Stop trying to awaken the dead. Quake is dead, all these weird efforts by Slasher/2gd are silly. It's not fun to watch, it's not going to make a recovery. Have you seen how quake looks on stream? The Textures? Its a mess. It won't EVER be popular again and neither will this idea of 1v1 FPS deathmatch. It's just not interesting or fun to watch. Plus the genre is basically dead.
Please stop with these quake halftime shows, quake mixed tournaments its just sad to see.
Sometimes you have to walk away from the dead horse and not try to ride it for the next 5 years.
Just a personal blog, I just think it's silly to imagine a 1v1 deathmatch fps taking off anytime soon. Tribes died (ignore the F2P crapfest) a long time ago and you dont see random people running tribes + (insert popular game / event) here events so people can watch and say "wow that old graphically horrible looking game looks like it was interesting 10 years ago, now when will day9 tell me to do the fusion core dance and shout excitedly to entertain me?"
quake is incredibly fun to watch. it looks great. it may not be popular again. 1v1 fps is a great play mode. it's interesting and fun to watch. you simply don't understand what map control and timing means when it comes to quake.
On December 20 2011 22:41 Boblion wrote: Watching anti mage farming for 40+ minutes in Dota2 or the typical 7 minutes pvp Sc2 is totally better than a rapha vs cooler.
Yes but one set is relevant
the other is nostalgia
I mean when is the next "quake-like" game coming out? I thought quake live failed a few years ago?
Quake is incredible fun to watch and I'm not even a shooter fan. Its a shame it is "dead". Broodwar has been 'dead' for thousands of years now and its still being played and there are still money tournaments.
Well, in my opinion Quake is incredibly fun to watch. I went to QuakeCon earlier in the year, and the atmosphere there was incredibly. If the everyone agrees with you, then it will die. But obviously everyone doesn't. So if you don't like watching it just avoid it in the future, and then you won't have any issues!
On December 20 2011 22:45 mavsfan0041 wrote: Well, in my opinion Quake is incredibly fun to watch. I went to QuakeCon earlier in the year, and the atmosphere there was incredibly. If the everyone agrees with you, then it will die. But obviously everyone doesn't. So if you don't like watching it just avoid it in the future, and then you won't have any issues!
It's cool there are niche hype events but I dont see the "ram it down gullets, halftime show time!" doing anything besides annoy people.
maybe a "SF4" might come out someday although I doubt it as quake really is a dead brand imo.
On December 20 2011 22:37 dacthehork wrote: Stop trying to awaken the dead. Quake is dead, all these weird efforts by Slasher/2gd are silly. It's not fun to watch, it's not going to make a recovery. Have you seen how quake looks on stream? The Textures? Its a mess. It won't EVER be popular again and neither will this idea of 1v1 FPS deathmatch. It's just not interesting or fun to watch. Plus the genre is basically dead.
Please stop with these quake halftime shows, quake mixed tournaments its just sad to see.
Sometimes you have to walk away from the dead horse and not try to ride it for the next 5 years.
Just a personal blog, I just think it's silly to imagine a 1v1 deathmatch fps taking off anytime soon. Tribes died (ignore the F2P crapfest) a long time ago and you dont see random people running tribes + (insert popular game / event) here events so people can watch and say "wow that old graphically horrible looking game looks like it was interesting 10 years ago, now when will day9 tell me to do the fusion core dance and shout excitedly to entertain me?"
Why do you even care? If you want it to die so bad then stop watching and giving it one extra viewer. Slasher/2gd are entitled to cover what they damn well please, as is anyone entitled to play any game/watch any game/host any tournament they want.
Quake is like BW, it does not really die only because there are more shiny things out now - and I say that not even playing Quake and BW anymore for many years - but looking back in the context when they came out, they pretty much re-defined a whole genre. There is nothing wrong with nostalgia in gaming.
On December 20 2011 22:45 mavsfan0041 wrote: Well, in my opinion Quake is incredibly fun to watch. I went to QuakeCon earlier in the year, and the atmosphere there was incredibly. If the everyone agrees with you, then it will die. But obviously everyone doesn't. So if you don't like watching it just avoid it in the future, and then you won't have any issues!
It's cool there are niche hype events but I dont see the "ram it down gullets, halftime show time!" doing anything besides annoy people.
maybe a "SF4" might come out someday although I doubt it as quake really is a dead brand imo.
