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How many times have I heard Day9 utter something along those lines? Sure there are isolated incidents of awesomeness that stand out amidst a muck of spiteful behavior, but I can't help to think he's trying to promote an image that isn't even (t)here.
I'm talking about the abundance of BM that exists in our small, expanding, community. I get on ladder and am on the receiving end of all sorts of venting. Ok, so perhaps people get frustrated in game, especially at a high masters level of play where people take the game fairly seriously. But even on the forums I cannot escape the patronizing war of words.
It seems to be less abundant at the highest levels of play, but it's still there. Why do the cast of State of the Game have to have their every word scrutinized? They wonder the same thing. And yet they co-host with Idra, who doesn't refrain from laughing when talking about Drewbie going to Korea?
Not everyone can be Sheth. But then I realize that Day9 is on to something. It starts at the top. If those with the highest levels of exposure can promote the idea of being gracious and well-mannered, maybe it can trickle down.
 
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teamliquid is manner.
90% of players on ladder are not bad manner at least?
I think time will leave us with something better.
The heart is there.
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Because if you've ever played Dota, LoL, counterstrike, HoN, Halo, Quake, Street Fighter, virtually every other competitive game in existence you would see why the Starcraft community is one of the most mild mannered and welcoming internet communities in the world.
I'm not saying BM doesn't exist, but it's nowhere near the level of 13-year-old-4chan-meme retardedness that it is in other games.
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Compared to nearly every other community out there SC2 community is amazingly good.
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I dunno about the SC2 community but the BW one was pretty damn good. I played on the USEast server (considered to be the most BM) and it wasn't really that bad in my experience. DotA though....My God that game was fucking horrible for BM, especially when you were a new player and didn't know how to play well. When people start compiling ban lists for their games you know something is wrong.
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On August 19 2011 04:42 moose162 wrote:
How many times have I heard Day9 utter something along those lines? Sure there are isolated incidents of awesomeness that stand out amidst a muck of spiteful behavior, but I can't help to think he's trying to promote an image that isn't even (t)here.
I'm talking about the abundance of BM that exists in our small, expanding, community. I get on ladder and am on the receiving end of all sorts of venting. Ok, so perhaps people get frustrated in game, especially at a high masters level of play where people take the game fairly seriously. But even on the forums I cannot escape the patronizing war of words.
It seems to be less abundant at the highest levels of play, but it's still there. Why do the cast of State of the Game have to have their every word scrutinized? They wonder the same thing. And yet they co-host with Idra, who doesn't refrain from laughing when talking about Drewbie going to Korea?
Not everyone can be Sheth. But then I realize that Day9 is on to something. It starts at the top. If those with the highest levels of exposure can promote the idea of being gracious and well-mannered, maybe it can trickle down.
when you have 500000 people it's hard to not have a bunch of BM people. you're too optimistic if you want everyone to be perfectly mannered.
it's like having a classroom of 30 students, theres always going to be a jokester/rebel. the closest you can get to perfectly manner is the koreans but they still bm
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Aren't you just scrutinizing the words of a State of the Game cast member in this post while condemning the very action. But it's to shit on the community so that's different i guess
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I wouldn't even worry about the random people I meet on ladder. I don't even think most of them really constitute as the SC2 "community". I think there's more to it than just playing the game, or being some guy who comes onto the forum and gets banned before he reaches 100 posts. The community is formed by people who actually care about and love the game, and from my experience, most of them are nice, mannered guys.
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Was her referring to the SC2 community overall or more so the TL community?
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These threads or blogs about the utopian internet are getting tiresome.... In the end what does it really matter, you are either entertained by it or you have some real growing up to do.
The internet is not a perfect world, just because you post on a board of generally well mannered people does not mean that they all are or that others will be. Zeal with....
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This community is totally awesome. Sure a few players are bmbags. Or in tournaments or high profile/big things you will see bm stuff. People are passionate it's just the nature of competition I feel...some people are just better at controlling emotions than others.
Now there is some stuff I totally don't understand with this community. for example declaring a jihad on someone when they steal a stupid chair at a live event...
or everyone going apeshit when a player simply changes teams...O_o;
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Why do you people want the SC2 community to be a frigid, boring old grandma?
Come on. Keep your mind open and stop getting hurt by "bad language". It's just sad when people let the vocal minority get to them even though they're not losing anything.
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Calgary25986 Posts
The ladder isn't exactly reflective of the community. The TL community is amazing and the IRL TL community is 100x more amazing.
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you might be referring to a vocal minority of people who bm and criticize endlessly. The SC2 crowd actually is really nice. I think it was in the SC2 launch party on July 26 2010 that day9 hosted where something went wrong, and several members of the crowd offered to provide their laptops to help, when most people would say, "I paid money for this? F*** YOU DAY 9 DONT RIP ME OFF"
Since this is the internet though, I think GM isn't necessarily Sheth-like "GG WP nicely done =) ♥♥♥" when you lose. If someone acknowledges when they lose and gg out, that's manner enough for me.
