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Hey guys, I've been working at a consulting firm for over a year now and I suppose I just wanted to share some of my insights into consulting. Hopefully it is somewhat useful for prospective graduates interested in joining an consultancy firm.
The Market: There are consultants available for every single industry, from telecommunications to marketing to supply chain. Just like the accounting firms, the big consultants serve the big corporations. Although many people lean towards management consulting as the sexier arm (also very well compensated). I am currently in a mixture of management consulting, supply chain and procurement role, so I scope is more limited to those 3 functions.
The Big Players: Within management consulting, the top tier firms are Boston Consulting Group, Mckinsey, Bain, Booz and AT Kearney, get into any of those 5 and you’re doing very well for yourself! The big 4 accounting firms also offer advisory services and cover a broader range of industry market. IBM/Accenture are huge in the IT market and SKM is a large pillar for engineering services.
Entry: Just like you would imagine, gaining employment in the top tier firms isn’t easy, spectacular university marks (I’m unsure what the American/EU standards are) are necessary, work experience is essential, powerpoint/excel competency is a prerequisite and anything beyond is a good premium to have. One thing all these firms have in common is that they ask the same bloody interview questions! And this is where I hope I can add the most value here, to provide an insight into what the employers are seeking. You may or may not heard of these questions but they are industry standards, they will put you on the spot with what you might perceive as absolutely random questions:
1. The most infamous: how many golf balls are there on a jumbo jet? The answer isn’t “I don’t know, never been on a plane” or “162,452”. You must note that they are NOT after a discrete answer but what they ARE seeking is a structured approach to tackle the solution and the assumptions you make (I’ll come back to this key point later). The way you should answer this is by making a whole load of realistic assumptions; e.g. jumbo is a 3-4-3 with 2 aisle configuration, assume 40cm widths per seat and etc etc until you derive the volume of the jumbo and divide it by the assumed volume of the golf ball.
2. A ramp up on difficulty might be something like: how many 10cent coins are there on X Street at any point in time. Again, this comes down to developing key assumptions such as 10cent coin per pedestrian/household/business, then start extrapolating on number of pedestrian/household/business and finally incorporate external factors like time of day (more pedestrians at 9am and 5pm), public transport and entertainment events etc etc. Employers do not care about the answer, they don’t expect a discrete answer (they wouldn’t know themselves), all they want to see are good assumptions and a structured approach.
3. The hardest one I’ve heard was: how many rats are there in New York city: I’ll leave that one to you guys to see how you would answer this one.
The remainder of the interview questions will usually consist of basic set behavioural questions that you can google yourself (this is dependent on the role you applied) the more senior it is the less behaviour and more experience related questions you will be asked.
The Cost/Benefit: Remind yourself that working in a big consultant company = working long long hours, almost approaching investment banking hours. You don’t get compensated as well as the IB guys buy the reward is EXPOSURE. Being a consultant means that you will be working all the big industries out there, banking, construction, telecommunications and so on. You get to develop a rapid understanding on the mechanisms of each industry and if you are lucky, you meet the right people that like you (hang on to these people), the exposure allows you to pursue an industry role that you desire knowing the exact preference. You will definitely at some stage be offered a job by your client, if you don’t then you’re not a very good consultant. While the bonus and pay are pretty decent, the biggest reward for myself is the industry exposure and meeting the key stakeholders, in other words – resume building and social networking. The downside however is the long hours, and depending on your rank, you will either be an excel drone or a powerpoint monkey although both are good skills to have and you will eventually “fall in love” both programs. At some stage you will realise that the work you are doing is all bullshit, and you would be right. There is a saying that goes something like “Consultants borrow your watch to tell you the time then walk off with your watch”, however hilarious the analogy goes, it is fairly accurate, coming back to the “assumptions” point above, consultancy is all about making assumptions to reach a conclusion (telling you what time it is) and we’ll charge you a crap load (getting the watch back). So don’t be surprised that you will be frustrated with the deliverables and the long hours you are putting in all end up down a garbage chute. This shouldn’t come at a surprise that given the allotted timeframe, consultants must understand the functioning mechanisms of the business unit to make a quick judgement that may have significant impact on the company’s strategy (see, I just wrote a line of fluff).
You will also be travelling…A LOT…I am lucky because my company has a policy of returning to office on Friday so I get to be home at least 3 days a week but it also means I’m flying 2-4 times a week. It might sound exotic and exciting at first, but the dread you get on a Sunday night and the notion of living out of a suitcase is straight out of Clooney’s “up in the air” and for those who have watched the movie knows how bad it can get. Subsequently, consultant firms are generally younger in medium age and would be a terrible profession for a family man.