I can't remember it happening in the middle of an otherwise SC2 event except at Dreamhack, so it's hardly a trend. This happens more with HoN/LoL, and I think those are both far less entertaining.
On December 20 2011 22:37 dacthehork wrote: Stop trying to awaken the dead. Quake is dead, all these weird efforts by Slasher/2gd are silly. It's not fun to watch, it's not going to make a recovery. Have you seen how quake looks on stream? The Textures? Its a mess. It won't EVER be popular again and neither will this idea of 1v1 FPS deathmatch. It's just not interesting or fun to watch. Plus the genre is basically dead.
Please stop with these quake halftime shows, quake mixed tournaments its just sad to see.
Sometimes you have to walk away from the dead horse and not try to ride it for the next 5 years.
Just a personal blog, I just think it's silly to imagine a 1v1 deathmatch fps taking off anytime soon. Tribes died (ignore the F2P crapfest) a long time ago and you dont see random people running tribes + (insert popular game / event) here events so people can watch and say "wow that old graphically horrible looking game looks like it was interesting 10 years ago, now when will day9 tell me to do the fusion core dance and shout excitedly to entertain me?"
Why do you even care? If you want it to die so bad then stop watching and giving it one extra viewer. Slasher/2gd are entitled to cover what they damn well please, as is anyone entitled to play any game/watch any game/host any tournament they want.
i started playing only few months ago and it is one of my favourite games to watch and play. You not liking it is not enough of a reason for people who have fun with the game to stop doing so.
If you think a game is dead, keep it to yourself and let the rest of the people who enjoy it enjoy it. You are not the center of the universe and what you think is only relevant to yourself.
Interesting blog post. No arguments, no new point of view, not funny, nothing. You just vomited a random post full of hate and disrespect against people trying hard to preserve what they love. Why? Is this a concealed cry for help?
oddly enough.. I have to thank the person who wrote the OP... you have done me a favor. The more you talk about it being dead, which by the way has been said for years, the easier you make my job of marketing our CSN QuakeLive Events.
Quake is sick. I still play at least a few times a week. And there are tons of people to play with all the time at whatever skill rank I choose to play at. I also really enjoy watching Quake at LAN events such as Quakecon and Dreamhack. Judging a game based on it's graphics is a terrible practice. No real argument here, just an uninformed, angry post. 1\5
I expected a satire mocking people who say BW is dead. I was disappointed. Seriously this blog is the same as the BW is dead blogs, change around a few words and wham, there we go. The thing is, games don't die until people let them die, its the beauty of the thing. I don't play quake, hell I wasn't aware it was still played, but as long as three people get together to play it semi-competitively, it will not die, because those people fight for it.
TBH whenever I happened to see quake, I was curious. Maybe its the retro graphics that stand out among the rest of the A++ games that are now being run in Esport circuits or that you can tell how good a player is as the spectating is from the first person mode always (Unlike BW where you cant see all the "hidden" apm that makes a majority of a players skill). I personally enjoy it and was considering causally playing Quake Live until I realised my internet was not good enough to play properly.
I wish esports was dead. Then we could stop bitching about whats interesting to people who don't even like video games and play the shit that's actually good.
On December 20 2011 23:35 TheLOLas wrote: If someone likes a game why not let them develop into its own unique scene. If people want to watch professional kick ball then let them watch it.
Its not against the game
It's against the idea of bringing it on mlg/dreamhacks and forcing it on people when it's a "dead-end" route for a game far past its prime.
you can still enjoy it and watch the sidestream at dreamhack or w.e but the idea it's coming back is silly.
On December 20 2011 23:32 Sadistx wrote: Such hatred towards the game. This usually passes after you turn 20 or so, and you learn to ignore things you don't like.
This is so true. I can't believe how much energy people waste just hating stuff other people like. I wouldn't give it a specific age, it's just a certain maturity level that a lot of people on the internet don't have.
On December 20 2011 23:32 Bswhunter wrote: TBH whenever I happened to see quake, I was curious. Maybe its the retro graphics that stand out among the rest of the A++ games that are now being run in Esport circuits or that you can tell how good a player is as the spectating is from the first person mode always (Unlike BW where you cant see all the "hidden" apm that makes a majority of a players skill). I personally enjoy it and was considering causally playing Quake Live until I realised my internet was not good enough to play properly.
