• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:30
CEST 15:30
KST 22:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL46Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30
Community News
[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th12Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifier Results26Code S RO12 Results + RO8 Groups (2025 Season 2)3
StarCraft 2
General
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Magnus Carlsen and Fabi review Clem's chess game. Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th
Tourneys
Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion [BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ I made an ASL quiz
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 2 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 1
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread What do you want from future RTS games? Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Cognitive styles x game perf…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Poker
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 23885 users

Can't decide on race in SC2.

Blogs > Salivanth
Post a Reply
Salivanth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia1071 Posts
December 13 2011 11:39 GMT
#1
So I'm thinking of coming back to SC2, after having stopped for several months after reaching Plat as Protoss. But I have absolutely no idea which race to go: All four options have their pros and cons. But more importantly, the options also involve assumptions that might be wrong, and/or questions that need answering. Because of this, I decided to write a blog about it. So here's my list of factors:

Terran:

Pros: Great variety of builds, seems the most flexible of all three races. Would allow me to play almost any style I wanted and switch them up frequently if I chose.
Would force me to improve my APM and become a better player.

Cons: Requires high APM, which I don't have yet.
Significant micro needed: I'm bad at micro, and I lag a bit in SC2. The lag should be alleviated when I move soon though.

Questions: How does TvT work these days? The mirror matches seem the worst parts of SC2. PvZ, ZvT and TvP are all interesting matchups on both sides, or were a few months ago.

Zerg:

Pros: Defensive macro style, which I enjoy, even as Protoss, which I used to play.
Very little micro required at low levels, except in defending cheese and such.
Would force me to improve game sense and scouting, making me a better player.

Cons: When I used to play, Zerg had a lot of trouble, especially with scouting. Especially Terran were able to deny scouting very easily, and force Zerg into a guessing game where they had no idea what was coming, and could not defend against everything.
Requires game sense and map control. Very reactionary.
ZvZ is very aggressive and cut-throat, but in a way seems better than PvP, as skill plays more of a factor at high levels from what I have read.

Questions: Can Terran still deny scouting vs. Zerg in that fashion and force them into a guessing game loaded in the Terran's favor? If so, I simply don't want to play ZvT.
Is ZvZ more stable now, or does it still involve a lot of cheese and all-ins on ladder?

Protoss:

Pros: Much better at it, or was, than the other two races. At my peak, was moving past macro being the only thing I had to work on seriously.
Suits me well: There's a good reason I picked it in the first place after all.

Cons: PvP turned me off during my last phase of playing SC2.
Force field usage is difficult with lag.

Questions: Has PvP settled down? Is it possible to really dominate PvP like other mirrors? That would be a good metric of skill in the matchup.

Random:

Pros: Would allow me to play all three races, and I do have an interest in all three.
Would make matchups like ZvZ and PvP less common, perhaps rare enough to maintain my interest.
Would give me a wide overview of the game, and allow me to pick a race later.

Cons: Would have to learn all three races at once.
Harder to advance, require more skill to climb the ladder.
Potential for being cheesed a lot more.

Questions: Do people cheese Randoms a lot? I know when I played vs. Randoms, I always assumed they would cheese and was usually right, but I never cheesed back.

So that's basically my master list. I could go into more detail, but those are the major things, and I don't want this blog post to become a TLDR, though it probably already is. Advice is certainly appreciated: Real advice, not "Play Terran it's OP lolz" or "Don't play Zerg, Zerg get raped every patch" or something.

Thanks in advance!

*
<@Wikt> so you are one of those nega-fans <@Wikt> that hates the company that makes a game and everything they stand for <@Wikt> but still plays the game <@Wikt> (like roughly 30% of blizzard's player base, maybe much more...)
Abort Retry Fail
Profile Joined December 2011
2636 Posts
December 13 2011 11:54 GMT
#2
It really depends on your style. The best advice you're going to get is try every race out for an ample amount of time, and then decide based on which one feels natural to you. It also helps that you have a favorite progamer whose style you like, and so you follow his race. good luck.
BSOD
Steel
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Japan2283 Posts
December 13 2011 12:11 GMT
#3
Questions: Can Terran still deny scouting vs. Zerg in that fashion and force them into a guessing game loaded in the Terran's favor? If so, I simply don't want to play ZvT.
Is ZvZ more stable now, or does it still involve a lot of cheese and all-ins on ladder?


Yes, terran can still deny scouting especially with hellion expand builds. Your best bet is to hide a zergling early on, overlord scout, then scout the front with your zergling. It doesn't give you a full read, but you can usually see when there's a big all-in coming like hellion maurauder, two port banshee and so on.

A lot of terran one base all in are actually thwarted by clever building placement (see games by Leenock and DRG) and solid build orders involving spines, evo chambers, macro hatches and a third queen to be able to react quickly to ground and air play. It's tricky early on, but ZvT is by far my most fun matchup to play. It's honestly really balanced past that 'risk of 1 base' phase. Try to hide a zergling or drone behind his mineral line at the natural. I'm mid masters and still get away with it most of the time. That way if you see no natural after the reactor hellion, you know some sort of pressure is coming.

