Lol for some reason when I first read the title I thought you were going to rage about ghosts (i.e. spirits, Casper, the supernatural, etc.) So I was a little disappointed when I came to my senses. Nice rant though.

iamke55

United States2806 Posts

January 24 2012 22:12 GMT

#23

On January 25 2012 03:31 7mk wrote:
wah wah wah
youre making my race look whiny

Yeah seriously, we are supposed to be the manly race, descended from Reach himself. I blame Blizzard for making the zealot say "We cannot hold!" which is a whiny, but not a very manly, thing to say.

Steveling

Greece10806 Posts

January 24 2012 22:18 GMT

#24

I came here expecting to face metaphysical concerns and fears, anecdote pictures from 1889 and terrifying '' it happened '' stories. I was greatly dissapointed.

AnachronisticAnarchy

United States2957 Posts

January 24 2012 22:52 GMT

#25

On January 25 2012 06:47 mbr2321 wrote:

Show nested quote +

No they're not poorly designed units. They're fine. They have costs and benefits, just like every other unit. The term "poorly designed" pisses me off more than "imbalanced" does. Calling something "poorly designed" is balance whining and trying to avoid getting banned for balance whining. Especially in this context, the two terms are one in the same, so call it what it is.

Back to Ghosts. They don't have awe-inspiring speed. Chargelots, speedlings, mutas, and hellions have awe-inspiring speed. Ghosts can be classified as "not slow" at best. And how does their speed influence in any way how awesome or terrible their spells are? You would think the spells could speak for themselves. Ghosts aren't central to TvP. Cloaked Banshees to snipe HT is a tactic that, while much less popular, is no less viable.

I am talking about the spell's speed, not the unit. Insta-hit spells (and don't tell me psy storm is insta hit, psy storm is an aoe dot) with extreme range tend to lean towards either being an APM sink or incredibly OP, as at the higher levels (which is where most people look to for balance) missing is hard and people can react at the blink of an eye.
Think about it this way: a spell can be cast first and faster than any other spell. That spell cannot be equal to or greater than other spells in terms of power, otherwise it WILL be imbalanced, so it must be nerfed to a level that turns it into, if not an APM sink, then an innefficient spell.
Ghost spells can be cast first, will always inflict full damage upon hit and cannot be dodged. A sweet spot for spells like these are next to impossible to find in a game like starcraft, especially considering that the ghost's role in the terran army is vital, and thus changes to it directly effect the entire race.
Also, I'm not balance whining. I'm saying that the unit is unnecessarily difficult to balance and that better units can and should be put in its place. Frankly, I can't "whine" about balance until I am good enough that it legitimately starts affecting my play in a major way anyways.

Thaniri

1264 Posts

January 24 2012 23:16 GMT

#26

In my league, it is not uncommon for their to be FIVE layers of templar.

The have templar in the van, the rear, and the flanks, and also in reinforcement areas, waiting to get energy during the battle.

If you're doing this, and you still get all of your ghosts emp'ed, then its time to increase your game to the next level with warp prisms.

Tortious_Tortoise

United States944 Posts

January 24 2012 23:33 GMT

#27

On January 25 2012 07:12 iamke55 wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yeah seriously, we are supposed to be the manly race, descended from Reach himself. I blame Blizzard for making the zealot say "We cannot hold!" which is a whiny, but not a very manly, thing to say.

How about Ghosts, Marines, and Medics dying?

BLAAAARAAAGHOGOD

Folstag

20 Posts

January 25 2012 00:13 GMT

#28

I think the biggest problem with ghosts is that snipe and EMP have more range than feedback. This makes it so if a storm or feedback goes down it was the terran players bad.

