• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 10:16
CET 16:16
KST 00:16
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview5RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced
Tourneys
RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Tenacious Turtle Tussle 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft2.fi 15th Anniversary Cup
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest BW General Discussion Let's talk about Metropolis
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO8 - Day 1 - Saturday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
How Sleep Deprivation Affect…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1124 users

Team strategy and bracket fixing

Blogs > Eternalmisfit
Post a Reply
Eternalmisfit
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States643 Posts
September 25 2011 15:28 GMT
#1
I don't think there's anything wrong with two teammates deciding who they want to advance without actually playing the games (especially when there is strategy involved like pool play/double elim tours). While not everyone shares this belief, I think it should be embraced since of course it's impossible to know if teammates arrange who will win if they put any effort into it.


Seen team drivers in F1 let their teammates pass etc multiple times with no repercussions. Same in a lot of sports with a notion of teams but only one winner per event. I don't know, it's controversial, but it needs to be clearly stated in a tournament's rules that you can be disqualified for throwing games. Which is pretty tough to enforce.


Don't be so dramatic. They aren't rigging the tournament to make money off betting, they're simply deciding as a team what is best. I don't see what is ethically questionable about this decision making. We don't need another drama thread on r/starcraft


you should only talk about things that you are remotely familiar with. teams throw games all the time in real sports. it is most commonly seen in the nba to snipe a particular playoff seed, but it has been seen in the nfl, nhl, and nba as well. teams bench all their starters and play their backups and get beat easily. and its perfectly accepted. in individual games/sports that competitors have teammates, stuff like this has been going on FOREVER. throwing matches for money is one thing, but throwing a match that means nothing for seeding reasons to benefit a teammate should not be treated as some crime. stop acting so entitled, as if players exist only to entertain you and as if some non-elimination match of a QUALIFIER of a 3rd-rate tourney is the fucking super bowl of starcraft.


In a recent tournament, a player threw away two games to a team-mate since he had planned to forfeit and stop playing the tournament. Now, the specific event that happened might not have a direct bearing to this blog post and I don't want to discuss that specific event at hand but the reaction that ensued made me wonder about several things.

The first thing that comes to my mind is why do people even find it acceptable for team-mates to collude and/or bracket fix. Something like that makes a mockery of the game and definitely had an influence third party players and/or viewership experience. SC2 is primarily an individual based game and the notion of team (with respect to the tournament bracket/structure) is usually not present apart from specific team leagues. Thus, I am shocked to see people accepting 'match-fixing' if done by team-mates.

These posts beget the question that at what point does collusion become non-acceptable. Of course, when money starts changing hands, it seems obvious. But before that, is it fine that two good friends (but not team-mates) collude to get favorable bracket positioning. Can two strangers collude for and do something similar?

A specific example would be a group consisting of players A, B, C, D, and E. Let us assume that player A had won the group after playing 3 games and is playing player B who needs a win to come in second and qualify for the next round. If players A and B are team-mates, would people find it acceptable that player A throws the game so that his team-mate can qualify. For some people that I quoted, this seems perfectly acceptable and lies in the realm of team strategy. For some others, it seems to lie in the grey area but still alright since it is between team-mates.

Now let us say players A and B were from the same country (or good friends) and not team-mates. Would a similar event (A throwing the game) deemed acceptable? After all, both of them are looking after their best interests which is no different from that of two team-mates. Specifically since the notion of the team holds no significance for the bracket and it deems all players as equal in its view.

A final question that pops up in my mind after this is:
'Is SC2 a team centric game where decisions like throwing matches to team-mates, or deliberately losing matches so that your team-mate gets favorable advantage is considered a strategically sound plan (OR) Is SC2 an individual centric game where the notion of the team is non-existent in terms of the bracket and should be discarded once the event begins?'
Obviously it is not exactly black or white like stated above but to what extent does it lean towards either side.

*
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-25 17:43:14
September 25 2011 15:35 GMT
#2
It's unacceptable and unethical. I've always assumed tournaments make sure in pool play they have teammates play each other first so no late colluding can occur. In bracket play generally players won't have a good reason to lose on purpose for a teammate so it shouldn't be much of an issue. Tournament runners/sponsors would also have obvious problems with it seeing how entertaining their audience is of high priority to make money.
SnowFantasy
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
4173 Posts
September 25 2011 15:41 GMT
#3
I remember thinking at the time that Firebathero did this when Stork beat him to play in the MSL Finals against Bisu.

I'm sure it happens sometimes but it isn't something I would support.
deathly rat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United Kingdom911 Posts
September 25 2011 15:42 GMT
#4
Nobody thinks it is morally correct in any sport, the issue is that it is impossible to legislate effectively against.
No logo (logo)
ClysmiC
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2192 Posts
September 25 2011 15:51 GMT
#5
On September 26 2011 00:42 deathly rat wrote:
Nobody thinks it is morally correct in any sport, the issue is that it is impossible to legislate effectively against.

He hit the nail on the head. There's no real way to tell if someone is throwing a game or if they just get "outplayed."
deafhobbit
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States828 Posts
September 25 2011 22:53 GMT
#6
It's inevitable, and if you ban it you'll never be able to enforce the ban. Moreover, there's nothing wrong with it, so long as people are open about it.
I cheer for underdogs and Flash
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
StarCraft2.fi
10:00
15V Cup / Offline Finals
starcraft2fi 273
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
LamboSC2 172
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 35425
Bisu 1853
Horang2 1699
Light 1006
EffOrt 940
Stork 760
Jaedong 622
firebathero 378
hero 330
BeSt 307
[ Show more ]
Rush 240
Mini 209
Killer 197
Hyun 169
Last 113
Larva 108
Leta 89
Mind 77
sorry 48
Noble 29
Mong 26
Movie 24
Terrorterran 23
yabsab 23
soO 21
Rock 21
Aegong 20
ajuk12(nOOB) 15
Sacsri 14
Bale 13
Shine 10
NaDa 9
Dota 2
Gorgc6601
singsing3633
qojqva1961
XcaliburYe193
League of Legends
C9.Mang0380
Counter-Strike
edward197
oskar128
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor372
Other Games
FrodaN3202
Grubby3156
B2W.Neo1243
Lowko481
Beastyqt357
KnowMe116
XaKoH 83
Mew2King43
Trikslyr22
Organizations
StarCraft 2
ComeBackTV 834
Other Games
EGCTV621
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV393
League of Legends
• Jankos3421
Other Games
• Scarra1214
Upcoming Events
IPSL
1h 44m
Sziky vs JDConan
OSC
1h 44m
Solar vs Percival
Gerald vs Nicoract
Creator vs ByuN
BSL 21
4h 44m
Sziky vs StRyKeR
Hawk vs Dewalt
RSL Revival
13h 14m
Classic vs Reynor
herO vs Zoun
WardiTV 2025
21h 44m
herO vs ShoWTimE
SHIN vs herO
Clem vs herO
SHIN vs Clem
SHIN vs ShoWTimE
Clem vs ShoWTimE
IPSL
1d 1h
Tarson vs DragOn
BSL 21
1d 4h
Tech vs Cross
Bonyth vs eOnzErG
Replay Cast
1d 17h
Wardi Open
1d 20h
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
SC Evo League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Revival: Season 3
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
WardiTV 2025
RSL Offline Finals
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.