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On July 10 2011 15:43 shawster wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2011 19:29 clusen wrote:Great games? Tod vs Moon wasn't great, was quite onesided actually and just Moon trolling. -Moon vs his nemesis, the best Undead ever, FoV, at the WCG qualifier 05 or 06 on Twisted Meadows. Such a sick high level NvU in every aspect, like 40 mins of pure skill and action -FoV vs Grubby on Gnoll Wood @ ESWC 05 - Fov using a unit combo nobody thought would be viable against the Undeadkiller Grubby in such an amazing fashion, MUST WATCH -Moon vs Grubby @ Turtle Rock during the WEG ToD won(06 afaik), just mindblowing - the winner jumped onto the table afterwards, because he was so pumped after winning it -FoV vs GoStop @ Echo Isles, just because the winner wins with exactly 1 supply vs 0 :D And so many more... Just posting names of good games is not enough, so here is one example of a great game I really enjoyed: + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwZ7dsuWSrw (has 3 parts and German casting) for me the best ever played in my brief wc3 experience is the wcg finals between creo and sky. it was amazing. 4k was having trouble with fov leaving and their other guys(fury and someone else) doing nothing. only grubby and tod were doing shit. then creo comes along, noone thinks too much, and he just completely comes and dominates the scene. then he announces his retirement, and i was dissapointed. i was amazed at how fast he came onto the scene and dominated. then he says he's gonna prepare for wcg 2007 like 2-3months before and he makes it all the way to the finals. now he was like 20-80 underdog because he had a much easier bracket while sky had to kill all the big pros(i think, a little blurry). he loses the first game. he then fucking tower rushes sky on the second game cuz he thought he was gonna lose anyways i think. after that it comes to a third game where creo stopped sky from fast expanding. then it fucking went into 1base vs 1 base riflecaster vs NE, i didn't see a single riflecaster game in like months. it comes down to the wire then creo gets level 6 demonhunter, GG.
god damn, i remember creo's reign of dominance pretty much from the instant he hopped onto 4k. he used to be just another dude who posted average results, but once that 4k tag came on... bam! then he disappeared into school.
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On July 10 2011 16:00 Bobo_XIII wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 15:43 shawster wrote:On July 09 2011 19:29 clusen wrote:Great games? Tod vs Moon wasn't great, was quite onesided actually and just Moon trolling. -Moon vs his nemesis, the best Undead ever, FoV, at the WCG qualifier 05 or 06 on Twisted Meadows. Such a sick high level NvU in every aspect, like 40 mins of pure skill and action -FoV vs Grubby on Gnoll Wood @ ESWC 05 - Fov using a unit combo nobody thought would be viable against the Undeadkiller Grubby in such an amazing fashion, MUST WATCH -Moon vs Grubby @ Turtle Rock during the WEG ToD won(06 afaik), just mindblowing - the winner jumped onto the table afterwards, because he was so pumped after winning it -FoV vs GoStop @ Echo Isles, just because the winner wins with exactly 1 supply vs 0 :D And so many more... Just posting names of good games is not enough, so here is one example of a great game I really enjoyed: + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwZ7dsuWSrw (has 3 parts and German casting) for me the best ever played in my brief wc3 experience is the wcg finals between creo and sky. it was amazing. 4k was having trouble with fov leaving and their other guys(fury and someone else) doing nothing. only grubby and tod were doing shit. then creo comes along, noone thinks too much, and he just completely comes and dominates the scene. then he announces his retirement, and i was dissapointed. i was amazed at how fast he came onto the scene and dominated. then he says he's gonna prepare for wcg 2007 like 2-3months before and he makes it all the way to the finals. now he was like 20-80 underdog because he had a much easier bracket while sky had to kill all the big pros(i think, a little blurry). he loses the first game. he then fucking tower rushes sky on the second game cuz he thought he was gonna lose anyways i think. after that it comes to a third game where creo stopped sky from fast expanding. then it fucking went into 1base vs 1 base riflecaster vs NE, i didn't see a single riflecaster game in like months. it comes down to the wire then creo gets level 6 demonhunter, GG. god damn, i remember creo's reign of dominance pretty much from the instant he hopped onto 4k. he used to be just another dude who posted average results, but once that 4k tag came on... bam! then he disappeared into school.
