This blog should serve multiple purposes but all working towards a common theme. It will chart my time here on TeamLiquid; from regular user, to staff member, to 'quitting' TL back to today. This isn't meant to be an autobiography, rather an indicator to all that you aren't that different from the staff on this website. Why do this? Because an alarming number of you seem to be living in fear of the mod staff. While TeamLiquid has a reputation for harsh moderation, as long as you don't behave like an idiot and abide by our no-memes customs - then you will have no problem staying around. In particular, it is okay to openly challenge a staff member on the forums and it is okay to criticise TL's moderation (provided these are done in an appropriate way).
Pre-staff
We probably started out posting very similar. I came to TeamLiquid because I was (and still am) the worlds largest PuSan fan. Who is PuSan? He played Protoss in SC:BW and was originally on Plus (now Hwaseung Oz). In 2005 he transferred to POS (now MBCGame Heroes) and has stayed there since. He was known for his macro - his nickname, 'spirit toss', was given to him because as an amateur he would concentrate more on macro rather than controlling his units - leading to many many dead zealots (hence spirit - because it looks like a spirit when they die).
PuSan made his OSL debut in So1 OSL. While I had known about TL for the past year, I didn't really visit too often as there was little of interest to me (at the time), but with Pusan playing - how could I miss it? Unfortunately, I was stuck on a 56k modem (yes, in 2005, welcome to New Zealand) and could only read the LR thread. In the semifinals between Pusan and Boxer I made my first post:
On October 21 2005 05:26 Plexa wrote: cmon PuSan, do it for all the protoss out there! we have faith!!~~
Yup... It gets worse.
On October 21 2005 05:32 Plexa wrote: lol theres another kiwi floating around here somewhere.... who won the league??
die boxman
That was post #3. Ugh. Anyway, here is the LR thread for the lulz (featuring tons of staff that weren't staff then, classic rekrul posting and quality LRing).
Having moderated the SC2LR threads on occasion I know that many of you have made posts like that as one of your earlier posts. Most people come to TeamLiquid because they love esports, not because they want to get good at SC2 (well, those people are in the minority anyway). The same goes for pretty much all of the staff here - they're all passionate fans of the game. While I don't know how many have started their careers in LR threads in such shameful manner, all of them have demonstrated their fanboyism in one way or another over the years.
Pusan subsequently lost to Oov, 3-2, in the 3rd/4th playoff (and I'm still bitter about the map order, if Forte was played twice like it should have been then Pusan would have won ) but managed to requalify for Shinhan 2005 OSL so I stuck around on TL for a while, and got addicted in the process.
For those of you who have been around for a year or so, there comes a time when you feel like you want to contribute to this community in any way you can. I don't really know why this is but I have one theory. TL is a website which celebrates and respects it's contributors. If you are a solid contributor you become known on TL and everyone respects you. I think thats something everyone strives for at some point. But hey, I could be way off.
Pre-staff I felt this urge too. Like many of you, I have no amazing talents. I can't draw like Silversky or pachi. I can't code like R1CH or Bob. I had no way of helping with VOD distribution. My first and only language is English and back then I wasn't even a particularly good writer. Yet I still had that desire to contribute. I did, however, have access to international students and some of those were Korean. I managed to register an account on mapdori.cc (where they design/create proleague maps along with intothemap.com) using their KSSN and eventually made it public which lead to the mapdori mappack. It was only something little, and I only contributed a tiny bit towards it, but I had helped make TL a better place.
It was probably that which made Mani choose me and Brood to help guide TL's progamer picks during blizzard's sandlot tournament. The details are here (Plto = jinro btw!) but this was the one time when TL got trashed terribly. Basically we got fucked over by players and had a bad picking strategy. Oh well.
In 2007 I discovered ultrasurf which allowed me to tunnel through my schools filter (websense ftl) and watch the OGN stream. The 6-8 months that that worked were amazing and I essentially had the stream on all the time. For the first time ever I was able to watch live Starcraft (remember, 56k before this) and as such I LR'd many threads. That boosted my post count well into the high thousands. Again, with my severe lack of talent I had found a way to give something back - even if it was as small as LR'ing a thread. Oh, and I also retroactively created the Uzoo MSL R&S thread.
I make it sound like I was a model poster in the years pre-staff. Well, I wasn't terrible but I wasn't amazing. My lowest moment was this: + Show Spoiler [long post] +
goodlove (our resident gosu korean) scarcely plays anymore, rookie is terrible pvz and pvp, sky is inactive, im inactive even, gag[sharky] is inactive, eunji is around i guess.. last i heard he was on seige; but he was flawed- in his conduct at the very least
I'm interested in starting a New Zealand team, not a gosu-Koreans-who-happen-to-live-here team. The skill level of Kiwi players doesn't concern me. Their interest, activity and commitment does. You give me a list of apparently decent players who don't play any more, but I have a list of active, enthusiastic players who'd love to give this their best shot.
So because a korean lives in NZ, with NZ citizenship it makes them not-applicable for the team? Goodlove, rookie, beautifulgame are 3 koreans with decentish skill and im sure there are more... the latter two being semi-active at times In observing the last team, there were real commitment issues. eRaS did not particpate Goodlove did not participate eun_ji did not participate Lang was unrealiable, he showed up and was a force but never showed for games GAG is a one trick pony Rookie was a one trick pony Sky was a one trick pony (didnt see his tvt though) R_I's forte was tvp, but tvz/tvt were decent fortissimo moved to italy beaut has commitment issues because he plays at work (internet cafe) Nexies was almost impossible to track down 80% of the people in NZL-1 are ums 5% BGH 10% FPM 5% Low-moeny
all our traditional sources of strength have gone, trust me.. we dont have the strength/numbers to have a national team
We'll see.
Your also asking at a particularly bad time; semester 1 is drawing to a close rapidly and hence mass exams are on, also many highschools have midyears etc didcated players around this time are scarce at best
I suggest if you are really serious about this that you assemble 5 reliable players (lol goodluck) and get some games going; in ASEAN we won 1 set (thanks RI!!), dont over estimate our skills, we are very much a weak nation. Goodluck regardless
To which Manifesto7 said:
On May 15 2007 03:01 Manifesto7 wrote: Hey Plexa way to be a total cock to a guy wanting to try again. Perhaps the reason NZ has a tough time is that attitude?
In general, the staff are a bunch of level headed cool guys who aren't out to fuck over anyone. In addition to the incident above, there have been many times where I've debated with staff as a regular user and come off with no repercussions. The only thing to remember about posting anywhere on TL is to not act like an idiot, and admit when you are wrong!
Joining TL Staff
We constantly get asked "what do I need to do to become staff?!". Funnily enough, prior to SC2 the answer was "if you're asking, then it isn't going to happen". What is it that separates TL's top contributors from staff members? It certainly isn't insanity or wild uncontrollable patriotism for TL. It is actually really hard to say exactly what is the differential. I'll hazard somewhat of a description to the best of my ability.
Every staff member has had extremely humble beginnings. When I first joined TL I remember reading PoP's LR in the tourneys forum. 4000 or so posts later and PoP had joined the staff as a writer. That was short lived, as he quickly found his place as one of TLs coders. Carnac too was involved in LR as well as creating nice OPs. He was brought on to write and eventually mod and stream stuff. Hot_bid made it on staff for his wit and charm, but was kept on for his incredible ability to drive the staff harder and actually make us do work (hi TSL).
So the common theme is that everyone contributed to TL in whatever way they could. But that alone isn't sufficient for staff. There is something else... that X factor. As this is a forum, this is mostly determined by post count, post frequency and reply speed. When we are deciding whether to bring someone on as a staff member (I guess, promotion to red name now) someone nominates the person and provides a few reasons why they deserve it, a bit of discussion happens and then people vote on it. This has proven to be a very effective method of maintaining a high quality staff.
So how did I get on staff? Well obviously I wasn't aware of all of this. In Jan08 I realised that there were a lot of new followers post-SC2 announcement and that a lot of them didn't know their BW history. Finally I was able to contribute something unique to this website - I had been around long enough to have seen quite a bit of BW in my time and enlighten the many newcomers and remind the old vets of the brilliant games of old. I ended up writing a blog a day for a month - each blog getting no more than 10-20 comments.
I started out simple; provide a bit of context to the match and why the match was significant and post a link to the vod. It started out with Savior vs Nada in Uzoo MSL which was one of the first progames I watched. I did a week long tribute to kingdom because he had surgery and he is a baller. Around half way through the month the 'context' behind the vod started to get longer and longer. My blogs turned into articles; I worked out the origins of the bisu build, documented the holy wars, looked at the rise of the neo emperor, retold july's royal road run and analysed the strategic developments in PvT on 815.
Eventually Fakesteve saw my blogs and after a while he was like "yo you should write a TLFE" and that is exactly what I did. But before that, Manifesto7 invited me to join the staff (along with pachi and Daigomi <3). And the rest, they say, is history.
If you want to go far in this community, just do what you can and be respectful. Don't contribute because you want to grow your e-peen - do it because it makes the community a better place. Particularly you BW guys, in BW's darkest hour it is up to it's fans to keep the fires burning. Not everyone can be as amazing as our forum stars, but you all can do something if you want to. The easiest way is to contribute to Liquipedia. While it doesn't look like people are taking notice of your edits, the LP staff are. There are other ways as well. Writing quality blogs is a great way to contribute something if you're nervous about making a new thread - the way blogs is coded means that its a good place to start building a reputation for yourself. And people do read them, I pretty much read every blog on the sidebar haha.
Quitting TL & Today
I'll keep this brief since I don't really want to dwell on it. You may recall my last post, which obviously didn't turn out to be my last. But it did for a long time (damn TSL brought me back, I'll blog about that at some point as well). So why did I leave? In short, my health. Things spiralled in and out of control this year culminating in emergency surgery. I'd rather not go into details at this stage, but you can probably work it out if you try hard enough. Leaving TL was an attempt to try bring my life back into order, turns out that TL is more a part of my life than I had anticipated. While I'm still incapable of contributing anything more to the community for the time being, it's an absolute pleasure watching over all the staff sub-forums and seeing all the great things they are doing.
I hope to one day write another TLFE, hopefully I get to do that with heyoka because we've been meaning to sit down and do that for a while now. Until the day I can do things again, I'll just be doing easy jobs like moderating and helping plan things here and there.
