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everything in this blog entry will be from the protoss point of view.
First of all, my thought on the MilkiWay dronedrill:
Most people thought about this as a way for Zerg to break out from P or T cannon/bunker rush. But lots of people dont understand how this could also be used offensively in most of Z rush strategy. Let look at the 5 roach rush with speedlings 1 base ZvP for example: The best counter to this is to wall off your front with a Cyber-gate-pylon wall until you have enough sentries to block your ramp. You should get enough sentires out before the roach can snipe your wall with the overlord vision. However, if Z decided to pull, like, 5 of his mining drone, you can drill through the pylon much much faster before the 2nd sentry came out to help vs that cheese which make it almost unstoppable in some sense.
Something like this 5 roach rush or this 7 roach rush will become unstoppable with drone drill support.
Moreover, this mechanic bring in a meta game shift where Zerg can always go hatch first in PvZ and there is no way P can punish it if Zerg played correct/perfectly. It limits the Protoss choices early on which make the play style much more predictable therefore easy to counter. Im not sure if the change in drone attack AI in 1.4 can even buff this further more but if blizzard already fixed the ramp in the past to limit cannon rush instead of getting rid of it, they clearly want it exist in the game.
TLDR: It is broken and should be fix.
2nd of all: some thought about 1.4
PvP: This match up will become unpredictable in 1.4. The entire match up will need to be relearned. With the impossibility of executing a 4 gate to punish greedy play, people now can 14 gate 15 gas or gas first even and still be safe. 1 force field to stop blink/4gate meaning you can tech up 1 base safely and immortal buff simply make blink play with obs much much weaker to pure robo.
Now what does this mean? Most lower league would look at this and say: robo time. The Safeway to play a PvP, safe vs 4 gate vs blink vs DT, what else you want? But High level would look at this and say: PHOENIX time! Thats right, its all about air play now. With 3-4 phoenix, you can completely get map control and scouting information much better-accurate than having an obs. Also the option to harrass people with phoenix make it even better vs anysort of greedy early nexus play. I predict if 1.4 came out, PvP will simply turn back into ZvZ in BW with early game gateway dominance to get a nexus early and mid game mass phoenix. This in some sense create a possibility of 1 gate forge expand in the metagame shift but i think its still too early to predict that. This will simply cause the order of PvP in gas spending become: Phoenix > VR(or robo) > stalkers > phoenix.
As some of you might have met me on ladder or read my thread in strat forum about 1 gate forge phoenix. I have tested out a tons of phoenix play in PvP lately and i gota say it is completely viable. The question now is 'how many phoenix should i make?'. Mothership, carriers? Winning 1 phoenix vs phoenix battle will give you a tremendous advantage since (in case you have noticed) phoenix is the hard counter to phoenix itself (tons of bonus vs light). Will you cut your gas off 1 sentry to get the +1 air early? Will you use your phoenix defensively or offensively? if you play defensive what if the other guy tech switch?
Mark my words, 1.4 will be air PvP.
PvZ:
Early game prism buff is huge, something like sentry drop with blink stalker will simply be unstoppable vs a LingsFestor user. I sense once this style got popular on most maps, people will be forced to make roaches which then make the immortal buff come into place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdBb4fW6_NA
Will this catch on?
Mid game nothing really changed, the fugnal on zealots is slightly weaker but overall its the infested terran that all P was worried about. The energy cost for infested terran simply too cheap compare to their DPS and the fact that burrow forced robo tech make it even harder to catch the infestors after battle. Your army has no mobility at all if you really want to held off a 2 bases Z timing push into your 3rd with infested terrans and lings. Lets say if you have traded 1 HT for 1 infestors (which never happen), you still cant kill all the lings before they take down your nexus since you army has no gas units in it. Cannon? free expand for zerg...
Lategame, the ultra build time simply gona cause a lot of trouble. You will need to find a hole to squeeze in 2-3 stargates when you saturate your 3rd, getting your 4th. Immortal are not cost efficient enough simply due to the fact that you cant kill all the lings with them. Storm? you on 3 bases, where you get all those gas? not even counting the broodlord switch afterward. Again, the problem come out to zerg anti air option late game: infested terran. They are simply too cost efficient and should be nerfed.