Conclusion: I guess this is more of a TLDR, being a consultant will pay you well, allow you to travel a lot, meet the right people and provide you with exposure with multiple industries but you will be working long hours, doing BS work and never be home! I hope I provided everyone with some useful insights into the consulting world. Please do not hesitate to ask questions for any clarifications. Do note that I don’t know too much beyond the industries I work in currently, although I can safely assume that it’s all as BS as mine.
Oh yer, as Idra would say, excel/powerpoint is a good skill toi have
Thanks for reading TL’ers =]
 
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Consulting: If you're not part of the solution, there's money to be made in prolonging the problem!
Just kidding 
Much appreciate this blog. I've wondered often about doing Software consulting, but the idea of travelling a lot plus the responsibilities of being a consultant is something I'm not sure I'm ready for just yet, thanks for the insight! :D
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On June 27 2011 10:47 prOxi.swAMi wrote:Consulting: If you're not part of the solution, there's money to be made in prolonging the problem!Just kidding Much appreciate this blog. I've wondered often about doing Software consulting, but the idea of travelling a lot plus the responsibilities of being a consultant is something I'm not sure I'm ready for just yet, thanks for the insight! :D
hahah you're not far off! i mean, if there's no inefficiencies in the market then there's no room for consultants! one thing you will find when you worked on enough projects is that in general, industry is very very inefficient due to the heavy political drivers. very sad to see.
I suppose travelling would depend on where you are and the company you work for, if there is a lot of local work then you won't be travelling as much. In terms of responsibilities, the right company will provide you with enough resources to help you adjust. You will have a brilliant time working on a project with the right people, regardless of the content of the work.
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On June 27 2011 10:04 Doraemon wrote:
Conclusion: I guess this is more of a TLDR, being a consultant will pay you well, allow you to travel a lot, meet the right people and provide you with exposure with multiple industries but you will be working long hours, doing BS work and never be home! I hope I provided everyone with some useful insights into the consulting world. Please do not hesitate to ask questions for any clarifications. Do note that I don’t know too much beyond the industries I work in currently, although I can safely assume that it’s all as BS as mine.
Oh yer, as Idra would say, excel/powerpoint is a good skill toi have
Thanks for reading TL’ers =]
Just read the TLDR, since you have long hours, I'd assume there's good job stability eg. lots of work and people don't get laid off more than in the average job?
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We all know the reason to do consulting is to get those Starwood points!
Consulting seriously is a drag, traveling all the time is not for the lighthearted. Props to you!
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Zurich15315 Posts
On June 27 2011 11:01 kakaman wrote:
We all know the reason to do consulting is to get those Starwood points!
Consulting seriously is a drag, traveling all the time is not for the lighthearted. Props to you!
Platinum Starwood here. (Feels like the strat forum haha)
Been doing consulting for 4 years now and I still enjoy it. Although these days I don't see the point in tidying my apartment anymore so it's a constant mess. So I don't really want to spend time there, and travel even on weekends :-(
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What sort of education do you need to get into consulting? Masters needed?
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I just applied at McKinsey; I know it's really competitive but I'm still hoping for the best!
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I had a friend who worked for Mckinsey and now works for Goldman Sachs. He skipped high school, graduated with nearly a 4.0 in Computer Science from Cal Poly, went to Harvard Law (got on law review), clerked for the chief judge for the federal circuit, and taught intellectual property at Oxford for a year. My impression is that the barrier to entry into these firms is quite high. That being said the benefits are pretty awesome, he was saying that you get top law firm like pay, but without the ridiculous hours. Seems like a great life to me (or at least a well paying one)!
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Just saying, it's much, much better working in a product based company rather than a consulting company, as far as software goes. A lot more freedom, better working conditions, more creativity involved in the job, and more satisfaction. But the problem is, atleast here, they are few, and financially it's easier for a consulting company to take off.
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On June 27 2011 11:13 The_LiNk wrote:
What sort of education do you need to get into consulting? Masters needed?
Most of the jobs I looked at when I was hunting required a minimum of a bachelors I believe. Masters cant hurt though and will almost always lead to better salary/offer.
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On June 27 2011 11:26 LuckyFool wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 11:13 The_LiNk wrote:
What sort of education do you need to get into consulting? Masters needed? Most of the jobs I looked at when I was hunting required a minimum of a bachelors I believe. Masters cant hurt though and will almost always lead to better salary/offer.
Any bachelor as long as you get good marks? Are there bachelors that are favoured? Personally I'm looking to do Financial Economics or Applied Mathematics in Finance and Economics at my school. Would it be better to be a BBA or BComm than BSc?
