the Colossus or Ico, which are pretty much works of art insofar as video games go. 3.) I don't even know how to address this one, but Seifer is in no way like Sephiroth. They're not even of the same character type, and they have completely different motivations. Unless you're suggesting that Sephiroth is primarily a gloryhound of near-Gilgamesh-proportions and perfectly sane and aware of what he's doing. 1) Disagree, if it wasn't a quality game to begin with. If it had no fan base, and was "total shit" as you say. They would never have pumped more into it to make sequels etc. The majority of the population is right, not you. 2) Best constructed story implies best of the ff's. Because rpg's are about the story 1st, game play second. I "lern" how to read in high school, where they apparently didn't teach you how to spell. 3) Seifer's mannerisms, clothing, look. 100% sephiroth ripoff with short ,blonde hair. Get over it. 1.) Twilight must be a work of literature, then. What makes something popular is how well it is received. Sometimes, it's the quality that people respond to; more often than not, though, people respond to what they find familiar, enjoyable, and cliche. 2.) No, it doesn't. You just decided to twist my words to try to support your point. Nice try though. 3.) Go ahead. Press the point. Tell me why Sephiroth did what he did in-game; I want to hear your breakdown of his character. We can compare notes and see exactly how different or similar those two characters are. It'd be a good critical thinking exercise. Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 12:09 Brett wrote:1.) Quality does not --> sequels/spinoffs for video games. Popularity --> sequels/spinoffs. Sometimes quality and popularity go together; more often than not, they don't. Pokemon has had so many sequels I've lost count of what generation we're on these days. You start off by making the point that 'just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's bad' then essentially do the same thing yourself in the above quote... You're just another opinion on the Internet, buddy. Either stop speaking with an air of authority, or don't be surprised when anyone else does the same... Nobody is right or wrong here... Like whatever the fuck you want to like people... I started off making the point, "Just because I don't like it doesn't mean I'm too stupid to understand the story," actually. He started off with a personal attack, not an opinion about a game (which is what I started with, stating that I think FF7 is overrated). I responded, IMO, politely, given that he tried to call me an idiot. Then I made a very general observation that popularity is what primarily determines sequels. Quality and popularity are correlated, but quality doesn't necessarily generate popularity, nor does popularity guarantee quality. Do you disagree with this point?
Further proof
I have spent many years as a sketch artist for the NYPD
Seifer-oth
+ Show Spoiler +
1)Well, just because YOU DON'T LIKE IT. And neither do I for that matter, but yes. The twighlight series are well written books that appeal to a certain demographic, the problem here is that You're right no matter what and everyone else is wrong.
2) Yes it does, your words had to be twisted otherwise are incorrect. Once again though, You're right. Everyone else is wrong.
3) If you can't see how seifer is a complete rip off of sephiroth then i dont know what to tell you. Asking me to tell you what sephiroth did in one area of the game, is like asking to have the bible summed up in one sentence. GG/No re, sorry man. You're of the extreme minority.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=234357
Feel free to scroll through those 28 pages and argue with the other people who are of the same mindset as me. Notice where FF8 is on the list? Hmmmmmmmm, your 1 vote must count for like 2 thousand I guess right?
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10387 Posts
the twilight books are fucking terrible
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On January 30 2012 12:24 Sultan.P wrote:
Man, how about Illusion of Gaia. I loved that game, hardcore nostalgia moment inc
I thought Soul Blazer and Terranigma were stronger games, but I did love the dungeon designs of IoG (Angkor Wat!)
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United States47024 Posts
On January 30 2012 12:26 Arkless wrote:
1)Well, just because YOU DON'T LIKE IT. And neither do I for that matter, but yes. The twighlight series are well written books that appeal to a certain demographic, the problem here is that You're right no matter what and everyone else is wrong.
This is off the topic of this blog, but the Twilight books are not well written, independent of any preference for or against the subject matter. You could swap the character genders, change the setting, or replace the vampires with sexy space aliens, and the writing would still be awful.
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On January 30 2012 12:35 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 12:26 Arkless wrote:
1)Well, just because YOU DON'T LIKE IT. And neither do I for that matter, but yes. The twighlight series are well written books that appeal to a certain demographic, the problem here is that You're right no matter what and everyone else is wrong.
This is off the topic of this blog, but the Twilight books are not well written, independent of any preference for or against the subject matter. You could swap the character genders, change the setting, or replace the vampires with sexy space aliens, and the writing would still be awful.
I don't like the twighlight series.Never read them and don't plan on it. With that said, no you are wrong. If it was incohherent, had no beggining middle or end. And made 0 sense, a publishing company wouldn't have picked it up and made millions off of it. It's that simple, you can't argue with numbers.
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On January 30 2012 12:30 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 12:24 Sultan.P wrote:
Man, how about Illusion of Gaia. I loved that game, hardcore nostalgia moment inc I thought Soul Blazer and Terranigma were stronger games, but I did love the dungeon designs of IoG (Angkor Wat!)
ive already played soul blazer and illusion of gaia and i loved them both
soul blazer is one of my top 5 games ever hands down
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United States47024 Posts
On January 30 2012 12:38 Arkless wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 12:35 TheYango wrote:On January 30 2012 12:26 Arkless wrote:
1)Well, just because YOU DON'T LIKE IT. And neither do I for that matter, but yes. The twighlight series are well written books that appeal to a certain demographic, the problem here is that You're right no matter what and everyone else is wrong.
This is off the topic of this blog, but the Twilight books are not well written, independent of any preference for or against the subject matter. You could swap the character genders, change the setting, or replace the vampires with sexy space aliens, and the writing would still be awful. I don't like the twighlight series.Never read them and don't plan on it. With that said, no you are wrong. If it was incohherent, had no beggining middle or end. And made 0 sense, a publishing company wouldn't have picked it up and made millions off of it. It's that simple, you can't argue with numbers.
So if the only way to judge whether a piece of art or writing is good is by the numbers, then how have, for generations now, people like literature professors, movie/art/music critics, etc. made a living?...people whose express profession is to critically analyze and judge the quality of art/writing based on their inherent qualities and NOT simply their popularity, which anyone could look up the statistics for.
Shit that's popular is still shit. If that wasn't true, then people would never be able to make a living off of telling people what's shit and what isn't, because everyone would know based on what's popular and what isn't.
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DRAGON QUEST VIII BEST GAME EVAR!!
really though, that was my favorite ps2 rpg.
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I've actually been wondering if there are any good RPGs for the PS3. I had FFXIII but that was really bad.
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On January 30 2012 12:46 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 12:38 Arkless wrote:On January 30 2012 12:35 TheYango wrote:On January 30 2012 12:26 Arkless wrote:
1)Well, just because YOU DON'T LIKE IT. And neither do I for that matter, but yes. The twighlight series are well written books that appeal to a certain demographic, the problem here is that You're right no matter what and everyone else is wrong.