With an influx of many new users on TL it may seem like an impossible task to become a notable member of the community. This is far from the truth. People like Drazerk and Moonbear have made an influence on the community through LR'ing. Dakota obviously has made his mark via sc2gears. The blue posters in the strategy forum are doing what they can to make it a better place. I mean these things may seem so insignificant, but really TL depends on people being good model posters for its success. We've always said that TL's biggest strength is its community, and I don't see that changing any time in the near future.
Aside from the getting on staff bit, I'm sure me and you are not so different. We're both fans of the game and we both love TL (I assume!). Everyone can bring something special and unique to the table here at TL. Everyone has their own unique viewpoint on esports - from their differences in favorite players, to differences in opinion on why certain things happen (e.g. development of the 1/1/1 build). It's these differences that we can all too often take for granted. In hindsight, my blogs and TLFEs expressed my own unique viewpoint on the state of SC:BW and really anyone can do the same. It doesn't even have to be limited to BW, as this blog illustrates. But for those of you content to sit back and enjoy the benefits that TL has to offer just remember this simple rule - which I must have said like 5 times now - don't post idiotically and you won't face the hammer.
Awesome post Plexa. I don't think most people have anything to fear and like 80% of the time the poster knows he will probably get banned for his post. So I don't think the mods should feel like everyone fears them.
Meh, that might be true for an elite circle of mods and quality posters, but certainly not for me and the majority of users.
Generalizing like that is pointless, TL just has a relatively large user base, so it shouldn't be that big of a deal to come across a tl user on the internet while not engaging in that particular "world".
The password for life is: living
Everyone in the elite circle of mods and quality posters was once part of the majority of regular users. Point is that contributing to the community is rewarding, online as well as in real life.
And also that's not even true, look at how the TLHF thread has helped many many regular users improving their fitness and health. I am sure there are more examples like this.
Don't tell me I accidentally inspired this blog ._.
On September 07 2011 01:47 Carnac wrote: Just rereading your 2007 one. DMZ, seriously that map
There was one good game on it, and I think it was like the 2nd to last game ever played on it (it actually went to the midgame lol). I'm pretty sure i bloged it...
Yes I did!
To celebrate the brilliance of YellOw here is another game, this time showcasing his godly 2v2 skills. This is Yellow/Sync vs Hwasin/Calm @ DMZ. Now if you haven't seen this game, you are missing out on one of the best 2v2 games of 2007.
On September 07 2011 01:21 vGl-CoW wrote: DONT LISTEN TO THIS GUY OR I SWEAR TO GOD I WILL BAN YOU AND HURT YOUR CHILDREN/LOVED ONES
All hail and revere the cult of RED!!!
Honestly, though, this was a pretty nice blog to read. :p
I don't really think my knowledge of SC2 is extensive enough to write articles, or contribute too much to liquipedia (Besides maybe updating tourneys/teams). So instead, I just make joke blogs and screw around in photoshop. (Was going to list some stuff I made, but then it looked like a brag )
=/ I don't know, I believe I have a pretty decent posting history + translation contributions but I still got a 2-day from Mani for really iffy reasons and a warning from Ghostclaw for posting an image meme when it was TOTALLY appropriate for the personal blog (it was in blogs, for god sakes!). I really appreciate the hard work you guys put in, but sometimes I feel that some bans are made in a whim. This coming from a "3k+ poster," so imagine how the new joiners feel... well, at least, this blog should help people feel like we belong here.
On September 07 2011 01:59 Plexa wrote: I didn't have uploading privileges back then
PMs between Plexa & me back then:
Hey,I remember your 2005 'year in review' thing you wrote and was wondering if you are doing a 2007 one?If not, i'd like to try my hand at it if theres nothing in the works
[...] If I can be of any assistance, let me know. Oh and if you want to include any pictures/replays/etc please send them to me, so that I can upload them on the TL.net webspace for you. That's much better than uploading them to some free pic upload service, where they might disappear after a while, even if it's only after 2 years or later.
This is the reason that I check TL.net so many times each day. There is so many talented and caring people in this community, trying to contribute positively in any way they can, that you can feel the passion on their words. And although I'm just one more forum user, that inspires me to make better posts and that each word that I write have a meaning.
Thanks Plexa. And I'm happy that your last post wasn't your last post. ^^
ps.:That first TLFE was actually great! edit- typo
Very insightful blog, however I still fear the mods. Mods have been my enemies on most previous boards (often though cause they cannot take a proper challenge!)
But maybe one day I'll find something to contribute properly to the site. Those tags are pretty baller. ^^
Great read, Plexa's story has always been interesting.
TL is great because of the people who come here and want to be a part of what we do, I love seeing when it inspires other people to in turn do cool things as well
That was a great read, thanks but I'm still going to fear the staff though. Made it this far without a warning through being terrified of every post I write and deleting them more than I post them, so it seems helpful.
On September 07 2011 02:10 OpticalShot wrote: =/ I don't know, I believe I have a pretty decent posting history + translation contributions but I still got a 2-day from Mani for really iffy reasons and a warning from Ghostclaw for posting an image meme when it was TOTALLY appropriate for the personal blog (it was in blogs, for god sakes!). I really appreciate the hard work you guys put in, but sometimes I feel that some bans are made in a whim. This coming from a "3k+ poster," so imagine how the new joiners feel... well, at least, this blog should help people feel like we belong here.
I'll admit that your ban probably wasn't justified, basically mani got trolled and banned people when he probably shouldn't have. Mistakes happen, we try to keep those to a minimum though. The warning though, you know we hate memes around here
Hey,I remember your 2005 'year in review' thing you wrote and was wondering if you are doing a 2007 one?If not, i'd like to try my hand at it if theres nothing in the works
[...] If I can be of any assistance, let me know. Oh and if you want to include any pictures/replays/etc please send them to me, so that I can upload them on the TL.net webspace for you. That's much better than uploading them to some free pic upload service, where they might disappear after a while, even if it's only after 2 years or later.
What do you have to say for yourself now, sir? :p
lol I remember that PM conversation too ...
On September 07 2011 02:33 Iyerbeth wrote: That was a great read, thanks but I'm still going to fear the staff though. Made it this far without a warning through being terrified of every post I write and deleting them more than I post them, so it seems helpful.
You're totally on the right track. You have a well above average post history and you contribute to liquipedia
Funnily enough, thanks to EVE I've met quite a few of the staff and that's how I know they're all really a bunch of bears (especially kwark) (nyovne's more of a bumblebee)
On September 07 2011 03:08 Phil Phoenix wrote: Both relieving and inspiring. One thing's for sure, great content always gets recognized on TL.
definitely Great content gets recognized anywhere and everywhere, but I think we're particularly keen on it @ TL (and it's really the only way we found ourselves in staff)
My posting started off pretty terribly, but id like to think i was slowly improving, and then i wake up the other day after a night of drinking and see a bunch of jibberish i posted and got temp banned for Need to attach a breathalyzer to my computer so I don't get perma banned.
On September 07 2011 03:07 Firebolt145 wrote: Funnily enough, thanks to EVE I've met quite a few of the staff and that's how I know they're all really a bunch of bears (especially kwark) (nyovne's more of a bumblebee)
"don't post idiotically and you won't face the hammer."
It's not even about posting idiotically, you'll face the ban hammer anyway. I love SC2. I love TeamLiquid. I love gaming.
But if your opinion is different than any mod that's maybe not having a good day. You're going to get banned 9 times out of 10. There's almost no reason to post here. I think reddit is pretty awesome though.
Thanks for sharing. I've always wondered how the staff was made. Am now currently re-reading some of your old blogs and articles. You make such excellent reading material!
On September 07 2011 02:44 skipgamer wrote: Great post! I think I'll contribute something now!
For a moment I thought it was April 1 again. Then I remembered that community contributions make the best forums what they are. Even people who can't completely contribute to the community enough to be staff or have forum stars can make a difference.
Haha yes, DIE BOXMAN. Guess he wasn't as well respected as a legend back then huh? I noticed lots o other people thrash talking Boxer a bit.
Also, whenever I hear DMZ I think of the DMZ border between North and South Korea >,> too many documentaries i've watched
I heard something like Flamewheel was once a ling at 4k posts, which is cute I think, haha. To know that these now well respected mods (and writers in Flamewheel's case) used to just be little TL addicts is so interesting
On September 07 2011 03:27 reg0ner wrote: "don't post idiotically and you won't face the hammer."
It's not even about posting idiotically, you'll face the ban hammer anyway. I love SC2. I love TeamLiquid. I love gaming.
But if your opinion is different than any mod that's maybe not having a good day. You're going to get banned 9 times out of 10. There's almost no reason to post here. I think reddit is pretty awesome though.
On September 07 2011 03:27 reg0ner wrote: "don't post idiotically and you won't face the hammer."
It's not even about posting idiotically, you'll face the ban hammer anyway. I love SC2. I love TeamLiquid. I love gaming.
But if your opinion is different than any mod that's maybe not having a good day. You're going to get banned 9 times out of 10. There's almost no reason to post here. I think reddit is pretty awesome though.
Back to #foreverlurking Have a great day!
So not true LOL. I'm assuming you have a personal stake in this
On September 07 2011 02:44 skipgamer wrote: Great post! I think I'll contribute something now!
For a moment I thought it was April 1 again. Then I remembered that community contributions make the best forums what they are. Even people who can't completely contribute to the community enough to be staff or have forum stars can make a difference.
Completely agreed, why just a few days ago I was thinking on how I could possibly contribute to something in the BW section for OSL finals or perhaps even MSL, since it seems likey that whatever they have planned for this October could very well be their last. (as the MSL ofcourse, have faith!)
Great writeup. The mods are all pretty cool dudes. Met a couple of them at some MLGs and they are very friendly.
I'm about a year into being on TL and I'm feeling exactly what you described about wanting to contribute something; anything at all. I'll just keep improving my posting and just try to get more involved with the community!
On September 07 2011 03:27 reg0ner wrote: "don't post idiotically and you won't face the hammer."
It's not even about posting idiotically, you'll face the ban hammer anyway. I love SC2. I love TeamLiquid. I love gaming.
But if your opinion is different than any mod that's maybe not having a good day. You're going to get banned 9 times out of 10. There's almost no reason to post here. I think reddit is pretty awesome though.
Back to #foreverlurking Have a great day!
Typical redditer thinking.
Which is plain wrong, too.
If I've never had a warning or ban for something that could be considered inflammatory, then simply make a post that a mod could have a different opinion on is not enough. Ironically, the only moderation action I've had comes from posting a shitty 1 liner that doesn't contribute anything.
i'm really loving these nice long posts by you plexa, they really provide such a great insight into your experiences and some TL history and that i just can not get enough of.
