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On January 08 2012 12:18 Fontong wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 10:43 Talin wrote:On January 08 2012 10:29 Fontong wrote:On January 08 2012 10:09 Talin wrote:
I did explain what I was trying to say in the rest of the post. -_- Well, it doesn't make much sense unfortuntely. Koreans had all the practice advantages in the world in BW and so had all the advantages in the games they played. This includes build orders and mechanics. How is that even relevant though? The external factors don't really matter to this topic at all. The important thing is that when you put a player with (foreign) amateur level mechanics against a player with progamer level mechanics, the former will simply not win. More importantly, even if he somehow does snatch one win in a blue moon, he certainly won't win continuously, no matter how brilliant his builds and strategies may be. Besides, if you don't like the comparsion to foreigners, consider Boxer and Nal_rA past their prime. They didn't fall off the top because they stopped being smart or because younger players suddenly got smarter - they fell behind because they couldn't keep up with players that were becoming too good for them. I'm still not getting your comparisons. You are comparing amateur mechanics to pro mechanics and pros at the tail end of their career to pros at their prime. Goody is a pro playing pros and is presumably not out of his prime by any means, especially since the SC2 proscene is so new.
But that's the whole point. The comparisons you made were between players on a fairly similar (and extremely high) skill level, which is why they do not apply here.
The comparisons I'm making illustrate the kind of skill gap that CAN be overcome in SC2 by having a better strategy, fairly regularly even. Plenty of players (not just Goody) play sloppy, unrefined, can't multitask at all, and STILL have continued success, manage to beat some of the best players in the world and have a shot at winning against anyone.
They might be progamers in SC2 terms, but that doesn't mean they have progamer level mechanics. Some of them were BW players, and are now making way more mistakes than they did while they were playing BW as amateurs simply because the game doesn't allow better players to punish them hard enough for it. And we're talking about really, really basic stuff here (supply blocks, production cycles while being under no pressure at all). When it comes to things like map awareness and doing more than 1 thing at the time that isn't on a single hotkey, it's even worse.
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On January 08 2012 18:08 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 12:18 Fontong wrote:On January 08 2012 10:43 Talin wrote:On January 08 2012 10:29 Fontong wrote:On January 08 2012 10:09 Talin wrote:
I did explain what I was trying to say in the rest of the post. -_- Well, it doesn't make much sense unfortuntely. Koreans had all the practice advantages in the world in BW and so had all the advantages in the games they played. This includes build orders and mechanics. How is that even relevant though? The external factors don't really matter to this topic at all. The important thing is that when you put a player with (foreign) amateur level mechanics against a player with progamer level mechanics, the former will simply not win. More importantly, even if he somehow does snatch one win in a blue moon, he certainly won't win continuously, no matter how brilliant his builds and strategies may be. Besides, if you don't like the comparsion to foreigners, consider Boxer and Nal_rA past their prime. They didn't fall off the top because they stopped being smart or because younger players suddenly got smarter - they fell behind because they couldn't keep up with players that were becoming too good for them. I'm still not getting your comparisons. You are comparing amateur mechanics to pro mechanics and pros at the tail end of their career to pros at their prime. Goody is a pro playing pros and is presumably not out of his prime by any means, especially since the SC2 proscene is so new. But that's the whole point. The comparisons you made were between players on a fairly similar (and extremely high) skill level, which is why they do not apply here. The comparisons I'm making illustrate the kind of skill gap that CAN be overcome in SC2 by having a better strategy, fairly regularly even. Plenty of players (not just Goody) play sloppy, unrefined, can't multitask at all, and STILL have continued success, manage to beat some of the best players in the world and have a shot at winning against anyone. They might be progamers in SC2 terms, but that doesn't mean they have progamer level mechanics. Some of them were BW players, and are now making way more mistakes than they did while they were playing BW as amateurs simply because the game doesn't allow better players to punish them hard enough for it. And we're talking about really, really basic stuff here (supply blocks, production cycles while being under no pressure at all). When it comes to things like map awareness and doing more than 1 thing at the time that isn't on a single hotkey, it's even worse.
I don't understand your point. GoOdy was good in BW and now he is good in SC2. That mechanics doesnt mean everything shows only that the game is complex and this is a good thing in my eyes. If you only try to become a computer ai by training mechanics over and over again, that would be boaring. For you skill = mechanics, if that where the case for SC2 I would immediately stop playing and watching.
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On a side-note: Shouldn't we all be happy that someone like Goody exists? I like the fact that there's a really unique player who continuously stays in the scene.
And somehow I get the feeling that many here overlook the fact that other players don't have perfect macro either.
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On January 09 2012 00:02 AMaidensWrath wrote:
On a side-note: Shouldn't we all be happy that someone like Goody exists? I like the fact that there's a really unique player who continuously stays in the scene.
And somehow I get the feeling that many here overlook the fact that other players don't have perfect macro either.
100% agree.
I love so much watching Goody because he's unique, his style is unique. All other players are doing the same stuff, except him.You can watch Kas or Thorzain or Happy and it's always pretty much the same stuff.
Goody is so strong because he's playing unexpected builds, and his micro is just insane : watch his stream and you'll see how he never looses a single unit !!
I think other pros are just jealous because Goody is so strong with little apm and always getting supply block 2min long each game... Also people think that Mech is easy to play, but why don't they do it ??
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GoOdy won a map of JYP with Bio. Deal with it, GoOdy is good.
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EPT