This is off the topic of this blog, but the Twilight books are not well written, independent of any preference for or against the subject matter. You could swap the character genders, change the setting, or replace the vampires with sexy space aliens, and the writing would still be awful. I don't like the twighlight series.Never read them and don't plan on it. With that said, no you are wrong. If it was incohherent, had no beggining middle or end. And made 0 sense, a publishing company wouldn't have picked it up and made millions off of it. It's that simple, you can't argue with numbers. So if the only way to judge whether a piece of art or writing is good is by the numbers, then how have, for generations now, people like literature professors, movie/art/music critics, etc. made a living?...people whose express profession is to critically analyze and judge the quality of art/writing based on their inherent qualities and NOT simply their popularity, which anyone could look up the statistics for. Shit that's popular is still shit. If that wasn't true, then people would never be able to make a living off of telling people what's shit and what isn't, because everyone would know based on what's popular and what isn't.
Ok, so regardless. All the awards it has won, all the millions of copies it's sold. Make it shit? Show me all these highly regarded people saying it's a terrible piece of writing then please.
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On January 30 2012 12:26 Arkless wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 12:19 babylon wrote:On January 30 2012 12:06 Arkless wrote:On January 30 2012 11:55 babylon wrote:On January 30 2012 11:30 Arkless wrote:On January 30 2012 10:48 babylon wrote:
FF7 is overrated. Protags were boring, antags were boring, graphics were bleh, music was bleh, storyline was shit -- though to be fair, most FF storylines are shit. Squeenix can't actually write any coherent stories. I've spent an obscene amount of time trying to convince myself to like FF7 more, but I just can't manage it.
FF8 is incoherent story-wise and somewhat incoherent character-wise, but all the characters are legitimately interesting when you sit down and look at them in the context of the environment they were raised in. They're basically all sociopathic/psychopathic kids. They left a lot of threads dangling though at the end and could've done more. So many interesting themes that were dropped halfway through. Junction system is lol once you learn how to abuse it.
I can't remember much about FF9 other than it was actually fun.
As for FFX, I am convinced it actually has the best-constructed FF story. You may think it's boring, but it's the one that doesn't give you as big a headache when you're trying to wrap your head around it after you've finished playing it. Whether or not you think the battle system is shit -- I liked it, but tbh, I've spent so long playing Pokemon that I didn't have any trouble with it -- the way the story's brought together is ... not great, but pretty damn good by Squeenix standards. It's a little more exploratory than the other games in the series, and I liked the thematic groundwork they laid out. Characters are pretty boring though but still probably the most consistently written characters in all the FF series up until then.
FF8's my favorite; it's also probably the one with the most failed potential out of all of them.
Best games on the PS1 are the Spyro games anyways. Gogogo, platformers. FF7 , made by squareSOFT. Amazing protags and antags that led to many spin offs and a movie. The amazing storyline helped. For those who shit on FF7 i can't help but think you are either a) Of a much younger era then me (I was born in 1985) OR B) You aren't smart enough to UNDERSTAND the story. That's different then a story being shit. The fact that you praise even a small amount of FF8 and shit on FF7, proves as such. You then go on to say how FFX is the best of them all??? Is that a troll? FF8/X are two of, if not THE worst of the final fantasies. It was trying so hard to BE final fantasy 7, Squall-Cloud ripoff, and Seifer(oth)?????Cmon son, at least be original PS:for the time the FF7 graphics were revolutionary, if you're to young to remember it thats not my fault. > You don't like what I like! > Therefore, you're not smart enough to understand the story! Logic'd, clearly. 1.) Quality does not --> sequels/spinoffs for video games. Popularity --> sequels/spinoffs. Sometimes quality and popularity go together; more often than not, they don't. Pokemon has had so many sequels I've lost count of what generation we're on these days. 2.) Lern 2 read. I didn't say FFX was the best; I said it was the best- constructed of them all. The plot was overly simplistic, but that simplicity allowed them to present it better without getting the entire game lost in its own plot, which has pretty much happened with almost every other FF game out there. Complex plots that are too complicated for their own good do not good games make; just look at ... most RPGs and compare them with, say, Shadow of the Colossus or Ico, which are pretty much works of art insofar as video games go. 3.) I don't even know how to address this one, but Seifer is in no way like Sephiroth. They're not even of the same character type, and they have completely different motivations. Unless you're suggesting that Sephiroth is primarily a gloryhound of near-Gilgamesh-proportions and perfectly sane and aware of what he's doing. 1) Disagree, if it wasn't a quality game to begin with. If it had no fan base, and was "total shit" as you say. They would never have pumped more into it to make sequels etc. The majority of the population is right, not you. 2) Best constructed story implies best of the ff's. Because rpg's are about the story 1st, game play second. I "lern" how to read in high school, where they apparently didn't teach you how to spell. 3) Seifer's mannerisms, clothing, look. 100% sephiroth ripoff with short ,blonde hair. Get over it. 1.) Twilight must be a work of literature, then. What makes something popular is how well it is received. Sometimes, it's the quality that people respond to; more often than not, though, people respond to what they find familiar, enjoyable, and cliche. 2.) No, it doesn't. You just decided to twist my words to try to support your point. Nice try though. 3.) Go ahead. Press the point. Tell me why Sephiroth did what he did in-game; I want to hear your breakdown of his character. We can compare notes and see exactly how different or similar those two characters are. It'd be a good critical thinking exercise. On January 30 2012 12:09 Brett wrote:1.) Quality does not --> sequels/spinoffs for video games. Popularity --> sequels/spinoffs. Sometimes quality and popularity go together; more often than not, they don't. Pokemon has had so many sequels I've lost count of what generation we're on these days. You start off by making the point that 'just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's bad' then essentially do the same thing yourself in the above quote... You're just another opinion on the Internet, buddy. Either stop speaking with an air of authority, or don't be surprised when anyone else does the same... Nobody is right or wrong here... Like whatever the fuck you want to like people... I started off making the point, "Just because I don't like it doesn't mean I'm too stupid to understand the story," actually. He started off with a personal attack, not an opinion about a game (which is what I started with, stating that I think FF7 is overrated). I responded, IMO, politely, given that he tried to call me an idiot. Then I made a very general observation that popularity is what primarily determines sequels. Quality and popularity are correlated, but quality doesn't necessarily generate popularity, nor does popularity guarantee quality. Do you disagree with this point? Further proof I have spent many years as a sketch artist for the NYPD Seifer-oth + Show Spoiler +1)Well, just because YOU DON'T LIKE IT. And neither do I for that matter, but yes. The twighlight series are well written books that appeal to a certain demographic, the problem here is the You're right and everyone else is wrong. 2) Yes it does, your words had to be twisted otherwise are incorrect. Once again though, You're right. Everyone else is wrong. 3) If you can't see how seifer is a complete rip off of sephiroth then i dont know what to tell you. Asking me to tell you what sephiroth did in one day, is like asking to have the bible summed up in one sentence. GG/No re, sorry man. You're of the extreme minority.
Ummm. You understand that physical character design is not the only aspect to a character, right? I can name three different characters from three different manga/anime who look exactly the same with completely different personalities yet acting in the same "roles" in their respective stories, and in no way would I ever suggest that they're the same character or even copies of each other.
