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The past few days, I have been thinking of all kinds of things, including culture, what it means to be human, the extent of moral relativism, and why books are so... great. This is my thought process:
|| Comparing to other types of media. Have you ever played a video game which immersed you? To the extent that you were not aware of the real world? I have not. Even through the most immersive games, which for me are probably the ezio-era assassins creed games, I was constantly aware that I was on the outside looking in. Video games are simply not up to the standard, yet.
Films are definitely more immersive. For an hour or two, they can make the lines between story and reality fuzzy. Especially the more recent films, with less "unrealism" to break the 4th wall. However, their problem is more to do with the physicality of it. Films are currently unsuitable for viewing for much longer than 2 hours. The cinema setting is the best for immersion, but also the worst as you are surrounded by other people. With greater technology, films will start to be as good as books.
Music is certainly an abstract way of telling a story. Often, the best musical stories are not told literally, but are more open to imagination, just like a book. It takes more, for me anyway, to become immersed in music, than a book, or even a film. But it can certainly happen. Furthermore, listening to music needs no special environment, and very cheap apparatus. It's good, but not quite as good as a book.
|| Why is immersion good? To make myself clear, I mean it as the process in which you detach from reality, and the medium of the story becomes your temporary reality. Some people would say that it's just good to forget about this world, maybe adding that "it's a bad place". But that's surely pessimism. The more I thought about it, the more I realised that I don't know why immersion was good. I just know that it's something that I want my media to give me.
|| More tangible benefits of books. I personally think that having a child read, and learn to enjoy reading, is by far the best thing for their cognitive development. Reading after all is just (structured) imagination, and that can be had without books. But they make it inevitable. I know that the more I read in the past, the cleverer I would feel in comparison to my peers.
So.. anybody feel differently? I know that some people just don't like books. It confuses me, so I would definitely like to hear about it.
tl;dr read books, make your kids read books
 
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Have you ever played a video game which immersed you? To the extent that you were not aware of the real world? I have not.
I hope this isn't the crux of your argument. I mean... I have.
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I don't like reading "long" books, I find it hard to concentrate or to feel immersed to them at all. I will eventually get bored and lose interest almost instantly.
I do enjoy shorter types of literature, "Candide" by Voltaire is the first that comes to mind.
Anyways, I actually think that it actually depends on the person, somebody might feel more immersed while watching "Metropolis", others will feel immersed by playing any Elder Scrolls game and others will feel immersed while listening to their favourite Album.
There are a ton of things I would like to say but I simply can't find a way to articulate it in an understandable way 
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I've definitely slipped into the world of Morrowind more than I care to admit. I'd say on some levels it's even more immersive than a movie or book because you are personally controlling the action.
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Books are good. Very good. Books can do things that movies, music, and games cannot. There are also things which movies, music and games can do which books cannot. I don't know if immersion is the word I would use. I think all those mediums are capable of telling an incredible story. A movie can show you colours and music at the same time in a way that a book never could, and thru that create an incredible meaning. Likewise, a book forces you to use your imagination, creates meaningful ambiguities and choices that a movie can't. There is fun that can be had with words that is limited in a movie.
Yet, to defend books, I would say that of all mediums it has the greatest collection of truly incredible works. Movies are young. If you love movies you'll watch all the good ones and eventually have to tolerate mediocrity and cliches. If you read just books it's doubtful you'll live long enough to read all that the greatest literature has to offer...
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Yeah I don't know. I like reading but it's just about the least immersive experience for me. Turning pages and the left-to-right and up-down motion of reading breaks it all for me.
Seems subjective to me. Immersion and "getting detached from the world" or whatever - it just isn't my cup of tea. I mean, I guess it can be good but that's not how I would judge a media.
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On December 30 2011 06:05 ZaplinG wrote:
I've definitely slipped into the world of Morrowind more than I care to admit. I'd say on some levels it's even more immersive than a movie or book because you are personally controlling the action.
That's another story.. ahem... altogether. The second aspect of my love of reading is that I have to interpret the author's words, and not change them. That's why playing a game is more fun. But it has never been immersive, or even emotional for me.