PvT:
sentry change will be huge, with 1/1/1 out of the table, everything will be back to normal again. I can see how nexus first could totally viable with the barrack build time increase. Otherwise 1 base robo still totally viable since the 'immortal timing' will be much stronger vs 1 rax expand from T.
Not sure if raven seeker missile can become a viable harassment but auto turret already last long enough to cause havoc in this match up. The hellion nerf simply will make mech play slighty weaker but its their HP that P care about, not the damage they dealt. Hellions are extremely hard to kill off due to their high HP and speed. As you can see in MLG, a lots of Protoss start trying to use phoenix plays to counter hellions but it simply impossible. 100 mineral units can force 150min 100 gas units? Regardless, hellions are not broken in term of balance wise but more about bad design. I could foresee an HP/build time nerf on it in the recent future but for now its fine the way it is.
 
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lol metagame!
I don't think 1/1/1 is off the table any more than 4gate is :S
These changes weaken them but do not make them obsolete imo (you can't rely on someone not doing it).
I love the prism buff and will definitely be practicing my prism control in anticipation.
You have a good point about the offensive drill.
How could a protoss use these drill to break a depot on a Terran wall? maybe?
I think the hellion nerf will make mech play much weaker.
My zealots have a better change of closing with the tanks now by a lot.
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Maybe you can explain why you thinnk 1-1-1 wont be viable anymore. I presume it is the change to the guardian shield ( for those who do now know what I mean, the guardian shield will also protect your units from some splash damage in 1.4) .
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How come air became more viable in PvP with version 1.4?
I'm a low-levelled player and I say Robo (as predicted); since that all of a sudden became more viable with a range increase. AFAIK the phoenix hasn't changed at all.
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On September 03 2011 05:48 Tommie wrote:
Maybe you can explain why you thinnk 1-1-1 wont be viable anymore. I presume it is the change to the guardian shield ( for those who do now know what I mean, the guardian shield will also protect your units from some splash damage in 1.4) .
its pretty easy to held off if your immortal can actually reach the tank and it take much more tank shots to kill ur army. You can watch kiwikaki PvT replays in MLG to learn about the detail execution but its basicly involve 1-2 phoenix with tons of immortal, 1-2 sentries, 1-2 stalker and lots of zealots.
On September 03 2011 05:53 IntoTheheart wrote:
How come air became more viable in PvP with version 1.4?
I'm a low-levelled player and I say Robo (as predicted); since that all of a sudden became more viable with a range increase. AFAIK the phoenix hasn't changed at all.
its due to the fact that you can defend your base with a single FF vs 4 gate, blink rush. Also blink rush with obs is so bad vs immortal 6 ranges. This will cause robo become the ultimate solution to every cheese rush early on and phoenix play is a 'hard counter' to robo tech in a sense.
On September 03 2011 05:35 ComaDose wrote:
You have a good point about the offensive drill.
How could a protoss use these drill to break a depot on a Terran wall? maybe?
SCV repair can break it easily, also terran tier 1 (marines) are range unit, unlike Protoss(zealot) having melee
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1-1-1 is by no means off the table.
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I haven't been reading anything in the Milkyway thread, but from what I can see you basically abuse your drone drill to stack up all your drones and then hit with the force of all of them one single time as they are stacked up. Considering theres no limit for control groups in SC2 this is SOO dangerous LOL.
I can imagine a Drone/speedling bust, you just milkyway the shit out of the zealot and the speedlings go lolling their way to victory. I think it's a really smart and clever way to make use of Drones, and unless pro's start abusing it like shit I don't think we'll see a nerf on it, though who knows, the Archon toilet was nerfed (Kiwi's skills were too much to handle). Haha, I can totally see a player with good micro complete boss dominate a toss with 14 drone rush on a small map (IdrA used to do 14 drones on Steppes, he won a lot of games somehow) picking off workers one by one by one.
