• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:53
CEST 04:53
KST 11:53
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League32Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.163Rollback Netcode in Brood War1295.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202624Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.16 No more sc2 streamers on team liquid? Server Blocker SCII needs to put more weight on strategy and tact Terran AddOns placement
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) $3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
[Megathread] Daily Funny Videos BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Rollback Netcode in Brood War Hands of Pluto Mineral gathering rate (boosted) for each patch
Tourneys
[ASL22] Grand Finals [$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread The Chess Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
The Link Between Gaming and …
TrAiDoS
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9401 users

Team strategy and bracket fixing

Blogs > Eternalmisfit
Post a Reply
Eternalmisfit
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States643 Posts
September 25 2011 15:28 GMT
#1
I don't think there's anything wrong with two teammates deciding who they want to advance without actually playing the games (especially when there is strategy involved like pool play/double elim tours). While not everyone shares this belief, I think it should be embraced since of course it's impossible to know if teammates arrange who will win if they put any effort into it.


Seen team drivers in F1 let their teammates pass etc multiple times with no repercussions. Same in a lot of sports with a notion of teams but only one winner per event. I don't know, it's controversial, but it needs to be clearly stated in a tournament's rules that you can be disqualified for throwing games. Which is pretty tough to enforce.


Don't be so dramatic. They aren't rigging the tournament to make money off betting, they're simply deciding as a team what is best. I don't see what is ethically questionable about this decision making. We don't need another drama thread on r/starcraft


you should only talk about things that you are remotely familiar with. teams throw games all the time in real sports. it is most commonly seen in the nba to snipe a particular playoff seed, but it has been seen in the nfl, nhl, and nba as well. teams bench all their starters and play their backups and get beat easily. and its perfectly accepted. in individual games/sports that competitors have teammates, stuff like this has been going on FOREVER. throwing matches for money is one thing, but throwing a match that means nothing for seeding reasons to benefit a teammate should not be treated as some crime. stop acting so entitled, as if players exist only to entertain you and as if some non-elimination match of a QUALIFIER of a 3rd-rate tourney is the fucking super bowl of starcraft.


In a recent tournament, a player threw away two games to a team-mate since he had planned to forfeit and stop playing the tournament. Now, the specific event that happened might not have a direct bearing to this blog post and I don't want to discuss that specific event at hand but the reaction that ensued made me wonder about several things.

The first thing that comes to my mind is why do people even find it acceptable for team-mates to collude and/or bracket fix. Something like that makes a mockery of the game and definitely had an influence third party players and/or viewership experience. SC2 is primarily an individual based game and the notion of team (with respect to the tournament bracket/structure) is usually not present apart from specific team leagues. Thus, I am shocked to see people accepting 'match-fixing' if done by team-mates.

These posts beget the question that at what point does collusion become non-acceptable. Of course, when money starts changing hands, it seems obvious. But before that, is it fine that two good friends (but not team-mates) collude to get favorable bracket positioning. Can two strangers collude for and do something similar?

A specific example would be a group consisting of players A, B, C, D, and E. Let us assume that player A had won the group after playing 3 games and is playing player B who needs a win to come in second and qualify for the next round. If players A and B are team-mates, would people find it acceptable that player A throws the game so that his team-mate can qualify. For some people that I quoted, this seems perfectly acceptable and lies in the realm of team strategy. For some others, it seems to lie in the grey area but still alright since it is between team-mates.

Now let us say players A and B were from the same country (or good friends) and not team-mates. Would a similar event (A throwing the game) deemed acceptable? After all, both of them are looking after their best interests which is no different from that of two team-mates. Specifically since the notion of the team holds no significance for the bracket and it deems all players as equal in its view.

A final question that pops up in my mind after this is:
'Is SC2 a team centric game where decisions like throwing matches to team-mates, or deliberately losing matches so that your team-mate gets favorable advantage is considered a strategically sound plan (OR) Is SC2 an individual centric game where the notion of the team is non-existent in terms of the bracket and should be discarded once the event begins?'
Obviously it is not exactly black or white like stated above but to what extent does it lean towards either side.

*
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-25 17:43:14
September 25 2011 15:35 GMT
#2
It's unacceptable and unethical. I've always assumed tournaments make sure in pool play they have teammates play each other first so no late colluding can occur. In bracket play generally players won't have a good reason to lose on purpose for a teammate so it shouldn't be much of an issue. Tournament runners/sponsors would also have obvious problems with it seeing how entertaining their audience is of high priority to make money.
SnowFantasy
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
4173 Posts
September 25 2011 15:41 GMT
#3
I remember thinking at the time that Firebathero did this when Stork beat him to play in the MSL Finals against Bisu.

I'm sure it happens sometimes but it isn't something I would support.
deathly rat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United Kingdom911 Posts
September 25 2011 15:42 GMT
#4
Nobody thinks it is morally correct in any sport, the issue is that it is impossible to legislate effectively against.
No logo (logo)
ClysmiC
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2192 Posts
September 25 2011 15:51 GMT
#5
On September 26 2011 00:42 deathly rat wrote:
Nobody thinks it is morally correct in any sport, the issue is that it is impossible to legislate effectively against.

He hit the nail on the head. There's no real way to tell if someone is throwing a game or if they just get "outplayed."
deafhobbit
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States828 Posts
September 25 2011 22:53 GMT
#6
It's inevitable, and if you ban it you'll never be able to enforce the ban. Moreover, there's nothing wrong with it, so long as people are open about it.
I cheer for underdogs and Flash
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
08:00
Continental Nation League S1
CranKy Ducklings21
Liquipedia
BSL Open Qualifier
04:00
Pro & Gosu - Last Chance #2
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 3215
GuemChi 1863
Artosis 676
Shuttle 595
ProTech135
HiyA 34
Aegong 21
Terrorterran 16
Dota 2
monkeys_forever751
NeuroSwarm233
League of Legends
JimRising 705
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1163
taco 368
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox842
C9.Mang0712
Other Games
summit1g6986
WinterStarcraft333
PiGStarcraft264
Livibee219
Maynarde128
RuFF_SC246
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick773
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta43
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP9
• Nickrosys5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Scarra1173
• Lourlo391
• Rush198
Other Games
• Shiphtur265
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Weekly
8h 8m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 8h
PiGosaur Cup
1d 21h
The PondCast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
FEL
5 days
FEL
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 22
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
IPSL Winter 2026-27
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.