Then, ZvZ is still mostly cheese. Embrace it. When I don't feel like playing ZvZ I all-in, and when I do I don't all-in, and get more than 50% win rate in either case, so I don't mind it that much.
Try another route paperboy.
chingchong99
Profile Joined November 2011
Nauru64 Posts
December 13 2011 12:29 GMT
#4
You can't really cheese a random, since many cheeses only work against a certain race. You wouldnt cannon rush a terran for example.
~900 pts masters toss @ EU | Looking for a practice partner, pm me!
Beaza
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany203 Posts
December 13 2011 13:16 GMT
#5
All these people asking for advice about which race to play need to understand that there is more than one way to play one race. Every race can be played in a macro-oriented or allinish-agressive style. Also micro is required in all three races (more and more as you climb the ladder), its just different in the detail for example marine splitting, mutalisk micro, blink stalker, different sorts of spellcaster. Focus firing, microing back unhealthy units,etc is essential to all races.
You can play terran emulating goody or emulating mkp. It would be a experience like playing two different races.

My advice: Just pick the race you think that has the coolest units, best abilitys, and especially the greatest wow-moments when playing (for example: I just blew up a planetary with banelings or Holy Shit my banshee micro is so good i never lose it or AMAZING forcefields or omnom the whole map is in lila creep or hahahaha my 2rax make you lose in 5.5 minutes you mad? or BÄÄM Archon toilet.)
Jh
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Finland151 Posts
December 13 2011 13:26 GMT
#6
Pick a high level/profile player, who you like the most. Then emulate him.
what
pestilenz
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Denmark379 Posts
December 13 2011 13:42 GMT
#7
I think you should chose zerg (because of the special gameplay zerg has - not because some say it is harder, but because it is different and you learn to approach the game differently) or random and ONLY play unorthodox styles.

I wonder a lot if I should shift to random sometimes, but I really want to hit master keke
You can attack with this?!
Kukaracha
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
France1954 Posts
December 13 2011 14:20 GMT
#8
While I do agree that Terran is more micro-intensive in the lower levels, I don't think Terran is a flexible race. At all.

Terrans have many choice, true, but once you have your game plan, you can't switch. You can't go for a certain bio build and then go mech. There are 3 different kinds of upgrades for bio, mech and air. And 3 different production facilities. I'd say that Terran are the least flexible, and Zerg the most flexible.

Also, I'd also add that in the lower leagues, it probably looks like this I think: Protoss>Terran>Zerg, because it's a lot of poor macro and a-click battles and the Toss just has an amazing firepower while Zergies usually don't know what's going on and when to drone up.
Around Plat and Diamond, I'd say that it goes Zerg>Terran>Protoss, because Zergs actually become good and many battles the Terran faces are very micro dependant (marine split for example) while Diamond micro is not that good.
And finally, in Master league, I'd say we go Terran>Zerg>Protoss, because Terran micro has a great potential and you can kill pretty much anything with marines as long as you control them well.

This was just a fantasist side note and shouldn't be taken too seriously, but that's how I feel.
Le long pour l'un pour l'autre est court (le mot-à-mot du mot "amour").
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
December 13 2011 15:17 GMT
#9
Random it up!~ :D
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
Arcane86
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States68 Posts
December 13 2011 15:18 GMT
#10
Don't play random if you want to improve a lot. Improvement is driven by repetition. Random, by definition, offers the least repetitive environment.

I made the decision a few months ago to switch off of random. I really enjoyed a lot about all three races, so my decision came down to the mirrors. When I switched, the mirror-match metagame that I found the least infuriating was TvT, so I went with Terran. Metagames have since shifted, particularly in PvP.

PvP no longer demands a 4gate. It's still very heavy on the 1-base play with later expanding than other races, but it can reach a stable state. The general patch direction has been trying to move the meta-game towards PvP being more a more stable matchup. Moreover, with the Archon and Immortal buffs of late, there are now viable styles of mid-late game PvP that do not demand colossus. That said, it is still brutal before you reach 2-base. I would watch RGNinori for a cool, stable PvP style.

ZvZ metagame is no longer just zergling-baneling. Meticulous attention to your opening and unit placement can get you to the point of 2-base play relatively early, with the current 2+ base meta-game vacillating between roach-infestor, roach-hydra, and zergling-muta. Do keep in mind that the blood-pressure-spiking zergling-baneling phase of the game still exists and is still stressful as all get-out.