So yeah, Milky drill is really cool, that's just my thoughts on it, and it shows how theres still SO much in terms of game mechanics and UI we still haven't figured out. If you think about it, nobody really knew how to micro mutas properly until long after SC1 came out so it makes sense.
Come to think of it, can't every race technically do the milkyway worker trick? Or is it a drone specific? It seems so, considering i've seen no one talk about protoss or terran possibilities with this.
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I was actually expecting an infested terran nerf before a fungal nerf.
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Dont worry about drone drills with a roach rush breaking protoss...one FF and all the drones die while the roaches are down the cliff....
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On September 03 2011 06:08 ReketSomething wrote:
Dont worry about drone drills with a roach rush breaking protoss...one FF and all the drones die while the roaches are down the cliff....
you only need 1 hit from the drone, the roach still can hit up the cliff when they have overlord vision.
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I see, so you want air since the vision is smaller, I understand that. 
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why does drone drill mean zerg can start to go hatch first? what about the pylons/cannons behind the mineral line
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Wow NB. Dropping so pro-gamer insight.
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On September 03 2011 09:50 Gator wrote:
why does drone drill mean zerg can start to go hatch first? what about the pylons/cannons behind the mineral line
if you play perfectly you always have your 2nd ovie park at your nature to cover front half of the hatch and 1 drone patrol at the other half. The mineral you lose by thaat drone patrol will be totally paid off by the hatch first.
On September 03 2011 07:21 IntoTheheart wrote:I see, so you want air since the vision is smaller, I understand that.
not sure if you are trying to debate on phoenix vs obs scouting. Phoenix has much better speed and simply can cover the entire map to spot proxy pylon etc while waiting for energy to regen on grav. beam. Obs could be killed easily and dont have enough speed to cover the map.
Also phoenix means that the enemy wont have watch tower control.
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I'm aware marines have larger ranger than zealots.
Can you fathom a offensive strategy stacking workers other than drones breaking terran/protoss walls?
How does it feel to get to +1 air attack right after warp gate?
You say air counter robo because immortals can't shoot up yes?
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On July 20 2011 13:17 Chill wrote:
FUCK
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The posts before me are really long and I am already half asleep so forgive me if this has already been said.
Stalker pressure can really hurt a Zerg player that goes hatch first and is scouted early, if Zerg ALWAYS went Hatch first the Protoss has plenty of weapons in there arsenal that could force that strategy to become less common. FTR I do not mean blink OR 4gate, just a straight up 2 gate stalker pressure (similar to the 3 stalker build in PvP). Without speedlings Stalkers are kings of the battlefield in the early game off creep.
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On September 03 2011 14:44 Gofarman wrote:
The posts before me are really long and I am already half asleep so forgive me if this has already been said.
Stalker pressure can really hurt a Zerg player that goes hatch first and is scouted early, if Zerg ALWAYS went Hatch first the Protoss has plenty of weapons in there arsenal that could force that strategy to become less common. FTR I do not mean blink OR 4gate, just a straight up 2 gate stalker pressure (similar to the 3 stalker build in PvP). Without speedlings Stalkers are kings of the battlefield in the early game off creep.
the problem is that good zerg already stop falling to that pressure. In GSL you can see they scale up the gas timing which make speed come much faster. Keeping drone in main base until your queen pop help a lots too. Or even follow destiny style making a spine preemptively in your main and move it to nature also work. Immediately after the stalker retreat, they can take a quick 3rd and drone up easily.
On the other hand on map such as taldarim or shakuras where you can forge FE, the match up become a small coin flip with forge first > 6 pool > nexus first > hatch first > forge first. Normally we always have the option to cannon rush zerg once forge finish but now its simply not the case. Why dont we just put down a nexus and play macro u ask? because Z can simply take a fast or macro hatch and drone up like a mad man with out being pressure from a forge first build.
On September 03 2011 12:34 ComaDose wrote:
I'm aware marines have larger ranger than zealots.
Can you fathom a offensive strategy stacking workers other than drones breaking terran/protoss walls?
How does it feel to get to +1 air attack right after warp gate?