1. "The twighlight series are well written books" <--- ಠ_ಠ
2. Let me rephrase myself then: Sometimes it's better to go for a simplistic, cliche story with a simple, common theme like FFX does and to present it as best you can than it is to write a wildly complex story with multiple shades and to get lost in your own plot (which FF7-9 all do). I think FFX worked its given material better than any other game in the series; it's, btw, still not my favorite FF. I compliment it for a quality I find lacking in the rest of the FF series, and I think that it's more cleanly presented than the other stories. That doesn't mean I think it's the best, because there are a number of other factors that should obviously be considered when judging an RPG. (Gameplay, for instance, is much better in all the other FFs. FFX was much too linear and boring.)
3. The fact that Seifer is portrayed as a "fallen bad boy who is actually not a legitimately bad person" as opposed to "Sephiroth, our hero who just happened to go insane and wants to destroy the world for his alien mother" should really say enough about how entirely different the two of them are.
I'm actually fine with people loathing FF8 for its actual faults (of which there are many), but asserting that Seifer and Sephiroth are anywhere near similar in the ways that matter is mindboggling. Criticize FF8 for its whiny protagonist Squall or its shitty plot where you don't even know the main antagonist until the end of the third disc or even its hilariously bad junction system, the dropped threads and storylines halfway through, but don't try to say that Seifer and Sephiroth are the same, please. That just makes my head hurt.
And yes, Twilight is a misogynistic piece of pandering shit written as wish-fulfillment fantasy for a bunch of teenage girls.
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I never got to finish legend of dragoon, i might emulate it so i can finish it off. I was probably about halfway through the game, i would assume almost the end of the 2nd disc is where i stopped playing.
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Chrono Trigger is one of the best games I've ever played.
But for your sake, I suggest that you do NOT ever touch Chrono Cross. Just pretend it never happened.
As far as decent modern RPG's, one I really liked was this one.
PS: If you didn't exclude it on purpose, I hope you're planning on playing Yoshi's Island for the SNES.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49653 Posts
On January 30 2012 09:51 TheGiz wrote:
Final Fantasy X had a perfect battle and upgrade system and a lot of challenging battles in and out of the story. That absolutely deserves a mention. To be perfectly honest though I think FFXIII wasn't bad (not amazing) and I thought it slotted in well with the Final Fantasy feel. The only thing missing were towns. I grew to enjoy the battle system after a while and the art direction is superb. There were also some pretty hard battles;I still haven't beat Orphan, and motherfucking Barthandalus battles are nightmares. Comparing Barthandalus with Seymour the only Seymour battle I had trouble with was Seymour Flux. Barthandalus was difficult every time.
I can't say much about Bioware games because I've only played KOTOR, which was awesome. There was an intense thread on /v/ the other day talking about how deep and philosophical KOTOR 2 is, but I heard it's incomplete.
All I know is that you should stop being such a cynic and look at things with a like vs. don't like mentality a la Day[9]. Don't compare games to others, just evaluate them on their own merits. Skyrim, for example, is buggy, but it's a solid game otherwise. Notice how I don't have to go HURRR MORROWIND 4EVAR when playing the game. It's just like my idiot friends who write off Minecraft for the graphics when they don't realize the beauty and potential of the game.
Just learn to enjoy things for what they are.
yeah but then the TSL mod came to be and the game suddenly got so different and so better.
OP if there is any new age RPG you should play its Kotor 1 and Kotor 2 TSL.
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On January 30 2012 12:49 koreasilver wrote:
I've actually been wondering if there are any good RPGs for the PS3. I had FFXIII but that was really bad.
Recently the ones I dedicated quite a bit of time into was Dark Souls and Valkyria Chronicles
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On January 30 2012 11:22 HuKPOWA wrote:
who remembers when you actually struggled with some levels on video games? now i beat most games in a day or 2....with work :\
Play Etrian Odyssey 3! It's a dungeon crawler on the Nintendo DS with a super unforgiving difficulty and learning curve, but it is sooooo satisfying overcoming each challenge. Here's the review that inspired me to check it out:
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/129052/etrian-odyssey-3-now-includes-ships-robots-and-old-people/p1
Other DS games:
Rune Factory 3 - It's a Harvest Moon derivative with a surprisingly fleshed out RPG system - farming is one of the simplest ways to increase your battle stats, though if you want, it's possible to complete the game with very minimal farming - lots of different ways to approach it. The best part though is definitely the character designs - the town feels so alive and there's quite a variety of personalities to cover a range of tastes
Radiant Historia - has been mentioned a number of times already in this thread, though personally I couldn't really get into it. I guess the plot is interesting enough, but the battles started to get too repetitive for me (stack 'em up, smack them around, rinse and repeat ad nauseum).
The World Ends With You (TWEWY) - interesting action jRPG that makes use of both screens; namely you get to fight 2 battles simultaneously, one on each screen. Multitasking ftw?
And some Atlus GBA (I believe both of these also later had PSP releases) games:
Riviera: The Promised Land - unique item-focused RPG; also known for the infamous bath scenes
Yggdra Union - technically this is more of a TBS RPG. Known for the massive overload of information for beginners, but if you really like mastering the nitty-gritty details, it's quite fun to setting up perfect formations to smash through enemy lines
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Jade Cocoon and Digimon World are pretty good RPGs similar to pokemon if you enjoy them.
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Don't think it was posted yet, but "The World Ends With You" ("It's a Wonderful World") came out back in '08, I believe, and while it was much more action-oriented than other JRPGs, it was simultaneously unique (dat combat system) without any glaring flaws. However, you have to actually try to play it out to get the full experience. If you just blitz through the game without stopping to "smell the roses", it dumbs down the effect a lot. I restarted once I found myself at the "Square Enix door of not-being-able-to-save-past-here-because-it's-the-last-boss", after a week of playing (kind of funny when you think about it... I played for a week, then started over) because I could tell there was a lot of content I missed. The music was one of the things that sold it for me. Granted, there were a number of songs I didn't like, but the ones I did, I really enjoyed.
It's out for DS, I'd recommend it if you get the chance, probably my favorite DS game, so far.
EDIT: Oh lol, the guy above me mentioned it TT. I feel dumb now.
EDIT AGAIN: Two people mentioned it. Have you ever herp'd so hard that you derp'd?
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Really, you find all newer RPG's boring? There have been some really great ones, mostly bioware games (best being mass effect, star wars kotor, and dragon age origins). TO things not on the list, baldur's gate and it's sequel Shadows of Amn is probably the best RPG ever made (imo).
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^^ Agreed! Actually there's this game called planescape torment that I really love too :D!
Of newer (comparatively) jrpgs, the smt: persona rpgs were quite cool. Havent really played any of the new ones on the ps3/360, I heard even the sakaguchi ones werent that great. I havent had time to play ff13 yet, probably during the summer....
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Tales of Vesperia WRECKS ToS fyi. I loved ToS but Vesperia just blew it out of the water. The characters in Vesperia are unbelievably good and there aren't really any annoying characters.
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I have to agree with you, So far the rpgs i have played haven't really been as amazing as i remember when i was a kid playing on my PS1. I think the devs got lazy with story, and just focus on pretty graphics. but i guess thats how it goes....
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Canada8029 Posts
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On January 30 2012 09:56 atmuh wrote:
final fantasy X was HORRENDOUS
I agree. The "twist" in the story to FFX actually makes the game unplayable. I've never met someone willing to play the game through after hearing the twist.
