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Team strategy and bracket fixing

Blogs > Eternalmisfit
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Eternalmisfit
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States643 Posts
September 25 2011 15:28 GMT
#1
I don't think there's anything wrong with two teammates deciding who they want to advance without actually playing the games (especially when there is strategy involved like pool play/double elim tours). While not everyone shares this belief, I think it should be embraced since of course it's impossible to know if teammates arrange who will win if they put any effort into it.


Seen team drivers in F1 let their teammates pass etc multiple times with no repercussions. Same in a lot of sports with a notion of teams but only one winner per event. I don't know, it's controversial, but it needs to be clearly stated in a tournament's rules that you can be disqualified for throwing games. Which is pretty tough to enforce.


Don't be so dramatic. They aren't rigging the tournament to make money off betting, they're simply deciding as a team what is best. I don't see what is ethically questionable about this decision making. We don't need another drama thread on r/starcraft


you should only talk about things that you are remotely familiar with. teams throw games all the time in real sports. it is most commonly seen in the nba to snipe a particular playoff seed, but it has been seen in the nfl, nhl, and nba as well. teams bench all their starters and play their backups and get beat easily. and its perfectly accepted. in individual games/sports that competitors have teammates, stuff like this has been going on FOREVER. throwing matches for money is one thing, but throwing a match that means nothing for seeding reasons to benefit a teammate should not be treated as some crime. stop acting so entitled, as if players exist only to entertain you and as if some non-elimination match of a QUALIFIER of a 3rd-rate tourney is the fucking super bowl of starcraft.


In a recent tournament, a player threw away two games to a team-mate since he had planned to forfeit and stop playing the tournament. Now, the specific event that happened might not have a direct bearing to this blog post and I don't want to discuss that specific event at hand but the reaction that ensued made me wonder about several things.

The first thing that comes to my mind is why do people even find it acceptable for team-mates to collude and/or bracket fix. Something like that makes a mockery of the game and definitely had an influence third party players and/or viewership experience. SC2 is primarily an individual based game and the notion of team (with respect to the tournament bracket/structure) is usually not present apart from specific team leagues. Thus, I am shocked to see people accepting 'match-fixing' if done by team-mates.

These posts beget the question that at what point does collusion become non-acceptable. Of course, when money starts changing hands, it seems obvious. But before that, is it fine that two good friends (but not team-mates) collude to get favorable bracket positioning. Can two strangers collude for and do something similar?

A specific example would be a group consisting of players A, B, C, D, and E. Let us assume that player A had won the group after playing 3 games and is playing player B who needs a win to come in second and qualify for the next round. If players A and B are team-mates, would people find it acceptable that player A throws the game so that his team-mate can qualify. For some people that I quoted, this seems perfectly acceptable and lies in the realm of team strategy. For some others, it seems to lie in the grey area but still alright since it is between team-mates.

Now let us say players A and B were from the same country (or good friends) and not team-mates. Would a similar event (A throwing the game) deemed acceptable? After all, both of them are looking after their best interests which is no different from that of two team-mates. Specifically since the notion of the team holds no significance for the bracket and it deems all players as equal in its view.

A final question that pops up in my mind after this is:
'Is SC2 a team centric game where decisions like throwing matches to team-mates, or deliberately losing matches so that your team-mate gets favorable advantage is considered a strategically sound plan (OR) Is SC2 an individual centric game where the notion of the team is non-existent in terms of the bracket and should be discarded once the event begins?'
Obviously it is not exactly black or white like stated above but to what extent does it lean towards either side.

*
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-25 17:43:14
September 25 2011 15:35 GMT
#2
It's unacceptable and unethical. I've always assumed tournaments make sure in pool play they have teammates play each other first so no late colluding can occur. In bracket play generally players won't have a good reason to lose on purpose for a teammate so it shouldn't be much of an issue. Tournament runners/sponsors would also have obvious problems with it seeing how entertaining their audience is of high priority to make money.
SnowFantasy
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
4173 Posts
September 25 2011 15:41 GMT
#3
I remember thinking at the time that Firebathero did this when Stork beat him to play in the MSL Finals against Bisu.

I'm sure it happens sometimes but it isn't something I would support.
deathly rat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United Kingdom911 Posts
September 25 2011 15:42 GMT
#4
Nobody thinks it is morally correct in any sport, the issue is that it is impossible to legislate effectively against.
No logo (logo)
ClysmiC
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2192 Posts
September 25 2011 15:51 GMT
#5
On September 26 2011 00:42 deathly rat wrote:
Nobody thinks it is morally correct in any sport, the issue is that it is impossible to legislate effectively against.

He hit the nail on the head. There's no real way to tell if someone is throwing a game or if they just get "outplayed."
deafhobbit
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States828 Posts
September 25 2011 22:53 GMT
#6
It's inevitable, and if you ban it you'll never be able to enforce the ban. Moreover, there's nothing wrong with it, so long as people are open about it.
I cheer for underdogs and Flash
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