On September 07 2011 03:27 reg0ner wrote: "don't post idiotically and you won't face the hammer."
It's not even about posting idiotically, you'll face the ban hammer anyway. I love SC2. I love TeamLiquid. I love gaming.
But if your opinion is different than any mod that's maybe not having a good day. You're going to get banned 9 times out of 10. There's almost no reason to post here. I think reddit is pretty awesome though.
Back to #foreverlurking Have a great day!
Typical redditer thinking.
Let's just downvote it. His comment has no place in the happy blog.
And that's what this is. A happy blog ^_^ Everyone that takes the time to read it will feel at least a little better.
Great post, Plexa. I'm definitely one of the ones that kinda fear the staff, so it does put my mind at ease, especially since I generally strive not to post crap.
I started to trying to contribute at first by doing some Liquipedia work, finding out stuff about players that other people hadn't etc... but then work and school got in the way. I plan to return to it eventually.
I don't fear the staff, you can always have an interesting conversation between people of good will
I'm sad, however, that I can't afford the time in my life to contribute seriously on this website It would so deserve it... Maybe sometime !
I'll have to be content with contributing during european events. (I'll forever remember being the SC1 admin for the WWI 2008 event though, <3 Savior and Kal especially !)
The day I get a warning will be when I have to seriously reconsider a few things ! (don't look at my post history, it's just not worth it, there's basically nothing of interest inside :D)
Kudos to Naz, TLO, Carmac, Shawn, and so many other admins or players for helping esports with us ^^ (and a special one to MLG_Lee for taking a good chunk of his time in December to discuss the extended series problem with a guy he totally didn't know :D -was useless though, sadly -)
On September 07 2011 03:27 reg0ner wrote: "don't post idiotically and you won't face the hammer."
It's not even about posting idiotically, you'll face the ban hammer anyway. I love SC2. I love TeamLiquid. I love gaming.
But if your opinion is different than any mod that's maybe not having a good day. You're going to get banned 9 times out of 10. There's almost no reason to post here. I think reddit is pretty awesome though.
Back to #foreverlurking Have a great day!
I dunno, I can't remember ever being warned or banned, in part because I've always tried to contribute something with my posts and not tried to be disrespectful to anyone, except as part of mafia arguments, but I don't mean it! I just think if you're thoughtful and mature about what you say, you won't ever run into problems.
I've never seen someone be warned or banned for disagreeing with a moderator. Usually when posts complaining about TL bans show up, the person banned posted a very insensitive and unthoughtful comment.
Artosis (I believe) once made a video of him interviewing TL staff, and in one of those, he interviews FakeSteve; my mental depictions of him remained unchanged...
I just fear live report threads, In any other thread I can control myself fine, but for whatever reason I cant in LR threads. Virtually all of my bans /warnings come from those (aside from 1, which I didnt think was fair, but thats another issue).
So I've pretty much decided to stay out of LR threads completely, if I read them I cant resist. hahaha. That pretty much the only time I fear mods, otherwise as long as your respectful in how you say things, and you put some thought into it your pretty much fine.
On September 07 2011 03:27 reg0ner wrote: But if your opinion is different than any mod that's maybe not having a good day. You're going to get banned 9 times out of 10. There's almost no reason to post here. I think reddit is pretty awesome though.
On September 07 2011 03:27 reg0ner wrote: "don't post idiotically and you won't face the hammer."
It's not even about posting idiotically, you'll face the ban hammer anyway. I love SC2. I love TeamLiquid. I love gaming.
But if your opinion is different than any mod that's maybe not having a good day. You're going to get banned 9 times out of 10. There's almost no reason to post here. I think reddit is pretty awesome though.
Back to #foreverlurking Have a great day!
Here's your two bans. I think we can all agree this isn't the situation you described.
On September 07 2011 03:27 reg0ner wrote: "don't post idiotically and you won't face the hammer."
It's not even about posting idiotically, you'll face the ban hammer anyway. I love SC2. I love TeamLiquid. I love gaming.
But if your opinion is different than any mod that's maybe not having a good day. You're going to get banned 9 times out of 10. There's almost no reason to post here. I think reddit is pretty awesome though.
Back to #foreverlurking Have a great day!
Here's your two bans. I think we can all agree this isn't the situation you described.
On September 07 2011 03:27 reg0ner wrote: "don't post idiotically and you won't face the hammer."
It's not even about posting idiotically, you'll face the ban hammer anyway. I love SC2. I love TeamLiquid. I love gaming.
But if your opinion is different than any mod that's maybe not having a good day. You're going to get banned 9 times out of 10. There's almost no reason to post here. I think reddit is pretty awesome though.
Back to #foreverlurking Have a great day!
Here's your two bans. I think we can all agree this isn't the situation you described.
It's like this on here and on Reddit, previously banned user always posts claiming unfair treatment, and then we go back and look at the posts and its like 100% black or white situation always, looking at those two posts can you really say you were only banned because the mod "had a different opinion" or "wasn't having a good day"?
I'm not a staff member, so obviously I have a different viewpoint.. Still, I'd like to add something. Not everyone can dedicate the time to contribute to Liquipedia, update a LR thread, write quality blogs or whatnot. In a community as big as this it's impossible for everyone to become a noteable name. However, simply posting meaningful replies - and also not posting, which is often better than posting ^^ - makes you a quality community member. If you have the time, knowledge, skills and passion to do something awesome, great, but it is by no means an issue if you don't.
I think one of the most interesting aspects that is bitter sweet in a way is seeing posts of mine from years ago, and in the thread, being surrounded by people with nuke icons... It's sweet because I loved the no bullshit policy and it made sense almost all of the time with very few exceptions... It might seem bad seeing people I once knew, and were friends with some banned, but the result of all that was so good... I still see that some today, not as much, but I think when the wave goes down a bit, it will start to return. I hope people don't interpret this wrong. I don't like seeing my friends banned or anything, just in general, a clean forum with no bullshit, which happens on very few forums besides Teamliquid. Although the community getting 10x bigger has some negative results, it brings forth a lot of positive aspects, as well as funny ones... I've seen posts on reddit saying TL banned them for no reason, then reading their posts and seeing them just post piles and piles of shit that make you ask whether they are 9 or 10 years old. As Brood war is slowly going away, (Please slow down T.T), I think TL's core aspects will stay, especially after things die down a bit, similar to when SC2 was just announced.
5/5 Thank you for the perspective Plexa. I can't tell you how many posts I've typed and deleted before hitting "Post" or even "Preview" (this one has actually been deleted twice before submission ^^;; ).
I hope that your personal health remains resilient and strong.
In regards to your last paragraph, I understand that everyone has the ability to contribute their own talents to the TL community but isn't the ability to be liked in a text-only format a talent on it's own? I honestly think there are people like me who hold back their opinions in this forum, not out of fear of the mods but fear of poor post quality as a whole. Quality is important to me and if I fear that my contribution is of poor quality, I just won't contribute.
As an opposing viewpoint to mine, I suppose people like me could strive to take day9's advice and strive to "get better publicly" rather then striving for silent perfection.
Can you elaborate on your surgery? Are you better now?
I am scared of TL staff because I still feel one of my three bans was pretty unjustified x_X + Show Spoiler +
I basically stated my opinion that day[9] isn't that good, and that djwheat had a nasaly voice, but I thought I said so in a mannered way. I PM'd the mod who banned me, he said it was because I said day9 wasn't good and didn't provide reasoning -- i didn't provide reasoning because i didn't want to derail a live tourney thread about why i got the impression that day9 theorycrafted more than he actually played serious 1v1s
On September 07 2011 03:27 reg0ner wrote: "don't post idiotically and you won't face the hammer."
It's not even about posting idiotically, you'll face the ban hammer anyway. I love SC2. I love TeamLiquid. I love gaming.
But if your opinion is different than any mod that's maybe not having a good day. You're going to get banned 9 times out of 10. There's almost no reason to post here. I think reddit is pretty awesome though.
Back to #foreverlurking Have a great day!
I know many staff members have already chimed in about this, but as someone who mostly will just read the forums quite a bit (and someone that came from a forum where it was ACTUALLY like this) I wanted to also agree that you're quite wrong. When talking to Nazgul at Raleigh about this he seemed rather surprised that from a lurker's view that his staff was fair and reasonable and not strict at all, which is I guess because people complain about tl mods being strict or whatever. The staff does an excellent job at banning people when they need to be banned and MOST IMPORTANTLY not acting like total jerks with superiority complexes when banning people (a big issue I've had with mods on other boards I've visited in the past). I've got my own reasons for posting very little on forums in general these days, but if I was to ever get back into being as ridiculously active on forums as I used to be I would feel quite comfortable here.
Honestly after my like 3 month ban from Strat forums.. Apposed to posting like 10 times a day in strat, I'll do like 1. I find myself writing up something then quickly erasing it because fear of ban. Mods do a good job !~
Man I just gotta say, your TLFE, articles, news posts and even sometime simple posts are one of the big reasons that made me wanna come back on TL back when I first browsed this site. You're definitely one of my favorite staff members, and I just hope we'll see you write some more articles some time in the future. <3
On September 07 2011 05:50 lee365 wrote: I still won't post much because i believe i am a terrible writer. Not just because im scared of Pandemic and Manifesto.
Actually I get the impression that Manifesto is really the strong gentle-hearted kind of guy. He doesn't swing his banhammer because he wants to but because sombody have to. Because he's the hero TeamLiquid deserves and the one it needs right now. So we'll fear him because he can take it. Because he's our hero. The strong guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight.
Plexa is king. Hope you get your health back on track
More on topic, im at that point where i really would like to contribute in some way, but im the kind of person who writes an entire page and then discards it without having someone else reading it through haha
I`m very thankful for the hard work that all the staff members made to provide us that awesome community we have today. You`ve done a great job. Keep it up!
I still feel like shit when I think about the three warnings I have. It's like thinking about how you COULD have saved that little boy from drowning, but didn't, and now you gotta live with it forevermore. Really, though, I feel bad about them not because I'm scared of another, but because each is a sign that I let the TL staff down somehow. I try to be a good poster all the time, but every so often my inner retard says hi, and when I get the warning PM, I feel so demoralized, like I ruined the big party for everyone by puking on the popular girls, and all my friends are pissed.
Or maybe I'm needlessly melodramatic. I dunno. In any case, great blog.
