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On June 30 2011 01:47 antilyon wrote:
Yes, it's easier to reach the higher levels of tech tree with Terran, but terran tech switch is pretty hard.
Let's look at the three massive ground units then...
Protoss:
I want Colossus, so I need Cyber>Robo>Robotics Support Bay, a totally separate structure that serves little purpose other than for Colossus. Colossus can't shoot up so if there are Vikings on the field the Robotics bay can be used for Observer and Warp Prism speed?
Zerg:
I want Ultralisks, so I need Infestor Pit>Hive>Ultralisk Cavern. I may never use Infestors and Ultralisks can't shoot up so the building sits idle if Ultralisks become ineffective. In fact, Zerg has no Tier 3 units that shoot up...
Terran:
I want Thors, so I need Factory w/Tech Lab>Armory. The Factory I need already to open up the rest of Tier 2, the Tech Lab is cheap, and the Armory I need anyways to unlock Tier 2 Engineering Bay upgrades, upgrade all mech units, and upgrade all air units. So if I tech switch to Bio or air I need the Armory anyways! Neat!
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Terrans don't get all the hate.
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You should see what protoss usually gets in PvZ... F11+block saved the game for me 
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On June 30 2011 02:41 VaultDweller wrote:You should see what protoss usually gets in PvZ... F11+block saved the game for me
As a zerg I get abuse all the time in ZvP. Flaming and balance whining aren't confined to any particular race or matchup. You can find players who will complain about any race, unit, matchup and map.
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On June 30 2011 02:41 VaultDweller wrote:You should see what protoss usually gets in PvZ... F11+block saved the game for me
Omg I only found that recently. <3 that feature, though I use it more when I'm cheesing the shit out of someone! ^_^
Usually the only hate I get from zergs is a quick mention of a-moving right before they leave so I dont have to use the f11 block too much in that situation.
Edit: @mooose, yeah thats certainly true. I know when everyone was crying protoss imba pvz, I was always yelling at my friends about how much I hated Zerg!
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On June 30 2011 01:01 TheGiz wrote:Well... - The Terran Tech Tree provides for easy counters and tech switching while the other Tech Trees are harder to advance through and tech switch. If you need proof I will only say "Tech Lab." Terran also gets counter-units available to them earlier than other races.
- Terran gets MULES, which advance your mineral collection rate very quickly. This is probably better than Chrono Boost or Spawn Larvae despite the inherent advantages in each.
- Terran mobile detection is the easiest to access while other races require a higher tech level.
- The Marine can shoot air and kite the other basic units, making it much more effective as the first Tier 1 unit. Stim comes in Tier 1 while Charge and Blink are Tier 2 abilities and Adrenal Glands are Tier 3.
I think that sums up most people's reasons for hating Terran.
What the fuck, this is just so wrong everywhere.
[*]The Terran Tech Tree provides for easy counters and tech switching while the other Tech Trees are harder to advance through and tech switch. If you need proof I will only say "Tech Lab." Terran also gets counter-units available to them earlier than other races.
Er, no. Protoss tech tree is by far the best. EVERYTHING on the ground upgrades from a single set of Forge upgrades, so you can easily switch back and forth from what you want. The counters thing is valid though because Marines do well against almost everything until high tech splash units.
[*]Terran gets MULES, which advance your mineral collection rate very quickly. This is probably better than Chrono Boost or Spawn Larvae despite the inherent advantages in each.
This is not fact in any way, shape, or form. Yes it helps mineral collection rate but you also mine out much faster. Not to mention the Protoss and Zerg macro abilities allow them to pour it into either economy or army, whereas Terran can only opt for economy. Late game Chronoboosts and Injects are MUCH better than MULEs.
[*]Terran mobile detection is the easiest to access while other races require a higher tech level.
This is the one I found the most wrong. Seriously? Ravens are the worst (and costliest) mobile detection in the game by far. By far. I don't think I even need to explain why. And if you mean Scans, well, that's one less MULE you get.
[*]The Marine can shoot air and kite the other basic units, making it much more effective as the first Tier 1 unit. Stim comes in Tier 1 while Charge and Blink are Tier 2 abilities and Adrenal Glands are Tier 3.
The thing with that is, Marines are horrendously bad without Stim. They are balanced around having Stim. They don't beat anything cost effectively without Stim. Comparing Stim with Charge/Adrenal is ridiculous, since those aren't needed for the Zealot/Zergling to be effective past the early game while Stim is absolutely crucial. It already takes 3 minutes to upgrade.
Terran do get some hate and are probably the race most in the forefront (due in part to their good results in SC2 and in part to the long history of Terran dominance in SCBW) but for none of the reasons you mentioned.
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I get plenty of hate as protoss. I don't even all in or cheese.