Planescape Torment is the best western rpg as far as story goes. I've heard Baldur's Gate 2 mentioned a lot as probably being the most fun overall.
Persona 2 Innocent Sin is probably the most well flowing JRPG (there's a translation patch floating around, there's also a psp version coming out), Eternal Punishment was the sequel and was less controversial so it was translated and released. (PS1 games. Both are excellent, but the battle system is a little trying at times). Shin Megami Tensei 2/3 deserve mention as well, especially Nocturne(3) if you have access to a ps2 (first one is a SNES game). The Devil Survivor game for DS was excellent as well, though I wasn't a fan of strange journey (smt 4).
edit :
Oh, and yes, Chrono Trigger probably gets to go down as the best 16 bit rpg.
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On January 30 2012 09:32 atmuh wrote:
And FFVII isn't as good as the others in the series anyway. It's incredibly overrated.
This is where I decided that offering you good RPG's would be a waste of time. If you dismiss one of the greatest RPG's of all time as "overrated," your taste must be terrible.
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As has been said Super Mario RPG is a pretty sick rpg. There's good replay value too since there's lots of easter eggs and such. Every setting is pretty unique, good story , good characters. Has remained my favorite rpg throughout the years.
Geno is a boss.
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On January 30 2012 14:21 Nibbler89 wrote:
As has been said Super Mario RPG is a pretty sick rpg. There's good replay value too since there's lots of easter eggs and such. Every setting is pretty unique, good story , good characters. Has remained my favorite rpg throughout the years.
Geno is a boss.
x1000
I think the newest games I've played and really enjoyed were disgaea and so3
But I love the list in your OP, please add as many as possible because it's nice to have a list for when I have free time and wanna emulate!
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Dragon Warrior Monsters and Dragon Warrior Monsters 2. Absolutely genius.
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Oh god tales of symphonia. Loved that game. Never finished it... Time to dig out my GameCube!
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OMG Legend of Dragoon was SOOOO GOOOD.
Today's Eternal Sonata is pretty excellent too!
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New JRPGs are terrible I agree. But there are a lot of new WRPGs that have come out in the last few years that are very good.
The Witcher 1 and 2
Skyrim
Bastion
Deus Ex: Human Revolution
Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas
Mass Effect 1 and 2
Dragon Age: Origins
Maybe not all of these will appeal to everyone. But at least one will.
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You must not have played The World Ends With You or Disgae then.
PS : FF games have been terrible since the VIIth anyway, expect maybe the VIII.
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United States369 Posts
If you like quirky JRPGs, Okage is pretty damn excellent, never mind the really shoddy English translation. I can't say the story makes a lick of sense and the humor isn't for everyone, but it has great characters and it's a fun take/parody on the standard fantasy game that doesn't take itself too seriously. Plus you play a silent hero whose shadow is being controlled by a demon who calls himself Evil King Stan. This is awesome in my book.
On January 30 2012 12:01 Tasaio wrote:
As for newer games, I find the Tales of~ series good (they hardly change, though). Tales of Graces was good. I really liked FFXIII, it had a lack of towns, but a nice story and the best battle system I've seen in a long time. Also, the ending was a bit disappointing. I'm playing through FFXIII-2 at the moment.
One of my most favorite JRPG games ever is Persona 4 (and 3). If you haven't checked those out, I definitely recommend it.
But then again, aside from a few top titles (Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger), I see more appeal in newer games, so my advice might not be for you.
Persona 3 and 4 are both solid and I love the writing in these games, provided I remember to turn my brain off once they hit the standard JRPG double plot twist. Only quibbles would be 1) they have some seriously painful dungeon-grinding, and the support characters in battles are both irritating as hell; and 2) because of the structure of the games, which combine a regular action RPG with a sort of dating sim game, it really draaaags sometimes while you're waiting for the plot to pick back up.
Oh, and the music to the original Persona 3 was kind of godawful, so glad they changed it up a bit for FES.
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Super Mario RPG not on the list  Hands down my favourite RPG of all time!
I also enjoyed Golden Sun 1 and 2 for GBA.
Persona 4 was great (music is amazing!)
If you've got a DS, give Devil Survivor a try! I must have played it through 4 or 5 times to get all the endings lol.
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On January 30 2012 12:19 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 12:06 Arkless wrote:On January 30 2012 11:55 babylon wrote:On January 30 2012 11:30 Arkless wrote:On January 30 2012 10:48 babylon wrote:
FF7 is overrated. Protags were boring, antags were boring, graphics were bleh, music was bleh, storyline was shit -- though to be fair, most FF storylines are shit. Squeenix can't actually write any coherent stories. I've spent an obscene amount of time trying to convince myself to like FF7 more, but I just can't manage it.
FF8 is incoherent story-wise and somewhat incoherent character-wise, but all the characters are legitimately interesting when you sit down and look at them in the context of the environment they were raised in. They're basically all sociopathic/psychopathic kids. They left a lot of threads dangling though at the end and could've done more. So many interesting themes that were dropped halfway through. Junction system is lol once you learn how to abuse it.
I can't remember much about FF9 other than it was actually fun.
As for FFX, I am convinced it actually has the best-constructed FF story. You may think it's boring, but it's the one that doesn't give you as big a headache when you're trying to wrap your head around it after you've finished playing it. Whether or not you think the battle system is shit -- I liked it, but tbh, I've spent so long playing Pokemon that I didn't have any trouble with it -- the way the story's brought together is ... not great, but pretty damn good by Squeenix standards. It's a little more exploratory than the other games in the series, and I liked the thematic groundwork they laid out. Characters are pretty boring though but still probably the most consistently written characters in all the FF series up until then.
FF8's my favorite; it's also probably the one with the most failed potential out of all of them.