On September 07 2011 08:29 Aeres wrote: I still feel like shit when I think about the three warnings I have. It's like thinking about how you COULD have saved that little boy from drowning, but didn't, and now you gotta live with it forevermore. Really, though, I feel bad about them not because I'm scared of another, but because each is a sign that I let the TL staff down somehow. I try to be a good poster all the time, but every so often my inner retard says hi, and when I get the warning PM, I feel so demoralized, like I ruined the big party for everyone by puking on the popular girls, and all my friends are pissed.
Or maybe I'm needlessly melodramatic. I dunno. In any case, great blog.
I'm going with needlessly melodramatic. If I had a choice between letting a little boy drown and getting a post moderated on TL, I'd let the post get modded.
This was a pretty nice read. It's always interesting to read from the humble beginnings of a moderator/admin on TL. It kind of reminds me of one time when in the live Q&A 2(?) years ago when you guys said Fakesteve was just some guy yelling at noobs before he got upped to a mod. XD Also...when reading this title, did anyone else immediately think of "don't fear the reaper?" ^^;
On September 07 2011 08:29 Aeres wrote: I still feel like shit when I think about the three warnings I have. It's like thinking about how you COULD have saved that little boy from drowning, but didn't, and now you gotta live with it forevermore. Really, though, I feel bad about them not because I'm scared of another, but because each is a sign that I let the TL staff down somehow. I try to be a good poster all the time, but every so often my inner retard says hi, and when I get the warning PM, I feel so demoralized, like I ruined the big party for everyone by puking on the popular girls, and all my friends are pissed.
Or maybe I'm needlessly melodramatic. I dunno. In any case, great blog.
I'm going with needlessly melodramatic. If I had a choice between letting a little boy drown and getting a post moderated on TL, I'd let the post get modded.
That wasn't the comparison I was trying to make. I meant that receiving the warning IS like letting the little boy drown because you were stupid / drinking too much / whatever.
On September 07 2011 08:29 Aeres wrote: I still feel like shit when I think about the three warnings I have. It's like thinking about how you COULD have saved that little boy from drowning, but didn't, and now you gotta live with it forevermore. Really, though, I feel bad about them not because I'm scared of another, but because each is a sign that I let the TL staff down somehow. I try to be a good poster all the time, but every so often my inner retard says hi, and when I get the warning PM, I feel so demoralized, like I ruined the big party for everyone by puking on the popular girls, and all my friends are pissed.
Or maybe I'm needlessly melodramatic. I dunno. In any case, great blog.
I'm going with needlessly melodramatic. If I had a choice between letting a little boy drown and getting a post moderated on TL, I'd let the post get modded.
That wasn't the comparison I was trying to make. I meant that receiving the warning IS like letting the little boy drown because you were stupid / drinking too much / whatever.
But yeah. Melodrama is fun.
Melodrama is awesome. I'm just saying, they seem to hit different points on the catastro-meter.
My own short contribution to this thread: My very first post on TL was on one of the first TLFE's, and I basically told Manifesto that I disagreed with everything he said. We had a nice debate that went on for a few posts, and I didn't get banned or warned.
I also remember in one of my first twenty posts, I argued that Baekmagoji would be a very good map for Terran to go mech vs Zerg, and Fakesteve called me a retard because Terran mech had been unfashionable for a long time (and because I couldn't spell Mutalisk). We discussed it briefly, the game started and DarkElf went mech, and once again I didn't get warned or banned. I specifically remember that discussion because I was a low post newbie and I figured something out that even the veterans didn't think was likely (mech went on to become standard play on Baekmagoji) which made me realise that even a nobody could contribute if they found their niche. That discussion eventually led to my twoTLFE's which both focused on understanding how maps affected gameplay.
You'll never get banned on TL for disagreeing with someone, mod or regular poster, as long as you do it properly. Also, never think that TL is too big for you to contribute. Everyone can make the forums better, even if it is just by thinking before they post.
Lol i love reading those old threads and seeing the post quality of the now awesome staff :p
I think people complain when short term things don't go their way, but over all the moderation staff provide an incredible service to this community to ensure it remains a civil place for good discussion and news without turning into a swamp of gossip, drama and trolls (reddit?)
Your "last post" represented a significant loss to this community; it was a little bit shocking for every i am sure. Even in my short time here you have most certainly made an impact on my experience (first mod that i PMd - apparently "w00t" "wat" and "lol" are not good posts) Anyway i am glad you came back! I hope you are recovering well
On September 07 2011 03:27 reg0ner wrote: But if your opinion is different than any mod that's maybe not having a good day. You're going to get banned 9 times out of 10. There's almost no reason to post here. I think reddit is pretty awesome though.
I would love to see an example of this.
I kind of want to ban him for disagreeing with me, just for the irony. Oh but wait, I'm not "not having a bad day" so I guess I won't. He's so right.
Honestly Plexa, I'm still a bit scared of you, and nevermoreso than when I was on riptide's beta account because of his generosity and you started chatting with me haha...our 2v2s were the first SC2 I'd ever played
I remember the first post I made on TL. I think I asked where you could find popular maps like lost temple and BGH. That thread got closed. I eventually contributed a bit, some by live reporting games, and some by updating of the small VOD thread.
Excellent write up Plexa, its enlightening to know how things came to be and hearing how every single member of the staff contributed something just shows that every member of TL staff is a hard worker and does it all for the community and their love of Esports and that they all started out small.
I enjoy reading what staff members have to say in each thread, its funny the manner in which you all post(this also goes for forum veterans), its hard to explain I suppose it is like all of you are able to put your persona into your post.
If someone covered the names, people would still be able to tell who wrote the post just because you all share your own views and have your own way of doing things and each person is a little different from the next. However most forums would only have 1-2 people that have that effect, but I think every member of TL staff does and I think that is because you all care and work so hard for TL, its great that so many people like that are all in one place.
On September 07 2011 03:14 PHILtheTANK wrote: I live in constant fear of the staff!
My posting started off pretty terribly, but id like to think i was slowly improving, and then i wake up the other day after a night of drinking and see a bunch of jibberish i posted and got temp banned for Need to attach a breathalyzer to my computer so I don't get perma banned.
But anyway, very nice ride Plexa!
Haha I saw your drunken escapade on one of those LR threads. It was quite entertaining, though.
On September 07 2011 03:14 PHILtheTANK wrote: I live in constant fear of the staff!
My posting started off pretty terribly, but id like to think i was slowly improving, and then i wake up the other day after a night of drinking and see a bunch of jibberish i posted and got temp banned for Need to attach a breathalyzer to my computer so I don't get perma banned.
But anyway, very nice ride Plexa!
Haha I saw your drunken escapade on one of those LR threads. It was quite entertaining, though.
Not exactly my best showing lol. I didn't even really read what i wrote the next day because i was so embarassed and just had no idea what i was talking about. Im fairly certain I was just pissed about that July v MVP series.
Hi Plexa, this was a really good read. It makes me feel a bit more secure when dealing with mods and such, although I haven't had too much interaction with them. I had a thread of mine that was closed, and honestly even that just kind of made me nervous about future posts. You guys really do want people to think HARD before clicking the post button, and in the end I understood why it had to be closed; my thread was shit. I've also had a couple of posts that weren't too well received, and that too makes me a little nervous. I don't want to get banned. I don't even want to get warned.
In the end though, it's a good thing because TL is truly a diamond in the rough when it comes to the quality of discussion, and I would think that the fear (if that even properly describes it) is a good one to have sometimes, because it produces so many quality posts.
At least you obviously have turned into a great writer! That's something!
Anyway, for me, as a newer user of TL.net (SC2 ftw) I cannot say I have a huge emotional connection to its staff yet. However, I understand the pain you must go through having to leave due to your health. I really hope you make it back and that I once will have a close connection to you.
This is such a great article and at least has given me a sense of direction on where im going in this community. I realise the privilege given to us to share our ideas with other like-minded people is such a blessing, and in this community you know every post you make will get at least a couple of views and people will think about your messages that you try and convey. Adding people like you into the mix, and you'd be hard pressed to find a better online community anywhere in the world right now
On September 07 2011 15:18 Grobyc wrote: I'm sure TL staff fears the mass userbase much more than the typical user fears the staff.
I don't know how that emoticon is supposed to be used, but I felt like using it.
This one also seems to have no use whatsoever.
Looking at that old LR thread, it looked like and a couple others were used a lot more. I'm curious, what lead to the demise of this ever-so-fitting smiley?
On September 07 2011 15:53 Raidern wrote: can someone talk me about the KOR head shaving incident Carmac mentions in his 2005 review?
KOR (who became sparkyz) shaved their heads one season as a motivator and went on a ridiculous tear in ogn proleauge (team leagues were separate in those times iirc).
Good read. It's really nice to hear about your TL journey. I've never had any issue with mods or any staff member but I do admittedly try my best to not be an idiot in any way so that may have something to do with it. =P
This is a good blog, In my time lurking TL there has been very few warnings or bans ive seen while reading a thread that I could not agree with, most (if not all?) mods seem really reasonable people and frankly im quite surprised at the gestapo image that TL mods have in the eyes of some members / communities it seems really unwarranted.
oh yeah and the TL no martyring policy is the best thing ever, I really dislike those kinds of posts :p
On September 07 2011 19:31 Beyonder wrote: Yaay Plexa <3! Nicely written, hope many new users read this
Hey. I'm a new user! Well, I've been lurking for a good while, but just finally joined. As a new user I can say this was a great read. The notion of trying to make your mark and do something good for anything, from our little nerdy world to the whole wide teamliquid, is an intimidating idea. But the approach of doing things because you want to do them for people you want to do them for will get you much farther in anything you do in life than doing something for the sake of your e-or-rl-peen... well, go ahead and do things for your rl-peen, but screw your e-peen, or is that the other way around...
Anyway, great read! I enjoyed it and am glad you're a part of our community!
Meh... sure there are nice ones but some are kind of douché-y like Kenniget imo, anyone who would wield the power to mute a person should atleast be ready to answer them after the ban. I don't mind being banned of which I have and I know I take that risk at times because that risk does not outweigh my feeling of the subject I am expressing myself in.
But what I do dislike is when the ban is obviously abit skewed in perspective, understandable, but I don't like it. All I need there is a simple answer when I ask the moderator to further explain the ban. Not being answered a muted person is for me the worst of sins as a moderator.
