Nice Blog. Z33k tournament are good to get exposure against players with a higher skill level. I experience a lot of different build orders in tournaments than if I play against people my level or even in the same channel. Practicing with the same people leaves you open to laziness so I think it's good if you branch out into tournaments.
As far as the Kas vs Whitera match, I think Kas simply out-macroed White-ra. Whitera needed to put on more pressure in general - 2 out of the 4 games Kas won he did quick double expands. I guess it was surprising since Whatra 4-0 Kas the previous day. Either way, both are great players...sometimes people have their on and off days.
Well... I guess since I did name this blog "Tales from the Perilous Realm" I might as well make reference to J.R.R. Tolkien's great work:
Lord of the Rings revisited: A long and perilous journey awaits RevTiberius and his fellowship. Will he reach Mordor? Is he the one to rule them all? Only time will tell…
On December 13 2011 17:24 RevTiberius wrote: Season 4 has ended for me and I did not manage to get the promotion I was after. Maybe a future season will prove more successful. And maybe a switch to protoss is in order... I honestly do believe protoss is easier to play at lower levels and at lower APM
Everybody has to start somewhere. Don't switch races, just work harder
face in desk, yes please god do not switch races. You did not get promoted because you have yet to improve on fundamentals in mechanics and strategy. This has nothing to do with your race. If you learn a solid strat for any race and execute it half way decent you will get to masters no problem. Which is why I hate the whole I wanna get to X! stuff, it really shouldnt be how you view things, you should just aim to play every game better than the last.
On December 13 2011 17:24 RevTiberius wrote: Season 4 has ended for me and I did not manage to get the promotion I was after. Maybe a future season will prove more successful. And maybe a switch to protoss is in order... I honestly do believe protoss is easier to play at lower levels and at lower APM
Everybody has to start somewhere. Don't switch races, just work harder
face in desk, yes please god do not switch races. You did not get promoted because you have yet to improve on fundamentals in mechanics and strategy. This has nothing to do with your race. If you learn a solid strat for any race and execute it half way decent you will get to masters no problem. Which is why I hate the whole I wanna get to X! stuff, it really shouldnt be how you view things, you should just aim to play every game better than the last.
I agree with you that switching races might be an extreme measure. But "Which is why I hate the whole I wanna get to X! stuff" is a point of view I am afraid I have to disagree with. My main goal is to become a better player, and the first post of this blog explains in great detail where I stand and what I need to work on. However, as someone who's been consistently in top 8 of my platinum divisions, I really don't think a promotion to diamond is an irrelevant, distracting, or inappropriate goal. Of course the main task is to improve my macro, make more SCVs, scout better etc, but sooner or later I want all these little improvements to add up to a promotion to diamond.
I repeat, I do want to become a better player, but a promotion - which at least in theory I should be very close to - would be a tangible manifestation of the progress I have undoubtedly made over the past weeks and months.
Great information on here, especially for players seeking ways to get better. I think players can learn from the hotkeys section. All in all, the game is to have fun, but here at team Revoki, we can have fun while being the best! Feel free to hit me up Tiberius for practice against Protoss.
On January 02 2012 06:27 RevTiberius wrote: Well... I guess since I did name this blog "Tales from the Perilous Realm" I might as well make reference to J.R.R. Tolkien's great work:
Lord of the Rings revisited: A long and perilous journey awaits RevTiberius and his fellowship. Will he reach Mordor? Is he the one to rule them all? Only time will tell…
On January 02 2012 06:27 RevTiberius wrote: Well... I guess since I did name this blog "Tales from the Perilous Realm" I might as well make reference to J.R.R. Tolkien's great work:
Lord of the Rings revisited: A long and perilous journey awaits RevTiberius and his fellowship. Will he reach Mordor? Is he the one to rule them all? Only time will tell…
One does not simply walk into Mordor. Practice
Haha... I really didn't know that this "one doesn't simply ... into Mordor" is such an internet phenomenon until I posted that map... Amazing what the community can teach you... I'll definitely seek you out for some practice games! Thx for the offer.