You say air counter robo because immortals can't shoot up yes?
no
+1 air make your ground army much zealot/cannon heavy early on and indicate that you wont stop around 4-5 phoenixes. It would be a great move to counter the enemy going phoenix himself but overall in 1.3 meta game the build will lose to a blink timing attack with good micro.
yes, none of the robo tech unit can attack air units.
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On September 03 2011 05:28 NB wrote:
sentry change will be huge, with 1/1/1 out of the table, everything will be back to normal again. I can see how nexus first could totally viable with the barrack build time increase. Otherwise 1 base robo still totally viable since the 'immortal timing' will be much stronger vs 1 rax expand from T.
How exactly were sentries changed? I can't see anything about them on the patch notes.
EDIT: nvm I think you mean the guardian shield change.
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I don't play or follow SC2, but I enjoy reading insightful write-ups like this. Thanks!
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People don't avoid going hatch first because they're afraid of being walled. They avoid going hatch first because of all the other annoying stuff Toss can do it.
Yes, cannons is one...
But don't forget stalker pressure, zealot+cannon all-ins, and all the other aggressive one base plays that are lses good but still scary to deal with for Zergs who hatch first.
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People just need to adapt to drone drills like they did in BW. "TLDR: It is broken and should be fix." is just a retarded thing to say at this point. Actually that's where I stopped reading. Bad post 1 star.
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Id rather just leave the game instead of pulling all my workers to do that stupid drone drill
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50107 Posts
OP you worry too much,it takes skill to do an offensive drone drill,Even more skill to do it to a pro.
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On September 04 2011 01:29 BLinD-RawR wrote:
OP you worry too much,it takes skill to do an offensive drone drill,Even more skill to do it to a pro.
Can't tell if you're trolling or not...
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50107 Posts
On September 04 2011 01:38 laLAlA[uC] wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2011 01:29 BLinD-RawR wrote:
OP you worry too much,it takes skill to do an offensive drone drill,Even more skill to do it to a pro. Can't tell if you're trolling or not...
I'm not,its a huge gamble to do pull a drone drill chances are you won't be successful most of the time.
I was being serious but I said it like a troll.
the only person I can count on to pull it off is July.
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On September 04 2011 01:42 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2011 01:38 laLAlA[uC] wrote:On September 04 2011 01:29 BLinD-RawR wrote:
OP you worry too much,it takes skill to do an offensive drone drill,Even more skill to do it to a pro. Can't tell if you're trolling or not... I'm not,its a huge gamble to do pull a drone drill chances are you won't be successful most of the time. I was being serious but I said it like a troll. the only person I can count on to pull it off is July.
Haha.. The game on Troy?
But then again, what you're suggesting is that a cheese is taking 'skill to do'. I mean, some do take skill to a certain point like Leta's 2 port, but I mean a cheese is still a cheese is it not? I mean, what's more difficult. Playing a full macro game or just doing some all-in and hoping you win.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50107 Posts
its an advanced cheese is what I'm trying to say,I'd rather 6 pool.
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i mean vortex was in the same category right? no one get a mothership ever and there is a huge risk into using it. but shit still happens and people still lose and blizzard still patch.
Imagine moon vs HuK in dream hack on taldarim. Moon 6 pools and huk defend it with a cutting probe wall off, what if you can drone drill it while attacking with the 6 zerglings? (notice how drone do stack over lings while mining). The wall could have gone down much faster and screw shit over.
@MrBitter: i dont know. Considering a map such as taldarim, P always forge first and Z can drone scout everything with 1 drone (yeah every Z drone scout on that map). I see no way to put pressure on Z considering i have to put 150 mineral on cannon sooner or later. I really dont see Z could be at risk if they scout properly with their drone scout. May be it just that i dont know enough cheese to make things happen but undoubtedly the drone drill make hatch first much more viable than what it was before. As soon as you dont see a nexus at P nature around 16 food (no forge) or 18 food (forge), you should expect a cannon rush.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://images.wikia.com/starcraft/images/3/3d/Phoenix_SC2_Rend1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://images.wikia.com/starcraft/images/c/c7/InfestedTerran_SC2_DevRend1.jpg)