EDIT: My point is; Yes most of TL admins and moderators are obviously people, and with that comes good virtues and faults. I do not dislike the TL staff and frankly I am even glad when if I am banned for borderline disruptive behavior the moderator just answers a simple question. Such a small geasture and it makes me felt respected as a person. This isn't a democratic forum sure but it should promote virtues we consider inheritly good or just lest it be an unattractive prospect for new people. As in it is in the best interest of the moderators to appear homely for new people, this topic is a good example of a succesfull attempt at this. So TLDR: Moderators are people, people act based on emotion and prejudice regardless of position or rank, there are more or less friendly ones and there is no way around it.
I read a bit of that '05 live report thread and I'm fascinated by how ancient 2005 seems in StarCraft/TL measures. Quite heartwarming It feels good to be a part of this community, even as a newbie. Would've been nice to be around in the old days though, haha.
On September 07 2011 21:09 Krehlmar wrote: Meh... sure there are nice ones but some are kind of douché-y like Kenniget imo, anyone who would wield the power to mute a person should atleast be ready to answer them after the ban. I don't mind being banned of which I have and I know I take that risk at times because that risk does not outweigh my feeling of the subject I am expressing myself in.
But what I do dislike is when the ban is obviously abit skewed in perspective, understandable, but I don't like it. All I need there is a simple answer when I ask the moderator to further explain the ban. Not being answered a muted person is for me the worst of sins as a moderator.
EDIT: My point is; Yes most of TL admins and moderators are obviously people, and with that comes good virtues and faults. I do not dislike the TL staff and frankly I am even glad when if I am banned for borderline disruptive behavior the moderator just answers a simple question. Such a small geasture and it makes me felt respected as a person. This isn't a democratic forum sure but it should promote virtues we consider inheritly good or just lest it be an unattractive prospect for new people. As in it is in the best interest of the moderators to appear homely for new people, this topic is a good example of a succesfull attempt at this. So TLDR: Moderators are people, people act based on emotion and prejudice regardless of position or rank, there are more or less friendly ones and there is no way around it.
If that ever happens again, PM another moderator and we can look into it.
Does not mention origin of the waffles. I'm quite disappointed (wanted Plexa's descript on this).
Learned just a wee bit of BW trivia by reading back-references on SC2 strategies (Phoenix/DT writeup back in the days of Kulas Ravine spoke of its similarities to the bisu build). I really doubt my BW knowledge will ever be very complete compared to those that played and followed it through the glory years where legends were born. But hey, now I know that Plexa made some ground-up posts on BW history so I can get some inkling there!
Very motivational speech about the reverence assigned to contributors. I do look at post count and keep an eye out for guys that always provide insightful posts, especially in Strategy (<3 CecilSunkure, Anihc, sleepingdog, others I'm forgetting). I don't think the general vibe is misunderstanding about the mods / reputation for being harsh. It's actually refreshing seeing prompt moderation of threads with a little humor from the mods administering it, at times! The talk I hear about harsh moderation is a vocal few, where the majority (lurkers included) enjoy seeing content-filled (mostly) threads where the scum is scooped off the top and set aside (top hopefully improve posting habits). For every mod-whiner, there's 5 posters and 10 lurkers loving the results. I've made it post 700 posts without a warning or ban, so can everybody else imo.
In my own TL experience, I was floored at guys from battle.net ladder and chat channels recognizing my name from posting on TeamLiquid. We had great discussions from it. Same happens in reverse, which led to a season on a team for an online team league. Small world, TeamLiquid world, eSports world! ESPORTS (That's for you shindigs).
My gf studies food technology, essentially food engineering, which is basically the study of producing mass marketed foods and is most definitely not cooking. She's always enjoyed foodtech, even at highschool. Her first ever project was on waffles which I was heavily involved with. For some reason, I changed my MSN name to include "~WAFFLES~" where it sat for many years. When the time rolled around for me to get an icon I struggled to come up with something. I had some ideas but nothing really worked. I think a lot of my writing is a bunch of waffle, that in combination with WAFFLES in my MSN name lead me to choosing waffles.
On September 07 2011 23:27 JingleHell wrote: Hey, Waffles are amazing. Besides, they're frequently eaten with Bacon, which is truly a god amongst food.
BACON?! WHAT?!
I just recently discovered "american" pancakes, and they were probably one of the best things i've ever eaten (no innuendo's here), but fucking BACON.
Actually, I learned german way back and it was one of the words that stuck with me. I only learned about that song later, when someone asked if that's what it was in reference too
On September 07 2011 21:09 Krehlmar wrote: Meh... sure there are nice ones but some are kind of douché-y like Kenniget
Have you met him in real life (I have btw)? Do you have any idea how much shit he does for TL, and ESPORTS in general, only to have people like you shit on him?
Yea..... Same goes for any of the other staff members.
On September 07 2011 23:27 JingleHell wrote: Hey, Waffles are amazing. Besides, they're frequently eaten with Bacon, which is truly a god amongst food.
BACON?! WHAT?!
I just recently discovered "american" pancakes, and they were probably one of the best things i've ever eaten (no innuendo's here), but fucking BACON.
It sounds disgusting and immoral. But perhaps...
American pancakes, haha. I haven't had pancakes in so long, but they are so delicious...
On the contrary, I had the opportunity to try æbleskiver not to long ago, oh man...I'm proud of my Danish half of my heritage.
Let's trade pancakes? Denmark is almost Norway, right? :p
On September 07 2011 21:09 Krehlmar wrote: Meh... sure there are nice ones but some are kind of douché-y like Kenniget
Have you met him in real life (I have btw)? Do you have any idea how much shit he does for TL, and ESPORTS in general, only to have people like you shit on him?
Yea..... Same goes for any of the other staff members.
Kennigit and some others can be quite abrasive when they ban so it's understandable that some people get rubbed the wrong way.
On September 07 2011 21:09 Krehlmar wrote: Meh... sure there are nice ones but some are kind of douché-y like Kenniget
Have you met him in real life (I have btw)? Do you have any idea how much shit he does for TL, and ESPORTS in general, only to have people like you shit on him?
Yea..... Same goes for any of the other staff members.
Kennigit and some others can be quite abrasive when they ban so it's understandable that some people get rubbed the wrong way.
some guy walked up to Kennigit in Raleigh and started cursing him out pretty hardcore because he got banned he was really mad!!! It was an amusing scene.
Damn this sore throat. It's the sand, damned if it isn't. The sand. It keeps getting in my throat and into my eyes. If only the wind would let up, for just a second, but it never does. You have to dress in layers. Not because of the cold, though this place certainly has no excess in temperature either, but you gotta dress in layers to keep the sand out. I've seen people dress in less thick get-ups and I've seen the consequences. Once the sand takes you, you're gone. No wits left, no - reason, no common sense. Just trolldom. And... Butthurt. Too much butthurt for any man to stay sane.
*cough*, *cough* -
It all started with -
*cough*
- with this blog, you know... A blog by... Plecks or Plaxe or something, I can't remember, though I have this feeling I used to know him. Him, her... No, him. It was about something like how he was just like anyone else, and how you shouldn't be afraid of the mods. He was a mod, I think. It was a good read. It made you feel welcome and gave you a sense of togetherness, of community. It didn't last though. It was a sign of weakness you see. In his kindness, he had unwittingly shown a chink in the armor of Teé - ell.Things started going downhill pretty quickly after that.
People lost respect. Well not people, trolls. Or maybe they were people at first, I don't know, nobody does.
Anyway... There was anarchy in Blogs. Strategy was all but lost to incoherent droves of mid-golds, staking their lives to the supremacy of the 18 nex mothership rush in shallow, vehement gasps. I remember seeing... Chill as he fought desperately to stay afloat, to stay alive, and sane in that sea of idiocy. As for General... it...
Hah, you know, I haven't spoken about it for so long, I don't know what I should, or rather what I can - I don't know, I mean I can't... You see, after having seen something like that you just kind of, you know, uh... I... I don't like to talk about it. Nobody does. Nobody worth listening to anyway. You may as well ask the sky. Just don't ask them. A family of racoons would be better. They might at least refrain from calling you a faggot.
I'm gonna go now. There's nothing left for me here now. Just this irritating, nonsensical sand in this inconsiderate wind. I have to leave before it gets the best of me. You should too. But if you should decide to stay, make sure to dress in layers. Once it gets to you, and you start to lash out in your pain and your resentment, you're screwed.
Actually, I learned german way back and it was one of the words that stuck with me. I only learned about that song later, when someone asked if that's what it was in reference too
Dear Plexa, you know I love you and everything, but despite you being a mod and all... holy shit, I mean what the hell!??!?!? TOKIO HOTEL?!?!??! AAAAAAAARGH. 8[! Every German (other than 14y/o girls) hates the fuck outta them XDDD Really nobody to make names after *sigh*
Other than that nice read. Even tho I was never really afraid of you anyway I do fear you even less now! Edit: Dat mani quote above... hahaha
On September 07 2011 21:09 Krehlmar wrote: Meh... sure there are nice ones but some are kind of douché-y like Kenniget
Have you met him in real life (I have btw)? Do you have any idea how much shit he does for TL, and ESPORTS in general, only to have people like you shit on him?
Yea..... Same goes for any of the other staff members.
Kennigit and some others can be quite abrasive when they ban so it's understandable that some people get rubbed the wrong way.
some guy walked up to Kennigit in Raleigh and started cursing him out pretty hardcore because he got banned he was really mad!!! It was an amusing scene.
On September 07 2011 21:09 Krehlmar wrote: Meh... sure there are nice ones but some are kind of douché-y like Kenniget
Have you met him in real life (I have btw)? Do you have any idea how much shit he does for TL, and ESPORTS in general, only to have people like you shit on him?
Yea..... Same goes for any of the other staff members.
Kennigit and some others can be quite abrasive when they ban so it's understandable that some people get rubbed the wrong way.
some guy walked up to Kennigit in Raleigh and started cursing him out pretty hardcore because he got banned he was really mad!!! It was an amusing scene.
This is why cameras were invented.
sorry it was very spur of the moment and most of the people were too busy laughing/in shock that he was actually serious did not have time to pull out the camera
On September 07 2011 21:09 Krehlmar wrote: Meh... sure there are nice ones but some are kind of douché-y like Kenniget
Have you met him in real life (I have btw)? Do you have any idea how much shit he does for TL, and ESPORTS in general, only to have people like you shit on him?
Yea..... Same goes for any of the other staff members.
Kennigit and some others can be quite abrasive when they ban so it's understandable that some people get rubbed the wrong way.
True, but the automated ban list thread wouldn't be amusing without witty mod comebacks to dumb posts. It's what makes the thread one of the best in TL.