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On June 27 2011 11:13 The_LiNk wrote:
What sort of education do you need to get into consulting? Masters needed?
you can get by with an Associates, or even nothing, if you have the right people saying your name when you apply
(obviously you will get weeded out in the interview process if you aren't worth your salt)
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On June 27 2011 11:09 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 11:01 kakaman wrote:
We all know the reason to do consulting is to get those Starwood points!
Consulting seriously is a drag, traveling all the time is not for the lighthearted. Props to you! Platinum Starwood here. (Feels like the strat forum haha)Been doing consulting for 4 years now and I still enjoy it. Although these days I don't see the point in tidying my apartment anymore so it's a constant mess. So I don't really want to spend time there, and travel even on weekends :-(
hahah. yes! you will get so stuck into frequent flyer miles and stuff. i'm at my apartment like 1 day a week now == living out of a suitcase
On June 27 2011 11:00 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 10:04 Doraemon wrote:
Conclusion: I guess this is more of a TLDR, being a consultant will pay you well, allow you to travel a lot, meet the right people and provide you with exposure with multiple industries but you will be working long hours, doing BS work and never be home! I hope I provided everyone with some useful insights into the consulting world. Please do not hesitate to ask questions for any clarifications. Do note that I don’t know too much beyond the industries I work in currently, although I can safely assume that it’s all as BS as mine.
Oh yer, as Idra would say, excel/powerpoint is a good skill toi have
Thanks for reading TL’ers =]
Just read the TLDR, since you have long hours, I'd assume there's good job stability eg. lots of work and people don't get laid off more than in the average job?
stability is good because the skill you have is very transferable anyway. plus you will get job offers from clients and etc. however, if you're not a very good consultant, you will be shown the door just like any other job you have
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I'm in this industry as a recent grad (Chartered Accounting), but it's quite depressing as I'm unable to find work.
I had only 1 interview from the big 4 accounting firms from campus recruiting, and I was unable to get in. Later I heard the recruiter (manager, not the HR) that interviewed me didn't hire a single student whereas another recruiter hired 4 students. I'm not sure was it because of bad luck that I selected that recruiter's slot or that the other 4 students were really superior. They only asked behavioral questions, although I was prepared for the questions mentioned in the OP. I will try again in september when they are recruiting.
For now, I have moved on to CFA, as that at least allows me to take exams. I'm hoping that when I pass level 1 or 2, I can land interviews easier.
If anyone can provide some comments on my progress or some tips to increase my chances of an interview that would be great. I currently just send cover letter, resume, and transcript to job posts from job sites and my university's career site.
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On June 27 2011 11:20 Ingenol wrote:
I just applied at McKinsey; I know it's really competitive but I'm still hoping for the best!
good luck mate 
On June 27 2011 11:13 The_LiNk wrote:
What sort of education do you need to get into consulting? Masters needed?
not in Australia at least, like i pointed out, having a structured thinking is the best skillset you can have as an analyst. however, learn excel! both are reasons why consultant firms love engineers.
bachelors is sufficient
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On June 27 2011 11:40 Ryshi wrote:
I'm in this industry as a recent grad (Chartered Accounting), but it's quite depressing as I'm unable to find work.
I had only 1 interview from the big 4 accounting firms from campus recruiting, and I was unable to get in. Later I heard the recruiter (manager, not the HR) that interviewed me didn't hire a single student whereas another recruiter hired 4 students. I'm not sure was it because of bad luck that I selected that recruiter's slot or that the other 4 students were really superior. They only asked behavioral questions, although I was prepared for the questions mentioned in the OP. I will try again in september when they are recruiting.
For now, I have moved on to CFA, as that at least allows me to take exams. I'm hoping that when I pass level 1 or 2, I can land interviews easier.
If anyone can provide some comments on my progress or some tips to increase my chances of an interview that would be great. I currently just send cover letter, resume, and transcript to job posts from job sites and my university's career site.
i think one thing people should realise is that over-qualification is a reality. you want to focus on the most basic skillsets that match the requirement of the employer. cover letter is important, don't bs on your resume (it will haunt you) but do embellish during interviews. i suppose it comes with practice, hope you get there mate, the market is picking up from what i heard.
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1019 Posts
thanks for writing this, I learned something new today
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I Interned at an acoustical consulting firm in high school that did consulting work for concert halls/opera houses/theaters etc. Its vastly different from the types listed here XD, but thanks for the post. Now I understand more of why things in the company where the way they were.
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So in terms of travelling. Where have you consulting guys on TL gone to?
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To the OP:
How difficult would it be for a guy with a bad-terrible GPA (think 3.3 ish) to break into a decent consulting firm (I am thinking ZS associates et al.)?
I am from a top school (think HYPS) and have bit unusual resume (no real internship though..)
I am pretty confident I can do well in interviews though.
