• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:19
CEST 21:19
KST 04:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-69SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-64PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)14Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE18
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft 2 at SC4ALL II Invite #4/8 - Percival Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Protoss AoE skill expression 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) StarCraft 2 at SC4ALL II Invite #3/8 - Clem
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25) SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-6 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance
Brood War
General
ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Recent recommended BW games Making an Online Broodwar Manager Game ASL22 General Discussion [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament - Season 3 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3 SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-6
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
The Clem Fan Club INnoVation Fan Club The Scarlett Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
NBA General Discussion Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
What is a Gamer?
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4262 users

Is StarCraft2's development on the right track?

Blogs > darkness
Post a Reply
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-15 23:09:40
September 15 2011 23:07 GMT
#1
I started to play SC:BW in the late 2nd half of 2006 which may not be long compared to TL veterans, but I have some cool memories. One of them is that everyone was encourged to improve himself/herself, and I rarely heard someone complaining about imbalance because everything was/is considered balance. And that is true even today because there's nothing that can't be countered if you play well enough.
However, I'm starting to question Blizzard's decisions and StarCraft2's development. After reading that Blizzard reverted NP change, it felt disgusting that massive whine I've seen on TL and bnet forums has won once again. Let me remind you of some things that were changed because of whining:
1. People complained about warp-in storm => KA removed, not even compensation or fixing it instead of completely removing it
2. People whined about Blue Flame Hellions => upgrade damage changed from 10 to 5
3. People whined when fungal growth was changed to projectile or something like that which could be dodged with good micro => reverted thanks to complaining
4. People complained when fungal growth couldn't hit air units => yes, ridiculous but still whining wins
5. Void ray's range was reduced by 1.
6. People have complained about many other things such as Colossus (nerfed in beta), reaper (nerfed to the point of being almost useless), etc

My point? Loud whining seems rewarding in SC2 and I don't like this policy. I really wish this game becomes like BW and people start to make this game balanced through strategies instead of asking Blizzard to change something.

***
wattabeast
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States957 Posts
September 15 2011 23:09 GMT
#2
You sound like a hypocrite to be honest. You are whining for people to change things about people whining to change things. Whineception?
:O
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
September 15 2011 23:11 GMT
#3
Damn, voidrays used to have 1 extra range? How would you ever stop that as terran lol
blubbdavid
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Switzerland2412 Posts
September 15 2011 23:11 GMT
#4
Can't believe that I am actually defending SC2, but:
BW was being patched for three years. For SC2, there are still two expansions to come.

What bothers me is that they nerf everything. It would be better if they made Spells OP, but also increased their costs and the risk to use them.
What do you desire? Money? Glory? Power? Revenge? Or something that surpasses all other? Whatever you desire - that is here. Tower of God ¦¦Nutella, drink of the Gods
Phyrigian
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
New Zealand1332 Posts
September 15 2011 23:16 GMT
#5
--- Nuked ---
willll
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States73 Posts
September 15 2011 23:17 GMT
#6
I think you are overstating this just a bit. Blizzard put NP change on the PTR, then ended up doing a different change (still reducing usability via range, but keeping massive units). The whole point of the PTR is to test changes, if they don't like the test results, maybe they go with a different change? You assume it is due to QQ, they don't say that.
For balance, they either suspect or know that NP is too powerful currently. So they test one change and go with a different one. No big deal IMO.
"A true man's pride should be his zealots." -Reach
SigmaoctanusIV
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States3313 Posts
September 15 2011 23:27 GMT
#7
I would agree with you, BUT Wait for all the expansions to come out and for the game to settle down after a year, Then you can whine if people are still claiming everything is imba. Starcraft is just a vast game that Blizzard has no idea how some things are going to turn out. Sure changes will be made for the masses. It's just something that is going to happen. Have patience fear and anger only lead to the darkside.
I am Godzilla You are Japan
petered
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1817 Posts
September 15 2011 23:34 GMT
#8
People whined about 4 pool being too strong in BW when the pool cost less money (150 min i think) and took less time to build. So Blizzard encouraged everyone to improve their play and didn't...wait no, they actually nerfed the 4pool.

Blizzard has been plenty patient in the face of community whine, I think they are balancing based on what they think is best for the game.
This, my friends, is the power of the Shikyo Memorial for QQ therapy thread. We make the world a better place, one chainsaw massacre prevention at a time.
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
September 15 2011 23:36 GMT
#9
I dont think the massive whine won out. Blizzard knew it was too bad a change, it was with all good reason a bad change.
ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
September 15 2011 23:36 GMT
#10
The main thing the op is saying is that bronze players complain that infesters op and blizzard listens when bronze players can just get better.
Jaedong :3
deafhobbit
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States828 Posts
September 15 2011 23:38 GMT
#11
On September 16 2011 08:16 Phyrigian wrote:
im pretty sure there were only 4 major balancing patches... the rest were like bugs or stuff, werent they?


Yep. 4 balance patches in the entire history of SC1, including the release of BW. SC2 has had way more, and there's no end in sight.
I cheer for underdogs and Flash
Sega92
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States467 Posts
September 15 2011 23:43 GMT
#12
yeah, the reason we didn't hear any whining in bw was just the fact that blizz said it was perfectly balanced and let it go,so we just learned how to play without that mindset, for now sc2 is just too new to be perfectly balanced and with new mechanics like mules and such it becomes harder to balance, I have faith in blizz balancing this game in the long run also blizz has made a LOT of smaller changes in sc2 rather than the huge changes in bw
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
September 15 2011 23:53 GMT
#13
What do you think, should Blizzard make balance changes without listening to anyone anymore?
Obviously, it might be both harmful and good, but it all depends on Blizzard's decision making and balance view.
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
September 15 2011 23:55 GMT
#14
On September 16 2011 08:11 blubbdavid wrote:
Can't believe that I am actually defending SC2, but:
BW was being patched for three years. For SC2, there are still two expansions to come.

