• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:20
CEST 15:20
KST 22:20
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway13
Community News
SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia7Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues23LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments3Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?39Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy What happened to Singapore/Brazil servers? SC4ALL: A North American StarCraft LAN
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia LANified! 37: Groundswell, BYOC LAN, Nov 28-30 2025 LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast
Brood War
General
ASL20 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ alas... i aint gon' lie to u bruh... BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro16 Group B Small VOD Thread 2.0 [ASL20] Ro16 Group A
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Borderlands 3 The PlayStation 5 Iron Harvest: 1920+
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1671 users

Mechanics and Success two totally dif things

Blogs > ohokurwrong
Post a Reply
ohokurwrong
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Brazil283 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-07 03:28:09
January 07 2012 02:51 GMT
#1
inspired from http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/f7e8j/seriously_guys_if_youre_in_platinum_or_below_your/

So basically this is more of a vent of frustration more then anything. Lately I have been watching some streams and the #1 thing i see are haters. Now haters/trolls are funny and unless someone is actually truly offended I rather enjoy reading what some of them have to say.

The #1 stream troll is "omg how are you so bad you are so and so"

this comes in all forms from calling artosis bad for stacking mins or calling a random pro terrible all the way down to the casual who happens to stream.

The #1 response from these people is "i dont have time to work on my mechanics"

I disagree with this. Anyone who learns sc2 can easily get at least low masters imo with sub 50 apm. Now 50 apm is very slow but i think what it basically allows for is your basic making of units and basic a move of units with room for bits of micro but nothing fancy. At 50 apm you can expect them to never do drops or harass and they dont react very quickly to things that might be avoidable if the reaction time of said player was only a bit faster. My proposition is simply this, I am willing to bet that I can play z or p arguably the 2 hardest races to defend as when compared to terran, (i think terran can be agreed upon as the ultimate defenders race and thus would make low apm defense easier as well as scouting easier) into masters league with 1 build per race and only macro and go tactics. I wont take fast 3rds or do crazy tech. if its zvp its going to be all roaches (hydras if he has voids) if its a pvt collosi or all chargelots and stalkers, no storms. Most important of all is that all my games will be macro

This was inspired from this guide on reddit about doing a similar style into diamond. now masters is most likely harder then this test was and i imagine protoss is the easiest race to get masters as (low masters its very hard to beat high masters gm as toss...) so i threw zerg into the mix to add to the challenge

I also think the timing of this could not be any better as recently people were giving goody shit about how he is so slow and bad at macro and still wins. By doing this I can also show the flaws in sc2 a bit. Someone who will be playing as slow as I am going to be playing, should never ever get masters.


So simply put what race do i pick?
Poll: What race

Zerg (7)
 
88%

Protoss (1)
 
13%

8 total votes

Your vote: What race

(Vote): Zerg
(Vote): Protoss



I will be using a fresh diamond account Purple 492 and hopefully proving that game knowledge alone can lead to the "highest" league a non pro should be in. It will be streamed and replays recorded


I should clarify I am already top masters this is a test not to see if I am good or anything, it's to see if bad mechanics are what is keeping you out of whatever league is your goal

*
lastshadow
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States1372 Posts
January 07 2012 02:57 GMT
#2
T/Z are the most mechanically demanding of all the races, Z if you abuse creepspread to its fullest, and T if you actually can control it's funky maneuvers that the race supports.

Having low apm isn't an excuse to accept it btw, get faster, anyway if you want to win more at your level, pick Protoss, if you actually want to get better/be a better player (for now anyway) pick Zerg.
Patience is a small price to pay for perfection.
ohokurwrong
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Brazil283 Posts
January 07 2012 03:01 GMT
#3
i dont plan on even spreading creep actually too much apm
lastshadow
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States1372 Posts
January 07 2012 03:02 GMT
#4
that's so lazy lol my god.
Patience is a small price to pay for perfection.
ohokurwrong
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Brazil283 Posts
January 07 2012 03:05 GMT
#5
i wana prove a point
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-07 03:28:54
January 07 2012 03:24 GMT
#6
I don't think you understand what mechanics mean. Mechanics =/= macro. Also, I don't understand how this is proving a point. You think you're good and that you're proving a point if you're able to get into masters? Of COURSE 1 build fits all will work up to masters on ladder. IT'S LADDER, you're playing completely different players every game. They don't know what build you're gonna do from the start or what you did the last 200 games. Let's see this work against someone actually pretty good in a bo11.

Also, MVP himself said that mechanics isn't about apm, but rather your hands being able to do what you're thinking. If you can manage to do that, then you're good to go.
ohokurwrong
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Brazil283 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-07 03:28:47
January 07 2012 03:26 GMT
#7
all im saying is that people tell me they have bad mechanics and cannot get out of said league.

im going to never spread creep hardly scout and just macro poorly but hopefully with the right units and goals in mind and see how far that takes me
DYEAlabaster
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Canada1009 Posts
January 07 2012 04:01 GMT
#8
So are you trying to prove that masters is a joke? That the threshold is too low? I don't quite get the point of this.