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On June 27 2011 11:45 Doraemon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 11:40 Ryshi wrote:
I'm in this industry as a recent grad (Chartered Accounting), but it's quite depressing as I'm unable to find work.
I had only 1 interview from the big 4 accounting firms from campus recruiting, and I was unable to get in. Later I heard the recruiter (manager, not the HR) that interviewed me didn't hire a single student whereas another recruiter hired 4 students. I'm not sure was it because of bad luck that I selected that recruiter's slot or that the other 4 students were really superior. They only asked behavioral questions, although I was prepared for the questions mentioned in the OP. I will try again in september when they are recruiting.
For now, I have moved on to CFA, as that at least allows me to take exams. I'm hoping that when I pass level 1 or 2, I can land interviews easier.
If anyone can provide some comments on my progress or some tips to increase my chances of an interview that would be great. I currently just send cover letter, resume, and transcript to job posts from job sites and my university's career site. i think one thing people should realise is that over-qualification is a reality. you want to focus on the most basic skillsets that match the requirement of the employer. cover letter is important, don't bs on your resume (it will haunt you) but do embellish during interviews. i suppose it comes with practice, hope you get there mate, the market is picking up from what i heard.
Thanks for the reply. By basic skill sets, do you mean soft skills listed like "Attention to detail", "Analytic", "Communication", etc.? Should I specifically list these on the resume? I do mention these in the cover letter by relating to an experience or in the description of a job of resume. Sorry for asking this question, I'm sure many websites would answer this if I just googled, but I would be more confident from your answer.
My resume is pretty honest, my cgpa is at 3.7, pretty low compared to the geniuses but it's still within top 10% of my class. I sometimes get paranoid if other people are able to land interviews because they bs on their resume? but then again, even if they did I would stick to my ethics.
I'm also quite good at excel, compared to colleagues. I can thoroughly use the vlookup stuff, pivot table, etc. I also know vba. The problem is, I did not acquire these skills from jobs but I'm self-taught (and learnt from my dad who's a programmer), so employers may feel I'm just bsing. My previous employer immediately hired me after I was tested at excel, as I was exceptional. However, I feel unable to communicate to new employers of my ability. I was thinking of including a portfolio of the programs I wrote (eg. pic of a model), but it makes the email application big for no reason.
I'm fully aware excel isn't everything to a job, perhaps all they need is someone who knows the basics.
I'm sorry to sound like I'm ranting on your blog, and also that it seems unclear of what I am asking for.
Can I just ask if you know whether HR reads applications at all? I sometimes feel they don't even look at my application when I apply online. I feel my resume is quite impressive because whenever I go to a network event that looks at my resume, 70% of the time I get a call. Thanks!
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On June 27 2011 12:03 The_LiNk wrote:
So in terms of travelling. Where have you consulting guys on TL gone to?
I'm being sent on-site in Singapore every two weeks and I really hate it.
Traveling is the worst part of my job :/ At least I got a decent traveling allowance.
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On June 27 2011 12:03 phosphorylation wrote:
To the OP:
How difficult would it be for a guy with a bad-terrible GPA (think 3.3 ish) to break into a decent consulting firm (I am thinking ZS associates et al.)?
I am from a top school (think HYPS) and have bit unusual resume (no real internship though..)
I am pretty confident I can do well in interviews though.
I don't think i can help you there as i have no idea the equivalent of a 3.3GPA is in Australian terms. basic %s dictate that you need ~ 80%(high distinction) for all your university subjects to get through round 1 for all the top tiers.
On June 27 2011 12:03 The_LiNk wrote:
So in terms of travelling. Where have you consulting guys on TL gone to?
i travel mainly along the east coast Australia. so Melbourne-Sydney-Brisbane. Mel-Syd is the busiest air traffic route in the world! Syd-Bris is third
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My GF is a consultant based in Toronto, working for one of the top five you mentioned. She recently flew me to Beijing and soon to Mongolia because that's where her current project is.
It is nice that she gets to travel around and collect Starwood and Aeromile points, but it really sucks in that we so rarely see each other. IMO, it's really hard to have a stable relationship if you are a consultant because of the nomadic nature of the work, and it can get terrible "lonely" (according to her) because you don't have a real home, nor a proper network wherever your home may be.
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On June 27 2011 12:09 Ryshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 11:45 Doraemon wrote:On June 27 2011 11:40 Ryshi wrote:
I'm in this industry as a recent grad (Chartered Accounting), but it's quite depressing as I'm unable to find work.
I had only 1 interview from the big 4 accounting firms from campus recruiting, and I was unable to get in. Later I heard the recruiter (manager, not the HR) that interviewed me didn't hire a single student whereas another recruiter hired 4 students. I'm not sure was it because of bad luck that I selected that recruiter's slot or that the other 4 students were really superior. They only asked behavioral questions, although I was prepared for the questions mentioned in the OP. I will try again in september when they are recruiting.