Here's a recent ladder game of mine that for completeness sake I also posted to the 1st post of this blog:
This game is significant to me because one of the openings I have vs. Zerg is double reactor hellion all-in. This works amazingly well, unless my opponent gets 2 or more sunks, or goes roaches, as in this case. This is one of the few games where I win despite roaches. Usually I lose at least 2/3 of these games. I would like to note the following about this game: - when he attacked, I probably pulled too many SCVs - I find that particular choke much harder to defend to this kind of attack than chokes on other maps (e.g. Xel Naga Caverns) - he may have left prematurely? I was a little surprised when he simply left at that point. Or was the game so clearly won for me? I really don't know - I REALLY need to scout better. McGuffin's comments about the Zerg's gas made me realize that scouting can really teach me so much more than just whether the Zerg is 6 pooling or fast expanding
There is probably more which I'll add later after watching the replay one more time.
Anyway... any kind of feedback on the game is highly appreciated! Especially from Zerg or Terran players.
I suggest you read the following comments AFTER watching the replay.
Despite all the inefficiencies that Zander rightfully pointed out in my game, I consider this game progress compared to how I used to play TvT. I used to turtle in my base and either go for doom drops (which were all too often unsuccessful), or BCs. Despite all problems still in my game, I consider adapting tanks/marines and more generally a more dynamic play style progress. And now I’m also trying to take advantage of the layout of the map and don’t just try to bust through the choke. And I’m trying to incorporate more elevator play into my TvTs and TvPs. So in that respect, I’m quite happy with the game because it’s a step in the right direction. Having said that, there are obviously still a lot of problems in my game. In particular, I’d like to comment on the following points:
SCVs: The biggest problem. In all my games, no matter the match up, it always seems to me as if I’m making SCVs constantly and never skip a beat. Obviously that’s not the case. I’m always significantly behind in workers, sometimes even when I have more bases than my opponent. This is a mystery to me because I’ve recently managed to improve the utilization of my production facilities quite a bit. And I’m reasonably good at keeping my orbital energy low. But for some reason I can’t seem to manage to make SCVs constantly. Suggestions on this matter would be highly appreciated.
Vikings: The big engagement of vikings at the end of the game. This is one of the few points where I disagree with Zander. He recommended pulling back the vikings. I didn’t because it seemed to me that my vikings were outnumbers so greatly that I would have lost them anyway and pulling back wouldn’t have saved any of them. This is something I always do when I see that I’m gonna lose the unit anyway. I stay, fight and do some damage rather than run and just die. However, even pro gamers seem to run even when the situation is hopeless. So maybe something is wrong in my logic here.
Turrets: Zander is quite right when he says that I shouldn’t have built so many turrets at the southern edge of my base. I do it because I’m afraid of drops, not banshees. I know it’s a waste of minerals. I need to get into the habit of making fewer turrets in early-mid game and spend the minerals on army instead. And maybe leave a tank and a few marines behind to defend against drops. And a single turret in the mineral line will do against banshees.
Marine count: too low. I used to never make enough tanks. Now I have enough tanks. When I manage to make enough rines AND tanks, I’m set.
If I missed anything of importance, I would be grateful to any reader for bringing it to my attention.
All things considered, I remember I was quite happy after I won that game because it was - believe it or not - a “great leap forward” compared to previous games. And yet, after seeing the replay, I have to grudgingly agree when Zander calls this win “pure luck” because the opponent was in a superior position and probably a better player.
Sometimes it is a little frustrating to have a good player point out so many elementary mistakes in my game. And yet, I take comfort in the fact that as a top 8 platinum player, I’m already in the 60th percentile of the SC2 population. And as long as I feel I’m still improving I’ll enjoy playing this game.