What really disappoints me is the "coolness" some people see in being bm. Idra should not be admired for being bad mannered sometimes when he loses. He could be respected for being honest about balance issues, but there's so many kids who only see the rage aspect of that and copy him.
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/pride
Could we even venture to state that the reason the SC2 community has this tradition of being more civilized and well-mannered is, well, because of TL and the established BW eSports foundation?
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So this is how things go in real life most of the time. We remember the very small minority of people who are douchebags. They stand out, the make noise, they are overall jack asses, but in doing so, we tend not to remember the 98% of the time in life that people are nice and good. It is the same thing here. Most everyone is nice and just loves the game and the community, but we tend to remember the people who BM and call each other names.
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most irl gaming communities are great.
except for smash.
ugh. smash.
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it's probably from the live events that day9 goes to, i imagine those have a lot of nice folk who are actually somewhat socially adept.
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On August 19 2011 05:04 floor exercise wrote:
Aren't you just scrutinizing the words of a State of the Game cast member in this post while condemning the very action. But it's to shit on the community so that's different i guess
I'm not so much criticizing as musing. The hosts often seem upset with unwarranted scrutiny, but I don't think they should be surprised when they have someone of Idra's controversial nature co-hosting.
On August 19 2011 05:26 FabledIntegral wrote:
Was her referring to the SC2 community overall or more so the TL community?
None in particular. A combination of the two I suppose.
On August 19 2011 05:28 Swwww wrote:
These threads or blogs about the utopian internet are getting tiresome.... In the end what does it really matter, you are either entertained by it or you have some real growing up to do.
The internet is not a perfect world, just because you post on a board of generally well mannered people does not mean that they all are or that others will be. Zeal with....
It doesn't make a dent in my life one way or another. I'm just noting the inherent obstacle in promoting SC2 or E-Sports in general. That is, the fact that it's core is populated by internet identities. With internet identities comes volatility and a tendency for people to devolve into having prepubescent tendencies.
On August 19 2011 05:29 LuckyFool wrote:
Now there is some stuff I totally don't understand with this community. for example declaring a jihad on someone when they steal a stupid chair at a live event...
TBH, I thought that was completely warranted. Not the action, but they manner in which it was handled.
On August 19 2011 05:31 Djzapz wrote:
Why do you people want the SC2 community to be a frigid, boring old grandma?
Come on. Keep your mind open and stop getting hurt by "bad language". It's just sad when people let the vocal minority get to them even though they're not losing anything.
One of the points I'm pressing is that it's not the minority. At levels other than the very top, the veil of internet anonymity is in play and emboldens a significant percentage of the community to say and do obnoxious things.
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I think it depends on where you're looking. At the bottom of pretty much every community are the trolls and genuinely BM individuals. SC2 has them. At the top though, are the people who devote time and effort into building something to share with the community. SC2 has more of these than just about any gaming community I've seen. Casters, coaches, liquipedia contributors, livereporters, guys like Artosis who will give us up to the minute twitter updates on untelevised but awesome matches. Pretty much everyone who's ever organized a tournament. There are a lot of nice people giving back to the SC2 community, and I'm glad Sean continues to recognize them.
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I've seen quite a few threads or blogs that basically contain about 30 people bashing on the OP, or viciously attacking a post they don't agree with. There are some nice people and some mean people, just like in any community. I guess in comparison TL is better than other communities, but I wouldn't say it's exactly nice... I've heard the BW section is much better though.
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I think Chill said it the best, the IRL community is what is amazing. If you have ever been to a Starcraft event, or tournament you will see the amount of really cool people. That is probably what Day[9] is talking about as well. The internet is the always going to be that place where people have no fear of what they say.
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Yeah, most of the time "community" refers to Live events and/or TL. The community at large isn't amazing, but it's not the worst either. Try playing something like Dota/HoN/XboxLive/WoW and you'll see that we have it pretty good.
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On August 19 2011 06:11 Cofo wrote:
Yeah, most of the time "community" refers to Live events and/or TL. The community at large isn't amazing, but it's not the worst either. Try playing something like Dota/HoN/XboxLive/WoW and you'll see that we have it pretty good.
wc3 in general. it wasn't even just DotA lol. But yeah I don't mind this community half as much as the ones that used to be on wcr =/
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SC community is definitely nowhere near as unpleasant and venomous as LoL or some of the other communities I've seen in gaming.
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On August 19 2011 04:46 ComaDose wrote:
teamliquid is manner.
90% of players on ladder are not bad manner at least?