Thing about the graphics are that what you see most of the times on stream are 'dumbed' down graphics. The actual graphics of the game are actually quite good.
On December 20 2011 22:42 dacthehork wrote: I mean when is the next "quake-like" game coming out?
Broodwar did survive on very outdated tech pretty long because it is a great game. Quake 3 does so for the same reasons.
On December 20 2011 22:42 dacthehork wrote: I thought quake live failed a few years ago?
You are mistaken. What faild is the business model of Quake Live. Id Software banked on ingame advertising firms to generate some revenue for them while they themselfs supplied the views (really the same as every website does). However, the advertising firms all banked leaving QL with no ROI. The player numbers are still great and the game is well recieved by the players.
On December 20 2011 23:37 puppykiller wrote: I wish esports was dead. Then we could stop bitching about whats interesting to people who don't even like video games and play the shit that's actually good.
lol yeah I have to agree, esports is fucking lame if it means people flock to new games like flies flock to shit, just because there is money in it.
Quake is amazing, but the OP is right. Despite a ton of people (including me) saying we love to watch it, viewer numbers on tournaments are not very impressive. And there is absolutely no new up and comers to make the scene all that exciting for me. If 5k viewers are enough to make it profitable then great, but I don't think it is. I think even Slasher and other quake diehards are coming to the realization that it just isn't feasible to keep trying to get money for new quake tournaments. Especially since support from ID is nonexistent.
I think with CSGO and MAYBE Tribes ascend we will have a new FPS that can replace it though. Love NASL picking up tribes, totally unexpected, and crazy risky, but potentially awesome.
I've never played Quake and I don't know if the Quake is is dying or not. But I agree with that it was not fun to watch. Too fast, confusing and not really something I would watch for more than 10 minutes.
On December 21 2011 01:26 Pecul wrote: I've never played Quake and I don't know if the Quake is is dying or not. But I agree with that it was not fun to watch. Too fast, confusing and not really something I would watch for more than 10 minutes.
How was it confusing though? Seems pretty straightforward to me. Two guys get guns and fight, one guy dies, the other guy wins.
ahh.. good ol CS.. Thats OK man.. let them hide behind boxes and throw grenades through the same door 15 times. You an run around with me later in a server..skip, jump and kill things.
PRIZES ADDED! The Winner of the deathmatch stage of the event will receive a 1 month Pro Subscription to QuakeLive. This allows a player to start their own servers, adjust settings for the server and to join servers with premium maps and game types.
The top 2 overall winners will also receive a 1 Month Subscription. If the overall winner is also the player that won the FFA portion of the event, the prize will go to the next player in line.
CSN would like to thank ID Software for donating these prizes and for their continued support of the Cyber Sports Network.
Quake is my favorite FPS to watch for sure. I also have many fond memories of playing Q3:RA years ago. It's much more enjoyable for me to watch when compared to counterstrike or CoD/Halo.
On December 21 2011 01:00 Bosu wrote: MAYBE Tribes ascend we will have a new FPS that can replace it though.
No. I played Tribes the last 2 weeks to get a feel for it. The tech feels unpolished and currently it's quite impossible to spectate properly (free look cam is slow as fuck). Also the visual design is lacking. Classes are hard to distinguish and the maps look a bit generic.
I can't see it taking off as an esport as of now. It's still a fun game and a really great free2play title.
I doubt Quake will ever stop having a loyal fanbase. Like Brood War, it's just too good a game to be resigned to the dustbin of history. I gotta find my disc...
On December 21 2011 03:52 NukeTheStars wrote: I doubt Quake will ever stop having a loyal fanbase. Like Brood War, it's just too good a game to be resigned to the dustbin of history. I gotta find my disc...
I doubt Quake will ever stop having a loyal fanbase. Like Brood War, it's just too good a game to be redesigned by Dustbin Browder. I gotta find my dick...
i think its silly to have 1v1 rts (ignore all the pros that do it and such)
(just for the record I actually LOVE bw, just trying to sound like OP)
also they one thing op mentions often is the graphics, im sorry but graphics DO NOT make the game better, I'm sick of the xbox generation (12-16 years old now) saying that graphics actually matter...back when i started gaming you had dots for your character and if you were lucky your enemy actually looked like what it was supposed to be, get over graphics and grow up
Quake lives on through the niche community just like other games that are considered dead. Will it go main stream no sadly.