For now, I have moved on to CFA, as that at least allows me to take exams. I'm hoping that when I pass level 1 or 2, I can land interviews easier.
If anyone can provide some comments on my progress or some tips to increase my chances of an interview that would be great. I currently just send cover letter, resume, and transcript to job posts from job sites and my university's career site. i think one thing people should realise is that over-qualification is a reality. you want to focus on the most basic skillsets that match the requirement of the employer. cover letter is important, don't bs on your resume (it will haunt you) but do embellish during interviews. i suppose it comes with practice, hope you get there mate, the market is picking up from what i heard. Thanks for the reply. By basic skill sets, do you mean soft skills listed like "Attention to detail", "Analytic", "Communication", etc.? Should I specifically list these on the resume? I do mention these in the cover letter by relating to an experience or in the description of a job of resume. Sorry for asking this question, I'm sure many websites would answer this if I just googled, but I would be more confident from your answer. Can I just ask if you know whether HR reads applications at all? I sometimes feel they don't even look at my application when I apply online. I feel my resume is quite impressive because whenever I go to a network event that looks at my resume, 70% of the time I get a call. Thanks!
depends on how large the firm is. boutique firms hire very specifically so they will read each applicants cover letter and resume, big firms will at time outsource HR and the first cut off point is your mark and not your cover letter. it really depends
by basic skills i mean excel skills, developing solutions, application of assumptions, your mannerism and enthusiasm during interviews. don't worry too much about your accreditation, worry about how you are perceived. you want them to know that you are capable and you will fit in.
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On June 27 2011 12:50 Cambium wrote:
My GF is a consultant based in Toronto, working for one of the top five you mentioned. She recently flew me to Beijing and soon to Mongolia because that's where her current project is.
It is nice that she gets to travel around and collect Starwood and Aeromile points, but it really sucks in that we so rarely see each other. IMO, it's really hard to have a stable relationship if you are a consultant because of the nomadic nature of the work, and it can get terrible "lonely" (according to her) because you don't have a real home, nor a proper network wherever your home may be.
yep. that's exactly what i meant by the movie "up in the air"
consultancy isn't a career you really want when you have a family.
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Thanks, I appreciate your response =)
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Consultants, for when your employees are under trained or untrustworthy. You guys have the most interesting jobs, a friend of mine joined a consulting firm and one month he was working with Halliburton, and the next he was working with Walmart. Never a dull day in the life of a consultant, plus you get a LOT of experience and contacts for when you want to become upper level management. I'm jealous!
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On June 27 2011 13:02 Endymion wrote:
Consultants, for when your employees are under trained or untrustworthy. You guys have the most interesting jobs, a friend of mine joined a consulting firm and one month he was working with Halliburton, and the next he was working with Walmart. Never a dull day in the life of a consultant, plus you get a LOT of experience and contacts for when you want to become upper level management. I'm jealous!
haha. you mentioned all the upside! but like others have said, there are some extreme downsides to it but working in all the various industries is definitely a plus!
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In terms of the top consulting companies OP mentioned, in America they only accept top Ivy (very hard to get in from bottom Ivy), MIT, Stanford. For regional offices they accept state schools (ie. U Texas for Dallas, Berkeley for Cali). One of the things that makes consultants so valuable is the air of knowledge, so having well educated people definitely helps. In a sense that's almost everything consultants bank on because many are career consultants and do not have any actual industry experience. So basically you have factory owners asking consultants how to improve factories, but they never worked in factories themselves. It takes the comfort of believing well educated folks will know better than you, similar to how Americans believe in Obama because he gives off the impression of being well educated.
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ahhaa. you are right sir we promote ourselves as all-knowing but in many instances some of us never had experience in that particular industry
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On June 27 2011 18:51 Doraemon wrote:ahhaa. you are right sir we promote ourselves as all-knowing but in many instances some of us never had experience in that particular industry
Which is why I never understand why your industry exists, you would think "well-educated" people would already be at the top of the food chain and wouldn't have to outsource for opinions on ventures or investments. My limited experience (from professors and my parents) with your brethren is that you're paid an exorbitant amount of money to come in to an exec's office after 2 weeks of learning an industry, then present a business plan (which more or less usually coincides with the exec's plan before he hired you). I mean I know it's always great to get a second opinion, but why not just ask lower down on the food chain in the company rather than asking some random person with a Harvard or Princeton education. I guess some executives use consultants more than others, I couldn't see myself hiring one though (when I'm in a position anywhere close to that power of course, this is like consulting a business student on a consultant's role in the corporate jungle t.t)
Do you find that most companies rehire consultants, or would they just prefer to hire the consultant straight onto staff?