TvT below the highest tier is still tank-line v. tank-line. Below the highest tier of play, breaking tanklines is really hard, and you won't be able to beat tank-based play with strict bio if you are only incrementally better than your opponent until you get to the upper echelons of terran. Mech is very hard but viable. It's always been the most dynamic mirror, but has it's moments of crazy. If ZvZ can see food advantages shift by the dozens with a few clutch banelings, a single positioning decision can swing at TvT by >50food.

Hope this helps.

There is no Cow Level
Arcane86
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States68 Posts
December 13 2011 15:19 GMT
#11
If you want to have fun by screwing around, go go gadget random! I occasionally consider getting another account just so that I can occasionally random it up without hurting my ladder rank.
There is no Cow Level
achristes
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Norway653 Posts
December 13 2011 15:26 GMT
#12

Questions: Can Terran still deny scouting vs. Zerg in that fashion and force them into a guessing game loaded in the Terran's favor? If so, I simply don't want to play ZvT.
Is ZvZ more stable now, or does it still involve a lot of cheese and all-ins on ladder?

It's not really that much you need to scout, what you are basicly trying to find out is if it's an allin and what units he will be pressuring/allining you with. Reactor helion is easy to scout as you will have lings out by then. Banshee can be tricky, check marine count and gas timing, I always get a early-ish evo chamber for ups anyway so banshees aren't really that much of a problem for me. Thit is atleast what I try to find out and I'm a diamond Z doing pretty well.

ZvZ is not as cheesy, but cheese is still there, the most popular ones are bling busts (atleast from what I've seen) from one-base. In ZvZ the most versatile opening IMO is 14/14, expo at 20 bling nest when I have enough gas, because you can go 1base blings, speedling allin, expand or whatever. ZvZ is also extremely micro intense if there are bling/ling vs ling/bling or similiar situations (defending 6pool maybe), but that's the early game. Late game ZvZ is almost the same as any other matchup.
youtube.com/spooderm4n | twitch.tv/spooderm4n | Random videos and games I feel like uploading
Salivanth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia1071 Posts
December 14 2011 07:27 GMT
#13
Thanks for all the advice: There's some interesting stuff in here. Namely, I've found that Terran is a bit less flexible than I thought (Flexible in terms of openers, not so much later on) and Zerg is a bit better than I thought, with ZvZ improving significantly. Arcane86 especially gave me some good information, though I'm still considering random, with the intent of switching to another race when I have more info.

The advice hasn't made my decision, but it has made the likelihood of my making a good decision much higher. Thanks! (And if anyone else has advice, I'd be happy to receive it: More is good in my books, on this problem at least.)
<@Wikt> so you are one of those nega-fans <@Wikt> that hates the company that makes a game and everything they stand for <@Wikt> but still plays the game <@Wikt> (like roughly 30% of blizzard's player base, maybe much more...)
Steveling
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Greece10806 Posts
December 14 2011 07:38 GMT
#14
On December 13 2011 22:26 Jh wrote:
Pick a high level/profile player, who you like the most. Then emulate him.


Tell me how that works if you like MMA.
My dick has shrunk to the point where it looks like I have 3 balls.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
AllThingsProtoss
11:00
Team League - Grand Finals
Gemini_1948
Liquipedia
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #93
ByuN vs herOLIVE!
CranKy Ducklings515
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Hui .280
EnDerr 100
BRAT_OK 98
ProTech87
MindelVK 27
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 11469
Calm 5836
Horang2 3840
Shuttle 3140
Rain 2558
firebathero 812
Bisu 766
Jaedong 680
EffOrt 529
Hyuk 505
[ Show more ]
Snow 364
actioN 317
ggaemo 275
Last 269
Mini 260
Dewaltoss 130
JYJ117
Hyun 92
sorry 75
Pusan 70
Aegong 63
TY 55
Rush 42
sSak 35
Sea.KH 34
Killer 30
Mong 26
Barracks 23
Sacsri 21
Yoon 19
Sharp 18
GoRush 17
JulyZerg 15
yabsab 8
soO 5
Terrorterran 3
ivOry 3
Britney 0
Dota 2
Gorgc5360
qojqva2129
XcaliburYe375
Fuzer 281
syndereN217
Counter-Strike
x6flipin532
allub366
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor271
Other Games
singsing2247
B2W.Neo785
DeMusliM695
mouzStarbuck432
XaKoH 101
ArmadaUGS21
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream6960
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 33
StarCraft 2
angryscii 27
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 53
• Adnapsc2 29
• MJG 6
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3197
League of Legends
• Jankos1327
• Stunt357
Upcoming Events
Fire Grow Cup
1h 31m
BSL: ProLeague
4h 31m
HBO vs Doodle
spx vs Tech
DragOn vs Hawk
Dewalt vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
10h 31m
Replay Cast
1d 10h
Replay Cast
1d 20h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 21h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 21h
GSL Code S
2 days
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Online Event
3 days
GSL Code S
3 days
herO vs TBD
Classic vs TBD
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Cheesadelphia
6 days
GSL Code S
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-06-05
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.