Best games on the PS1 are the Spyro games anyways. Gogogo, platformers. FF7 , made by squareSOFT. Amazing protags and antags that led to many spin offs and a movie. The amazing storyline helped. For those who shit on FF7 i can't help but think you are either a) Of a much younger era then me (I was born in 1985) OR B) You aren't smart enough to UNDERSTAND the story. That's different then a story being shit. The fact that you praise even a small amount of FF8 and shit on FF7, proves as such. You then go on to say how FFX is the best of them all??? Is that a troll? FF8/X are two of, if not THE worst of the final fantasies. It was trying so hard to BE final fantasy 7, Squall-Cloud ripoff, and Seifer(oth)?????Cmon son, at least be original PS:for the time the FF7 graphics were revolutionary, if you're to young to remember it thats not my fault. > You don't like what I like! > Therefore, you're not smart enough to understand the story! Logic'd, clearly. 1.) Quality does not --> sequels/spinoffs for video games. Popularity --> sequels/spinoffs. Sometimes quality and popularity go together; more often than not, they don't. Pokemon has had so many sequels I've lost count of what generation we're on these days. 2.) Lern 2 read. I didn't say FFX was the best; I said it was the best- constructed of them all. The plot was overly simplistic, but that simplicity allowed them to present it better without getting the entire game lost in its own plot, which has pretty much happened with almost every other FF game out there. Complex plots that are too complicated for their own good do not good games make; just look at ... most RPGs and compare them with, say, Shadow of the Colossus or Ico, which are pretty much works of art insofar as video games go. 3.) I don't even know how to address this one, but Seifer is in no way like Sephiroth. They're not even of the same character type, and they have completely different motivations. Unless you're suggesting that Sephiroth is primarily a gloryhound of near-Gilgamesh-proportions and perfectly sane and aware of what he's doing. 1) Disagree, if it wasn't a quality game to begin with. If it had no fan base, and was "total shit" as you say. They would never have pumped more into it to make sequels etc. The majority of the population is right, not you. 2) Best constructed story implies best of the ff's. Because rpg's are about the story 1st, game play second. I "lern" how to read in high school, where they apparently didn't teach you how to spell. 3) Seifer's mannerisms, clothing, look. 100% sephiroth ripoff with short ,blonde hair. Get over it. 1.) Twilight must be a work of literature, then. What makes something popular is how well it is received. Sometimes, it's the quality that people respond to; more often than not, though, people respond to what they find familiar, enjoyable, and cliche. 2.) No, it doesn't. You just decided to twist my words to try to support your point. Nice try though. 3.) Go ahead. Press the point. Tell me why Sephiroth did what he did in-game; I want to hear your breakdown of his character. We can compare notes and see exactly how different or similar those two characters are. It'd be a good critical thinking exercise. Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 12:09 Brett wrote:1.) Quality does not --> sequels/spinoffs for video games. Popularity --> sequels/spinoffs. Sometimes quality and popularity go together; more often than not, they don't. Pokemon has had so many sequels I've lost count of what generation we're on these days. You start off by making the point that 'just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's bad' then essentially do the same thing yourself in the above quote... You're just another opinion on the Internet, buddy. Either stop speaking with an air of authority, or don't be surprised when anyone else does the same... Nobody is right or wrong here... Like whatever the fuck you want to like people... I started off making the point, "Just because I don't like it doesn't mean I'm too stupid to understand the story," actually. He started off with a personal attack, not an opinion about a game (which is what I started with, stating that I think FF7 is overrated). I responded, IMO, politely, given that he tried to call me an idiot. Then I made a very general observation that popularity is what primarily determines sequels. Quality and popularity are correlated, but quality doesn't necessarily generate popularity, nor does popularity guarantee quality. Do you disagree with this point?
Yeah, I think I was reading one thing as I was typing and had a sort of cross-pollination of my thoughts that resulted in a sentence that didn't really apply. I banged it out at work and didn't proof-read it.
All I intended was basically to make the point that you appropriately pointed out that just because there is a difference in opinion, it does not necessarily follow that you're not smart enough to follow a story. But also, just because you disliked a certain game's characters, graphics, music, etc, it does not necessarily follow that the game is overrated. All that follows is that you have a particular opinion... I mean, I was surprised by your pokemon comment... Not because I like pokemon (it's definitely not my thing), but because those games are well generally well regarded by critics and fans alike. But hey, your opinion man.
Bottom line (for everyone, although you're one of those trying to be more foreceful with your opinions) - Everyone is allowed to like or dislike whatever the fuck they want. If someone proffers an opinion that indicates they don't share the same tastes as you, then feel free to simply disregard that opinion and any suggestions they might make about games worth playing; having read the thread, and many others like it, I know whose taste I personally trust.
I don't need to address your comments about the correlation or lack thereof between quality and popularity because it's completely irrelevant to the point I'm making.
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On January 30 2012 14:19 liberal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 09:32 atmuh wrote:
And FFVII isn't as good as the others in the series anyway. It's incredibly overrated. This is where I decided that offering you good RPG's would be a waste of time. If you dismiss one of the greatest RPG's of all time as "overrated," your taste must be terrible.
By the way, just a thought.
Something cannot be overrated if people experienced it and enjoyed it.
Something is overrated when people respect it, sometimes even admire it, without actually having experienced it. When their respect comes from "what people say".
However, millions have played FFVII, enjoyed it, and considered it one of the best RPGs of all time. It is therefore not overrated, it's just that you have a different opinion.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 30 2012 17:06 Teim wrote:
New JRPGs are terrible I agree. But there are a lot of new WRPGs that have come out in the last few years that are very good.
The Witcher 1 and 2
Skyrim
Bastion
Deus Ex: Human Revolution
Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas
Mass Effect 1 and 2
Dragon Age: Origins
Maybe not all of these will appeal to everyone. But at least one will.
Actually, most hardcore western RPG fans have very similar complaints about older western RPGs vs. modern ones that JRPG fans have about their genre.
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I disagree with the OP... :/ I like the new RPGs, although I didn't play many older ones. What about these older RPGs makes them a ton better? (I realize it obviously isn't graphics or anything like that O_o)
How would you feel about a company re-releasing an older RPG with better graphics as a throwback?
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I feel you OP, I did the exact same thing over the past years : I did all the RPG I missed on PS, PS2, SNES. And all the tacticals too.
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people keep mentioning certain games that i played so i added those to the op so that they stop suggesting them
ill go through this [incredibly amusing] thread at some point today and add some more games to my list
and yes bioware games are still awful
oh yeah and im up to the final battle with lavos in chrono trigger so ill probably be done with that tonight so i have to decide on what to play next
itll most likely be either earthbound or final fantasy tactics
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On January 30 2012 09:51 TheGiz wrote:
Final Fantasy X had a perfect battle and upgrade system and a lot of challenging battles in and out of the story. That absolutely deserves a mention. To be perfectly honest though I think FFXIII wasn't bad (not amazing) and I thought it slotted in well with the Final Fantasy feel. The only thing missing were towns. I grew to enjoy the battle system after a while and the art direction is superb. There were also some pretty hard battles;I still haven't beat Orphan, and motherfucking Barthandalus battles are nightmares. Comparing Barthandalus with Seymour the only Seymour battle I had trouble with was Seymour Flux. Barthandalus was difficult every time.
I can't say much about Bioware games because I've only played KOTOR, which was awesome. There was an intense thread on /v/ the other day talking about how deep and philosophical KOTOR 2 is, but I heard it's incomplete.
All I know is that you should stop being such a cynic and look at things with a like vs. don't like mentality a la Day[9]. Don't compare games to others, just evaluate them on their own merits. Skyrim, for example, is buggy, but it's a solid game otherwise. Notice how I don't have to go HURRR MORROWIND 4EVAR when playing the game. It's just like my idiot friends who write off Minecraft for the graphics when they don't realize the beauty and potential of the game.
Just learn to enjoy things for what they are.
i originally stopped reading this post after "Final Fantasy X had a perfect battle and upgrade system" but after reading the whole thing i had a really good laugh thanks 5/5
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On January 30 2012 21:12 Ninja_Bread wrote:
I disagree with the OP... :/ I like the new RPGs, although I didn't play many older ones. What about these older RPGs makes them a ton better? (I realize it obviously isn't graphics or anything like that O_o)
How would you feel about a company re-releasing an older RPG with better graphics as a throwback?
Dunno about the OP, but this is my reason...