What bothers me is that they nerf everything. It would be better if they made Spells OP, but also increased their costs and the risk to use them.

^Pretty much that.
kiss kiss fall in love
XXGeneration
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States625 Posts
September 15 2011 23:59 GMT
#15
On September 16 2011 08:55 IntoTheheart wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2011 08:11 blubbdavid wrote:
Can't believe that I am actually defending SC2, but:
BW was being patched for three years. For SC2, there are still two expansions to come.

What bothers me is that they nerf everything. It would be better if they made Spells OP, but also increased their costs and the risk to use them.

^Pretty much that.


"Patched for three years" is quite a bit misleading; if you look above people have stated that there have been only 4 major balance patches in the entirety of BW.
"I was so surprised when I first played StarCraft 2. I couldn't believe that such an easy game exists... I guess the best way to attract people these days is to make things easy and simple." -Midas
Mobius_1
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2763 Posts
September 16 2011 01:57 GMT
#16
There's a reason people whine. And while I usually dislike the way and tone with which people whine, there are some truths and half-truths to their complaints, and Blizzard is wise to listen to players and especially pros.
Starleague Forever. RIP KT Violet~
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-16 02:17:53
September 16 2011 02:11 GMT
#17
Bw balance patching was done after a year, no changes since then.

Either way, personally I think the whole clumping, smartcasting and insane macro mechanics are the problem(Mules, Chronoboost/warpgate and inject larvae, although chronoboost is fine) combined with the most boring ass (anti-micro) units and abilities, however they are not going anywhere, so we will have to live with it.

There is still 2 expansions to go however so don't lose hope. BW and the Frozen throne(for WCIII) for that matter changed the game in its entire.

Ow and as much as I hate to say it , BW is not completly balanced either, but it is pretty close.

With 3 races who all function differently, there will always be one race which is inherintly weaker to certain things or stronger in certain departments, the trick is to make the races (much)more powerfull in the hands of one player then in the hands of another.(which is why Terran in SC2 was described as a ''complete'' race by Blizzard themselves, you should know, the differences between a Terran and like......a korean Terran are pretty big.)
WriterXiao8~~
fuzzayy
Profile Joined February 2011
United States99 Posts
September 16 2011 02:16 GMT
#18
Everyone will always whine because no one can accept that they can't change the game
acrimoneyius
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States983 Posts
September 16 2011 06:17 GMT
#19
On September 16 2011 08:36 ReketSomething wrote:
The main thing the op is saying is that bronze players complain that infesters op and blizzard listens when bronze players can just get better.


Except you hear a number of pro players saying the same thing. Maybe do a little research before spreading misinformation.
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
September 16 2011 06:48 GMT
#20
Starcraft was terribly imbalanced at first and Broodwar changed quiet a bit. An additional year I think it took for the game to be very well balanced as it is today, give Starcraft 2 some time. All the changes made or reversed made at least some sense and I think Blizzard is doing a great job.

The game itself is that balanced that you can actually put money into it, have big tournaments... right now a lot of that imbalance whine comes from not enough standardisation of the game... which means there are so many viable strategies right now. The game is not devoloped enough yet to completely have solid (solid vs cheese, 1 base etc) builds and that will need some time.

The reason broodwar was so exciting and 'well balanced' at some point also was, that there were certain strategies and everyone played them. I can guarantee if Starcraft 2 is as far as Broodwar, there will be a few strategies that will be standard and the games will look different.

Its already going into that direction with the difference that there still are lots of things that can throw someone off due to not having enough experience .. etc

For example when 3 gate robo for Protoss was common, most Terrans didn't wall off because Immortals would probably kill your 2 supply depots and you will lose the game.. but now its common to expand and Terrans can wall off.

With the new patch and immortal +1 range I can see 3 gate robo returning and pressuring the wall since immortals have the same range as marauders now and with forcefields it can be really powerful to push the wallin even with 1 immortal / a few stalkers + a few sentries...

CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Big Brain Bouts
16:00
#125
Reynor vs CureLIVE!
RotterdaM1304
IndyStarCraft 236
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1304
IndyStarCraft 242
ProTech98
RushiSC 36
MindelVK 23
EmSc Tv 16
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyun 44
Sexy 22
scan(afreeca) 16
NaDa 15
Dota 2
420jenkins289
League of Legends
Doublelift680
Counter-Strike
apEX1624
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu340
Other Games
Grubby2098
FrodaN1023
Beastyqt674
Hui .133
C9.Mang0123
ArmadaUGS111
UpATreeSC89
Mew2King79
XaKoH 58
JuggernautJason53
White-Ra38
ROOTCatZ26
Organizations
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 16
EmSc2Tv 16
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• imaqtpie1665
• Jankos1423
• Shiphtur628
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
4h 41m
RSL Revival
13h 41m
herO vs SHIN
Clem vs Solar
Serral vs Rogue
Ladder Legends
22h 41m
Ladder Legends
1d
RSL Revival
1d 13h
OSC
1d 17h
OSC
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
The Patches Monday
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
PiG Sty Festival
3 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-05
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
Escore Tournament S3: W6
Proleague 2026-08-07
RSL Revival: Season 6
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.