On September 07 2011 21:09 Krehlmar wrote: Meh... sure there are nice ones but some are kind of douché-y like Kenniget
Have you met him in real life (I have btw)? Do you have any idea how much shit he does for TL, and ESPORTS in general, only to have people like you shit on him?
Yea..... Same goes for any of the other staff members.
Kennigit and some others can be quite abrasive when they ban so it's understandable that some people get rubbed the wrong way.
True, but the automated ban list thread wouldn't be amusing without witty mod comebacks to dumb posts. It's what makes the thread one of the best in TL.
That is, if you consider "I have my reasons." to be a witty remark.
On September 07 2011 21:09 Krehlmar wrote: Meh... sure there are nice ones but some are kind of douché-y like Kenniget
Have you met him in real life (I have btw)? Do you have any idea how much shit he does for TL, and ESPORTS in general, only to have people like you shit on him?
Yea..... Same goes for any of the other staff members.
Kennigit and some others can be quite abrasive when they ban so it's understandable that some people get rubbed the wrong way.
Kennigit is hilarious 100% of his bans, but I can understand some people would get kind of offended if they felt insulted or something. I say it's no big deal and they should get over it, but then again i've never been banned by kennigit (I never intend to either) so I guess I dunno how it feels having that gif slammed in your face haha
On September 07 2011 21:09 Krehlmar wrote: Meh... sure there are nice ones but some are kind of douché-y like Kenniget
Have you met him in real life (I have btw)? Do you have any idea how much shit he does for TL, and ESPORTS in general, only to have people like you shit on him?
Yea..... Same goes for any of the other staff members.
Kennigit and some others can be quite abrasive when they ban so it's understandable that some people get rubbed the wrong way.
True, but the automated ban list thread wouldn't be amusing without witty mod comebacks to dumb posts. It's what makes the thread one of the best in TL.
That is, if you consider "I have my reasons." to be a witty remark.
It's impossible to use that as a ban reason now anyways.
Damn this sore throat. It's the sand, damned if it isn't. The sand. It keeps getting in my throat and into my eyes. If only the wind would let up, for just a second, but it never does. You have to dress in layers. Not because of the cold, though this place certainly has no excess in temperature either, but you gotta dress in layers to keep the sand out. I've seen people dress in less thick get-ups and I've seen the consequences. Once the sand takes you, you're gone. No wits left, no - reason, no common sense. Just trolldom. And... Butthurt. Too much butthurt for any man to stay sane.
*cough*, *cough* -
It all started with -
*cough*
- with this blog, you know... A blog by... Plecks or Plaxe or something, I can't remember, though I have this feeling I used to know him. Him, her... No, him. It was about something like how he was just like anyone else, and how you shouldn't be afraid of the mods. He was a mod, I think. It was a good read. It made you feel welcome and gave you a sense of togetherness, of community. It didn't last though. It was a sign of weakness you see. In his kindness, he had unwittingly shown a chink in the armor of Teé - ell.Things started going downhill pretty quickly after that.
People lost respect. Well not people, trolls. Or maybe they were people at first, I don't know, nobody does.
Anyway... There was anarchy in Blogs. Strategy was all but lost to incoherent droves of mid-golds, staking their lives to the supremacy of the 18 nex mothership rush in shallow, vehement gasps. I remember seeing... Chill as he fought desperately to stay afloat, to stay alive, and sane in that sea of idiocy. As for General... it...
Hah, you know, I haven't spoken about it for so long, I don't know what I should, or rather what I can - I don't know, I mean I can't... You see, after having seen something like that you just kind of, you know, uh... I... I don't like to talk about it. Nobody does. Nobody worth listening to anyway. You may as well ask the sky. Just don't ask them. A family of racoons would be better. They might at least refrain from calling you a faggot.
I'm gonna go now. There's nothing left for me here now. Just this irritating, nonsensical sand in this inconsiderate wind. I have to leave before it gets the best of me. You should too. But if you should decide to stay, make sure to dress in layers. Once it gets to you, and you start to lash out in your pain and your resentment, you're screwed.
*cough*
*COUGH*
... You... fucking noob...
I don't know what else to say except, Thank You.
Now, if only you mentioned the word or the other word it would be perfect...
On September 07 2011 21:09 Krehlmar wrote: Meh... sure there are nice ones but some are kind of douché-y like Kenniget imo, anyone who would wield the power to mute a person should atleast be ready to answer them after the ban.
You have been banned and warned 15 times - By #8 or so i get mad, that people can be so bad at posting on TL. If you think you are owed an answer when banned, then at this point you are probably on the wrong site.
Kennigit is so scary nobody wants to post behind him anymore. Why exactly aren't we supposed to fear him? I mean aside from the fact that according to the ban list, his favorite two hobbies are fapping and squats...
I liked reading this, I dont know that I will ever contribute articles or nifty graphics but I have made a concerted effort to post decent responses or at least kind ones. I sometimes still let my inner-dickhead come out but I try to realize it and not let it type.
I think a lot of people misunderstand when they get a ban because they assume it was for the disagreeing part of their post and not the raging asshole way that they posted their disagreement.
Also most of the thread responses here are cracking me up, learning so many things. Now I understand about the waffles! Although Im still really curious about klogons bread....cat?
On September 09 2011 11:53 Synwave wrote: I liked reading this, I dont know that I will ever contribute articles or nifty graphics but I have made a concerted effort to post decent responses or at least kind ones. I sometimes still let my inner-dickhead come out but I try to realize it and not let it type.
I think a lot of people misunderstand when they get a ban because they assume it was for the disagreeing part of their post and not the raging asshole way that they posted their disagreement.
Also most of the thread responses here are cracking me up, learning so many things. Now I understand about the waffles! Although Im still really curious about klogons bread....cat?
If people don't know they got moderated for being a raging asshole rather than the other part of their content, they might just be kind of thick, to put it nicely. Just have to read the actual text of the warning or ban, usually, and you can PM a mod if it's vague or you don't know which post it was.
I've never had trouble figuring out that I was in trouble for being an asshole. But then, I also know I'm an asshole, which makes it a reasonable guess. A lot of people are in denial.
On September 09 2011 11:19 JingleHell wrote: Kennigit is so scary nobody wants to post behind him anymore. Why exactly aren't we supposed to fear him? I mean aside from the fact that according to the ban list, his favorite two hobbies are fapping and squats...
Will also say, out of all the Staff I met in my community, at NASL S1 finals, and at MLG Anaheim (3 mods, 6 in the 5k+ posts, 1 staff), gotta say I like em all.
Also, Manifesto called me bad mannered once after I won a game vs him with allied spider mines. Y.Y
I was sad too cause I used to visit his rwa (replays with audio) website ALL the time and he was the most famous caster I knew. I just wanted to be frands :D
I'm not a total oldschooler but i was here in the late BW days
Back then, it was OK to talk random crap and shit, post silly stuff because it was in MODERATION and everyone had fun. Not flaming or abuse, but just like silly/random/funny stuff, and people would laugh and be like "haha" and nobody would get banned. The reason is because people were in general nicer to each other, so we were allowed to have nice things
Nowadays you don't get this anymore and all the mods have red eyes and so many people get banned left and right every day, many of which wouldn't have gotten the ban in the old days But its required to keep the forum sane
I guess the influx of the new people and the size of TL is the reason why we cant have those nice things anymore
There are a few threads where i feel more at liberty to post more freely (like anime, some of the game threads, MLP thread) because there is a distinct tone and community to those threads of friendliness so we can get away with it
But in general i dunno... I know the mods are doing their job (unlike any other forum), but i guess you could say i've been very discouraged at posting more in general because of the recent TL atmosphere. Its not the mods fault, its the posters
I don't really to think of myself as a vet (lol obv not, so many ppl who are more vet than me) but i've been here a while before the sc2 wave (and have lurked TL for a year or two before that) Still i'm a total unknown (though i dunno, if anyone in the thread recognizes me for having done something dumbshit or ultracool then say so haha). I've posted a bunch of stuff in the past that is definitely TOTALLY banworthy today but i didn't get banned WEEE. But thats because the atmosphere is different now Maybe because my acc is old enough and i have enough posts that isnt LR (never posted in one i think) then i get a little bit more leeway? Or maybe some mods are secretly hanging out in the anime thread or something haha
On September 09 2011 16:44 BrTarolg wrote: I'm not a total oldschooler but i was here in the late BW days
Back then, it was OK to talk random crap and shit, post silly stuff because it was in MODERATION and everyone had fun. Not flaming or abuse, but just like silly/random/funny stuff, and people would laugh and be like "haha" and nobody would get banned. The reason is because people were in general nicer to each other, so we were allowed to have nice things
Nowadays you don't get this anymore and all the mods have red eyes and so many people get banned left and right every day, many of which wouldn't have gotten the ban in the old days But its required to keep the forum sane
I guess the influx of the new people and the size of TL is the reason why we cant have those nice things anymore
There are a few threads where i feel more at liberty to post more freely (like anime, some of the game threads, MLP thread) because there is a distinct tone and community to those threads of friendliness so we can get away with it
But in general i dunno... I know the mods are doing their job (unlike any other forum), but i guess you could say i've been very discouraged at posting more in general because of the recent TL atmosphere. Its not the mods fault, its the posters
I don't really to think of myself as a vet (lol obv not, so many ppl who are more vet than me) but i've been here a while before the sc2 wave (and have lurked TL for a year or two before that) Still i'm a total unknown (though i dunno, if anyone in the thread recognizes me for having done something dumbshit or ultracool then say so haha). I've posted a bunch of stuff in the past that is definitely TOTALLY banworthy today but i didn't get banned WEEE. But thats because the atmosphere is different now Maybe because my acc is old enough and i have enough posts that isnt LR (never posted in one i think) then i get a little bit more leeway? Or maybe some mods are secretly hanging out in the anime thread or something haha
Totally agreed apart from the atmoshpere, i don't really feel any tense atmosphere really, except the mods are certainly easy going in the general forum
On September 09 2011 15:52 ZaplinG wrote: Rekrul was the one to fear when I first joined.
Also, Manifesto called me bad mannered once after I won a game vs him with allied spider mines. Y.Y
I was sad too cause I used to visit his rwa (replays with audio) website ALL the time and he was the most famous caster I knew. I just wanted to be frands :D
I still remember that game. I think I even have the replay. That was a DICK MOVE.