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JV9rg.jpg)
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Since people are discussing rpgs, I suppose this is a convenient enough moment to ask if anyone can recommend me a game or two. I've recently been playing through The Last Remnant(which is sad considering I bought it when it came out) and it's one of those "the enemy scales up in level along with you" games. I'm curious if can anyone recommend a game similar to that which... isn't done poorly? Every time I play a game where the monsters scale with you it seems to inevitably lead to a point where you're kinda fucked because the monsters usually scale much, much better than your party members do. It ends up leading to a point where I feel like in order to play the game I need to in essence... not play the game because I'm encouraged to skip battles left and right instead of fighting them.
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One game that never gets enough credit is FFX-2. Sure the story is a high-grade very airy cheese, but it's really fun to play. And after FFX it was a welcome surprise.
Something that's lost by newer RPG's is light-heartedness imo. All those new games take themselves too seriously (any FF come out lately), although some like Mass Effect have some leeway with that.
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RPGs are essentially stories that you participate as on of the characters in. Even old RPGs had some good stories, but in order to really enjoy an RPG you have to allow yourself to get absorbed by the story and characters. I think it would be true to say that modern RPGs have sacrificed story for more action and improved user interface. I've never really got into JRPGs, but I have played a lot of what used to be called "adventure" games, that have had very good stories and characters.
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On January 31 2012 00:53 Auren wrote:
Since people are discussing rpgs, I suppose this is a convenient enough moment to ask if anyone can recommend me a game or two. I've recently been playing through The Last Remnant(which is sad considering I bought it when it came out) and it's one of those "the enemy scales up in level along with you" games. I'm curious if can anyone recommend a game similar to that which... isn't done poorly? Every time I play a game where the monsters scale with you it seems to inevitably lead to a point where you're kinda fucked because the monsters usually scale much, much better than your party members do. It ends up leading to a point where I feel like in order to play the game I need to in essence... not play the game because I'm encouraged to skip battles left and right instead of fighting them.
Check this one out. It's rather new and in open-beta right now. It runs sort of like a diablo 1 concept. Definitely fun enough to melt away some hours... It's keeping me pre-occupied right now at least.
http://www.drakensang.com/
It can be played even in your browser and has a full-screen toggle. Stuff is always getting added, and the devs are always busy coding new features in.
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On January 31 2012 03:50 Horrde wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 00:53 Auren wrote:
Since people are discussing rpgs, I suppose this is a convenient enough moment to ask if anyone can recommend me a game or two. I've recently been playing through The Last Remnant(which is sad considering I bought it when it came out) and it's one of those "the enemy scales up in level along with you" games. I'm curious if can anyone recommend a game similar to that which... isn't done poorly? Every time I play a game where the monsters scale with you it seems to inevitably lead to a point where you're kinda fucked because the monsters usually scale much, much better than your party members do. It ends up leading to a point where I feel like in order to play the game I need to in essence... not play the game because I'm encouraged to skip battles left and right instead of fighting them. Check this one out. It's rather new and in open-beta right now. It runs sort of like a diablo 1 concept. Definitely fun enough to melt away some hours... It's keeping me pre-occupied right now at least. http://www.drakensang.com/It can be played even in your browser and has a full-screen toggle. Stuff is always getting added, and the devs are always busy coding new features in.
a game thats designed to "melt away hours" isnt designed for you to have fun its designed to waste your time
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On January 31 2012 02:27 Grndr101 wrote:
One game that never gets enough credit is FFX-2. Sure the story is a high-grade very airy cheese, but it's really fun to play. And after FFX it was a welcome surprise.
Something that's lost by newer RPG's is light-heartedness imo. All those new games take themselves too seriously (any FF come out lately), although some like Mass Effect have some leeway with that.
i feel like most people who loved FFX were disappointed by FFX-2. Maybe i didn't give it enough of a chance...i guess what i was really looking for was a clone of FFX rofl. Super excited for FFXIII-2 tomorrow though :DDD
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On January 31 2012 03:56 atmuh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 03:50 Horrde wrote:On January 31 2012 00:53 Auren wrote:
Since people are discussing rpgs, I suppose this is a convenient enough moment to ask if anyone can recommend me a game or two. I've recently been playing through The Last Remnant(which is sad considering I bought it when it came out) and it's one of those "the enemy scales up in level along with you" games. I'm curious if can anyone recommend a game similar to that which... isn't done poorly? Every time I play a game where the monsters scale with you it seems to inevitably lead to a point where you're kinda fucked because the monsters usually scale much, much better than your party members do. It ends up leading to a point where I feel like in order to play the game I need to in essence... not play the game because I'm encouraged to skip battles left and right instead of fighting them. Check this one out. It's rather new and in open-beta right now. It runs sort of like a diablo 1 concept. Definitely fun enough to melt away some hours... It's keeping me pre-occupied right now at least. http://www.drakensang.com/It can be played even in your browser and has a full-screen toggle. Stuff is always getting added, and the devs are always busy coding new features in. a game thats designed to "melt away hours" isnt designed for you to have fun its designed to waste your time
????? It's a video game. If you're going to be pessimistic, then get the hell out of here, because I don't care for it.
What the hell are you doing on a video game forum if this is your mindset? Really, gtfo with that garbage. Fucking hilarious, thanks for a good laugh.
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On January 31 2012 04:42 Horrde wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 03:56 atmuh wrote:On January 31 2012 03:50 Horrde wrote:On January 31 2012 00:53 Auren wrote:
Since people are discussing rpgs, I suppose this is a convenient enough moment to ask if anyone can recommend me a game or two. I've recently been playing through The Last Remnant(which is sad considering I bought it when it came out) and it's one of those "the enemy scales up in level along with you" games. I'm curious if can anyone recommend a game similar to that which... isn't done poorly? Every time I play a game where the monsters scale with you it seems to inevitably lead to a point where you're kinda fucked because the monsters usually scale much, much better than your party members do. It ends up leading to a point where I feel like in order to play the game I need to in essence... not play the game because I'm encouraged to skip battles left and right instead of fighting them. Check this one out. It's rather new and in open-beta right now. It runs sort of like a diablo 1 concept. Definitely fun enough to melt away some hours... It's keeping me pre-occupied right now at least. http://www.drakensang.com/It can be played even in your browser and has a full-screen toggle. Stuff is always getting added, and the devs are always busy coding new features in. a game thats designed to "melt away hours" isnt designed for you to have fun its designed to waste your time ????? It's a video game. If you're going to be pessimistic, then get the hell out of here, because I don't care for it. What the hell are you doing on a video game forum if this is your mindset? Really, gtfo with that garbage. Fucking hilarious, thanks for a good laugh.
what?
those free mmo w/e games are intentionally designed in such a way that you lose track of time doing menial tasks over and over
theyre designed so that you waste countless hours grinding towards a goal that ends up being not all that interesting but makes the next goal that requires a lot more grinding look even more desirable
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On January 31 2012 04:42 Horrde wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 03:56 atmuh wrote:On January 31 2012 03:50 Horrde wrote:On January 31 2012 00:53 Auren wrote:
Since people are discussing rpgs, I suppose this is a convenient enough moment to ask if anyone can recommend me a game or two. I've recently been playing through The Last Remnant(which is sad considering I bought it when it came out) and it's one of those "the enemy scales up in level along with you" games. I'm curious if can anyone recommend a game similar to that which... isn't done poorly? Every time I play a game where the monsters scale with you it seems to inevitably lead to a point where you're kinda fucked because the monsters usually scale much, much better than your party members do. It ends up leading to a point where I feel like in order to play the game I need to in essence... not play the game because I'm encouraged to skip battles left and right instead of fighting them. Check this one out. It's rather new and in open-beta right now. It runs sort of like a diablo 1 concept. Definitely fun enough to melt away some hours... It's keeping me pre-occupied right now at least. http://www.drakensang.com/It can be played even in your browser and has a full-screen toggle. Stuff is always getting added, and the devs are always busy coding new features in. a game thats designed to "melt away hours" isnt designed for you to have fun its designed to waste your time ????? It's a video game. If you're going to be pessimistic, then get the hell out of here, because I don't care for it. What the hell are you doing on a video game forum if this is your mindset? Really, gtfo with that garbage. Fucking hilarious, thanks for a good laugh.