Maybe this has something to do with different styles of learning? i.e learning by doing, by seeing, by hearing etc?
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Have you played F.E.A.R. or Amnesia?
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I love books. Currently I am reading His Dark Materials: The Subtle Knife. Found myself reading 80 pages in what felt for me, like 2 minuttes. I came in this trance like state, where It didn't feel like I was reading, it felt like there was a story told and shown before me in my head. Books are epic and when you read you can be caught in this trance like state where you are in your own universe. If you don't read already, try finding a book you find interesting and then read it. If you still don't like reading, don't. People are mostly lazy when it comes to reading, considering movies take a lot shorter to experience.
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That's how I feel too. I have read for 10 hours straight before, not even realising that time passed. Unfortunately, it means that an 800 page £15 book lasts two days at most...
On December 30 2011 06:26 Ghostcom wrote:
Have you played F.E.A.R. or Amnesia?
Nope
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|| Comparing to other types of media. Have you ever played a video game which immersed you? To the extent that you were not aware of the real world?
Starcraft 2, almost every day ^^? When people talk to me I don't even notice them because i'm so focused.
But yeah, books are awesome, I read alot too 
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On December 30 2011 06:48 Tomazi wrote:That's how I feel too. I have read for 10 hours straight before, not even realising that time passed. Unfortunately, it means that an 800 page £15 book lasts two days at most... Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 06:26 Ghostcom wrote:
Have you played F.E.A.R. or Amnesia? Nope
I dare you to play those 2 games (Amnesia being the must-play of the 2) and tell me that games can't make you forget the world around you - ideally you should play it late evening/night when it is dark without any lights on.
But overall I think you are correct - I also enjoy books a great deal more than games, though I have to read it in paperform and not some electronic format.
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Papua New Guinea1058 Posts
Is there really a point in debating wether books are good or not? Isn't it obvious?
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How can I read free books and.... which do you recommend.. .and....
I want to know about existentialism and drug pop culture and human behavior. ..
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The half-life series always immersed me completely. Dat feeling during my first playthrough of HL2...
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Hahahaha
You read a book and you experience one thing: the text.
You watch a movie and you are experiencing music, sights, voices, possibly subtitles.
How can you even compare an obsolete media like books to films or video games? It sounds like you just hate new things and prefer the simpler things. Lots of people hate new, more complex things I guess but it is a problem, not something to brag about.
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I would normally reply, but there generally needs to be some kind of mutual respect between debatists.
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Books are ok for the most part. I just prefer video games to reading usually because I can get more immersed in it.
Video games can be very immersive. Couple months ago I played through Penumbra: Black Plague in the dark with headphones. I have never had a movie or book come close to scaring me as much as that.
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I have played games that felt as in depth and immersed? as you feel about books. I believe this is simply a problem you have (and many people most likely) due to being used to one medium (books) and not being able to immerse yourself in another.
I disagree with your idea of immersion. I don't think it necessary at all to be honest. My experiences and thoughts in this "world" are what give context and appreciation for what I read. I can never truly become immersed in a book anymore then I could forget who I am in reality. This may be good for you, but I think it could lead to your problems with other types of media that you struggle to immerse yourself in. You lose appreciation for Art, Music, and other mediums because you cannot do the same thing with them, that you do with books.
I also think that the written word is very difficult to understand which is why I think books can be difficult to understand on a truly fundamental level (as far as what the author was trying to convey). If you cannot understand what the author is saying completely, then you will always have something lost in translation that prevents true immersion (in my opinion at least).
I don't know what moral relativism has to do with reading though. I think that moral relativism is a lazy attempt at a solution to the problem of human morality across cultures and through time and I don't put any real stock into it (that is to say, I don't think morality is a dependent of your society and cultural beliefs and practices)
P.S. I may have appeared that I don't like reading or think it shouldn't be done a lot. This is not the case if it looks that way. I read a lot and am always encouraging others to do so, this was just my thoughts on the whole idea of immersion through different mediums.
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EPT