On December 21 2011 04:54 Sega92 wrote: brood war is dead, get over it.
shitty graphics shitty ai shitty maps
i think its silly to have 1v1 rts (ignore all the pros that do it and such)
(just for the record I actually LOVE bw, just trying to sound like OP)
also they one thing op mentions often is the graphics, im sorry buy graphics DO NOT make the game better, I'm sick of the xbox generation (12-16 years old now) saying that graphics actually matter...back when i started gaming you had dots for your character and if you were lucky your enemy actually looked like what it was supposed to be, get over graphics and grow up
Don't forget we had onion's around our belts back then as well. Those dots looked like what they were supposed to be back then and they still do now.
On December 20 2011 23:10 Stratos wrote: Interesting blog post. No arguments, no new point of view, not funny, nothing. You just vomited a random post full of hate and disrespect against people trying hard to preserve what they love. Why? Is this a concealed cry for help?
Cool your jets, mr. armchair psychologist. He was just getting annoyed by people trying to revive something he sees as dead.
On December 20 2011 22:40 Jh wrote: quake is incredibly fun to watch. it looks great. it may not be popular again. 1v1 fps is a great play mode. it's interesting and fun to watch. you simply don't understand what map control and timing means when it comes to quake.
QFT...until you try playing quake, you don't realize a) how freaking amazing they are at aiming and b) how hard it is to keep track of timings, knowing the map, knowing where your opponent might be...
it's really similar to bw to be honest, in terms of how difficult the game is. seeing pro's hit that ridiculous rail gives me similar nerd chills to an epic reaver hit, or jangbi storms (maybe jangbi storms is pushing it a bit :p)
For me quake represents what was once great about shooters and what went wrong with many modern shooters. This is why i hope it will never die. Like classical music, although i dont listen to it everyday and there are modern genres i listen to more, i think its important for culture not to loose those old gems.
My sole objection to Quake is that it makes me physically ill (motion sickness). It didn't become a classic because everyone bitched at its graphics. It has great gameplay. Duels couldn't be easier to follow. You can't have a game with fewer than 2 people playing, and if you can't follow a simple duel then you won't be able to follow any team game, unless it's something cartoony probably. Quake is fun regardless of what company is trying to sell how many copies of whatever latest, shiniest title they factoried out of their studio.
On December 20 2011 23:35 TheLOLas wrote: If someone likes a game why not let them develop into its own unique scene. If people want to watch professional kick ball then let them watch it.
Its not against the game
It's against the idea of bringing it on mlg/dreamhacks and forcing it on people when it's a "dead-end" route for a game far past its prime.
you can still enjoy it and watch the sidestream at dreamhack or w.e but the idea it's coming back is silly.
Dreamhack/mlg(and since when did mlg even have quake?) are not exclusively sc2 tournaments. Quake has just as much right to be on the mainstage as sc2, though I do agree that the way they scheduled quake as a half time show is pretty dumb. I don't like it when there's sc2 between my quake and my sf4. You don't have to watch the games you don't like. Just leave the stream on so you can see when sc2 is back and go do something else.
You strike me as someone who just jumps on the next big thing, as opposed to someone who is genuinely passionate about the game they play/watch. If you truly were passionate about your game, then you would understand that its not always about having a big crowd cheering for your game. If you are truly passionate about your game, you try to share that passion and educate people on what you do. Have respect for that, at least. As long as there are 2 people willing to play some quake, it will live on.
On December 20 2011 23:10 Stratos wrote: Interesting blog post. No arguments, no new point of view, not funny, nothing. You just vomited a random post full of hate and disrespect against people trying hard to preserve what they love. Why? Is this a concealed cry for help?
Cool your jets, mr. armchair psychologist. He was just getting annoyed by people trying to revive something he sees as dead.
Oh thanks I guess that in fact does make sense. Next time I'm not sure about someone's motives, can I pm you?
On December 21 2011 13:59 Soyuz wrote: This blog made me cry, the quake formula/style of fps is still easily one of the best there is out there...it's like the broodwar of FPS
fixed
but agree. literally all other fps released today are shit. the skill and depth of a proper q2/q3a (cpma) duel will most likely never be reached again.
its sad that the grandfather of ALL competive fps has to take shit like this blog nowadays. but sure, once the last really competive games die and all you can watch is pointless playerhype soaps you call esports nowadays then maybe you realize what is lost with games like quake(live) dying.