Wow calm down, you sound like a fanatic...
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Why are the Shining Force games not on your list? What a travesty.
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And what's the final goal in d2 or d3? Grinding for loot and gear to deck out a char for whatever reason? Level Cap? Beating hell? PvP, PvE??
I don't know what you expect... From saying it's a waste of time, it's only fair I can assume you have time to waste. It's a simple recommendation. If you're biased towards something you've never played, great, then move on. Don't shit on something you've never tried. A close minded opinion should be kept to yourself. People can click the link and decide then if they want to play or not. I don't even give a shit if anyone plays it or not.
Edit:
On January 31 2012 04:54 Kukaracha wrote:
Wow calm down, you sound like a fanatic...
Yeah... that's it...
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ive tried my fair share of free and paid mmos
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On January 30 2012 18:57 Brett wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 12:19 babylon wrote:On January 30 2012 12:06 Arkless wrote:On January 30 2012 11:55 babylon wrote:On January 30 2012 11:30 Arkless wrote:On January 30 2012 10:48 babylon wrote:
FF7 is overrated. Protags were boring, antags were boring, graphics were bleh, music was bleh, storyline was shit -- though to be fair, most FF storylines are shit. Squeenix can't actually write any coherent stories. I've spent an obscene amount of time trying to convince myself to like FF7 more, but I just can't manage it.
FF8 is incoherent story-wise and somewhat incoherent character-wise, but all the characters are legitimately interesting when you sit down and look at them in the context of the environment they were raised in. They're basically all sociopathic/psychopathic kids. They left a lot of threads dangling though at the end and could've done more. So many interesting themes that were dropped halfway through. Junction system is lol once you learn how to abuse it.
I can't remember much about FF9 other than it was actually fun.
As for FFX, I am convinced it actually has the best-constructed FF story. You may think it's boring, but it's the one that doesn't give you as big a headache when you're trying to wrap your head around it after you've finished playing it. Whether or not you think the battle system is shit -- I liked it, but tbh, I've spent so long playing Pokemon that I didn't have any trouble with it -- the way the story's brought together is ... not great, but pretty damn good by Squeenix standards. It's a little more exploratory than the other games in the series, and I liked the thematic groundwork they laid out. Characters are pretty boring though but still probably the most consistently written characters in all the FF series up until then.
FF8's my favorite; it's also probably the one with the most failed potential out of all of them.
Best games on the PS1 are the Spyro games anyways. Gogogo, platformers. FF7 , made by squareSOFT. Amazing protags and antags that led to many spin offs and a movie. The amazing storyline helped. For those who shit on FF7 i can't help but think you are either a) Of a much younger era then me (I was born in 1985) OR B) You aren't smart enough to UNDERSTAND the story. That's different then a story being shit. The fact that you praise even a small amount of FF8 and shit on FF7, proves as such. You then go on to say how FFX is the best of them all??? Is that a troll? FF8/X are two of, if not THE worst of the final fantasies. It was trying so hard to BE final fantasy 7, Squall-Cloud ripoff, and Seifer(oth)?????Cmon son, at least be original PS:for the time the FF7 graphics were revolutionary, if you're to young to remember it thats not my fault. > You don't like what I like! > Therefore, you're not smart enough to understand the story! Logic'd, clearly. 1.) Quality does not --> sequels/spinoffs for video games. Popularity --> sequels/spinoffs. Sometimes quality and popularity go together; more often than not, they don't. Pokemon has had so many sequels I've lost count of what generation we're on these days. 2.) Lern 2 read. I didn't say FFX was the best; I said it was the best- constructed of them all. The plot was overly simplistic, but that simplicity allowed them to present it better without getting the entire game lost in its own plot, which has pretty much happened with almost every other FF game out there. Complex plots that are too complicated for their own good do not good games make; just look at ... most RPGs and compare them with, say, Shadow of the Colossus or Ico, which are pretty much works of art insofar as video games go. 3.) I don't even know how to address this one, but Seifer is in no way like Sephiroth. They're not even of the same character type, and they have completely different motivations. Unless you're suggesting that Sephiroth is primarily a gloryhound of near-Gilgamesh-proportions and perfectly sane and aware of what he's doing. 1) Disagree, if it wasn't a quality game to begin with. If it had no fan base, and was "total shit" as you say. They would never have pumped more into it to make sequels etc. The majority of the population is right, not you. 2) Best constructed story implies best of the ff's. Because rpg's are about the story 1st, game play second. I "lern" how to read in high school, where they apparently didn't teach you how to spell. 3) Seifer's mannerisms, clothing, look. 100% sephiroth ripoff with short ,blonde hair. Get over it. 1.) Twilight must be a work of literature, then. What makes something popular is how well it is received. Sometimes, it's the quality that people respond to; more often than not, though, people respond to what they find familiar, enjoyable, and cliche. 2.) No, it doesn't. You just decided to twist my words to try to support your point. Nice try though. 3.) Go ahead. Press the point. Tell me why Sephiroth did what he did in-game; I want to hear your breakdown of his character. We can compare notes and see exactly how different or similar those two characters are. It'd be a good critical thinking exercise. On January 30 2012 12:09 Brett wrote:1.) Quality does not --> sequels/spinoffs for video games. Popularity --> sequels/spinoffs. Sometimes quality and popularity go together; more often than not, they don't. Pokemon has had so many sequels I've lost count of what generation we're on these days. You start off by making the point that 'just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's bad' then essentially do the same thing yourself in the above quote... You're just another opinion on the Internet, buddy. Either stop speaking with an air of authority, or don't be surprised when anyone else does the same... Nobody is right or wrong here... Like whatever the fuck you want to like people... I started off making the point, "Just because I don't like it doesn't mean I'm too stupid to understand the story," actually. He started off with a personal attack, not an opinion about a game (which is what I started with, stating that I think FF7 is overrated). I responded, IMO, politely, given that he tried to call me an idiot. Then I made a very general observation that popularity is what primarily determines sequels. Quality and popularity are correlated, but quality doesn't necessarily generate popularity, nor does popularity guarantee quality. Do you disagree with this point? Yeah, I think I was reading one thing as I was typing and had a sort of cross-pollination of my thoughts that resulted in a sentence that didn't really apply. I banged it out at work and didn't proof-read it. All I intended was basically to make the point that you appropriately pointed out that just because there is a difference in opinion, it does not necessarily follow that you're not smart enough to follow a story. But also, just because you disliked a certain game's characters, graphics, music, etc, it does not necessarily follow that the game is overrated. All that follows is that you have a particular opinion... I mean, I was surprised by your pokemon comment... Not because I like pokemon (it's definitely not my thing), but because those games are well generally well regarded by critics and fans alike. But hey, your opinion man. Bottom line (for everyone, although you're one of those trying to be more foreceful with your opinions) - Everyone is allowed to like or dislike whatever the fuck they want. If someone proffers an opinion that indicates they don't share the same tastes as you, then feel free to simply disregard that opinion and any suggestions they might make about games worth playing; having read the thread, and many others like it, I know whose taste I personally trust. I don't need to address your comments about the correlation or lack thereof between quality and popularity because it's completely irrelevant to the point I'm making.