Finally, I’d like to thank Zanderfever for casting this game. If you haven’t done so already, I highly recommend checking out his stream. His analytical casts are very instructive and much better than what some of the well-known casters churn out. http://www.youtube.com/user/zanderfeverSC
For a long time I’ve been wanting to write something about chess and SC2, and here we go. I’m not very good at SC2, but a fairly good chess player, and I find the frequent comparisons between chess and SC2 here on the strategy forums utterly misguided. In the following sections I will explain why. The following is neither complete nor necessarily coherent. It is, however, a compelling argument why chess and SC2 are two very different games and shouldn’t be compared lightly.
First a little bit about myself. I’m a top 8 platinum player who only plays SC2 casually and spends most of his time on BattleNet managing Team Revoki rather than developing his own SC2 skills. At the same time however, I’m a 2300 ELO chess player and I do play regularly over the board as well as online.
Ownership/Economics: SC2 is owned by Blizzard. Blizzard’s main objective is to make money. All other considerations are subordinate to the profitability of the Starcraft franchise. At the same time, Blizzard has total control over SC2. The company controls access to BN and can change rules and balancing of the game whenever it chooses. Chess, on the other hand, is more or less in the public domain and not controlled by a single entity. The World Chess Federation does exist, but it is a non-profit organization, purely administrative, and does not nearly exercise as much control over chess as Blizzard does over SC2.
Rules/Patches: In SC2, patches occur frequently and change the dynamics quite a bit. As discussed in the previous section, these patches occur solely at Blizzard’s discretion, and the company’s reasoning for them is never entirely public. Chess on the other hand has not undergone any major rule changes in many decades if not centuries with the exception of adjustments around time control and the conditions under which a draw can be agreed upon. But the basic mechanics of the game have been untouched for a very long time.
Cheese: In SC2, cheese is based on the fact that the two players do not have good vision of each other, especially early on. Which is why sometimes canon rushes, 6-pools and other cheese is successful. In chess, however, you always have perfect vision of your opponent’s actions. Even if you don’t always understand what he’s doing, at least you always know what he is up to. Therefore, cheese does not exist in chess. And if you consider how many SC2 games – especially in the lower leagues – are decided by successful or unsuccessful cheese, it becomes clear that the nonexistence of cheese in chess makes for quite different game dynamics.
Strategy: My main point is that chess and SC2 are two very different games indeed. Sometimes here in the forums I see comparisons being drawn between chess and SC2 strategy, but to me these comparisons never really make much sense. SC2 – for better or for worse – is a game where you can get very far as long as you have proper mechanics. As long as a player can push the keys on his keyboard quickly, he is guaranteed to make master league, i.e. top 0.2% of the entire SC2 community. Yes, strategy, and knowledge about timings, counters, game sense, etc. also matter, especially at pro gamer level, but not nearly as much as pure mechanics. Chess on the other hand is ENTIRELY different. Leaving aside blitz and bullet chess (two variants I am especially fond of :D), mechanics play no part at all. A game of chess is based primarily on the players’ knowledge of chess strategy and their ability to calculate variations, both of which are purely intellectual skills.
Experience: Because SC2 is based so much on mechanics rather than intellectual skill and experience, it can be learned relatively quickly as long as the player has good reflexes. Some of the pro gamers in the SC2 circuit have been playing RTS games for a relatively short period of time. Chess, on the other hand, is much harder to learn and much much harder to develop to highest levels. Even prodigies need at the very least 10 years of instruction, training and experience before they stand a chance vs. the world’s best players. Thus, it is not surprising that currently there is a significant number of leading chess grandmasters – including the current world champion and his predecessors – age 30 and above.
Thus, and this is my conclusion, be weary of any man who keeps a pig farm (Brick Top reference) and any SC2 player who tries to make a point using chess comparisons…
PS: I’m also active on several chess servers, and if any of you would like a game (blitz or bullet preferred) drop me a line!
Your whole text is so completly wrong. it made me so angry wow. Totally chess biased.