On December 21 2011 13:59 Soyuz wrote: This blog made me cry, the quake formula/style of fps is still easily one of the best there is out there...it's like the broodwar of FPS
fixed
but agree. literally all other fps released today are shit. the skill and depth of a proper q2/q3a (cpma) duel will most likely never be reached again.
its sad that the grandfather of ALL competive fps has to take shit like this blog nowadays. but sure, once the last really competive games die and all you can watch is pointless playerhype soaps you call esports nowadays then maybe you realize what is lost with games like quake(live) dying.
dont forget quake1! Dm4 was the first competitive fps map I played and was a map I'll never forget, the mega was in such a perfect position... You go for it, and youre basically dead... Good times.
practicing on frogbot only to dialup to some euro server with 400 ping and still stay on par with KD, oh the memories :D
Kids these days and their halos and xbox lives, no idea what it was like "back in the day"
I was more into UT and most of all Half Life Death Match guy, which both just were more fun to play "casually" but at least HLDM was clearly the worse "competetive" game (but so much fun). The thing about Quake is (i played a bit Quake 3, never really serious but i could handle a nightmare bot in a 1on1 on a map witheout rails. When playing against a truly good friend the score most of the time looked like 10 to -5 ). Even whiteout being able to Rocket jump or even try half the stuff the guys in these Vids do I can see that it's WTFAMAZAING what they do.
I get none of that when i watch Halo or Whateverbullshitnewsschoolshooter... There just is none of all this in them, they are just slow.. slow... slow.
On December 21 2011 01:26 Pecul wrote: I've never played Quake and I don't know if the Quake is is dying or not. But I agree with that it was not fun to watch. Too fast, confusing and not really something I would watch for more than 10 minutes.
How was it confusing though? Seems pretty straightforward to me. Two guys get guns and fight, one guy dies, the other guy wins.
It was confusing due to my lack of knowledge of the game, like items, map, weapon effect, game mechanics (like why did someone's hp and armor keep ticking down by 1)
Then that's your problem and not something wrong with the game. That's like saying starcraft is boring to watch because I don't know why they are getting minerals.
I'm going to guess the OP has no clue about all the ins and outs of what makes games like quake actually competitive. It isn't just because they are fast moving and shooting at each other you know. I know my gaming friends that don't play SC2 think it is boring to watch because they don't understand it like someone who plays it does. Maybe you are just too closed minded to notice the depth.
I remember watching Unreal Tournament 2003/2004 was some of the most fun I've had spectating a video game. I don't know where you are coming from saying 1v1 FPS aren't fun to watch.
Deathmatch, be it 1on 1 or free for all, is the only type of FPS games I still enjoy.
I played god only knows how much hours of Counter-Strike, Day of Defeat and other assorted FPS games. But at the end of the day, Deathmatch is the only thing remotely quick enough to be fun anymore. It's the only thing that brings me a thrill.
Quake is not dead. I agree that the graphics DO affect my enjoyment of it, but if a new Deathmatch game came out, I would be all over it. I played UT3 for a while; it's just a shame no one else did, but it was a ton of fun.
People say these things all the time of course it isn't dead. But it will take something bigger to rejuvenate it, Which probably means someone finding a way to reinvent the genre with a new game that still utilizes the same skill set.
Stop trying to awaken the dead. Broodwar is dead, all these weird efforts by Sayle/Koreans are silly. It's not fun to watch, it's not going to make a recovery. Have you seen how Broodwar looks on stream? The Textures? Its a mess. It won't EVER be popular again and neither will this idea of 1v1 Broodwar. It's just not interesting or fun to watch. Plus the game is basically dead.
Please stop with these Broodwar shows, Broodwar mixed tournaments its just sad to see.
Sometimes you have to walk away from the dead horse and not try to ride it for the next 5 years.
Just a personal blog, I just think it's silly to imagine a 1v1 Broodwar RTS taking off anytime soon. BW died (ignore the SC2 crapfest) a long time ago and you dont see random people running teams + (insert popular game / event) here events so people can watch and say "wow that old graphically horrible looking game looks like it was interesting 10 years ago, now when will day9 tell me to do the fusion core dance and shout excitedly to entertain me?"
On December 20 2011 22:42 dacthehork wrote: I mean when is the next "quake-like" game coming out?
When is the next chess coming out? I dont think you can improve quake much. Graphics is perfect as it is. Visibility is the key in a fast game like this. No better fps to play and constantly get better at as possibilities are endless.
