• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:04
CEST 12:04
KST 19:04
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview7TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection5Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2
Community News
[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June1Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th151Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League6
StarCraft 2
General
SurgeHack Recovery Experts Saved My Business. TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview What kind of tool would you be interested in? Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum
Brood War
General
[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June FlaSh's ASL S21 Finals Review BW animated web series: seeking contributors 25 Years Since Brood War Patch 1.08 FlaShFTW vs A.Alm Grudge Match Event
Tourneys
[BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST [ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Dating: How's your luck? Russo-Ukrainian War Thread How cold is too cold to be outdoors?
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Esportsmanship: How to NOT B…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8163 users

'War is Hell' - Page 2

Blogs > Bobo_XIII
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
ozeake
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland48 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-26 02:20:50
December 26 2011 02:19 GMT
#21
On December 26 2011 10:15 Newbistic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 26 2011 10:01 ozeake wrote:
On December 26 2011 09:08 Newbistic wrote:
Irony


What is, the fact that people who want to kill other people seek places where they get to do so with impunity? It's the same as politics: those who most desire power should really not have it.


No, the irony is from calling soldiers who potentially fight front-line battles cowards and being amused by "tough talk" while hiding behind his own computer doing his own "tough talk".

While your point may have some philosophical truth, it's pragmatically irrelevant. People who desire something will work to earn it. Those who work the most towards their desires will have the highest chance of obtaining what they desire. Whether or not these people "should have it" does not factor into the equation since there's no real way to determine who else is better qualified.

Also, think about the motivations of these people. They're not all insane psychopaths who just wish to kill anybody with impunity as you seem to be implying. They wish to do something for their country, and that something happens to involve killing the enemies of their country. Most accounts I've read of soldiers describe how they become transformed through the horrors of warfare and realizing how they underestimated what they signed up for. This is just their difficult path to adulthood.


I'd ask that you don't lump me in with other people's words, I did not call them "cowards" at any point. Most of them are probably not psychopaths, but that does leave some who are.
As for qualifications: not being a psychopath strikes me as a very important one. Doesn't matter how accurate you can be with a gun if your motivations for using it are not "professional" (can't think of a better fitting word for it but I hope you get what I mean). Those people should not be allowed to have anything to do with weapons.

It's like this: would you trust a surgeon who operates on people not so much because it is his profession but because he enjoys cutting people up?
Ignorance is the shield of a fool.
Newbistic
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
China2912 Posts
December 26 2011 02:43 GMT
#22
Trust has nothing to do with it. Being good at your job is really all that matters in the end. It's possible for a surgeon to be extremely good at his job when his real motivation is that he enjoys cutting people up. It is also possible for a surgeon to have a very strong desire to help people, but actually be terrible at his job.

Same with soldiers. A good soldier is only really quantified by his marksmanship, his ability to follow orders, and his ability to fight as part of his squad. If his motivations affect these qualities in any way (disobedience, shooting civilians, hostility towards fellow soldiers), then he's not a good soldier. The underlying motivations whether it be enjoying killing things or patriotism doesn't factor in unless it physically manifests itself in a tangible way.

Motivations or personal morality are more about self-growth and self-discovery. For the most part society doesn't care about how or why you get somewhere, only that you got there.
Logic is Overrated
ozeake
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland48 Posts
December 26 2011 03:01 GMT
#23
On December 26 2011 11:43 Newbistic wrote:
Same with soldiers. A good soldier is only really quantified by his marksmanship, his ability to follow orders, and his ability to fight as part of his squad. If his motivations affect these qualities in any way (disobedience, shooting civilians, hostility towards fellow soldiers), then he's not a good soldier. The underlying motivations whether it be enjoying killing things or patriotism doesn't factor in unless it physically manifests itself in a tangible way.


I think this is the point of contention here: I'm saying the motivations do show and not in minor ways either.
As an example, the whole Abu Ghraib mess. If the whole chain of command was filled with people who had the view of "being a soldier is an unpleasant but a necessary job" and not something like "I enjoy causing suffering", would it have happened in the first place?
The military has some fucked up people in it and they are not being kept on a short enough leash.
Ignorance is the shield of a fool.
Newbistic
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
China2912 Posts
December 26 2011 03:08 GMT
#24
How would you propose going about weeding out these fucked up people before they get to where they are, then?
Logic is Overrated
ozeake
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland48 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-26 03:19:31
December 26 2011 03:19 GMT
#25
Psychological testing perhaps? I don't know how thoroughly they are screened at recruiting but whatever they are doing, it is not effective enough.
Ignorance is the shield of a fool.
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 56m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 8199
Killer 1512
Hyuk 831
Mong 521
Pusan 320
EffOrt 251
actioN 236
Larva 225
Mini 206
Jaedong 145
[ Show more ]
Rush 132
Zeus 121
Leta 93
Hm[arnc] 85
ggaemo 52
scan(afreeca) 52
JulyZerg 45
ToSsGirL 39
Shine 33
Sharp 32
yabsab 30
NotJumperer 20
Light 20
sorry 19
Sacsri 14
GoRush 13
zelot 13
Barracks 13
910 0
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1914
shoxiejesuss832
markeloff1
Other Games
WinterStarcraft866
crisheroes218
Mew2King97
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick759
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 57
lovetv 13
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 34
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 6
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2027
• Jankos1616
• Rush988
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
56m
Monday Night Weeklies
5h 56m
Replay Cast
13h 56m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
23h 56m
Replay Cast
1d 22h
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Maestros of the Game
2 days
Classic vs Lambo
Clem vs Maru
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
Maestros of the Game
3 days
Serral vs Rogue
herO vs SHIN
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 22
2026 GSL S2
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Heroes Pulsing #3
Heroes Pulsing #2
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.