Also, are you planning on sticking with the consultant track, or are you planning on eventually accepting an invitation to a big corporation? Why?
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Zurich15315 Posts
On June 27 2011 12:03 The_LiNk wrote:
So in terms of travelling. Where have you consulting guys on TL gone to?
For business most of my projects are still in Germany. To give you an idea I drive about 60k km a year within Germany. I have been to the US, England, Saudi, Bahrain, and the UAE as well.
I also do very short jobs remotely over phone/remote login with customers all over Europe (so far France, Sweden, Netherlands, Spain, Finnland, Switzerland, Austria, probably more), mostly squeezed inbetween bigger projects.
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A coworker at my past job got hired at Gemini Consulting. He was celebrating non-stop, even automatically got offered a Visa Infinite card (minim salary advised: 100 000€/year). Not bad at 28 years old.
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On June 27 2011 19:16 Endymion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 18:51 Doraemon wrote:ahhaa. you are right sir we promote ourselves as all-knowing but in many instances some of us never had experience in that particular industry Which is why I never understand why your industry exists, you would think "well-educated" people would already be at the top of the food chain and wouldn't have to outsource for opinions on ventures or investments. My limited experience (from professors and my parents) with your brethren is that you're paid an exorbitant amount of money to come in to an exec's office after 2 weeks of learning an industry, then present a business plan (which more or less usually coincides with the exec's plan before he hired you). I mean I know it's always great to get a second opinion, but why not just ask lower down on the food chain in the company rather than asking some random person with a Harvard or Princeton education. I guess some executives use consultants more than others, I couldn't see myself hiring one though (when I'm in a position anywhere close to that power of course, this is like consulting a business student on a consultant's role in the corporate jungle t.t)
This is the same impression i got from the consultants i met (software industry). Zero practical knowledge, zero experience but excellent in marketing themselves and their company. One of my predecessors left me several horribly developed projects when he got another, highly paid job as consultant and i can only feel for those that take any suggestions from him and drive their projects/companies into the next wall.
Too bad i'm an honest person -.-
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On June 27 2011 19:16 Endymion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 18:51 Doraemon wrote:ahhaa. you are right sir we promote ourselves as all-knowing but in many instances some of us never had experience in that particular industry Which is why I never understand why your industry exists, you would think "well-educated" people would already be at the top of the food chain and wouldn't have to outsource for opinions on ventures or investments. My limited experience (from professors and my parents) with your brethren is that you're paid an exorbitant amount of money to come in to an exec's office after 2 weeks of learning an industry, then present a business plan (which more or less usually coincides with the exec's plan before he hired you). I mean I know it's always great to get a second opinion, but why not just ask lower down on the food chain in the company rather than asking some random person with a Harvard or Princeton education. I guess some executives use consultants more than others, I couldn't see myself hiring one though (when I'm in a position anywhere close to that power of course, this is like consulting a business student on a consultant's role in the corporate jungle t.t) Do you find that most companies rehire consultants, or would they just prefer to hire the consultant straight onto staff? Also, are you planning on sticking with the consultant track, or are you planning on eventually accepting an invitation to a big corporation? Why?
what your professors and parents described is absolutely correct. To sum up my view of why corporates need consultants is this: senior managements needs to show to the board that they have ideas and ability to drive initiatives, there's none better than externals (consultants) to validate a CEO's opinions on something and win cookie points with the chairman. In essence, we are paid to say whatever will satisfy the project sponsor, which is the primary reason we get hired in the first place
what do you mean by rehire consultants? if you mean for phase 2 implementation? if so then it depends how well you convinced the company needs your firm for it. if you mean by poaching consultants into a full time industry role then that definitely happens, more than you would think. i've had 2 job offers in the last 6 months already.
i'm sticking with consulting until i get sick of it and/or i have enough experience to go into any industry i want. right now, industry looks like a terrible place and i wouldn't want to touch the politics with a 10 foot pole
On June 27 2011 20:07 Kukaracha wrote:
A coworker at my past job got hired at Gemini Consulting. He was celebrating non-stop, even automatically got offered a Visa Infinite card (minim salary advised: 100 000€/year). Not bad at 28 years old.