Was that Creo in the WCG final? I thought it was some one else but that final was really really sad to see for a Sky fun. He was so close to 3 WCG title in a row..
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I just won my first game vs easy computer! Took like 3 tries cuz I'm terribad.
Also it was my first stupid cheese !
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On July 09 2011 11:01 Bibbit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2011 10:55 Fulgrim wrote:On July 09 2011 10:46 n.DieJokes wrote:
Can someone tell me about who the dominate players are and were and where some of the non grubby war3 players rising to prominence in sc2 came from? How good they were relatively and the korea/world balance I didn't really follow wc3 scene at all, but I thought that: Naniwa Grubby Thorzain Moon were all warcraft 3 players Yeah a lot of top non-korean sc2 players come from. I think the question is more how good they were in war3. I know Grubby and Moon were like super good and I learned recently that Nani was on fnatic and claimed to be the equivalent of what kawaiirice is to fnatic in sc2.  I'd be interested in who Thorzain was in war3. 
He was one of the two laughing stocks of EU Team of Stars War Shanghai along with ThomasG, aka RAGECupcake. He lost to TH000's off race and SocceR when he decided to use only a single hero which was then Warden. You and me couldn't get less wins than ThomasG and ThorZain.
On July 09 2011 10:46 n.DieJokes wrote:
Can someone tell me about who the dominate players are and were and where some of the non grubby war3 players rising to prominence in sc2 came from? How good they were relatively and the korea/world balance
There were too few good players in EU/NA in WC3 scene. It was basically Korea vs China. China had likes of TeD, TH000, Infi, Fly%100 and Korea had  Lyn, FoCuS, ReMinD,  Moon, SocceR, viOlet etc.
It was basically like Undead vs Nightelf is unplayable for Nightelf and Undead vs Orc is unplayable for Undead (ReMinD, night elf player, off raced orc against undead players for a good amount of time and even after he started playing NE again, his vU matchup was rather weak).
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On July 10 2011 17:29 Djagulingu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2011 10:46 n.DieJokes wrote:
Can someone tell me about who the dominate players are and were and where some of the non grubby war3 players rising to prominence in sc2 came from? How good they were relatively and the korea/world balance There were too few good players in EU/NA in WC3 scene. It was basically Korea vs China. China had likes of TeD, TH000, Infi, Fly%100 and Korea had Lyn, FoCuS, ReMinD, Moon, SocceR, viOlet etc. It was basically like Undead vs Nightelf is unplayable for Nightelf and Undead vs Orc is unplayable for Undead (ReMinD, night elf player, off raced orc against undead players for a good amount of time and even after he started playing NE again, his vU matchup was rather weak).
How is Undead vs Nightelf unplayable for Nightelf? It's pretty much common knowledge that the only imbalanced matchup is Undead vs Orc, in Orcs favour.
Also, Europe had lots of great players. Grubby was around forever and was pretty much always top 5 world. Guys like ToD, Madfrog, Creolophus, HeMan, Insomnia, Apm70 have all had periods where they've been considered among the best. And then you had guys like FaTC, HoT, WinneR etc who often beat the best koreans. WinneR for example was never that known, but he beat the best korean undeads in mirror more than he lost to them. Looks to me like you didn't start following WC3 until the last few years.
For a very long period Europe was actually considered the continent that had the best human players. (Before guys like Sky, Infi and th00 had come into prominence).
Also to the guy earlier who said that Human towers were now fortified armor, that's not true. That was only in the beta-patch, not in the final one that's live now.