It's not about how fast you play, it's about how quickly you can do what you want to do.
ohokurwrong
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Brazil283 Posts
January 07 2012 04:03 GMT
#9
right and since in an RTS speed matters im going to not be fast
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
January 07 2012 05:11 GMT
#10
Good luck, in terms of your results, I hope you do poorly, but you have my support for trying.
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
imjorman
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States580 Posts
January 07 2012 05:45 GMT
#11
Did you make two threads of this really?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=301149
People who want power shouldn't have it.
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
January 07 2012 05:54 GMT
#12
This proves nothing if you just cheese, My friend easily got into master using only proxy 2gate, his average apm was about 15 for most games
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
ohokurwrong
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Brazil283 Posts
January 07 2012 06:47 GMT
#13
On January 07 2012 14:45 imjorman wrote:
Did you make two threads of this really?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=301149


it was a mistake to post it in blog when it was clearly strat

so ye sorry

no i wont cheese what...
Cham
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
797 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-07 08:16:01
January 07 2012 08:12 GMT
#14
From your posts I must really think that you know absolutely nothing about how this game works. If your main account is masters it truly proves that all you need is proper mechanics, because your thought process is incorrect in so many ways (from what I have learned to be the accepted "norm"). Even if it is just a test, I can't it see working.
ohokurwrong
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Brazil283 Posts
January 07 2012 09:46 GMT
#15
On January 07 2012 17:12 Cham wrote:
From your posts I must really think that you know absolutely nothing about how this game works. If your main account is masters it truly proves that all you need is proper mechanics, because your thought process is incorrect in so many ways (from what I have learned to be the accepted "norm"). Even if it is just a test, I can't it see working.


well tell this to idra who among others feel that builds in sc2 are far more important then other aspects of the game
him and other pros are quoted with saying how hard it is to defend builds that are just designed to beat whatever you are doing instantly especially if you hide what you are doing

but furthermore its a nice test to see what apm is actually needed to be a masters player. apm and mechanics go hand in hand. you cannot have good mechanics and 40 apm you just cant
-Kaiser-
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Canada932 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-07 11:06:06
January 07 2012 11:02 GMT
#16
On January 07 2012 18:46 ohokurwrong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2012 17:12 Cham wrote:
From your posts I must really think that you know absolutely nothing about how this game works. If your main account is masters it truly proves that all you need is proper mechanics, because your thought process is incorrect in so many ways (from what I have learned to be the accepted "norm"). Even if it is just a test, I can't it see working.


well tell this to idra who among others feel that builds in sc2 are far more important then other aspects of the game
him and other pros are quoted with saying how hard it is to defend builds that are just designed to beat whatever you are doing instantly especially if you hide what you are doing

but furthermore its a nice test to see what apm is actually needed to be a masters player. apm and mechanics go hand in hand. you cannot have good mechanics and 40 apm you just cant



Having good mechanics as zerg means having good larvae injects more than anything else. IdrA and other pros talk about builds being more important in SC2 than Brood War, but they're all playing above a certain threshold of mechanical skill.

It's like if a pilot tells you that the most important part about flying X airplane is how certain equipment behaves. He's assuming you know how to fly an airplane.

Your larvae injects with zerg are a direct translation into how many units you have. If your mechanics aren't good enough, you lose the game. At the absolute top level, you can't miss more than one inject for most of the game or you lose. It's as simple as that.

The idea that you plan to play this game with "only one build" and not do weird things like "take fast thirds" as Zerg really speaks volumes about how little you understand what you're talking about.
3 Hatch Before Cool
Nomag
Profile Joined March 2011
Sweden10 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-09 15:19:52
January 09 2012 15:15 GMT
#17
You should change the way you're thinking. Some say that you have bad mechanics and low apm and blablabla. instead of trying to get higher apm or improve your mechanics you and others just say that you can be good without them.
think they need more of a fighter or hard worker mentality.

however if you don't give a single crap about mechanics you have to make up for it with decisionmaking. For example know when to tech like crazy and when to take fast thirds like you said you wouldn't do.

I do agree with terran having the easiest time defending but terran (unless playing mech) almost NEEDS to be aggressive, with that comes the need of multitasking and good mechanics. But maybe that's off topic.

I don't really agree with your statements but i do support your way to achieve your goal
plasemeious
Profile Joined November 2009
United States244 Posts
January 09 2012 18:09 GMT
#18
I look forward to seeing you do this
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Kung Fu Cup
12:00
SC:EVO Monthly
SteadfastSC170
Rex106
Liquipedia
Online Event
12:00
Galaxy Open Cup Season 2
CranKy Ducklings132
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko264
SteadfastSC 170
Rex 106
SC2_NightMare 14
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 38004
Calm 13400
Bisu 2339
Jaedong 1571
EffOrt 859
Larva 616
Mini 534
firebathero 504
Shuttle 454
BeSt 377
[ Show more ]
Zeus 265
Snow 239
Soma 202
Soulkey 192
Hyuk 143
Rush 138
Light 117
Mong 116
Sexy 72
Sharp 69
sSak 56
ToSsGirL 51
Aegong 50
Noble 49
zelot 43
Movie 36
Sea.KH 34
scan(afreeca) 19
Bale 13
Icarus 13
NaDa 12
Terrorterran 10
Yoon 9
SilentControl 9
IntoTheRainbow 5
Dota 2
The International93517
Gorgc8044
PGG 19
Counter-Strike
Foxcn654
oskar168
flusha43
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox825
Westballz15
Other Games
gofns22462
tarik_tv14566
B2W.Neo677
olofmeister601
DeMusliM417
crisheroes271
Happy61
FunKaTv 26
ArmadaUGS23
Mew2King18
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick914
StarCraft 2
WardiTV265
StarCraft: Brood War
CasterMuse 21
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler52
Other Games
• Shiphtur66
Upcoming Events
BSL Team Wars
5h 40m
RSL Revival
20h 40m
Maestros of the Game
1d
ShoWTimE vs Classic
Clem vs herO
Serral vs Bunny
Reynor vs Zoun
Cosmonarchy
1d 2h
Bonyth vs Dewalt
[BSL 2025] Weekly
1d 4h
RSL Revival
1d 20h
Maestros of the Game
2 days
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Snow vs Sharp
Jaedong vs Mini
Wardi Open
2 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Light vs Speed
Larva vs Soma
LiuLi Cup
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Copa Latinoamericana 4
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Polish World Championship 2025
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.