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I recently got my final project for my professional writing class in which I need to do a ten-page research proposal or feasibility study on the topic on my choice. Considering I have a security camera that points right into my window (I sadly live on the first floor of my dormitory), I decided upon a proposal to deactivate and remove security cameras from my campus (University of Maryland, if anyone is interested) since I feel like in addition to being a waste of resources - as they do not do anything - they are also a grievous violation of our basic rights to privacy.
Since we are apparently in middle school, we have a minimum number of required primary sources; that is where (hopefully!) you guys come in. From my limited knowledge of foreign affairs, I was under the assumption that Britain has really taken the "spying with cameras" concept to the next level, implementing it city-wide. So if you are British, and wouldn't mind doing a brief set of questions, could you please send me a PM? For the purposes of my assignment, I do not mind which side of the spectrum - for or against - you fall on, I just would enjoy hearing your opinions.
Same goes to anyone else reading this! How do you feel about security cameras? I'm really curious to hear some of your opinions on the matter.
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I think security camera's are a great tool if used conservatively and effectively.
The problem is that you start putting cameras in public places and people know where they are so they tend to shy away from any sort of wrong-doing in that area. Which then leads to adding more cameras to cover the areas that are not seen by the original camera(s). Which then leads to the 'nanny state' situation in the UK.
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Fucking hate them, being watched on every corner you turn sucks and everyone works out where they are so you still can't avoid fights.
Lived in England for 14-5 years total 0-10 -19-23
PM me if needed. I just finished a dissertation wish people could have helped me out there.
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United States24796 Posts
Lol which dorm/side are you in? Maryland '07 here.
Yeah I find the way UK handles that stuff both interesting and scary... glad the US hasn't gone to that extreme.
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I've been living in Britain since this September, but I really don't care about cameras (CCTV).
It's a good way to prevent criminality if they're used effectively. ^^
Besides, I don't see any reason to be shy or something if you don't intend to hide something that is illegal. Of course, I'm against cameras in private places such as toilets.
Edit: it can be useful in cases like this ^^
http://prikachi.com/images/549/3967549K.png (removed things that probably shouldn't be shown)
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Thanks Freudian! I'll PM you when I write up the questions (just to make sure they cover everything).
And I live in Denton, on North Campus. The room came with a pamphlet telling us not to worry about the asbestos and lead in the walls, as they are probably safe.
I just hope the US doesn't go to that extreme anytime soon. Most of the students here don't seem to think being watched is a problem; I'm convinced you could have police following them around as long as they could get on Facebook.
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You don't even notice the cameras most of the time. Its really this simple.... If you aren't doing anything wrong, then why do you care if you are being filmed walking along a street?
Anyway, the cameras are only in areas of high crime, shopping centers, bars etc. You won't find any cameras down the street you live, you might if you live on campus as a Uni but that's a little different. The cameras reduce crime, help police catch criminals and stop trouble makers getting in to pubs/clubs.
In the town where I live, every square foot of our town center (massive shopping center) is covered by a camera, the cameras are controlled by a group who have a direct line to the police and every shop/pub/club within its limits. If you break a law, the police are there within minutes. They also use them to stop people who are on this thing called a B.O.B.B (Behave Or Be Banned) scheme for pubs/clubs, if you are on the list and you are spotted, they alert the pubs to be on the lookout for you and to not let you in. They also stop people who hav just been thrown out of one pub from getting in to another 5 minutes later.
Our laws prevent cameras from being placed inside toilets. Well the Men's anyways, the girls ones can have cameras in them so long as they can't see in to the cubicles if memory serves.
Personally, I feel safer with them than I would without. I am a drug user, i break my share of laws, but these cameras can't tell if I'm smokin a spliff or a cigarette and even if they could.... i Don't walk around the streets smokin weed. I do it at home or at a mates house.