I think time will leave us with something better.
The heart is there. Neither of those things are true...
I dont care if the community is respectful or not, but the OP is obviously correct in that the whole community is overwhelmingly NOT.
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If you stay out of the General forum, that makes a very huge difference. You'll notice that most newer posters hang out there and a lot of vets post a lot less there now.
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I don't find that many BM people, I've probably had less than 10 people BM me ever. People exaggerate it and eventually you begin to look for it. And don't say quitting without GGing is BM, it's just not as polite. Like many people above me have already said, go play DotA for the first time and you'll see how good this community is.
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I guess you've never played FPS games then.
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Just look at ThorZain. I'm always amazed at his good manners. Unlike some other people, when he says gg wp congratulations, I believe he really means it. White-Ra too. It always feels warm around my heart when I see how respectful and well behaved they are.
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Just go play any other game, you will quickly notice that TL is alot more awesome than any other mas played games.
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United States5162 Posts
On August 19 2011 05:58 moose162 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 05:28 Swwww wrote:
These threads or blogs about the utopian internet are getting tiresome.... In the end what does it really matter, you are either entertained by it or you have some real growing up to do.
The internet is not a perfect world, just because you post on a board of generally well mannered people does not mean that they all are or that others will be. Zeal with.... It doesn't make a dent in my life one way or another. I'm just noting the inherent obstacle in promoting SC2 or E-Sports in general. That is, the fact that it's core is populated by internet identities. With internet identities comes volatility and a tendency for people to devolve into having prepubescent tendencies.
I don't know about you, but when I go watch a sporting event, there's a ton of BM assholes.
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day9 comes across as such a genuinely nice guy who has been through it all and just loves starcraft that it takes a special kind of jerk (combat ez etc) to be a dick to him
he also doesnt wade into pointless internet debates which only serve to make people hate you, and never result in more fans.
so i can see why day9 thinks everyone is just super
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Although it is considerably worse than it was before SC2 this is still one of the most mature gaming communities I have ever been a part of. I can only think of the Dofus community as being nicer, and that game had a really tiny community.
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Its easy to forget that these words and posts aren't just letters on a screen, but are actually thoughts and opinions of real people. I'm reminded of when Blizzard said they were going to force their WoW forum users to display the poster's real name, and how everyone got outraged that their identities would be compromised. Its a lot harder to be mean spirited when you remember that the person you're dealing with is also another human being. That's why live community events are better; you have to interact with other people face to face.
Its also hard to be genuinely funny, but sadly that doesn't stop most people from trying to come up with the wittiest response.
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United States5162 Posts
On August 19 2011 07:44 Boodini wrote:
Its easy to forget that these words and posts aren't just letters on a screen, but are actually thoughts and opinions of real people. I'm reminded of when Blizzard said they were going to force their WoW forum users to display the poster's real name, and how everyone got outraged that their identities would be compromised. Its a lot harder to be mean spirited when you remember that the person you're dealing with is also another human being. That's why live community events are better; you have to interact with other people face to face.
Its also hard to be genuinely funny, but sadly that doesn't stop most people from trying to come up with the wittiest response.
I don't know for sure if you're making this statement or not, but the bolded part makes me think that you're arguing that people didn't like the real name idea because then they might feel like they're talking to a real person. Let me assure you this isn't the case. Facebook uses real names(most people do at least) and there's still plenty of assholes and arguing. People didn't want real names on Blizzard forums because of the potential for real life harassment and safety issues.
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You should have seen the IEM LR thread
80% of the posts were shitting on Huk and EG
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On August 19 2011 05:03 shawster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 04:42 moose162 wrote:
How many times have I heard Day9 utter something along those lines? Sure there are isolated incidents of awesomeness that stand out amidst a muck of spiteful behavior, but I can't help to think he's trying to promote an image that isn't even (t)here.
I'm talking about the abundance of BM that exists in our small, expanding, community. I get on ladder and am on the receiving end of all sorts of venting. Ok, so perhaps people get frustrated in game, especially at a high masters level of play where people take the game fairly seriously. But even on the forums I cannot escape the patronizing war of words.
It seems to be less abundant at the highest levels of play, but it's still there. Why do the cast of State of the Game have to have their every word scrutinized? They wonder the same thing. And yet they co-host with Idra, who doesn't refrain from laughing when talking about Drewbie going to Korea?
