• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:02
CEST 13:02
KST 20:02
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners1Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection6Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June2Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th151Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League6
StarCraft 2
General
TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview
Tourneys
Douyu Cup 2026 Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum
Brood War
General
Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW fans in southern Sweden, look here! 25 Years Since Brood War Patch 1.08 BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST [ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread PC Games Sales Thread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Summer Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Esportsmanship: How to NOT B…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6836 users

Team strategy and bracket fixing

Blogs > Eternalmisfit
Post a Reply
Eternalmisfit
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States643 Posts
September 25 2011 15:28 GMT
#1
I don't think there's anything wrong with two teammates deciding who they want to advance without actually playing the games (especially when there is strategy involved like pool play/double elim tours). While not everyone shares this belief, I think it should be embraced since of course it's impossible to know if teammates arrange who will win if they put any effort into it.


Seen team drivers in F1 let their teammates pass etc multiple times with no repercussions. Same in a lot of sports with a notion of teams but only one winner per event. I don't know, it's controversial, but it needs to be clearly stated in a tournament's rules that you can be disqualified for throwing games. Which is pretty tough to enforce.


Don't be so dramatic. They aren't rigging the tournament to make money off betting, they're simply deciding as a team what is best. I don't see what is ethically questionable about this decision making. We don't need another drama thread on r/starcraft


you should only talk about things that you are remotely familiar with. teams throw games all the time in real sports. it is most commonly seen in the nba to snipe a particular playoff seed, but it has been seen in the nfl, nhl, and nba as well. teams bench all their starters and play their backups and get beat easily. and its perfectly accepted. in individual games/sports that competitors have teammates, stuff like this has been going on FOREVER. throwing matches for money is one thing, but throwing a match that means nothing for seeding reasons to benefit a teammate should not be treated as some crime. stop acting so entitled, as if players exist only to entertain you and as if some non-elimination match of a QUALIFIER of a 3rd-rate tourney is the fucking super bowl of starcraft.


In a recent tournament, a player threw away two games to a team-mate since he had planned to forfeit and stop playing the tournament. Now, the specific event that happened might not have a direct bearing to this blog post and I don't want to discuss that specific event at hand but the reaction that ensued made me wonder about several things.

The first thing that comes to my mind is why do people even find it acceptable for team-mates to collude and/or bracket fix. Something like that makes a mockery of the game and definitely had an influence third party players and/or viewership experience. SC2 is primarily an individual based game and the notion of team (with respect to the tournament bracket/structure) is usually not present apart from specific team leagues. Thus, I am shocked to see people accepting 'match-fixing' if done by team-mates.

These posts beget the question that at what point does collusion become non-acceptable. Of course, when money starts changing hands, it seems obvious. But before that, is it fine that two good friends (but not team-mates) collude to get favorable bracket positioning. Can two strangers collude for and do something similar?

A specific example would be a group consisting of players A, B, C, D, and E. Let us assume that player A had won the group after playing 3 games and is playing player B who needs a win to come in second and qualify for the next round. If players A and B are team-mates, would people find it acceptable that player A throws the game so that his team-mate can qualify. For some people that I quoted, this seems perfectly acceptable and lies in the realm of team strategy. For some others, it seems to lie in the grey area but still alright since it is between team-mates.

Now let us say players A and B were from the same country (or good friends) and not team-mates. Would a similar event (A throwing the game) deemed acceptable? After all, both of them are looking after their best interests which is no different from that of two team-mates. Specifically since the notion of the team holds no significance for the bracket and it deems all players as equal in its view.

A final question that pops up in my mind after this is:
'Is SC2 a team centric game where decisions like throwing matches to team-mates, or deliberately losing matches so that your team-mate gets favorable advantage is considered a strategically sound plan (OR) Is SC2 an individual centric game where the notion of the team is non-existent in terms of the bracket and should be discarded once the event begins?'
Obviously it is not exactly black or white like stated above but to what extent does it lean towards either side.

*
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-25 17:43:14
September 25 2011 15:35 GMT
#2
It's unacceptable and unethical. I've always assumed tournaments make sure in pool play they have teammates play each other first so no late colluding can occur. In bracket play generally players won't have a good reason to lose on purpose for a teammate so it shouldn't be much of an issue. Tournament runners/sponsors would also have obvious problems with it seeing how entertaining their audience is of high priority to make money.
SnowFantasy
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
4173 Posts
September 25 2011 15:41 GMT
#3
I remember thinking at the time that Firebathero did this when Stork beat him to play in the MSL Finals against Bisu.

I'm sure it happens sometimes but it isn't something I would support.
deathly rat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United Kingdom911 Posts
September 25 2011 15:42 GMT
#4
Nobody thinks it is morally correct in any sport, the issue is that it is impossible to legislate effectively against.
No logo (logo)
ClysmiC
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2192 Posts
September 25 2011 15:51 GMT
#5
On September 26 2011 00:42 deathly rat wrote:
Nobody thinks it is morally correct in any sport, the issue is that it is impossible to legislate effectively against.

He hit the nail on the head. There's no real way to tell if someone is throwing a game or if they just get "outplayed."
deafhobbit
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States828 Posts
September 25 2011 22:53 GMT
#6
It's inevitable, and if you ban it you'll never be able to enforce the ban. Moreover, there's nothing wrong with it, so long as people are open about it.
I cheer for underdogs and Flash
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PondCast
10:00
Episode 96
CranKy Ducklings45
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Rex 57
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 6076
Calm 5573
Mini 558
firebathero 420
Horang2 389
Hyuk 313
BeSt 268
Zeus 213
actioN 193
Snow 184
[ Show more ]
Light 172
Rush 156
Last 108
Dewaltoss 89
Hyun 79
ToSsGirL 55
Sharp 48
Mind 47
Backho 45
JYJ 31
sSak 31
Free 31
scan(afreeca) 27
910 25
sorry 23
Soulkey 21
Barracks 19
Sacsri 18
GoRush 18
soO 16
yabsab 16
Hm[arnc] 15
Noble 14
IntoTheRainbow 11
Movie 9
Terrorterran 8
Dota 2
XaKoH 368
Dendi73
XcaliburYe55
League of Legends
JimRising 426
Counter-Strike
fl0m4910
olofmeister1726
shoxiejesuss556
zeus240
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King116
Other Games
singsing1031
Lowko727
B2W.Neo347
crisheroes261
Happy108
Sick83
SortOf32
RuFF_SC223
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 1274
Other Games
gamesdonequick597
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 27
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP13
• iHatsuTV 4
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis5745
• Stunt2245
Upcoming Events
Maestros of the Game
3h 59m
Serral vs Rogue
herO vs SHIN
OSC
11h 29m
Replay Cast
12h 59m
OSC
1d 1h
Maestros of the Game
1d 2h
Replay Cast
1d 12h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 22h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
2 days
eOnzErG vs Mihu
Messiah vs XuanXuan
Jaystar vs TerrOr
Dewalt vs Bonyth
eOnzErG vs XuanXuan
Mihu vs TerrOr
Messiah vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
3 days
Jaystar vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs TerrOr
XuanXuan vs Bonyth
Mihu vs Dewalt
Messiah vs Jaystar
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
TerrOr vs Dewalt
OSC
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 22
2026 GSL S2
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
Acropolis #4 - GSB
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Murky Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #3
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.