"Because SC2 is based so much on mechanics rather than intellectual skill and experience, it can be learned relatively quickly as long as the player has good reflexes. As long as a player can push the keys on his keyboard quickly, he is guaranteed to make master league, i.e. top 0.2% of the entire SC2 community"
you know how that sounds to me? listen. You can be a veery stupid dumbass but if you can type quickly you can be very good at starcraft2. That means: Even if you are mentally retarded but push your keys very fast, you can be better than 99.8% of the whole sc community. how can you even judge about things like that? youre "just" platinum. You can play the game but you dont know shit about it. I am ... as fas as i can tell ... pretty good at starcraft, i sometimes play chess but im not that good. Now imagine i make a blog about how complex strategies in sc2 are and then compare it to chess and say chess is only placing weird looking figures around the board. chess is very limited in its options hence there are oly 64 fields. how does that sound to you eh? thats not fair. sc2 is a complex game with millions of strategies, hundreds of maps, billions of diffrent army compositions, but all you do is present the game as a game for retards who just are good with their keyboards.
EDIT: But of course there is a lot more crap in your comparison. Blizzard’s main objective is to make money. All other considerations are subordinate to the profitability of the Starcraft franchise. At the same time, Blizzard has total control over SC2. The company controls access to BN and can change rules and balancing of the game whenever it chooses. You present blizzard as a fucking dictator who changes the game balance randomly without thinking about it just to make money. firthermore you say they dont give a shit about anything else ... this is so wrong man.
On January 10 2012 09:22 Coopa826 wrote: I repost my response from reddit:
Your whole text is so completly wrong. it made me so angry wow. Totally chess biased.
"Because SC2 is based so much on mechanics rather than intellectual skill and experience, it can be learned relatively quickly as long as the player has good reflexes. As long as a player can push the keys on his keyboard quickly, he is guaranteed to make master league, i.e. top 0.2% of the entire SC2 community"
you know how that sounds to me? listen. You can be a veery stupid dumbass but if you can type quickly you can be very good at starcraft2. That means: Even if you are mentally retarded but push your keys very fast, you can be better than 99.8% of the whole sc community. how can you even judge about things like that? youre "just" platinum. You can play the game but you dont know shit about it. I am ... as fas as i can tell ... pretty good at starcraft, i sometimes play chess but im not that good. Now imagine i make a blog about how complex strategies in sc2 are and then compare it to chess and say chess is only placing weird looking figures around the board. chess is very limited in its options hence there are oly 64 fields. how does that sound to you eh? thats not fair. sc2 is a complex game with millions of strategies, hundreds of maps, billions of diffrent army compositions, but all you do is present the game as a game for retards who just are good with their keyboards.
EDIT: But of course there is a lot more crap in your comparison. Blizzard’s main objective is to make money. All other considerations are subordinate to the profitability of the Starcraft franchise. At the same time, Blizzard has total control over SC2. The company controls access to BN and can change rules and balancing of the game whenever it chooses. You present blizzard as a fucking dictator who changes the game balance randomly without thinking about it just to make money. firthermore you say they dont give a shit about anything else ... this is so wrong man.
wow... you seem to be quite upset. I was merely pointing out the obvious: chess is primarily an intellectual game, SC2 is much more based on mechanics. Do you really want to dispute that?
I was in no way saying or implying that one game is better than the other. I was merely pointing out the huge difference between the two. Which brings me back to my main point: invoking chess when discussing SC2 strategy does not make sense.
I never understand why some people here get so upset when you say something seemingly or actually critical of SC2.
EDIT: As for the section on economics. I'm not even arguing anything. I'm just pointing out basic facts. Very uncontroversial ones at that. Blizzard, like any other company wants to make money. That's their main objective. They "care" about their fans only as much as they want to keep them as paying customers. No other business behaves any differently, and Blizzard is no exception to basic economic theory.
On January 10 2012 08:56 Bayyne wrote: Hey Rev, I don't know if you've read this, but I thought it was a pretty cool chess/sc2 entry. You might enjoy it.
This just doesn't seem right at all. I don't know why you think anyone who hits the keyboard quickly could make masters. More than 2% of the sc2 community can hit the keyboard fast.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/M9A6g.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/I64bH.jpg)