At the same time its hard to get new players as people have been playing for years and years..
On December 20 2011 22:42 dacthehork wrote: I mean when is the next "quake-like" game coming out?
When is the next chess coming out? I dont think you can improve quake much. Graphics is perfect as it is. Visibility is the key in a fast game like this. No better fps to play and constantly get better at as possibilities are endless.
At the same time its hard to get new players as people have been playing for years and years..
Quake can be altered and reinvented for a new generation in similar fashion to SC2. It might require slight "dumbing down" but in the end it would be for the best. Graphics can be improved without hurting gameplay, weapons can be modified/added, movement tricks could be added as well and of course things like a dedicated ladder and proper matchmaking system are a must.
There is a huge deathmatch/1v1 FPS community in hibernation right now just waiting for the next game. Some of the most successful and popular PC games of all time have been from the Quake and Unreal series. Just like how the competitive RTS scene (BW and WC3) was dead outside of Korea during the mid 2000s (WCG was the only real tourmanent) the 1v1 FPS scene is "dead" now. That doesn't mean a Quake 5 couldn't come in and blow the scene up just like SC2 did. Problem here is id Software isn't Blizzard, and I don't know if they have it in them to make another revolutionary multiplayer game.
The next big deathmatch game will probably come out of nowhere from an unexpected developer.
On December 20 2011 22:42 dacthehork wrote: I mean when is the next "quake-like" game coming out?
When is the next chess coming out? I dont think you can improve quake much. Graphics is perfect as it is. Visibility is the key in a fast game like this. No better fps to play and constantly get better at as possibilities are endless.
At the same time its hard to get new players as people have been playing for years and years..
Quake can be altered and reinvented for a new generation in similar fashion to SC2. It might require slight "dumbing down" but in the end it would be for the best. Graphics can be improved without hurting gameplay, weapons can be modified/added, movement tricks could be added as well and of course things like a dedicated ladder and proper matchmaking system are a must.
There is a huge deathmatch/1v1 FPS community in hibernation right now just waiting for the next game. Some of the most successful and popular PC games of all time have been from the Quake and Unreal series. Just like how the competitive RTS scene (BW and WC3) was dead outside of Korea during the mid 2000s (WCG was the only real tourmanent) the 1v1 FPS scene is "dead" now. That doesn't mean a Quake 5 couldn't come in and blow the scene up just like SC2 did. Problem here is id Software isn't Blizzard, and I don't know if they have it in them to make another revolutionary multiplayer game.
The next big deathmatch game will probably come out of nowhere from an unexpected developer.
Im kinda skeptical deathmatch games can make a big return or that it would be slowed down and dumbed down too much to make them playable on consoles. (halo?) Or that it wouldn't have all the customization possibilities of quake or strafe jumping and movement everybody likes. But anyways I thing people playing quake would still play quake 3 / ql. Quake 4 came out and nobody cared, UT3 came out and nobody cared.
There are many dm games and variations like warsow, nexius, alien arena and many more but none of them are played much.
I hope there will be a change in the future that people start coming back from 'realistic' fps to dm but I dont know if it will ever happen.
Theres somebody playing Super Mario64 12 hours a day every day and streaming it at the moment to break the WR if you want to complain about other games you might not like that should be dead but still have 3k people watching every hour for the last few days.
Its funny how this got to 5 pages. If the op was talking about BW, it wouldnt have gotten past 1 post before the thread is quickly locked and the op banned. Does anybody see something wrong here ?
On December 23 2011 09:00 SarR wrote: Its funny how this got to 5 pages. If the op was talking about BW, it wouldnt have gotten past 1 post before the thread is quickly locked and the op banned. Does anybody see something wrong here ?
On December 23 2011 09:00 SarR wrote: Its funny how this got to 5 pages. If the op was talking about BW, it wouldnt have gotten past 1 post before the thread is quickly locked and the op banned. Does anybody see something wrong here ?
On December 23 2011 09:00 SarR wrote: Its funny how this got to 5 pages. If the op was talking about BW, it wouldnt have gotten past 1 post before the thread is quickly locked and the op banned. Does anybody see something wrong here ?
I was kind of wondering this too. Maybe this is because there are no Quake fans among the mods
EPT
![[image loading]](http://0101.sk/stare-hry/images/firef.gif)
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