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Hi "everyone". This is the first, and maybe only post on this blog(who knows). And first off, I just want to mention that english is not my first language. Second, no I'm no expert, but I do have major experience from RTS-games tracing back to '98 when I discovered Age of Empires. After that I've played more RTS-games than should be healthy, and mainly StarCraft: Brood War and now later on StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty.
While I've had many thought about balancing issues and so on, it have never come to fruition until now.
What happened: A friend of mine asked me today if I wanted to help him practise his Terran vs Zerg so I agreed, even tho I've just taken up 1on1 on a more serious level compared to him I thought sure, I can always try to help, and we played a few games, when what will be the outcome of this blogpost hit me. Let's get down to business.
Terran have their Orbital Command for MULE'ing, scanning and in the extreme cases dropping extra supply-depots. While the terrans should always use these features, mainly the MULE's to get economical advantages, they do not suffer greatly from not using it. It could even profit them to have energy saved up by mistake in case they need the scan for detection or really do need to get extra supplies avaliable really fast.
The Protoss' have their Chrono Boost. A very nice ability to boost the production of units and tech. A vital component early on to get probes out. Later on, while it's good to always have it spent, it tends to stack up(especially when you get 2+ nexus'). And it's a nice bonus when you need to tech-switch fast or get a few extra units out quickly.
And the Zerg, they're left with the Queen, while, I admit, the most potent of the three - it's also the downfall of many zergs. The queen's role is to add additional larvae on the hatchery, spreading creep and in the odd case to act as healer. Of these abilites, larvae is the most important, but not by much, since the creep-spread is really essential. Without creep many units of the Swarm lack the speed needed to surround and destroy their foes. A zerg without creep-spread is a zerg who will fall sooner or later. And as mentioned, the larvae, is not only essential, it's lifesupportesque. If you skip infusing additinoal larvae you will have no macro abilities. So if you don't use your queens energy, what good can you do with it?
MAYBE you can get a transfusion off that can help you, but if you use it for creep-spread, you're not doing your job in the first place, and if you do it to infuse larvae you'll never get to use the extra energy you've got stacked up.
In my opinion, the queen's role in the zerg army, is either misplaced, or too important. If I get dropped, and my queen gets picked off? I'm without macro, I can't get additional creep. I have to build a new queen. Sure, if you kill a Orbital Command, you have to rebuild it all aswell, but a queen is a tiny bit more fragile. It's way too easy to hit and run a queen, for the damage suffered to the zerg beeing left without this core-unit.
I won't deny the queen is a potent unit, but either it's usage is compared wrongly to the Orbital Command and Chrono Boost to which it really can't be compared, or the abilites are placed togheter in a too essential piece of the swarm.
Without the queen, the zerg is not only crippled and left to die, it's crippled, blinded and without capabilities to do anything about what just happened.
So how to fix this? I won't say I have an answer, because I don't, but something has to be done, in my mind. This is a big part of why a lot of zerg-players are complaining about their race, without even knowing it, if you ask me. I'm surprised no-one has brought this to attention earlier.
The Queen is the unit that make the Zerg-race hold, but it is also the unit that make it break, in my oppinion.
  
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
I agree with Dalguno. If your problem is choosing between tumors/xfuse and larvae injects, the solution is to have 3-4 queens on 2 bases, so you can do everything 
Also, these queens will let you have queens ready for more bases, and help as AA and defense.
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I know that making more Queens would seem to solve part of the problem, but it also only creates more problems.
If you start to make a lot of queens early on, then it becomes a money-sink. A queen equals six lings or two roaches or half an expansion, and also eats into your supply limit.
The core thing about this is, however, not that I can't make more queens to handle whatever obstacle only haveing 1 queen would cause, it is that the queen is too vulnerable and exposed compared to an OC or a Nexus.
So I don't see making more queens as a solution, but maybe as a bad cop-out sort of deal. Sure, you solve one problem, but you're not really handeling the problem of it.
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You have a point, but that is what makes the game diverse. Each race has a unique thing. And it isn't that game ending, A Queen build time is about the same as the larva inject, so you'll be missing one inject at worst. If you inject right before the Queen death, then you just lose 150 minerals...not a problem since Zerg float so many minerals. It seems that you're making this a bigger problem than it is. And if you're opponent is playing a "kill your Queen" strategy, just spread Overlords to detect drops and when you see a drop, queue up a Queen.
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I think you would be hard pressed to find a game where someone lost solely because they made 4 queens instead of 2, barring some kind of stupid close position early all-in.
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The queen is the most versatile of all the other macro abilities of the other races. Creep spread, transfuse, larvae inject, can attack both air and ground.
I get 4 queens early game. Hellions? Wall of your ramp. Banshees? See ya. 4 gate? 4 spines+Transfuse. Good unit imo.
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I don't necessarily disagree with any of the first few posts. More Queen are necessary in many cases.
As for the OP I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. What you say is true, but that's part of the game. Anecdotes and tit for tat is not a viable method for game balancing. It's just an interesting situation in game-theory that puts the responsibility on the Zerg to protect and maximize the use of their queens... If you scout the drop, know you won't be able to stop it, micro your queen away. Equilibrium exists somewhere, or the game is indeed imbalanced, but that isn't the case and you haven't illustrated that it is. It's really not much different than anything else in the game considering each race is indeed fairly unique.