On September 09 2011 16:44 BrTarolg wrote: I'm not a total oldschooler but i was here in the late BW days
Back then, it was OK to talk random crap and shit, post silly stuff because it was in MODERATION and everyone had fun. Not flaming or abuse, but just like silly/random/funny stuff, and people would laugh and be like "haha" and nobody would get banned. The reason is because people were in general nicer to each other, so we were allowed to have nice things
Nowadays you don't get this anymore and all the mods have red eyes and so many people get banned left and right every day, many of which wouldn't have gotten the ban in the old days But its required to keep the forum sane
I guess the influx of the new people and the size of TL is the reason why we cant have those nice things anymore
There are a few threads where i feel more at liberty to post more freely (like anime, some of the game threads, MLP thread) because there is a distinct tone and community to those threads of friendliness so we can get away with it
But in general i dunno... I know the mods are doing their job (unlike any other forum), but i guess you could say i've been very discouraged at posting more in general because of the recent TL atmosphere. Its not the mods fault, its the posters
I don't really to think of myself as a vet (lol obv not, so many ppl who are more vet than me) but i've been here a while before the sc2 wave (and have lurked TL for a year or two before that) Still i'm a total unknown (though i dunno, if anyone in the thread recognizes me for having done something dumbshit or ultracool then say so haha). I've posted a bunch of stuff in the past that is definitely TOTALLY banworthy today but i didn't get banned WEEE. But thats because the atmosphere is different now Maybe because my acc is old enough and i have enough posts that isnt LR (never posted in one i think) then i get a little bit more leeway? Or maybe some mods are secretly hanging out in the anime thread or something haha
Totally agreed apart from the atmoshpere, i don't really feel any tense atmosphere really, except the mods are certainly easy going in the general forum
Have you ever entered a religious/political thread in the general forum?
Things get out of hand real quickly there.
The KMD, ADT,MLP threads and such are more lenient, however the first 2 are also from ''before'' the huge influx of sc2.
The KMD and ADT have spawned their ''own'' community pretty much.
E.G pretty much everyone knows each other in those threads, there likes, dislikes how to get on their nerves(lol).
Earlier back, there was a thread where Harem disagreed with my statement and I thought my ban's coming..... Fortunately it didn't come because another poster convinced him otherwise (or else I might have been passed off as a troll or something). A shitty experience (an educational one too) from my point but to me, it proved the message of this thread.
On September 10 2011 00:38 KaluGOSU wrote: u guys remove threads / ban people with no good reasoning sometimes. people will fear that. i'll probably get banned for just speaking up rofl.
Yeah, that second sentence makes itself a guarantee. Self fulfilling prophecy like.
And reasons you disagree with or don't know isn't the same as no reasons.
On September 10 2011 00:38 KaluGOSU wrote: u guys remove threads / ban people with no good reasoning sometimes. people will fear that. i'll probably get banned for just speaking up rofl.
You might get banned for being a martyr, but never for speaking up.
On September 09 2011 16:44 BrTarolg wrote: I'm not a total oldschooler but i was here in the late BW days
Back then, it was OK to talk random crap and shit, post silly stuff because it was in MODERATION and everyone had fun. Not flaming or abuse, but just like silly/random/funny stuff, and people would laugh and be like "haha" and nobody would get banned. The reason is because people were in general nicer to each other, so we were allowed to have nice things
Nowadays you don't get this anymore and all the mods have red eyes and so many people get banned left and right every day, many of which wouldn't have gotten the ban in the old days But its required to keep the forum sane
I guess the influx of the new people and the size of TL is the reason why we cant have those nice things anymore
There are a few threads where i feel more at liberty to post more freely (like anime, some of the game threads, MLP thread) because there is a distinct tone and community to those threads of friendliness so we can get away with it
But in general i dunno... I know the mods are doing their job (unlike any other forum), but i guess you could say i've been very discouraged at posting more in general because of the recent TL atmosphere. Its not the mods fault, its the posters
I don't really to think of myself as a vet (lol obv not, so many ppl who are more vet than me) but i've been here a while before the sc2 wave (and have lurked TL for a year or two before that) Still i'm a total unknown (though i dunno, if anyone in the thread recognizes me for having done something dumbshit or ultracool then say so haha). I've posted a bunch of stuff in the past that is definitely TOTALLY banworthy today but i didn't get banned WEEE. But thats because the atmosphere is different now Maybe because my acc is old enough and i have enough posts that isnt LR (never posted in one i think) then i get a little bit more leeway? Or maybe some mods are secretly hanging out in the anime thread or something haha
You're forever my hero for starting up that MS thread. It has now became a sanctuary of MS-related trolling, one of those holy places the newly tightened moderation has not reached into yet. Well, Harem certainly didn't appreciate all the "HUEHUEHUE" though. You probably also know that this thread (and game and the people) are still super awesome.
On September 10 2011 00:38 KaluGOSU wrote: u guys remove threads / ban people with no good reasoning sometimes. people will fear that. i'll probably get banned for just speaking up rofl.
Never, ever post that. It guarantees you one. You should probably read up the TL Ten Commandments in your off-time anyway.
On September 10 2011 00:38 KaluGOSU wrote: u guys remove threads / ban people with no good reasoning sometimes. people will fear that. i'll probably get banned for just speaking up rofl.
On September 10 2011 00:38 KaluGOSU wrote: u guys remove threads / ban people with no good reasoning sometimes. people will fear that. i'll probably get banned for just speaking up rofl.
On September 10 2011 02:41 vGl-CoW wrote: Nonsense, I have no idea what you are talking about. A good day to you, sir! *zooms off in diamond studded ESPORTS-mobile, powered by nerd tears*
Where can I buy one those automobiles if I may ask?
On September 10 2011 02:41 vGl-CoW wrote: Nonsense, I have no idea what you are talking about. A good day to you, sir! *zooms off in diamond studded ESPORTS-mobile, powered by nerd tears*
Where can I buy one those automobiles if I may ask?
For those of you who have been around for a year or so, there comes a time when you feel like you want to contribute to this community in any way you can. I don't really know why this is but I have one theory. TL is a website which celebrates and respects it's contributors. If you are a solid contributor you become known on TL and everyone respects you. I think thats something everyone strives for at some point. But hey, I could be way off.
This is so true. I started watching SC2 in beta with Husky/HD, heard of Day[9] -> started watching him, heard of TL -> started lurking. I registered my account in December 2010 but I lurked several month before. After registration I slowly started to post a bit and I finally started to find something that satisfied me: Starting threads, favourable LR threads. Since big tourneys are very good covered I mosten times take smaller events, mostly EU, and therefor get only a few pages of replies. But it´s a good feeling none the less and I always think that better posts are more important than many. The first LR was baaad (ok, the link in the OP gave me a good laugh :D ) and during the event I spend so much time to make it better. This continued in every thread I made (not many unfortunately) and it´s always such a nice feeling when randomly someone in the whole thread say something like "nice OP" "thanks!".
Yeah, I (hope) will never want to become staff, feels like I spend too much time already on TL, but I ofc appreciate the work staff make and enjoy every minute in online here. Thanks for that
On September 10 2011 00:50 OpticalShot wrote: You're forever my hero for starting up that MS thread. It has now became a sanctuary of MS-related trolling, one of those holy places the newly tightened moderation has not reached into yet. Well, Harem certainly didn't appreciate all the "HUEHUEHUE" though. You probably also know that this thread (and game and the people) are still super awesome.
On September 10 2011 00:38 KaluGOSU wrote: u guys remove threads / ban people with no good reasoning sometimes. people will fear that. i'll probably get banned for just speaking up rofl.
Never, ever post that. It guarantees you one. You should probably read up the TL Ten Commandments in your off-time anyway.
Haha totally awesome
That will probably be my reigning legacy on TL, starting up the MS thread lol
This blog should serve multiple purposes but all working towards a common theme. It will chart my time here on TeamLiquid; from regular user, to staff member, to 'quitting' TL back to today. This isn't meant to be an autobiography, rather an indicator to all that you aren't that different from the staff on this website. Why do this? Because an alarming number of you seem to be living in fear of the mod staff. While TeamLiquid has a reputation for harsh moderation, as long as you don't behave like an idiot and abide by our no-memes customs - then you will have no problem staying around. In particular, it is okay to openly challenge a staff member on the forums and it is okay to criticise TL's moderation (provided these are done in an appropriate way).
Plexa
I would like to take that opportunity to do that then, to appropriately challenge a small issue that happened with myself and a staff member. By no means is this an attack on a certain player/mod I would just like to discuss a situation that happened with myself and the mod.
I used to play a lot of 4v4RT. 4V4RT is just bad, stupid, usually a waste of time (since I've quit) but I used to enjoy it a lot until all the 4v4 cheeser teams just became too abusive. So anyways long story short I'm playing a 4V4RT and its on' Extinction'. (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Extinction Extinction)
I'm at the 7 o'clock and expand to the island to my direct left in the bottom right corner. I have turrets in my main. There's player bases in front of me that have defense as well. The opposing player takes his group of Muta -> flies them around 2 bases worth of defenses, past my main that's turreted (doesn't scout it) and goes straight to the back expo that isn't defended.
I call him a hacker. So what its battle.net, 4v4 RT, I thought to myself, who really cares right? How many times have people talked smack and just forgot it a few minutes later? After the game I get a whisper of stuff like 'are you in elevengaming', 'are you on TL?', and of course in my TL profile it has my battle.net account so he knows its me, and he's like 'check your PMs' so I get a warning on TeamLiquid because I called a mod a hacker in a 4v4 RT game and he looked me up on TL and gave me a warning. He said he didn't appreciate being called a hacker.
Mind you at the time, I was honestly no joke top 5 in the world as to sc2ranks.com in terms of points for 4v4 RT. I believe top NA 4v4RT for a few weeks, I did take it very seriously and I felt that he made a hacker like move. Additionally won the game fairly easy as I didn't think there team was very good-which honestly made it seem more like a hacker because his talent seemed too low to match me at the time.
It's rare that I even call people a hacker, but it was a full-cross map move around cannons/turrets and I though it was a legit assumption. Mind you the account name seemed to be a troll name, plus he was with a team of players. This is when the game was still fairly new, there could have been hacks out. I've seen stranger things happen in 4v4 RT with teamers/abusers.
So sure I'm at fault for talking smack to a person that was a TL mod (I didn't know at the time) however I thought it was unfair that I got warned (my first warning) on TL for something that happened on battle.net. Sure I get it. I get mad when I lose, it's frustrating. People can be so annoying when smack talking comes out or you get called something. However really getting a warning for some silly basic noobish-trash talk in a battle.net game? I'm just still surprised by it.