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England6749 Posts
we only have tea and biscuits
no camera kk
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I'm a natural born British citizen, and I can't really say I notice them or they bother me to a massive degree. I feel like I should be bothered as an invasion of privacy, on principle, but a case in point, I was once assaulted, and I did ask the police if there was a possibility of CCTV footage, but they basically said that where none in the square mile where my assault took place.
I think the whole "Britain as a surveillance society" notion is a little over blown, and your view of the world can be distorted by reading too much of the gutter press (Daily mail, Sun, etc)
I would recommend if you really want to flesh out your report that you get some stats from the office for national statistics (ONS), or somewhere like that.
Should be freely available if you just ask.
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Was in London for 3 years for Uni, didn't really care much about them, to be honest, it doesn't really affect your life, unless you are doing something bad, of course. You don't really get the "Big Brother is watching" feeling.
If one was looking into my room, though, I'd be quite uncomfortable with that. I'd get the thickest curtains, and never open them.
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United States24796 Posts
On October 26 2011 10:45 emythrel wrote:
You don't even notice the cameras most of the time. Its really this simple.... If you aren't doing anything wrong, then why do you care if you are being filmed walking along a street?
Because people often get wrongfully accused of crimes and other things... I am always afraid of the mentality that people who are innocent have nothing to hide... (read: fifth amendment in USA)
Then again, I think cameras in high-traffic public areas are still necessary. I just think having them everywhere (like every block of residential streets with your property in full view) is overkill and infringing on my rights.
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The basic trend I'm getting is that they are generally a good thing - or more so, that they are something that don't bother most of the people (minus Freudian - and me, but I'm trying to be impartial for the moment here  ).
Just a quick follow-up though: does it matter who has control of the footage? For example, would you rather have the government or private security firms owning it? Should it be made public, or would you be appalled if it was made public?
I understand where most people are coming from with not minding cameras in very trafficked areas, as the common interpretation of laws these days is that we have a reduced right to privacy in public areas. But how would you feel if the cameras where in the halls of your apartment buildings? Would it massively change your opinion if they were in your home? And why?
Thanks for all the responses so far!
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On October 26 2011 11:07 SevenBunnies wrote:The basic trend I'm getting is that they are generally a good thing - or more so, that they are something that don't bother most of the people (minus Freudian - and me, but I'm trying to be impartial for the moment here ). Just a quick follow-up though: does it matter who has control of the footage? For example, would you rather have the government or private security firms owning it? Should it be made public, or would you be appalled if it was made public? I understand where most people are coming from with not minding cameras in very trafficked areas, as the common interpretation of laws these days is that we have a reduced right to privacy in public areas. But how would you feel if the cameras where in the halls of your apartment buildings? Would it massively change your opinion if they were in your home? And why? Thanks for all the responses so far!
G4S controls a surprisingly large amount of it which worries me even more considering the history of said company.
The only country to even rival the UK for it's conspiracy to destroy the right to privacy (while upholding privacy for the super rich through super injucntions I might add) is Italy with it's phone tapping.
In the UK crime rates have dropped every year while an increase on CCTV occurs every year. Now they want microphones installed onto lamp posts. It's fucking disgusting.
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England6749 Posts
On October 26 2011 11:04 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 10:45 emythrel wrote:
You don't even notice the cameras most of the time. Its really this simple.... If you aren't doing anything wrong, then why do you care if you are being filmed walking along a street? Because people often get wrongfully accused of crimes and other things... I am always afraid of the mentality that people who are innocent have nothing to hide... (read: fifth amendment in USA) Then again, I think cameras in high-traffic public areas are still necessary. I just think having them everywhere (like every block of residential streets with your property in full view) is overkill and infringing on my rights.
more information can surely only lead to less miscarriages of justice, what is the logical underpinning of your first paragraph? i dont follow.
your second paragraph is really abitrary. high traffic areas is an opinion, does that include dense population areas like housing blocks (where we have cameras) orrr.... where is the line? they say there is thousands of cameras in london, but as a frequent visitor you dont notice them, or atleast im so desensitized it doesnt even register.
the thing about cctv cameras for me is that they cant catch anything more than what anyone could see if they were there instead, imagine if every camera was replaced by a policeman just standing there taking notes. no one would complain and it would be a much much worse system.