actually having a high credit limit is bad for your loan capacity, i told my bank to reduce my cc limit to as low as possible
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On June 27 2011 21:10 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 19:16 Endymion wrote:On June 27 2011 18:51 Doraemon wrote:ahhaa. you are right sir we promote ourselves as all-knowing but in many instances some of us never had experience in that particular industry Which is why I never understand why your industry exists, you would think "well-educated" people would already be at the top of the food chain and wouldn't have to outsource for opinions on ventures or investments. My limited experience (from professors and my parents) with your brethren is that you're paid an exorbitant amount of money to come in to an exec's office after 2 weeks of learning an industry, then present a business plan (which more or less usually coincides with the exec's plan before he hired you). I mean I know it's always great to get a second opinion, but why not just ask lower down on the food chain in the company rather than asking some random person with a Harvard or Princeton education. I guess some executives use consultants more than others, I couldn't see myself hiring one though (when I'm in a position anywhere close to that power of course, this is like consulting a business student on a consultant's role in the corporate jungle t.t) This is the same impression i got from the consultants i met (software industry). Zero practical knowledge, zero experience but excellent in marketing themselves and their company. One of my predecessors left me several horribly developed projects when he got another, highly paid job as consultant and i can only feel for those that take any suggestions from him and drive their projects/companies into the next wall. Too bad i'm an honest person -.-
heh, very common to perceive yourself as smarter than your superior, everyone does it. however, one thing i have seen and i think should be reverberated is:
you need to make friends with the right people or else you'll never climb that ladder. i have seen many instances where the CEO doesn't like a particularly staff regardless of his/her competency and that's where it ends. network well and get on the good books of the key players is the only way to go.
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On June 27 2011 21:25 Doraemon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 21:10 Morfildur wrote:On June 27 2011 19:16 Endymion wrote:On June 27 2011 18:51 Doraemon wrote:ahhaa. you are right sir we promote ourselves as all-knowing but in many instances some of us never had experience in that particular industry Which is why I never understand why your industry exists, you would think "well-educated" people would already be at the top of the food chain and wouldn't have to outsource for opinions on ventures or investments. My limited experience (from professors and my parents) with your brethren is that you're paid an exorbitant amount of money to come in to an exec's office after 2 weeks of learning an industry, then present a business plan (which more or less usually coincides with the exec's plan before he hired you). I mean I know it's always great to get a second opinion, but why not just ask lower down on the food chain in the company rather than asking some random person with a Harvard or Princeton education. I guess some executives use consultants more than others, I couldn't see myself hiring one though (when I'm in a position anywhere close to that power of course, this is like consulting a business student on a consultant's role in the corporate jungle t.t) This is the same impression i got from the consultants i met (software industry). Zero practical knowledge, zero experience but excellent in marketing themselves and their company. One of my predecessors left me several horribly developed projects when he got another, highly paid job as consultant and i can only feel for those that take any suggestions from him and drive their projects/companies into the next wall. Too bad i'm an honest person -.- heh, very common to perceive yourself as smarter than your superior, everyone does it. however, one thing i have seen and i think should be reverberated is: you need to make friends with the right people or else you'll never climb that ladder. i have seen many instances where the CEO doesn't like a particularly staff regardless of his/her competency and that's where it ends. network well and get on the good books of the key players is the only way to go.
That is where the "honest person" comes into play :p
If my superior or one of my colleagues has a stupid idea again, i suggest better solutions, even if it is in front of the other programmers. Doesn't make me friends, might cost my job someday, but it helps keep my professional pride intact and brings the company forward.
In the time i work here, the number of new bugs was reduced by a lot and we developed more features with a better architecture than in the years before i was in the company. I also started several initiatives to improve quality (development systems/free programming book library/a dedicated tester/...) eventhough i constantly run into a wall when i argue with my superiors about giving the programmers training because their 10-15 year old knowledge is almost useless these days.
I sometimes wish i was a consultant so they would listen and do the stuff i suggest instead of me having to introduce everything through the backdoor. Now if i only had a say in the recruiting so they wouldn't hire people who don't know the difference between "for" and "if", who don't try to link javascript into the website by using PHPs "include" and who don't try to assign a javascript variable to a PHP variable (real example i fixed a few weeks ago: <?php $url = document.href; ?>).