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United States14123 Posts
I had a really vugar joke that was way to NFSW to post out of fear of getting hit by the banhammer
Great blog I totaly agree with it but I think thats what makes the race so special. Queens are the strongest macro mechanic there is. Zergs never ment to be a solid race but a fragile one I think.
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On July 19 2011 04:17 Whole wrote:
You have a point, but that is what makes the game diverse. Each race has a unique thing. And it isn't that game ending, A Queen build time is about the same as the larva inject, so you'll be missing one inject at worst. If you inject right before the Queen death, then you just lose 150 minerals...not a problem since Zerg float so many minerals. It seems that you're making this a bigger problem than it is. And if you're opponent is playing a "kill your Queen" strategy, just spread Overlords to detect drops and when you see a drop, queue up a Queen.
This is a big point I think a lot of people who play this game seem to forget. People want the same thing other races have
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My feeling is that zerg is the most reliant on their macro mechanics, meaning whether they can constantly hit injects plays a larger role in winning than a terran's ability to manage mules well. You get a huge payoff for consistently injecting and are punished heavily for not injecting.
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On July 19 2011 04:20 Dalguno wrote:
The queen is the most versatile of all the other macro abilities of the other races. Creep spread, transfuse, larvae inject, can attack both air and ground.
I get 4 queens early game. Hellions? Wall of your ramp. Banshees? See ya. 4 gate? 4 spines+Transfuse. Good unit imo.
I totally agree, as I say, the Queen is an extremely usefull unit which have many purposes, and is a lot more usefull than an OC or CB.
And I don't mind people arguing against that the queen is too weak, but that's just my feeling from playing Zerg. Maybe it's combined with playing with higher level players, and me not beeing at par with their skill.
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On July 19 2011 04:30 gurrpp wrote:
My feeling is that zerg is the most reliant on their macro mechanics, meaning whether they can constantly hit injects plays a larger role in winning than a terran's ability to manage mules well. You get a huge payoff for consistently injecting and are punished heavily for not injecting.
Yeah, this is the feeling I tried to communicate, you did it in so many less words! Nice job! 
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I think you are underestimating the effects of not muling: fewer marines, fewer turrets, less $$$$ for expos. Also, while a queen is more fragile than an OC it is also 400 mins cheaper to rebuild. (maybe should be able to bunker queens in hatches, that would be pretty badass)
Just some things I wanted to point out.
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While it's not absolutely optimal, zerg has the option to macro hatch, whereas other races don't have much flexibility in regards to their macro building. If anything, zerg actually has two macro options.
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On July 19 2011 04:47 TheFrankOne wrote:
I think you are underestimating the effects of not muling: fewer marines, fewer turrets, less $$$$ for expos. Also, while a queen is more fragile than an OC it is also 400 mins cheaper to rebuild. (maybe should be able to bunker queens in hatches, that would be pretty badass)
Just some things I wanted to point out.
I'm defo not underestimating the effects of not MULE'ing, but the longer the game, the lesser the effects of a missed MULE, as in you should get bigger and bigger numbers of SCV pileing up.
Hehe, a bunkered Queen would indeed be bad ass ^^
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On July 19 2011 04:48 Sinborn wrote:
While it's not absolutely optimal, zerg has the option to macro hatch, whereas other races don't have much flexibility in regards to their macro building. If anything, zerg actually has two macro options.
Yeah, because producing more raxs/facs/gates/starports or whatever isn't an option ;-)
I get your point tho, and a macro hatch can be of good use, but not without a queen attached to it really..
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I wouldn't say you need a Queen for a macro hatch. With semi-decent injects, 3 Queens with 3 non Queen Hatcheries are usually enough larva for me.
On July 19 2011 04:36 BittenByIdra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2011 04:30 gurrpp wrote:
My feeling is that zerg is the most reliant on their macro mechanics, meaning whether they can constantly hit injects plays a larger role in winning than a terran's ability to manage mules well. You get a huge payoff for consistently injecting and are punished heavily for not injecting. Yeah, this is the feeling I tried to communicate, you did it in so many less words! Nice job!
Well that doesn't make it imbalanced, it just makes Zerg harder in terms of learning their macro mechanic.
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On July 19 2011 05:14 Whole wrote:
Well that doesn't make it imbalanced, it just makes Zerg harder in terms of learning their macro mechanic.
Well, the problem is not learning the macro mechanic, but to have it stay functional and alive the whole game
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Whilst it didn't get much attention at the time (mostly because I was confined to blog posting  ) I feel that my alternative queen role thread would solve many of the issues of fragile queens and larva supply while allowing for amazing creep spread. I have to say I haven't been able to ever use it to it's maximum potential (except in one game on Shakuras Plateau against a fairly passive Protoss) but that's a mechanical and mental issue on my side I think.
Here's the thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=223127
The short version of it is a macro hatch for every base and 2-3 queens to support an "area" against drops and still spread creep very well.
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EPT