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On June 30 2011 03:59 Curu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2011 01:01 TheGiz wrote:Well... - The Terran Tech Tree provides for easy counters and tech switching while the other Tech Trees are harder to advance through and tech switch. If you need proof I will only say "Tech Lab." Terran also gets counter-units available to them earlier than other races.
- Terran gets MULES, which advance your mineral collection rate very quickly. This is probably better than Chrono Boost or Spawn Larvae despite the inherent advantages in each.
- Terran mobile detection is the easiest to access while other races require a higher tech level.
- The Marine can shoot air and kite the other basic units, making it much more effective as the first Tier 1 unit. Stim comes in Tier 1 while Charge and Blink are Tier 2 abilities and Adrenal Glands are Tier 3.
I think that sums up most people's reasons for hating Terran. What the fuck, this is just so wrong everywhere. Show nested quote +[*]The Terran Tech Tree provides for easy counters and tech switching while the other Tech Trees are harder to advance through and tech switch. If you need proof I will only say "Tech Lab." Terran also gets counter-units available to them earlier than other races. Er, no. Protoss tech tree is by far the best. EVERYTHING on the ground upgrades from a single set of Forge upgrades, so you can easily switch back and forth from what you want. The counters thing is valid though because Marines do well against almost everything until high tech splash units. Show nested quote +[*]Terran gets MULES, which advance your mineral collection rate very quickly. This is probably better than Chrono Boost or Spawn Larvae despite the inherent advantages in each. This is not fact in any way, shape, or form. Yes it helps mineral collection rate but you also mine out much faster. Not to mention the Protoss and Zerg macro abilities allow them to pour it into either economy or army, whereas Terran can only opt for economy. Late game Chronoboosts and Injects are MUCH better than MULEs. Show nested quote +[*]Terran mobile detection is the easiest to access while other races require a higher tech level. This is the one I found the most wrong. Seriously? Ravens are the worst (and costliest) mobile detection in the game by far. By far. I don't think I even need to explain why. And if you mean Scans, well, that's one less MULE you get. Show nested quote +[*]The Marine can shoot air and kite the other basic units, making it much more effective as the first Tier 1 unit. Stim comes in Tier 1 while Charge and Blink are Tier 2 abilities and Adrenal Glands are Tier 3. The thing with that is, Marines are horrendously bad without Stim. They are balanced around having Stim. They don't beat anything cost effectively without Stim. Comparing Stim with Charge/Adrenal is ridiculous, since those aren't needed for the Zealot/Zergling to be effective past the early game while Stim is absolutely crucial. It already takes 3 minutes to upgrade. Terran do get some hate and are probably the race most in the forefront (due in part to their good results in SC2 and in part to the long history of Terran dominance in SCBW) but for none of the reasons you mentioned.
Of course they get hate for all those reasons. They might be more or less significant, they are still true and terran roundabout a full race, while the other two are lacking a bit.
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On June 30 2011 03:59 Curu wrote:Show nested quote +[*]Terran mobile detection is the easiest to access while other races require a higher tech level. This is the one I found the most wrong. Seriously? Ravens are the worst (and costliest) mobile detection in the game by far. By far. I don't think I even need to explain why. And if you mean Scans, well, that's one less MULE you get.
I meant Scan, and I meant the timing with which is becomes available to you, which is about 3-4 minutes into the game. I don't think this is fair.
The Terran army at any time can have detection if it needs it. Cloaked units are totally vulnerable when attacking a Terran army. The Terran can defend his base at any time also by scanning to detect cloaked attackers. It requires no additional tech on top of what you would normally have anyways.
Have you ever been caught unawares by DTs and had to quit because of it? Few Terrans have to.
The Raven is slow to build and costs a lot of gas, but it is far from useless, and can do great harm with its abilities. Compare that to the Observer with its cheap but singular purpose, and the Overseer whose abilities are largely useless.
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Its not just the Terrans, i switch races almost daily and playing as Protoss i get hate from Terrans & Zergs, only to switch to Terran and get told how imba it is from a Protoss and Zerg.
When I play as Zerg I get some hate aswell from both races again, but its not so bad.
TL;DR - T & P get equal hate on the ladder in my experience.
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Every race gets a ton of shit, even random players. Zerg used to be the imbalanced race, then it was terran, then it was protoss (and still sort of is according to idra), now there is alot of outcry about zerg again.
Also, there are people who will ALWAYS rage about race imbalance based on the race they played, i.e. Terran players bitch about Zerg/Protoss, Protoss bitch about Zerg/Terran etc.
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Marines and Marauders with stim are quite good. Stimmed marauders are the bane of my existence.
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Anyone who's hating on Terran is behind the times in their BM. It's all about Protoss now.
The worst you can hate on Terran for is doing some cheese that's next to impossible to scout.
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EPT