Not everyone can be Sheth. But then I realize that Day9 is on to something. It starts at the top. If those with the highest levels of exposure can promote the idea of being gracious and well-mannered, maybe it can trickle down.
the closest you can get to perfectly manner is the koreans but they still bm
Whaaa, Koreans on ladder are bm as fuck, at least as much as anyone else. At the pro level this is true
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This community is really good. Compared to most communites that i've been to, this one by far is the best. People practicing with one another to get better, discussing game mechanics. For the most part, on TL, people are looking to make each other better. I can say the same thing about the street fighter community too. They have a lot of hype, but for the most part they respect each other as players. Good or bad. Both communities have their bad mannered players however. On the grand scheme of things Starcraft has one of the best communities I've ever been apart of. I used to play a lot of DoTA and trashtalking was pretty much apart of the game. Nobody had ANY respect for the other as a player for the most part (not saying that about the community as a whole). Spend a bit on Xbox Live or PSN if you have the chance...Your ears will bleed due to the amount of BM and trolling in general. It's terrible sometimes.
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To me "this community" means teamliquid. And we are mostly filled with nice and helpful people.
When in a time of serious need post a thread about it and see what happens. You will see what kind of community this is.
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Hyrule19101 Posts
Average ladder game ends:
"You: gg
Them: fag"
In any other video game, the average talk that happens goes
"You: ha i fuckin killed you cause you suck fuckin faggot piece of shit
Them: fuck you i bet you fuck your sister you little dyke" AND SO ON
TL (and even SC2 in general) is nicer than a lot of real life.....
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On August 19 2011 10:24 tofucake wrote:
Average ladder game ends:
"You: gg
Them: fag"
In any other video game, the average talk that happens goes
"You: ha i fuckin killed you cause you suck fuckin faggot piece of shit
Them: fuck you i bet you fuck your sister you little dyke" AND SO ON
TL (and even SC2 in general) is nicer than a lot of real life.....
people call you fag after you are nice to them IRL?
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Canada5565 Posts
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This community is practically tame.
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FuDDx
United States5008 Posts
On August 19 2011 05:33 Chill wrote:
The ladder isn't exactly reflective of the community. The TL community is amazing and the IRL TL community is 100x more amazing.
This
<3 Chill
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It's like how commentators such as Day9 and djwheat have noted: the SC2 community's "bad boys" and "BM" are guys who exit games without typing 2 letters. Meanwhile, world has drug scandals, sex scandals, murder and crime scandals. Take your pick.
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On August 19 2011 05:33 Chill wrote:
The ladder isn't exactly reflective of the community. The TL community is amazing and the IRL TL community is 100x more amazing.
this.
<3 Fuddx
On August 19 2011 10:05 travis wrote:
To me "this community" means teamliquid. And we are mostly filled with nice and helpful people.
When in a time of serious need post a thread about it and see what happens. You will see what kind of community this is.
This is also what this community is.
I know that if I needed anything - money, somewhere to stay, advice, anything, that I could make a post on this forum and that response would be overwhelming.
For me personally, teamliquid has been this way for 10 years. I would imagine for new-comers that the size of the community is now quite large, and for that reason may have a different identity than it does to me.
I really love teamliquid.
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On August 19 2011 10:05 travis wrote:
To me "this community" means teamliquid. And we are mostly filled with nice and helpful people.
When in a time of serious need post a thread about it and see what happens. You will see what kind of community this is.
So true. I actually wish I was more social on the forums so I could get to know everyone better. Any time I need an answer about literally anything I come to Team Liquid and I don't think there has ever been a time where I haven't left with the knowledge I sought. Even my roommate who doesn't even play Starcraft comes to TL to find answers on things.
Nowhere else have I seen such a generous community that would go so far out of their way to sometimes even write an hour long post just to help someone with a simple problem. Sure there are tons of BM and idiots, but those people get put in their place very quickly due to great mods and admins.
Thanks for being so awesome Team Liquid.
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On August 19 2011 04:51 Hakker wrote:
Because if you've ever played Dota, LoL, counterstrike, HoN, Halo, Quake, Street Fighter, virtually every other competitive game in existence you would see why the Starcraft community is one of the most mild mannered and welcoming internet communities in the world.
I'm not saying BM doesn't exist, but it's nowhere near the level of 13-year-old-4chan-meme retardedness that it is in other games.
You should not shit on the fighting game community like that, Shoryuken may not be Teamliquid but the forums are more than decent, not to mention they are far less moderated, I think a lot of people will agree.
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Compared to other online communities Starcraft has a great community.
Of course there is still a smattering of idiots, but that's just true of life.
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On August 23 2011 05:31 Kashll wrote:
Compared to other online communities Starcraft has a great community.
Exactly, if you have ever played games like HoN or LoL where 99% of the community consists of little lolkids that can only flame all day then you know how bad a community can be. When I started playing SC II I was very surprisied about how friendly and mature most of the players were, ingame and on TL. Of course there are exceptions but I think we can be happy that we have the greatest community out of every game in the world.
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On August 19 2011 11:50 Xxio wrote:
Need thicker skin.
Yup, in real life this community isn't too bad.
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EPT