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On July 09 2011 10:02 Bibbit wrote:Okay hi. I know a lot of TL'ers nowadays come from a War 3 background. I, however, am rooted in sc1. Not super deeply rooted, only started watching in late 2008 and was D+ max on a good day, but that's what I come from. Anyways, more to the point. I played a tiny tiny bit of War 3 about a year ago. Nothing serious, just some games with a real life friend. I find the game kinda cool and for some reason just became interested in it. So I have some questions. ^_^ 1) This one I'm afraid to ask: Is it generally considered well-balanced? Or is there a race that a ton of people play or nobody really plays? 2) Is there some sort of community for the game? Of course not expecting anything on the level of the wonderful site that is TL but is there anything? 3) Do people still play this game? I don't necessarily mean a pro-scene as I'm not aspiring to be high level. Just wondering if I were to go on a War 3 server, if anyone would be there. >_> 4) How would I go about learning how the game works? For the time being I'm naturally not concerned about complex strategies or anything. I just genuinely dont know a thing about the game and have no clue what a "typical" game looks like. Thank you very much for any help I can get. Forgive me if this was just a huge search function fail from me. :D:D:D
1) In general its pretty well balanced. blademaster is the only thing that really fucks everything up
2) www.wcreplays.com
3) yes, you wont have a problem finding people to play on any of the servers. (not true for better players. search times become increasingly long if you don't give out some def wins on east/west. The same problem doesn't really seem to happen on europe because there hackers are generally better than the american hackers)
4) first learn all the units. Then dl some reps for the race you want to play so you can get an idea of general unit compositions. big note: in wc3, micro is generally your #1 focus. The only way to really improve your micro is by just playing a bunch.
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On July 10 2011 15:43 shawster wrote:+ Show Spoiler +for me the best ever played in my brief wc3 experience is the wcg finals between creo and sky. it was amazing. 4k was having trouble with fov leaving and their other guys(fury and someone else) doing nothing. only grubby and tod were doing shit. then creo comes along, noone thinks too much, and he just completely comes and dominates the scene. then he announces his retirement, and i was dissapointed. i was amazed at how fast he came onto the scene and dominated. then he says he's gonna prepare for wcg 2007 like 2-3months before and he makes it all the way to the finals. now he was like 20-80 underdog because he had a much easier bracket while sky had to kill all the big pros(i think, a little blurry). he loses the first game. he then fucking tower rushes sky on the second game cuz he thought he was gonna lose anyways i think. after that it comes to a third game where creo stopped sky from fast expanding. then it fucking went into 1base vs 1 base riflecaster vs NE, i didn't see a single riflecaster game in like months. it comes down to the wire then creo gets level 6 demonhunter, GG. heres the game i just watched it it still makes me soooo hype http://kiwi.kz/watch/qpyn4s3xvyj4/
That finals were soo amazing, I agree!
I was watching it with some friends in teamspeak together, and the third game was just perfect.
Not to mention that Creo changed the way NE was played vs Human with the second game, mass Hunts became so popular afterwards.
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On July 10 2011 16:14 Bibbit wrote:
I just won my first game vs easy computer! Took like 3 tries cuz I'm terribad.
Also it was my first stupid cheese !
Oh... wow... ok maybe get like a friend to coach you.
+ Show Spoiler +
Wow really vs easy computer? Was it like a 1v5 or something? :>
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On July 11 2011 05:17 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 16:14 Bibbit wrote:
I just won my first game vs easy computer! Took like 3 tries cuz I'm terribad.
Also it was my first stupid cheese ! Oh... wow... ok maybe get like a friend to coach you. + Show Spoiler +
Wow really vs easy computer? Was it like a 1v5 or something? :>
Heh, I actually had a few people offer to help me out. ^^ But in my defense, I spent the first few games reading tooltips and not actually playing.
But yea, fuck you too I guess. 
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Heh, I deserve that.
Here's the compendium I think you should read. It'll give you some info on things your friends aren't sure of (unless they're good).
http://classic.battle.net/war3/
warning: reading it can take 30 hours and it can be pretty addictive to refer to.
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On July 11 2011 12:04 obesechicken13 wrote:Heh, I deserve that. Here's the compendium I think you should read. It'll give you some info on things your friends aren't sure of (unless they're good). http://classic.battle.net/war3/warning: reading it can take 30 hours and it can be pretty addictive to refer to.
don't take anything from the blizzards strategy guide - its all garbage. Some of the numbers aren't even correct.
