• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 20:35
CET 02:35
KST 10:35
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !11Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2
StarCraft 2
General
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced! What's the best tug of war? The Grack before Christmas Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies
Tourneys
OSC Season 13 World Championship $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement
Brood War
General
How soO Began His ProGaming Dreams BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Recommended FPV games (post-KeSPA) BW General Discussion FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle
Tourneys
[BSL21] WB & LB Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] LB SemiFinals - Saturday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Mechabellum Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread How Does UI/UX Design Influence User Trust? Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
National Diversity: A Challe…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1001 users

Team strategy and bracket fixing

Blogs > Eternalmisfit
Post a Reply
Eternalmisfit
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States643 Posts
September 25 2011 15:28 GMT
#1
I don't think there's anything wrong with two teammates deciding who they want to advance without actually playing the games (especially when there is strategy involved like pool play/double elim tours). While not everyone shares this belief, I think it should be embraced since of course it's impossible to know if teammates arrange who will win if they put any effort into it.


Seen team drivers in F1 let their teammates pass etc multiple times with no repercussions. Same in a lot of sports with a notion of teams but only one winner per event. I don't know, it's controversial, but it needs to be clearly stated in a tournament's rules that you can be disqualified for throwing games. Which is pretty tough to enforce.


Don't be so dramatic. They aren't rigging the tournament to make money off betting, they're simply deciding as a team what is best. I don't see what is ethically questionable about this decision making. We don't need another drama thread on r/starcraft


you should only talk about things that you are remotely familiar with. teams throw games all the time in real sports. it is most commonly seen in the nba to snipe a particular playoff seed, but it has been seen in the nfl, nhl, and nba as well. teams bench all their starters and play their backups and get beat easily. and its perfectly accepted. in individual games/sports that competitors have teammates, stuff like this has been going on FOREVER. throwing matches for money is one thing, but throwing a match that means nothing for seeding reasons to benefit a teammate should not be treated as some crime. stop acting so entitled, as if players exist only to entertain you and as if some non-elimination match of a QUALIFIER of a 3rd-rate tourney is the fucking super bowl of starcraft.


In a recent tournament, a player threw away two games to a team-mate since he had planned to forfeit and stop playing the tournament. Now, the specific event that happened might not have a direct bearing to this blog post and I don't want to discuss that specific event at hand but the reaction that ensued made me wonder about several things.

The first thing that comes to my mind is why do people even find it acceptable for team-mates to collude and/or bracket fix. Something like that makes a mockery of the game and definitely had an influence third party players and/or viewership experience. SC2 is primarily an individual based game and the notion of team (with respect to the tournament bracket/structure) is usually not present apart from specific team leagues. Thus, I am shocked to see people accepting 'match-fixing' if done by team-mates.

These posts beget the question that at what point does collusion become non-acceptable. Of course, when money starts changing hands, it seems obvious. But before that, is it fine that two good friends (but not team-mates) collude to get favorable bracket positioning. Can two strangers collude for and do something similar?

A specific example would be a group consisting of players A, B, C, D, and E. Let us assume that player A had won the group after playing 3 games and is playing player B who needs a win to come in second and qualify for the next round. If players A and B are team-mates, would people find it acceptable that player A throws the game so that his team-mate can qualify. For some people that I quoted, this seems perfectly acceptable and lies in the realm of team strategy. For some others, it seems to lie in the grey area but still alright since it is between team-mates.

Now let us say players A and B were from the same country (or good friends) and not team-mates. Would a similar event (A throwing the game) deemed acceptable? After all, both of them are looking after their best interests which is no different from that of two team-mates. Specifically since the notion of the team holds no significance for the bracket and it deems all players as equal in its view.

A final question that pops up in my mind after this is:
'Is SC2 a team centric game where decisions like throwing matches to team-mates, or deliberately losing matches so that your team-mate gets favorable advantage is considered a strategically sound plan (OR) Is SC2 an individual centric game where the notion of the team is non-existent in terms of the bracket and should be discarded once the event begins?'
Obviously it is not exactly black or white like stated above but to what extent does it lean towards either side.

*
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-25 17:43:14
September 25 2011 15:35 GMT
#2
It's unacceptable and unethical. I've always assumed tournaments make sure in pool play they have teammates play each other first so no late colluding can occur. In bracket play generally players won't have a good reason to lose on purpose for a teammate so it shouldn't be much of an issue. Tournament runners/sponsors would also have obvious problems with it seeing how entertaining their audience is of high priority to make money.
SnowFantasy
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
4173 Posts
September 25 2011 15:41 GMT
#3
I remember thinking at the time that Firebathero did this when Stork beat him to play in the MSL Finals against Bisu.

I'm sure it happens sometimes but it isn't something I would support.
deathly rat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United Kingdom911 Posts
September 25 2011 15:42 GMT
#4
Nobody thinks it is morally correct in any sport, the issue is that it is impossible to legislate effectively against.
No logo (logo)
ClysmiC
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2192 Posts
September 25 2011 15:51 GMT
#5
On September 26 2011 00:42 deathly rat wrote:
Nobody thinks it is morally correct in any sport, the issue is that it is impossible to legislate effectively against.

He hit the nail on the head. There's no real way to tell if someone is throwing a game or if they just get "outplayed."
deafhobbit
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States828 Posts
September 25 2011 22:53 GMT
#6
It's inevitable, and if you ban it you'll never be able to enforce the ban. Moreover, there's nothing wrong with it, so long as people are open about it.
I cheer for underdogs and Flash
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
01:00
StarCraft Evolution League #17
CranKy Ducklings68
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nathanias 180
JuggernautJason76
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 14528
Shuttle 78
scan(afreeca) 59
NaDa 26
Hm[arnc] 12
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm119
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor197
Other Games
summit1g7932
tarik_tv6045
fl0m886
JimRising 427
Maynarde174
ViBE79
ZombieGrub52
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1123
BasetradeTV49
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH125
• Hupsaiya 83
• RyuSc2 58
• davetesta32
• mYiSmile14
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 49
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22883
League of Legends
• Doublelift5937
Other Games
• imaqtpie2272
• Scarra1658
Upcoming Events
BSL 21
18h 25m
Sziky vs eOnzErG
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 8h
Krystianer vs TBD
TriGGeR vs SKillous
Percival vs TBD
ByuN vs Nicoract
OSC
1d 16h
BSL 21
1d 18h
Cross vs Dewalt
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
OSC
3 days
Solar vs MaxPax
ByuN vs Krystianer
Spirit vs TBD
OSC
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Slon Tour Season 2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.