In a lot of balance threads I read I frequently see a lot of people complaining about void rays. In particular, void rays with speed. People always say it was incredibly unbalanced and that Blizzard was smart to have removed the Void Ray speed upgrade when they did.

I personally have never seen a game even in beta where the Protoss player got Void Ray speed, so I would like to see if anyone has seen one.

Any VODs or replays where the upgrade "Flux Vanes" was researched, and the additional speed played any sort of part in the Protoss' victory would greatly be appreciated.

Thank youz.

The_Templar

your Country52797 Posts

November 04 2011 20:34 GMT

I don't have one, but I think harassment was too powerful with speed

CryMore

United States497 Posts

November 04 2011 20:38 GMT

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=174903

Speed ray guide from imake55. Check it out.

Talin

Montenegro10532 Posts

November 04 2011 20:40 GMT

If I remember correctly (don't quote me on it though), Blizzard claimed they received replays from a progamer illustrating a very abusive strategy based around Flux Veins. The way they said it always made me wonder what it really was.

Torenhire

United States11681 Posts

November 04 2011 20:42 GMT

They were pretty ridiculous. I doubt I have reps but they went REALLY fast with the upgrade, wish I could remember what to compare them to, but I remember upgrading them one 2v2 match and we were cracking up at how fast they went. I don't think anything could catch up to them, was the problem.

Pulimuli

Sweden2766 Posts

November 04 2011 20:44 GMT

They were pretty ridiculous with speed honestly, i remember getting raped by them every now and then when you werent prepared for it

Geovu

Estonia1344 Posts

November 04 2011 20:54 GMT

On November 05 2011 05:38 CryMore wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=174903

Speed ray guide from imake55. Check it out.

Thanks man, I remember that thread. If I didn't forget about it I would have mentioned "Any game besides the one in that thread" lol. Someone could make a 4 gating guide and fill it up with replays of him winning 10 games with it and it would look just as OP as that though.

I realize it still kind of deflates the point I was trying to make ;|

On November 05 2011 05:42 Torenhire wrote:
They were pretty ridiculous. I doubt I have reps but they went REALLY fast with the upgrade, wish I could remember what to compare them to, but I remember upgrading them one 2v2 match and we were cracking up at how fast they went. I don't think anything could catch up to them, was the problem.

You could say the exact same thing about Zerglings or Warp Prism.

Also the upgrade speed was nerfed before it was removed, but they only gave like 2 weeks in between patches or something ridiculous like that.
" Flux Vanes speed upgrade bonus decreased from 1.125 to 0.703"

Geovu

Estonia1344 Posts

November 04 2011 20:56 GMT

On November 05 2011 05:40 Talin wrote:
If I remember correctly (don't quote me on it though), Blizzard claimed they received replays from a progamer illustrating a very abusive strategy based around Flux Veins. The way they said it always made me wonder what it really was.

Third (Fourth?!) hand evidence isn't helpful LOL

Torenhire

United States11681 Posts

November 04 2011 21:02 GMT

So this is just a balance complaint then...

You're trying to say that Flux Vanes didn't need to be removed?

Geovu

Estonia1344 Posts

November 04 2011 21:06 GMT

#10

It's not a balance complaint (Where did I say Protoss UP 1/1/1 op etcetc), its just that I've never seen any games (besides the iamke55 ones) where they've been used before. I'd like to see as much as there is, as there is no point in having an opinion of something I have no experience about.

On November 05 2011 06:02 Torenhire wrote:
You're trying to say that Flux Vanes didn't need to be removed?

If you're going to be that direct then no I don't think they "needed" to be removed. I haven't seen enough proof. E.G. I also disagree with the amulet removal (lets not get into that tho) but at least I can see the reasoning as to why it was removed and games that can prove ones' point.

Torenhire

United States11681 Posts

November 04 2011 21:12 GMT

#11

Any VODs or replays where the upgrade "Flux Vanes" was researched, and the additional speed played any sort of part in the Protoss' victory would greatly be appreciated.

The way you're wording things made it sound like you were trying to prove that the Flux Vanes didn't need to be removed or something. There was supposed to be a question mark after my first sentence so that it was a question, not an accusation, lol.

Silidons

United States2813 Posts

November 04 2011 21:15 GMT

#12

i don't ever remember it being a problem in upper diamond league back in s1....

Blazinghand

United States25552 Posts

November 04 2011 21:23 GMT

#13

Seekers v NvMacSed (KR GM)
http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/download?id=3987

Kiwikaki v Machine (Pros)
http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/download?id=3461

Geovu

Estonia1344 Posts

November 04 2011 21:51 GMT

#14

On November 05 2011 06:23 Blazinghand wrote:
Seekers v NvMacSed (KR GM)
http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/download?id=3987

Kiwikaki v Machine (Pros)
http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/download?id=3461

Aren't those both in the speedray guide?

Blazinghand

United States25552 Posts

November 04 2011 21:54 GMT

#15

On November 05 2011 06:51 Geovu wrote:

Show nested quote +

Aren't those both in the speedray guide?

Yeah, I thought you didn't see them. Earlier in this thread you post:

On November 05 2011 05:54 Geovu wrote:

Show nested quote +

Which indicates that you only observed ONE game in that thread. I decided to grab the less prominent (non-image-linked) games by professionals and GMs and post them here, since there wasn't just "one" game in that thread; there were, rather, several.

It seems I was wrong and you did in fact see more than one game in that thread. Sorry I wasn't very helpful.

SpoR

United States1542 Posts

November 05 2011 02:22 GMT

#16

It wasn't a problem to many people because so many other things were just so much more of a problem at the time. It clearly had the biggest notice in team games and FFA where voids had the greater chance to be massed up from 1 or 2 bases with defense of an ally.

And this was back when voids did much more damage as well (and they had more range?).

It definitely would had some application into 1v1 top level play eventually, but blizzard caught it before it was a big issue. Hats off to blizzard on this one.