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On July 11 2011 13:05 arrrk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 12:04 obesechicken13 wrote:Heh, I deserve that. Here's the compendium I think you should read. It'll give you some info on things your friends aren't sure of (unless they're good). http://classic.battle.net/war3/warning: reading it can take 30 hours and it can be pretty addictive to refer to. don't take anything from the blizzards strategy guide - its all garbage. Some of the numbers aren't even correct.
There's a couple flaws, but the official guide is miles ahead of any of the wikis in terms of its figures.
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On July 11 2011 12:04 obesechicken13 wrote:Heh, I deserve that. Here's the compendium I think you should read. It'll give you some info on things your friends aren't sure of (unless they're good). http://classic.battle.net/war3/warning: reading it can take 30 hours and it can be pretty addictive to refer to.
I was just clownin, hence the clown face. :D
And yeah I looked a bit at that. There's an absolute ton of stuff on there. >_> Anything specific you feel would be extra helpful?
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On July 10 2011 17:29 Djagulingu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2011 11:01 Bibbit wrote:On July 09 2011 10:55 Fulgrim wrote:On July 09 2011 10:46 n.DieJokes wrote:
Can someone tell me about who the dominate players are and were and where some of the non grubby war3 players rising to prominence in sc2 came from? How good they were relatively and the korea/world balance I didn't really follow wc3 scene at all, but I thought that: Naniwa Grubby Thorzain Moon were all warcraft 3 players Yeah a lot of top non-korean sc2 players come from. I think the question is more how good they were in war3. I know Grubby and Moon were like super good and I learned recently that Nani was on fnatic and claimed to be the equivalent of what kawaiirice is to fnatic in sc2. I'd be interested in who Thorzain was in war3. He was one of the two laughing stocks of EU Team of Stars War Shanghai along with ThomasG, aka RAGECupcake. He lost to TH000's off race and SocceR when he decided to use only a single hero which was then Warden. You and me couldn't get less wins than ThomasG and ThorZain. Show nested quote +On July 09 2011 10:46 n.DieJokes wrote:
Can someone tell me about who the dominate players are and were and where some of the non grubby war3 players rising to prominence in sc2 came from? How good they were relatively and the korea/world balance There were too few good players in EU/NA in WC3 scene. It was basically Korea vs China. China had likes of TeD, TH000, Infi, Fly%100 and Korea had Lyn, FoCuS, ReMinD, Moon, SocceR, viOlet etc. It was basically like Undead vs Nightelf is unplayable for Nightelf and Undead vs Orc is unplayable for Undead (ReMinD, night elf player, off raced orc against undead players for a good amount of time and even after he started playing NE again, his vU matchup was rather weak).
Thorzain might have had one bad tournament but he was almost on Grubby's level when they both quit. Can't remember exactly but iirc he lost 1-2, 1-2 to grubby at european blizzcon. Thorzain was 2/3rd best player in Europe along with Lucifron for the last 6 months of the game.
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Interesting read in here since I've never played WC3 but only heard how those guys have sick micro (yet I've never noticed it being great with top ex pro WC players, just my op though). Why didn't Blizz just buff undead if they had such a hard time vs Orc? Maybe that's a dumb question but I honestly don't know the answer. Also can someone explain the whole apm thing that comes with WC players turned SC2? Like I said I never noticed them having any better micro than other pro's maybe I'm just not seeing something properly.
