• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:32
CEST 13:32
KST 20:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall12HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed12Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll4Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed Who will win EWC 2025? The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Starcraft in widescreen A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches CSL Xiamen International Invitational [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 765 users

Explain Modern Art - an idea for a thread

Blogs > StatorFlux
Post a Reply
forSeohyun
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
504 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 18:21:56
September 09 2011 18:19 GMT
#1
Read this motivating thread first (NSFW): "**** modern art" [possible offensive word blotted out by me]

My idea:
Make a thread where people try to explain modern or contemporary art to each
other.
Is it explainable? Can one like modern art more (or indeed get to like it at all) if it is explained to oneself? What motives other than beauty is behind contemporary art?


My motivation:

Hello, I like to have ideals, maybe that is not rational since an ideal is always (or isn't it?) unattainable.

One of my ideals is to be a renaissance man or polymath, a man that can excel at any aspect of intellectual exercises: math, physics, litterature, art, history. You name it. Men such as Goethe, Leonardo da Vinci or Leibniz (Benjamin Franklin is probably the most well known American homo universalis).
Personally I'd also like to be a physically fit and strong but that is another thing.


Needless to say I am far away from that goal but the pursuit I feel must be done.
So what am I worst at?

Appreciating modern or contemporary art.
I can't see beauty or meaning in most of anything considered art since and beginning with Picasso. I don't get Abstract expressionism (Pollock) nor Dadism (Duchamps) and certainly not why something by a minimalist (Hirst) can be worth 4-5 Rembrandt paintings.

The thread:

- Anything after or contemporary with Picasso is the sought after prey (can go earlier in some cases, that is the cases when "normal" people find the art unintelligible).

- A painting or a sculpture represented by a jpg-photo (maybe a film if it's applicable, such as live art) and preferrably meta data such as price, date, artist, claim to fame and other interesting
things.

- The replies to such a post should be either why it is bad or why it is good, bash them if you like but provide a reasoning.



Is it a good idea? Do you 'get' modern art? Would it be fun or interesting?

Seohyun fan
Truedot
Profile Joined August 2011
444 Posts
September 09 2011 18:38 GMT
#2
if you're open and receptive, you can "get" modern art without even having to understand any of the underlying structure of it, how and why it was created as it was, etc etc.

I used to spend my time not caring about people's language in chat. Until I got hit by blizz. Now I spend my time instigating people to verbal abusive levels, so I can ban them in turn. The circle of life.
forSeohyun
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
504 Posts
September 09 2011 18:47 GMT
#3
On September 10 2011 03:38 Truedot wrote:
if you're open and receptive, you can "get" modern art without even having to understand any of the underlying structure of it, how and why it was created as it was, etc etc.




I have to ask you, assuming that you "get" modern art, did you appreciate it from the "beginning"? Or was there a learning curve from classical art?

The whole reason I ask is if I have any chance to start appreciating it:

1. Is it worth it, will I gain pleasure from it?
2. Can other people open my eyes to that which I currently does not appreciate?
3. Am I inhibited by pre-conceived notions?

That is some deep questions which I personally can't answer.
I like opera but I sure didn't like it from the start.
Seohyun fan
cz
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States3249 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 19:54:01
September 09 2011 19:49 GMT
#4
edit: I'm talking about things like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_of_Fire

Dissenting opinion: modern art is mostly worthless and how highly it is rated (e.g. "an excellent piece of art... versus ... terrible piece of art" is based almost entirely on the reputation and or character/attitude of it's creator.

I feel that if a random person were to scribble on a piece of paper, or make a circle in crayon on a piece of paper, then hand that to a world-renowned modern artist and have THAT person enter it in a high-level art competition, it would be highly rated, but if it were sold under the original unknown persons name it would be considered worthless.