I would like to "criticize" and discuss the TL moderation in this situation.
I have always been respectful of the threads on this place mods or not and always try to give good feedback whether I'm agreeing/disagreeing.
The account name was "ESPORTS" and that is the mod known as HotBid.
Whatever happened to ManaBlue? He helped with teaching some of the basic fundamentals of Brood War to me and let me obs in his games a lot. He was fun to hang around.
I don't see anything wrong with what hotbid did. While lots of people may call people hackers and bm on bnet, that doesn't mean that behaving in such a manner is appropriate. If you happen to hit a TLmod on bnet then you should expect to be warned. Hell, I've permed someone for bm/harassing me during the beta. Moral of the story? Dont be a dick online. You can still confront a mod, but remember to do it in an appropriate way - calling him a hacker isn't appropriate. If you still have an issue take it up with hotbid directly.
I don't see anything wrong with what hotbid did. While lots of people may call people hackers and bm on bnet, that doesn't mean that behaving in such a manner is appropriate. If you happen to hit a TLmod on bnet then you should expect to be warned. Hell, I've permed someone for bm/harassing me during the beta. Moral of the story? Dont be a dick online. You can still confront a mod, but remember to do it in an appropriate way - calling him a hacker isn't appropriate. If you still have an issue take it up with hotbid directly.
I think the issue Nizzy has is that there was no way to tell that he was playing Hot_Bid, so he couldn't know to give proper deference. I don't think it's conpletely reasonable to expect TL users to always be GM all the time, in case they run into a staff member on Battle.net; it'd be nice, but unrealistic.
I don't see anything wrong with what hotbid did. While lots of people may call people hackers and bm on bnet, that doesn't mean that behaving in such a manner is appropriate. If you happen to hit a TLmod on bnet then you should expect to be warned. Hell, I've permed someone for bm/harassing me during the beta. Moral of the story? Dont be a dick online. You can still confront a mod, but remember to do it in an appropriate way - calling him a hacker isn't appropriate. If you still have an issue take it up with hotbid directly.
Thanks for the response.
Honestly I'm not even disagreeing with you but there's a few ways to look at the situation. Like I explained there was some logical though (multiple things) and gameplay that made him look like a legit hacker. I believe my discussion raised some legit points so it wasn't just 'WTF HACKER BBQ' right?
I think there was a huge line from 'bming/harassing someone' to what I did. I didn't even message him after the game he messaged me. Surely I upset him accusing him of hacking/winning the game. Nobody likes to lose/get trash talked. I surely don't.
I honestly didn't even think it was BM. I mean what really is BM anymore? It can get so ridiculous but for the shake of discussion lets not go that root/talk about what is/isn't. Is me calling someone a hacker 1 time in a game warranty of getting a warn on TL? And... don't get me wrong, I love being part of the community here I really do. However personally, just personally I think that's mod abuse. I don't know with how much shit you guys have to put up with on a daily basis. (I surely wouldn't want to be a mod here) so props. However I'm just still surprised that TL mods are expending their powers onto battle.
Now I want to throw something out here as well. Surely if someone like Deezer for all the stuff he does negative to the community would be so good mannered on TL, but the way he is on battle.net is just so bad that I think he should warranty a perma ban. I think all the community would agree. However I did not really harass a TL mod. First I didn't even know he was a MOD. He gave me a warning before I even had the CHANCE to apologize to him on battle.net. I believe I did after anyways.
""You can still confront a mod, but remember to do it in an appropriate way - calling him a hacker isn't appropriate.""
But once again, I had no idea it was one. The account name "ESPORTS" plus the teamers he was with (if you play 4v4rt you can tell almost instantly if they are teamers/RTers its easy) Looked highly suspicious/troll type team.
Either way like I said, I agree with your comments I was just surprised. However to think all TL members are going to always be 100% gm on battle.net lol... well that's just silly to think dude. Hasn't IdrA bad mannered direct team liquid players in games and bad mannered them? I believe to my knowledge he's only been banned for TL posts on TL.
It's over now so whatever. If he was just like, 'yeah you pissed me off kid, so i warned you deal with it' I'd honestly understand. It's pretty much what happened, however no matter how you look at it, from a players perspective from 8 years in the wc3 community, 1 in sc2, it's mod abuse. But once again, sure, I was BM so I'm not really even complaining too much.
Thanks for the discussion Plexa, take care.
-Nizzy
On September 16 2011 10:09 Aeres wrote: I think the issue Nizzy has is that there was no way to tell that he was playing Hot_Bid, so he couldn't know to give proper deference. I don't think it's conpletely reasonable to expect TL users to always be GM all the time, in case they run into a staff member on Battle.net; it'd be nice, but unrealistic.
Yeah it's just going to happen from time to time. Even have the pros rage on ladder, the game is frustrating. I'm at the point now where I understand when peeps get mad.
I don't see anything wrong with what hotbid did. While lots of people may call people hackers and bm on bnet, that doesn't mean that behaving in such a manner is appropriate. If you happen to hit a TLmod on bnet then you should expect to be warned. Hell, I've permed someone for bm/harassing me during the beta. Moral of the story? Dont be a dick online. You can still confront a mod, but remember to do it in an appropriate way - calling him a hacker isn't appropriate. If you still have an issue take it up with hotbid directly.
I think the issue Nizzy has is that there was no way to tell that he was playing Hot_Bid, so he couldn't know to give proper deference. I don't think it's conpletely reasonable to expect TL users to always be GM all the time, in case they run into a staff member on Battle.net; it'd be nice, but unrealistic.
Honestly, I think on bnet everybody should be equal.
If someone does something that would deserve a ban from the community anyway, then I'm fine with it (like hacking, disconnecting, being a complete jerk or whatever).
But now, seriously, if someone makes a blog and ask some other member to be banned because this other member has accused him of hacking, everybody will laugh at him. The problem is that it was someone who had the power of taking revenge, and that's not justice or moderation, but retaliation. And retaliation is an abuse.
That being said, mods do whatever they want, it really is their website.
I used to be scared of the TL staff, but then I see Plexa and Beyonder, among others, who pop into threads (LR threads come into mind), give a hilarious one-liner, and then disappear for a while
At this point, I realise that they're just awesome
I don't see anything wrong with what hotbid did. While lots of people may call people hackers and bm on bnet, that doesn't mean that behaving in such a manner is appropriate. If you happen to hit a TLmod on bnet then you should expect to be warned. Hell, I've permed someone for bm/harassing me during the beta. Moral of the story? Dont be a dick online. You can still confront a mod, but remember to do it in an appropriate way - calling him a hacker isn't appropriate. If you still have an issue take it up with hotbid directly.
This is something (and probably the only thing) I've always strongly disagreed with on TeamLiquid. It's fine to run a website and forum the way you want it but having the jurisdiction being expanded beyond the website (especially on battle.net's server) is way too much and provides too much grounds for potential abuse of power. For tournaments sponsored and managed by teamliquid then this would be understandable, but for public games or the public ladder, its not a very good move and leaves a bad taste for everyone else. This kind of enforcement actually encourages me (and possibly others) to keep my battle.net usernames as private information incase I happened to be paired with a TL staff member and I happen to rage if I wind up losing and it costs me more than just losing ladder points. I mean battle.net includes blocking tools to prevent that stuff. I've been accused of numerous things playing Brood War and had a bot constantly send a message every 30 seconds and I just simply typed /ignore or /dnd and that was the end of that.
I gotta say, we (TL staff teams) get BM'd a fuckton on bnet. People say the most racist, disgusting things because well, we kind of play a 4v4 style that often produces these kind of reactions. So it's safe to say we brush off like 99.9% of this stuff.
I don't have the replay in front of me but if I actually went on TL and warned you, I'm going to assume you said some pretty horribly BM stuff. Like beyond simple hack accusations or "you guys suck" kind of stuff, because we get that all the time. I think the solution here is to stop accusing people of hacking and to stop BMing people on bnet in random 4v4s instead of asking TL mods to identify themselves.
I don't see it as an abuse of power; we've banned people for actions off TL before. I feel it is a matter of degree rather than a matter of policy, as he must've really went beyond simple BM. Again, I don't have the replay, this is just me making assumptions based on the fact that we receive a shitton of BM but rarely if ever go on TL and warn. I wish I had the replay to confirm.
I'm not saying we're going to start taking BM complaints or something from everyone on public Bnet, but maybe it's good you'll think twice about insulting people in random 4v4s? I certainly don't agree with "treat mods with respect and nobody else" kind of thinking.
ohhhh man. the percentage of people i've looked up on TL after a game is easily less than 1%. TL mods have tremendous tolerance for bm (many of us come from USEast), so if something's happened to you because of bnet you were probably being a malicious, mean-spirited little bitch. why not just be kind to everyone, instead of only sucking up to people with power? is that not the definition of self-respect? rofl
But don't people hate your 4v4s because you guys use teamwork/vent/teamspeak to create unbeatable cheese-like builds? I kind of picture almost anybody would just be laughing at the reactions. I mean in 4v4's, it's almost expected to have tons of BM from the opposing team (sliding scale of manner favors 1v1 for gm with each addition of a teammate getting much worse). If you've seen how bad DotA is (which is team vs team) it's just kind of shocking it would got that far. And granted these two games run on Blizzard's platform, it really isn't all that surprising if the public community is a good chunk of that DotA community.
you were probably being a malicious, mean-spirited little bitch
Try to forgive Intrigue for the above quote if you can find the generosity in your little heart—like most male gamers, he doesn't understand that gendered insults are wrong and off-putting to women. Since E-Sports is even more male-dominated than Magic: The Gathering, he's probably never been encouraged to censor himself in that way.
you were probably being a malicious, mean-spirited little bitch
Try to forgive Intrigue for the above quote if you can find the generosity in your little heart—like most male gamers, he doesn't understand that gendered insults are wrong and off-putting to women. Since E-Sports is even more male-dominated than Magic: The Gathering, he's probably never been encouraged to censor himself in that way.
EPT
) but managed to requalify for Shinhan 2005 OSL so I stuck around on TL for a while, and got addicted in the process. ![[image loading]](http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/8179/draft1pn8.gif)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Hot_Bid/windowcover.jpg)
Plexa
All hail and revere the cult of 
Made it this far without a warning through being terrified of every post I write and deleting them more than I post them, so it seems helpful.
and a couple others were used a lot more. I'm curious, what lead to the demise of this ever-so-fitting smiley?
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Kennigit/1315172341942.gif)
