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'War is Hell' - Page 2

Blogs > Bobo_XIII
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ozeake
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland48 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-26 02:20:50
December 26 2011 02:19 GMT
#21
On December 26 2011 10:15 Newbistic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 26 2011 10:01 ozeake wrote:
On December 26 2011 09:08 Newbistic wrote:
Irony


What is, the fact that people who want to kill other people seek places where they get to do so with impunity? It's the same as politics: those who most desire power should really not have it.


No, the irony is from calling soldiers who potentially fight front-line battles cowards and being amused by "tough talk" while hiding behind his own computer doing his own "tough talk".

While your point may have some philosophical truth, it's pragmatically irrelevant. People who desire something will work to earn it. Those who work the most towards their desires will have the highest chance of obtaining what they desire. Whether or not these people "should have it" does not factor into the equation since there's no real way to determine who else is better qualified.

Also, think about the motivations of these people. They're not all insane psychopaths who just wish to kill anybody with impunity as you seem to be implying. They wish to do something for their country, and that something happens to involve killing the enemies of their country. Most accounts I've read of soldiers describe how they become transformed through the horrors of warfare and realizing how they underestimated what they signed up for. This is just their difficult path to adulthood.


I'd ask that you don't lump me in with other people's words, I did not call them "cowards" at any point. Most of them are probably not psychopaths, but that does leave some who are.
As for qualifications: not being a psychopath strikes me as a very important one. Doesn't matter how accurate you can be with a gun if your motivations for using it are not "professional" (can't think of a better fitting word for it but I hope you get what I mean). Those people should not be allowed to have anything to do with weapons.

It's like this: would you trust a surgeon who operates on people not so much because it is his profession but because he enjoys cutting people up?
Ignorance is the shield of a fool.
Newbistic
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
China2912 Posts
December 26 2011 02:43 GMT
#22
Trust has nothing to do with it. Being good at your job is really all that matters in the end. It's possible for a surgeon to be extremely good at his job when his real motivation is that he enjoys cutting people up. It is also possible for a surgeon to have a very strong desire to help people, but actually be terrible at his job.

Same with soldiers. A good soldier is only really quantified by his marksmanship, his ability to follow orders, and his ability to fight as part of his squad. If his motivations affect these qualities in any way (disobedience, shooting civilians, hostility towards fellow soldiers), then he's not a good soldier. The underlying motivations whether it be enjoying killing things or patriotism doesn't factor in unless it physically manifests itself in a tangible way.

Motivations or personal morality are more about self-growth and self-discovery. For the most part society doesn't care about how or why you get somewhere, only that you got there.
Logic is Overrated
ozeake
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland48 Posts
December 26 2011 03:01 GMT
#23
On December 26 2011 11:43 Newbistic wrote:
Same with soldiers. A good soldier is only really quantified by his marksmanship, his ability to follow orders, and his ability to fight as part of his squad. If his motivations affect these qualities in any way (disobedience, shooting civilians, hostility towards fellow soldiers), then he's not a good soldier. The underlying motivations whether it be enjoying killing things or patriotism doesn't factor in unless it physically manifests itself in a tangible way.


I think this is the point of contention here: I'm saying the motivations do show and not in minor ways either.
As an example, the whole Abu Ghraib mess. If the whole chain of command was filled with people who had the view of "being a soldier is an unpleasant but a necessary job" and not something like "I enjoy causing suffering", would it have happened in the first place?
The military has some fucked up people in it and they are not being kept on a short enough leash.
Ignorance is the shield of a fool.
Newbistic
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
China2912 Posts
December 26 2011 03:08 GMT
#24
How would you propose going about weeding out these fucked up people before they get to where they are, then?
Logic is Overrated
ozeake
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland48 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-26 03:19:31
December 26 2011 03:19 GMT
#25
Psychological testing perhaps? I don't know how thoroughly they are screened at recruiting but whatever they are doing, it is not effective enough.
Ignorance is the shield of a fool.
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