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The whole CCTV thing is so ridiculously overblown, France and other countries have just as many now and they don't seem to be complaining. You can PM me questions if you want, I'm about to go to bed but I'll answer in the morning.
Every British person knows that even if the government did want to get some kind of 'Big Brother' thing on the go they're not competent enough to actually run it lol.
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I don't really see what argument people you can make against security cameras really. (Except if there’s actually one literally pointing into your room then that’s obviously to intrusive.) However most cameras are in public places and to be honest what do you have to hide in public. They help make city centres much more peaceful (the British are known for fighting and getting unnecessarily aggressive after drinking too much which they/we always do). Any sensible person with a remote brain will not fight in the middle of the city because they know it will be filmed. Off course a lot of people are either to stupid (perhaps to drunk) or don't care and fight anyway but at least you can try and work out what happened from the footage.
You would be amazed how many prosecutions CTV evidence actually leads too.
If you don't have anything to hide then I don't see why you can have a problem. It’s not like they're filming you in your own home. I’m English by the way.
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United States24796 Posts
On October 26 2011 12:41 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 11:04 micronesia wrote:On October 26 2011 10:45 emythrel wrote:
You don't even notice the cameras most of the time. Its really this simple.... If you aren't doing anything wrong, then why do you care if you are being filmed walking along a street? Because people often get wrongfully accused of crimes and other things... I am always afraid of the mentality that people who are innocent have nothing to hide... (read: fifth amendment in USA) Then again, I think cameras in high-traffic public areas are still necessary. I just think having them everywhere (like every block of residential streets with your property in full view) is overkill and infringing on my rights. more information can surely only lead to less miscarriages of justice, what is the logical underpinning of your first paragraph? i dont follow. My counterexample was stated already: fifth amendment.
your second paragraph is really abitrary. high traffic areas is an opinion, does that include dense population areas like housing blocks (where we have cameras) orrr.... where is the line? they say there is thousands of cameras in london, but as a frequent visitor you dont notice them, or atleast im so desensitized it doesnt even register. The line has to be somewhat arbitrary if we don't allow one million cameras per square inch for every spot of public territory, but allow at least one camera in public somewhere. Just because its arbitrary doesn't mean I can't be of the opinion that what England has is too much or what the USA has is too little (for example). I'm just saying cameras in public aren't evil but should be limited in how much they are used... if you want an exact figure I cannot give you one but I think commercial/industrial public areas should generally have them as an option where they should be less available in residential areas.
the thing about cctv cameras for me is that they cant catch anything more than what anyone could see if they were there instead, imagine if every camera was replaced by a policeman just standing there taking notes. no one would complain and it would be a much much worse system. If there were cops standing in front of my property every day (in a neighborhood) looking around for crime, if I was the average citizen, I would definitely complain. Of course if my block was known to have daily shootings I would be more inviting lol
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England6749 Posts
not all of us are aware of all american constitutional amendments off by heart and dont want to have to look it up at 5am :D
it would be odd to have so many police but my point was merely that people seem more afraid of cameras for no reason.
i know the line has to be decided at some 'random' point i just dont know what it should be. the village where i live has none, but then again we have no crime so what purpose would they serve. its difficult and i imagine it would have to be a case by case basis but housing is a tough subject, people like their privacy even here  normally im the kind of guy who is all for defending freedom, im against random checking of most things, like street searching and drug tests (shows my own bias :D) but im ok with cameras. for me it just comes down to the point i made before, cameras cant see any more than a random stranger could see, they arent searching your house or clothes and they arent invading your space.
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EPT
