• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:45
CEST 04:45
KST 11:45
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview9[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9
Community News
Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?25Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris46Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!15Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw? Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Monday Nights Weeklies LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments 🏆 GTL Season 2 – StarCraft II Team League
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion ASL20 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ No Rain in ASL20? Starcraft at lower levels TvP
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Is there English video for group selection for ASL [ASL20] Ro24 Group F [IPSL] CSLAN Review and CSLPRO Reimagined!
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum Teeworlds - online game General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
How Culture and Conflict Imp…
TrAiDoS
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3748 users

'War is Hell' - Page 2

Blogs > Bobo_XIII
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
ozeake
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland48 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-26 02:20:50
December 26 2011 02:19 GMT
#21
On December 26 2011 10:15 Newbistic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 26 2011 10:01 ozeake wrote:
On December 26 2011 09:08 Newbistic wrote:
Irony


What is, the fact that people who want to kill other people seek places where they get to do so with impunity? It's the same as politics: those who most desire power should really not have it.


No, the irony is from calling soldiers who potentially fight front-line battles cowards and being amused by "tough talk" while hiding behind his own computer doing his own "tough talk".

While your point may have some philosophical truth, it's pragmatically irrelevant. People who desire something will work to earn it. Those who work the most towards their desires will have the highest chance of obtaining what they desire. Whether or not these people "should have it" does not factor into the equation since there's no real way to determine who else is better qualified.

Also, think about the motivations of these people. They're not all insane psychopaths who just wish to kill anybody with impunity as you seem to be implying. They wish to do something for their country, and that something happens to involve killing the enemies of their country. Most accounts I've read of soldiers describe how they become transformed through the horrors of warfare and realizing how they underestimated what they signed up for. This is just their difficult path to adulthood.


I'd ask that you don't lump me in with other people's words, I did not call them "cowards" at any point. Most of them are probably not psychopaths, but that does leave some who are.
As for qualifications: not being a psychopath strikes me as a very important one. Doesn't matter how accurate you can be with a gun if your motivations for using it are not "professional" (can't think of a better fitting word for it but I hope you get what I mean). Those people should not be allowed to have anything to do with weapons.

It's like this: would you trust a surgeon who operates on people not so much because it is his profession but because he enjoys cutting people up?
Ignorance is the shield of a fool.
Newbistic
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
China2912 Posts
December 26 2011 02:43 GMT
#22
Trust has nothing to do with it. Being good at your job is really all that matters in the end. It's possible for a surgeon to be extremely good at his job when his real motivation is that he enjoys cutting people up. It is also possible for a surgeon to have a very strong desire to help people, but actually be terrible at his job.

Same with soldiers. A good soldier is only really quantified by his marksmanship, his ability to follow orders, and his ability to fight as part of his squad. If his motivations affect these qualities in any way (disobedience, shooting civilians, hostility towards fellow soldiers), then he's not a good soldier. The underlying motivations whether it be enjoying killing things or patriotism doesn't factor in unless it physically manifests itself in a tangible way.

Motivations or personal morality are more about self-growth and self-discovery. For the most part society doesn't care about how or why you get somewhere, only that you got there.
Logic is Overrated
ozeake
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland48 Posts
December 26 2011 03:01 GMT
#23
On December 26 2011 11:43 Newbistic wrote:
Same with soldiers. A good soldier is only really quantified by his marksmanship, his ability to follow orders, and his ability to fight as part of his squad. If his motivations affect these qualities in any way (disobedience, shooting civilians, hostility towards fellow soldiers), then he's not a good soldier. The underlying motivations whether it be enjoying killing things or patriotism doesn't factor in unless it physically manifests itself in a tangible way.


I think this is the point of contention here: I'm saying the motivations do show and not in minor ways either.
As an example, the whole Abu Ghraib mess. If the whole chain of command was filled with people who had the view of "being a soldier is an unpleasant but a necessary job" and not something like "I enjoy causing suffering", would it have happened in the first place?
The military has some fucked up people in it and they are not being kept on a short enough leash.
Ignorance is the shield of a fool.
Newbistic
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
China2912 Posts
December 26 2011 03:08 GMT
#24
How would you propose going about weeding out these fucked up people before they get to where they are, then?
Logic is Overrated
ozeake
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland48 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-26 03:19:31
December 26 2011 03:19 GMT
#25
Psychological testing perhaps? I don't know how thoroughly they are screened at recruiting but whatever they are doing, it is not effective enough.
Ignorance is the shield of a fool.
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Monday
00:00
#47
SteadfastSC258
CranKy Ducklings154
EnkiAlexander 89
rockletztv 38
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft268
SteadfastSC 258
Nina 164
RuFF_SC2 100
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 794
sSak 143
NaDa 39
Purpose 14
Icarus 7
Terrorterran 7
yabsab 5
Dota 2
monkeys_forever1186
League of Legends
Cuddl3bear2
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K208
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox448
Other Games
summit1g6660
tarik_tv6359
shahzam713
C9.Mang0484
ViBE246
Maynarde187
Trikslyr102
Mew2King55
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1224
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Scarra1193
Upcoming Events
LiuLi Cup
8h 15m
Replay Cast
21h 15m
The PondCast
1d 7h
RSL Revival
1d 7h
Maru vs SHIN
MaNa vs MaxPax
Maestros of the Game
1d 14h
OSC
2 days
MaNa vs SHIN
SKillous vs ShoWTimE
Bunny vs TBD
Cham vs TBD
RSL Revival
2 days
Reynor vs Astrea
Classic vs sOs
Maestros of the Game
2 days
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
3 days
GuMiho vs Cham
ByuN vs TriGGeR
Cosmonarchy
3 days
TriGGeR vs YoungYakov
YoungYakov vs HonMonO
HonMonO vs TriGGeR
Maestros of the Game
3 days
[BSL 2025] Weekly
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Cure vs Bunny
Creator vs Zoun
Maestros of the Game
4 days
BSL Team Wars
4 days
Team Hawk vs Team Sziky
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
Maestros of the Game
Sisters' Call Cup
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

LASL Season 20
2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
EC S1
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
Skyesports Masters 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.