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On July 11 2011 15:04 BilltownRunner wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 17:29 Djagulingu wrote:On July 09 2011 11:01 Bibbit wrote:On July 09 2011 10:55 Fulgrim wrote:On July 09 2011 10:46 n.DieJokes wrote:
Can someone tell me about who the dominate players are and were and where some of the non grubby war3 players rising to prominence in sc2 came from? How good they were relatively and the korea/world balance I didn't really follow wc3 scene at all, but I thought that: Naniwa Grubby Thorzain Moon were all warcraft 3 players Yeah a lot of top non-korean sc2 players come from. I think the question is more how good they were in war3. I know Grubby and Moon were like super good and I learned recently that Nani was on fnatic and claimed to be the equivalent of what kawaiirice is to fnatic in sc2. I'd be interested in who Thorzain was in war3. He was one of the two laughing stocks of EU Team of Stars War Shanghai along with ThomasG, aka RAGECupcake. He lost to TH000's off race and SocceR when he decided to use only a single hero which was then Warden. You and me couldn't get less wins than ThomasG and ThorZain. On July 09 2011 10:46 n.DieJokes wrote:
Can someone tell me about who the dominate players are and were and where some of the non grubby war3 players rising to prominence in sc2 came from? How good they were relatively and the korea/world balance There were too few good players in EU/NA in WC3 scene. It was basically Korea vs China. China had likes of TeD, TH000, Infi, Fly%100 and Korea had Lyn, FoCuS, ReMinD, Moon, SocceR, viOlet etc. It was basically like Undead vs Nightelf is unplayable for Nightelf and Undead vs Orc is unplayable for Undead (ReMinD, night elf player, off raced orc against undead players for a good amount of time and even after he started playing NE again, his vU matchup was rather weak). Thorzain might have had one bad tournament but he was almost on Grubby's level when they both quit. Can't remember exactly but iirc he lost 1-2, 1-2 to grubby at european blizzcon. Thorzain was 2/3rd best player in Europe along with Lucifron for the last 6 months of the game.
I was lucky enough to catch the last chunks of WC3 scene and Thorzain was on the same level as grubby? Lol. He was never 2/3rd best player in europe. In EU, Happy was the best player along with Grubby and he was the only player in Grubby's level. ThomasG, ThorZain, Lucifron, Vortix, XLorD, whatever was never on that level. At least during the last 6 months of the game.
And yeah, WC3 scene was like this: In the beginning, EU/NA people were able to compete with koreans, chinese people step into the game, koreans and chinese slowly take over, in the end, scene gets dominated by koreans and chinese. It's basically like A class koreans can beat the shit out of best european/north american players during the last 6 months.
And, UD has a pretty high win rate against NE. It was like Space and TeD have a combined number of 3 losses to NE players (I'm just exaggarating, but those guys, and Happy too, rarely lost to NE. Like for each loss, they get 5-6 wins or something like that).
@OP if you for some reason decide to play undead, watch TeD's games. He is like July of the WC3 scene.
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Use to love this game, the best team at one point was 4k for a very long time, rememeber when they won the wc3l clan league with only 3 players as someone didnt turn up or coudlnt make it??? Had to forfeit liek 2 games a match I think as one game they played their manager. Got to Love ToD and Grubby then... Could be wrong with ToD as not sure if he was actually with them at that time.
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On July 11 2011 15:21 RaLakedaimon wrote:
Why didn't Blizz just buff undead if they had such a hard time vs Orc? .
It's hard to perfectly balance a game with 4 races for elite levels of play
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On July 11 2011 20:27 SpavaM wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 15:21 RaLakedaimon wrote:
Why didn't Blizz just buff undead if they had such a hard time vs Orc? . It's hard to perfectly balance a game with 4 races for elite levels of play
Well, buffing undead would lead to many difficulties for 3 other races. Good undead players already have a good win rate against Night Elf in both ladder and elite scene and Human race sucks anyway (or players suck, I don't remember too many human players winning tournaments and shit, they generally lose to night elf/orc anyway), buffing undead would lead to an uncontestable reign of undead players.
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On July 11 2011 21:12 Djagulingu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 20:27 SpavaM wrote:On July 11 2011 15:21 RaLakedaimon wrote:
Why didn't Blizz just buff undead if they had such a hard time vs Orc? . It's hard to perfectly balance a game with 4 races for elite levels of play Well, buffing undead would lead to many difficulties for 3 other races. Good undead players already have a good win rate against Night Elf in both ladder and elite scene and Human race sucks anyway (or players suck, I don't remember too many human players winning tournaments and shit, they generally lose to night elf/orc anyway), buffing undead would lead to an uncontestable reign of undead players.
the problem was/is that human is forced to play this tankshit against NE and UD, so the only interesting MU is HUvsOR. HU vs HU is a bit boring because most of the time it is just breaker vs breaker and that is not reaaaalyyy entertaining from the observers pov.
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EPT