GTPGlitch

5061 Posts

January 25 2012 00:17 GMT

#29

Alright, lets take it your way and do some direct comparisons

Muta harass! Let's defend with the ghost aoe-ohwait
Muta harass! Lets defend it with the HT aoe-huzzah!

avilo

United States4100 Posts

January 25 2012 00:51 GMT

#30

On January 25 2012 02:18 DJWilma wrote:
This blog is exactly what it says it is, I need to rage about Ghosts for a second. Ghosts in my opinion are the most over powered unit in the game. The fact that marines are the only anti-air unit that costs minerals besides queens is one thing, but they are easily destroyed. Same deal with mauraders. As you can probably tell I do still think the game isn't balanced, but it has come a long way, and the only adjustment I think is needed is the Ghost getting a major nerfing.

I began writing this as an analytical blog comparing the skills similar to those of the ghost, but most of you already know them too well, so I will just voice my issues about the Ghosts.

I recently had an with another Protoss player over this, him believing that HTs might be considered even better than Ghosts. Here is why he was wrong in my opinion. He said for one Storm is better than EMP, because it does so much damage. Yes, an EMP will not kill the opponents army, it will just cripple the spellcasters, and cut half the health of the army as well, and it eats archons for breakfast. Now I give it that blizzard made it less op with the radius nerf. But it still makes bad players look good, and win games. Plus if your paying attention, you can micro your way out of a storm. EMP, well that shit is instantaneous!

He also argued that HTs need to be slow, because if they were any faster they could just run up, kill an army, and run away. I mean his logic makes sense, Ghosts can't run up to a protoss army and EMP the fuck out of them and run away. No. They can do one better, they can fucking do it while invisible! Make HTs the same speed as Zealots, is there any really good fucking reason to make them so stupidly slow? Yeah they can turn into archons, but if your are in battle and you are losing the fight, you lose your high templar no matter what.

If Blizzard went the way of the Infestor, and limited the abilities you can use while invisible, aka, only nukes and attack, I would be fine with that. Than he said Feedback was really good. Yeah its good against things with energy, but has anyone seen late game TvZ? Every time I hear the casters shout "OH TEH SNIPES ARE GOING DOWN!" Because a zerg army can be fucking leveled with nothing but snipes. All and all his argument was that you have to baby the High Templar, like you do for any other spellcaster, but why does the HT have to be the slowest and have no way to escape? No invisibility, no burrow, just a speed of 1.875

I'm done ranting, my main issue is just the speed of the high templar, I mean protoss is really know for being immobile, can we play have one less thing holding us back?

Much luv

DJ Wilma

So, you're complaining about ghosts, but you have no problem with how infestors/broods currently are? If you're gonna complain than at least point out the imba stuff of each race imo

Also, i would try playing it from Terran's side and you'll realize ghosts are not as powerful as you are making them out because the snipes are limited.

You probably are not playing correctly vs lots of ghosts, as if you hit even 1 random money fungal on them you can wipe out 8-12 ghosts usually when you're using brood/infestor. The reason this is, is because single ghosts sniping doesn't do jack shiot, so Terrans that solely rely on mass ghost sniping (no good Terran does anymore) vs broods will have to have his ghosts very close together..

so yeah...Terrans used to learn ghosts and you are claiming imbalance. Every race has learned to use some lategame stuff, i don't think you realize how powerful brood/infestor/corruptor with tech switches really is though if you are QQing about ghosts !

Also, btw, ghosts are much more difficult to use than infestors/broods are

sooooo...no it doesn't make bad players look good...it makes good players look good.

rauk

United States2228 Posts

January 25 2012 01:17 GMT

#31

ghosts are the most difficult spell caster to use. both fungal and storm are spells that you don't really care where you shoot it off. as long as you hit their units, any units at all, you've gotten about the most you could have gotten out of your spell. with emp, if you don't hit the infestors or HT, the spell is not nearly as worth it. snipe and feedback are both difficult single target spells, but you can't feedback the same unit multiple times, whereas with snipe you have to spend a lot of apm r-clicking the same unit over and over in order to get all your snipes off. plus feedback is easier to use in general because ghosts and infestors are generally at the front of the army where they're pretty visible while you want to have your HT near the back so you can be sure of storming when terran isn't going to run away.

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