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I started to play SC:BW in the late 2nd half of 2006 which may not be long compared to TL veterans, but I have some cool memories. One of them is that everyone was encourged to improve himself/herself, and I rarely heard someone complaining about imbalance because everything was/is considered balance. And that is true even today because there's nothing that can't be countered if you play well enough.
However, I'm starting to question Blizzard's decisions and StarCraft2's development. After reading that Blizzard reverted NP change, it felt disgusting that massive whine I've seen on TL and bnet forums has won once again. Let me remind you of some things that were changed because of whining:
1. People complained about warp-in storm => KA removed, not even compensation or fixing it instead of completely removing it
2. People whined about Blue Flame Hellions => upgrade damage changed from 10 to 5
3. People whined when fungal growth was changed to projectile or something like that which could be dodged with good micro => reverted thanks to complaining
4. People complained when fungal growth couldn't hit air units => yes, ridiculous but still whining wins
5. Void ray's range was reduced by 1.
6. People have complained about many other things such as Colossus (nerfed in beta), reaper (nerfed to the point of being almost useless), etc
My point? Loud whining seems rewarding in SC2 and I don't like this policy. I really wish this game becomes like BW and people start to make this game balanced through strategies instead of asking Blizzard to change something.
 
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United States957 Posts
You sound like a hypocrite to be honest. You are whining for people to change things about people whining to change things. Whineception?
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Damn, voidrays used to have 1 extra range? How would you ever stop that as terran lol
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Can't believe that I am actually defending SC2, but:
BW was being patched for three years. For SC2, there are still two expansions to come.
What bothers me is that they nerf everything. It would be better if they made Spells OP, but also increased their costs and the risk to use them.
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I think you are overstating this just a bit. Blizzard put NP change on the PTR, then ended up doing a different change (still reducing usability via range, but keeping massive units). The whole point of the PTR is to test changes, if they don't like the test results, maybe they go with a different change? You assume it is due to QQ, they don't say that.
For balance, they either suspect or know that NP is too powerful currently. So they test one change and go with a different one. No big deal IMO.
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I would agree with you, BUT Wait for all the expansions to come out and for the game to settle down after a year, Then you can whine if people are still claiming everything is imba. Starcraft is just a vast game that Blizzard has no idea how some things are going to turn out. Sure changes will be made for the masses. It's just something that is going to happen. Have patience fear and anger only lead to the darkside.
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People whined about 4 pool being too strong in BW when the pool cost less money (150 min i think) and took less time to build. So Blizzard encouraged everyone to improve their play and didn't...wait no, they actually nerfed the 4pool.
Blizzard has been plenty patient in the face of community whine, I think they are balancing based on what they think is best for the game.
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I dont think the massive whine won out. Blizzard knew it was too bad a change, it was with all good reason a bad change.
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The main thing the op is saying is that bronze players complain that infesters op and blizzard listens when bronze players can just get better.
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On September 16 2011 08:16 Phyrigian wrote:
im pretty sure there were only 4 major balancing patches... the rest were like bugs or stuff, werent they?
Yep. 4 balance patches in the entire history of SC1, including the release of BW. SC2 has had way more, and there's no end in sight.
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yeah, the reason we didn't hear any whining in bw was just the fact that blizz said it was perfectly balanced and let it go,so we just learned how to play without that mindset, for now sc2 is just too new to be perfectly balanced and with new mechanics like mules and such it becomes harder to balance, I have faith in blizz balancing this game in the long run also blizz has made a LOT of smaller changes in sc2 rather than the huge changes in bw
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What do you think, should Blizzard make balance changes without listening to anyone anymore?
Obviously, it might be both harmful and good, but it all depends on Blizzard's decision making and balance view.
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On September 16 2011 08:11 blubbdavid wrote:
Can't believe that I am actually defending SC2, but:
BW was being patched for three years. For SC2, there are still two expansions to come.
What bothers me is that they nerf everything. It would be better if they made Spells OP, but also increased their costs and the risk to use them.
^Pretty much that.
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On September 16 2011 08:55 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 08:11 blubbdavid wrote:
Can't believe that I am actually defending SC2, but:
BW was being patched for three years. For SC2, there are still two expansions to come.
What bothers me is that they nerf everything. It would be better if they made Spells OP, but also increased their costs and the risk to use them. ^Pretty much that.
"Patched for three years" is quite a bit misleading; if you look above people have stated that there have been only 4 major balance patches in the entirety of BW.
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There's a reason people whine. And while I usually dislike the way and tone with which people whine, there are some truths and half-truths to their complaints, and Blizzard is wise to listen to players and especially pros.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Bw balance patching was done after a year, no changes since then.
Either way, personally I think the whole clumping, smartcasting and insane macro mechanics are the problem(Mules, Chronoboost/warpgate and inject larvae, although chronoboost is fine) combined with the most boring ass (anti-micro) units and abilities, however they are not going anywhere, so we will have to live with it.
There is still 2 expansions to go however so don't lose hope. BW and the Frozen throne(for WCIII) for that matter changed the game in its entire.
Ow and as much as I hate to say it , BW is not completly balanced either, but it is pretty close.
With 3 races who all function differently, there will always be one race which is inherintly weaker to certain things or stronger in certain departments, the trick is to make the races (much)more powerfull in the hands of one player then in the hands of another.(which is why Terran in SC2 was described as a ''complete'' race by Blizzard themselves, you should know, the differences between a Terran and like......a korean Terran are pretty big.)
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Everyone will always whine because no one can accept that they can't change the game
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On September 16 2011 08:36 ReketSomething wrote:
The main thing the op is saying is that bronze players complain that infesters op and blizzard listens when bronze players can just get better.
Except you hear a number of pro players saying the same thing. Maybe do a little research before spreading misinformation.
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Starcraft was terribly imbalanced at first and Broodwar changed quiet a bit. An additional year I think it took for the game to be very well balanced as it is today, give Starcraft 2 some time. All the changes made or reversed made at least some sense and I think Blizzard is doing a great job.
The game itself is that balanced that you can actually put money into it, have big tournaments... right now a lot of that imbalance whine comes from not enough standardisation of the game... which means there are so many viable strategies right now. The game is not devoloped enough yet to completely have solid (solid vs cheese, 1 base etc) builds and that will need some time.
The reason broodwar was so exciting and 'well balanced' at some point also was, that there were certain strategies and everyone played them. I can guarantee if Starcraft 2 is as far as Broodwar, there will be a few strategies that will be standard and the games will look different.
Its already going into that direction with the difference that there still are lots of things that can throw someone off due to not having enough experience .. etc
For example when 3 gate robo for Protoss was common, most Terrans didn't wall off because Immortals would probably kill your 2 supply depots and you will lose the game.. but now its common to expand and Terrans can wall off.
With the new patch and immortal +1 range I can see 3 gate robo returning and pressuring the wall since immortals have the same range as marauders now and with forcefields it can be really powerful to push the wallin even with 1 immortal / a few stalkers + a few sentries...
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EPT