I'm talking about modern art that is very basic, like a brown line on a white page, not sculpture or anything btw.

tl;dr I think modern art is a circlejerk based around people reaffirming how deep and artistic/cultured they are, when in fact the actual artwork takes little to no skill but rather requires a respected name and reputation.
DEN1ED
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1087 Posts
September 09 2011 21:01 GMT
#5
On September 10 2011 04:49 cz wrote:
tl;dr I think modern art is a circlejerk based around people reaffirming how deep and artistic/cultured they are, when in fact the actual artwork takes little to no skill but rather requires a respected name and reputation.


Well how do you get a respected name? There must be something to it, although I don't understand it.
Redmark
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2129 Posts
September 09 2011 21:48 GMT
#6
On September 10 2011 06:01 DEN1ED wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2011 04:49 cz wrote:
tl;dr I think modern art is a circlejerk based around people reaffirming how deep and artistic/cultured they are, when in fact the actual artwork takes little to no skill but rather requires a respected name and reputation.


Well how do you get a respected name? There must be something to it, although I don't understand it.

I think the point of the thread is for people who 'get' it to explain to the rest of us what it is they get. Obviously they're doing something different, the argument is whether it's art. At some point the communication breaks down.
forSeohyun
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
504 Posts
September 09 2011 21:50 GMT
#7
On September 10 2011 06:01 DEN1ED wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2011 04:49 cz wrote:
tl;dr I think modern art is a circlejerk based around people reaffirming how deep and artistic/cultured they are, when in fact the actual artwork takes little to no skill but rather requires a respected name and reputation.


Well how do you get a respected name? There must be something to it, although I don't understand it.


I saw some documentary on national swedish television called The Great Art Bubble in Swedish or Brave New Art world in english about Hirst and his multi-million pound artworks. The creator of the program Ben Lewis has some articles here which may interest you:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23555605-why-i-was-banned-from-damien-hirsts-120m-gamble.do


There is that side to it, the market has inflated the prices on contemporary art.

But there is also a problem, as I see it in any art, things has to be "new" in the art world to seem as revolutionizing or great art. If you paint a can of soup it is not valued as highly as when Warhol did it.

1. Modern Art is about being first with something and/or shock people.
2. That something can be so trivial in it's execution that anyone can do it
3. It doesn't even have to be the artist who does something, Warhol even called it "the factory"
4. "Normal" people can't appreciate it, they see no beauty in it.

With these 4 observations it seems to be impossible to say what is good art and what is not when popular appeal, a clear maker or the thing itself seems unimportant. It is like everything revolves around a "meta-art" which is anything but the thing itself - only the artists intention or even lack of intention matters.

For me, as I appreciate art right now.
1. Great art is timeless.
2. Great art requires a genius in composition and making.
3. Great art is the result of both the genius by hand and mind together, everything else is a copy.
4. It should be possible to almost instantly feel that art is beautiful.

Maybe some of these criteria are primitive but maybe they can be changed. Maybe not all..

Seohyun fan
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 28m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Trikslyr33
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 28343
BeSt 4619
Mini 1684
Pusan 995
Stork 647
EffOrt 372
Zeus 360
PianO 294
Last 194
ToSsGirL 117
[ Show more ]
Barracks 111
zelot 65
JulyZerg 54
Aegong 39
Sharp 29
Sacsri 25
Icarus 18
GoRush 16
Rush 15
IntoTheRainbow 14
Noble 14
sSak 13
SilentControl 13
scan(afreeca) 10
Bale 9
Hm[arnc] 8
Britney 0
Dota 2
Gorgc7267
singsing2247
XcaliburYe325
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss869
x6flipin526
sgares238
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King151
Other Games
gofns10738
DeMusliM330
Pyrionflax123
SortOf109
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick3392
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 9
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH418
• Hinosc 21
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4h 28m
Replay Cast
12h 28m
The PondCast
22h 28m
OSC
1d 1h
WardiTV European League
1d 4h
Replay Cast
1d 12h
Epic.LAN
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
Epic.LAN
3 days
CSO Contender
3 days
[ Show More ]
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Online Event
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Esports World Cup
5 days
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Esports World Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Championship of Russia 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.