My criticizing a game (or anything else, including films, books, etc.) does not necessarily mean I intensely dislike what I'm criticizing. I actually love the fuck out of Pokemon; I just think, stepping outside of the game and looking at it, it's nothing all that amazing -- and therefore, I consider it overrated to myself and whoever else wants to listen to me word-vomit on the topic. "Overrated" necessarily implies a comparison of everyone else's opinion with my own. Whether or not that means my opinion is the "right" one is another matter altogether. (Though I do think it's healthy to be able to look at games/books/films you like and to be able to lay out both the pros and cons and to explain why you like what you like.)
Insofar as FF7 goes, I don't actively dislike it, but I am rather indifferent towards it than any of the other FF games I've played. If you'd like me to discuss it with you in more detail, feel free to PM me. You seem more reasonable than "I worked as an NYPD sketch artist, they have the same features, therefore they're the same character!!11!"
If you're wondering why I was forceful with my opinion, three reasons: a.) stress due to midterm week (lolol), b.) the repeated personal attacks, and c.) the fact that he said something that didn't even make sense (i.e. the Seifer = Sephiroth comment). If he'd picked on FF8's numerous plotholes or Squall's inconsistent characterization, I'd have been perfectly fine to let that rest, but he used the worst example he could by trying to compare Seifer and Sephiroth. If he'd left it at "Squall is much too similar to Cloud," (a point he made that I didn't contest), I probably would've let that go, because they are based off the same character type so prevalent in JRPG -- namely, stoic emo pretty-boy heroes. Sadly, he didn't, and then he refused to back up his point beyond stating that they have the same facial structure.
Different opinions I am fine with; OP thinks FFX is horrendous, and I don't care to contest that, because he didn't state anything that could be considered absurdly inaccurate. However, an inaccurate statement about two very different characters made by a person who decides to personally attack you for lack of understanding, and then refuses to back up his point beyond "they look similar" and "if you can't see how they're the same, lololol" ... well, that is a little more irritating, you understand. (Especially when I actually did go through the game transcript to pick out details to support my points, while he just sat down and said, "Oh, do you expect me to know off the top of my head?" No, I don't, do some fucking research. Waste of effort.)
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Final Fantasy IX
BEST FF EVER!
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On January 31 2012 06:00 Arterial wrote:
Final Fantasy IX
BEST FF EVER!
WINNER!
Everything about FFIX is near and dear to my heart. For starters, it borrows elements from the previous Final Fantasy games as a means of returning to the old style in the face of the newer direction that the games were taking (VII, VIII). The art direction was meant to invoke a feeling of whimsy and fantasy that the gritty last two installments of the game had utterly lost. I believe it delivered on that fantastically.
The musical score of the game was utterly fantastic, and Nobuo Uematsu considers it his greatest achievement. He toured castles in Europe just to get a sense of the kind of feeling that he wanted the music in the game to invoke.
The characters and story in the game are also well done. You somehow manage to feel for everybody by the end of the game. It can be said that some of the characters don't get a whole lot of development (Amarant and Quina), but hell the game's long enough and they are not essential to the story. Zidane is one of my favorite characters, and he really only whines once after his entire existence is turned upside down. The story is also complex without being completely incomprehensible (in short: Terra eats worlds). The twist at the end is also not quite from nowhere: if you look up the game the twist is apparently foreshadowed.
The gameplay is also solid as far as Final Fantasies go. The ATB system works as it should and the method of learning abilities isn't too difficult, but is still complex enough that you can choose which abilities you have equipped in order optimize your characters for upcoming battles. Many points in the game are capable of delivering that "Nintendo Hard" feel, like Ozma, the very final boss, the mini-games (Tetra Master!), and the challenge of getting Excalibur II, which requires you beat nearly the whole game in 12 hours, meaning you have to open the disc cover in order to skip cutscenes.
Not perfect, but boy do I love it so.
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On January 31 2012 00:05 Stratos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 21:12 Ninja_Bread wrote:
I disagree with the OP... :/ I like the new RPGs, although I didn't play many older ones. What about these older RPGs makes them a ton better? (I realize it obviously isn't graphics or anything like that O_o)
How would you feel about a company re-releasing an older RPG with better graphics as a throwback? Dunno about the OP, but this is my reason...
DA2 is awful, but at least it offers some choices. (looking at you J"RP"Gs -_-)
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Lord_J
Kenya1085 Posts
The title of this blog really speaks to me, lol.
As for the lists, I think they're pretty complete for those two systems. You could play DQ5 and DQ6 on the SNES if you wanted to emulate and use a translated ROM, but if you're going to play them at this point you'll probably get a better experience playing their DS remakes. Handheld systems are definitely where it's at these days if you want games like those in the OP, even though a lot of it is recycled content.
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JRPGs aren't even RPGs.
Not to say they're all bad, but almost every game on the list in the OP is a JRPG and it offends my RPG sensibilities
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the hate for bioware.. I can agree on the mass effect, didn't like it at all but, NWN is one of my faves..
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I fully agree with you about 16bit/32bit-era RPG's being the best =) And while you have a great list there already, here are some further recommendations.
SNES:
Bahamut Lagoon
Live A Live
Rudra no Hihou (Treasure of the Rudras)
Star Ocean
The first three here are by Squaresoft, the last one is (ofc) the first game in the somewhat famous series. None of the games were released in the west, but all have been, properly, fan-translated.
PSX:
Alundra
Final Fantasy Tactics
Grandia
SaGa Frontier
SaGa Frontier II
Threads of Fate
Again, all of these apart from Alundra and Grandia are Squaresoft games. And FFT is a turn based strategy game, similar to the Tactics Ogre series, but it's very good and has a strong storyline.
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On January 31 2012 08:41 Gann1 wrote:JRPGs aren't even RPGs. Not to say they're all bad, but almost every game on the list in the OP is a JRPG and it offends my RPG sensibilities
this post hurts my brain
anyways i finally finished chrono trigger tonight
ill probably play final fantasy tactics next starting in a couple days
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49653 Posts
On February 02 2012 13:09 atmuh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 08:41 Gann1 wrote:JRPGs aren't even RPGs. Not to say they're all bad, but almost every game on the list in the OP is a JRPG and it offends my RPG sensibilities this post hurts my brain anyways i finally finished chrono trigger tonight ill probably play final fantasy tactics next starting in a couple days
good ol' FF Tactics, to me its better than most games from the main series.
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