Sorry for the almost completely off-topic rant, having an annoying day at work again and the arguments i wanted to bring when i clicked on "reply" got eaten by anger -.-
PS: Can some of you consultants recommend the company i work for to promote me so i can fix this stuff? :p
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On June 27 2011 21:53 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 21:25 Doraemon wrote:On June 27 2011 21:10 Morfildur wrote:On June 27 2011 19:16 Endymion wrote:On June 27 2011 18:51 Doraemon wrote:ahhaa. you are right sir we promote ourselves as all-knowing but in many instances some of us never had experience in that particular industry Which is why I never understand why your industry exists, you would think "well-educated" people would already be at the top of the food chain and wouldn't have to outsource for opinions on ventures or investments. My limited experience (from professors and my parents) with your brethren is that you're paid an exorbitant amount of money to come in to an exec's office after 2 weeks of learning an industry, then present a business plan (which more or less usually coincides with the exec's plan before he hired you). I mean I know it's always great to get a second opinion, but why not just ask lower down on the food chain in the company rather than asking some random person with a Harvard or Princeton education. I guess some executives use consultants more than others, I couldn't see myself hiring one though (when I'm in a position anywhere close to that power of course, this is like consulting a business student on a consultant's role in the corporate jungle t.t) This is the same impression i got from the consultants i met (software industry). Zero practical knowledge, zero experience but excellent in marketing themselves and their company. One of my predecessors left me several horribly developed projects when he got another, highly paid job as consultant and i can only feel for those that take any suggestions from him and drive their projects/companies into the next wall. Too bad i'm an honest person -.- heh, very common to perceive yourself as smarter than your superior, everyone does it. however, one thing i have seen and i think should be reverberated is: you need to make friends with the right people or else you'll never climb that ladder. i have seen many instances where the CEO doesn't like a particularly staff regardless of his/her competency and that's where it ends. network well and get on the good books of the key players is the only way to go. That is where the "honest person" comes into play :p If my superior or one of my colleagues has a stupid idea again, i suggest better solutions, even if it is in front of the other programmers. Doesn't make me friends, might cost my job someday, but it helps keep my professional pride intact and brings the company forward. In the time i work here, the number of new bugs was reduced by a lot and we developed more features with a better architecture than in the years before i was in the company. I also started several initiatives to improve quality (development systems/free programming book library/a dedicated tester/...) eventhough i constantly run into a wall when i argue with my superiors about giving the programmers training because their 10-15 year old knowledge is almost useless these days. I sometimes wish i was a consultant so they would listen and do the stuff i suggest instead of me having to introduce everything through the backdoor. Now if i only had a say in the recruiting so they wouldn't hire people who don't know the difference between "for" and "if", who don't try to link javascript into the website by using PHPs "include" and who don't try to assign a javascript variable to a PHP variable (real example i fixed a few weeks ago: <?php $url = document.href; ?>). Sorry for the almost completely off-topic rant, having an annoying day at work again and the arguments i wanted to bring when i clicked on "reply" got eaten by anger -.- PS: Can some of you consultants recommend the company i work for to promote me so i can fix this stuff? :p
The business world isn't so black and white. A CEO isn't the smartest person in the company, he's the one who leads the company's direction to improve shareholder value. That means it's a balancing act with the board of directors, investors, research analysts, etc. Having reassurance from outside parties, especially one that has the appearance of knowledge, is extremely valuable.
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I'm a senior at Princeton and throughout the years, I've seen my upperclassmen friends go into consulting. I never really know what it's about and how they can consult people on things they don't know O_O;; how do you even have the confidence to consult people when you don't know anything about their work? How does that work?
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On June 27 2011 23:25 hazelynut wrote:
I'm a senior at Princeton and throughout the years, I've seen my upperclassmen friends go into consulting. I never really know what it's about and how they can consult people on things they don't know O_O;; how do you even have the confidence to consult people when you don't know anything about their work? How does that work?
the main reason is that the inefficiencies are very similar across all industries. company A will have similar problems as company B despite their different industries, as such, many solutions are transferable from client to client. consultants are good at diagnosing the problem and applying solutions, albeit something we don't have excessive experience in, but what we do well is identification and application.
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United States10774 Posts
Thanks for your informative post. Many older friends from my university will be working at the top consulting firms you named (BCG, McKinsey, etc) and I have wondered what that lifestyle would be like. I guess if there's a right time to be a consultant, it would be in your 20s. Travel a lot, meet people and establish resourceful connections. Would you want to share one or two anecdotes about some memorable projects you have had? Where did it take place and what kind of work did you have to do?
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On June 28 2011 11:54 OneOther wrote:
Thanks for your informative post. Many older friends from my university will be working at the top consulting firms you named (BCG, McKinsey, etc) and I have wondered what that lifestyle would be like. I guess if there's a right time to be a consultant, it would be in your 20s. Travel a lot, meet people and establish resourceful connections. Would you want to share one or two anecdotes about some memorable projects you have had? Where did it take place and what kind of work did you have to do?
i think the project i had that's best represents consulting is an insurance project that i did few months back. they had a very inefficient claims review process and we were brought in to fix that and report anything else we observe. my colleague and i has had 0 experience in insurance, albeit we advertised ourselves as specialists in the field. i had to travel mel-bris every week and mel-bris-syd-mel every second week, so the travelling was quite hectic and started to dread sunday nights and monday mornings. the work wasn't very difficult because the solutions were simple, however the roadblocks are common symptoms of a dysfunctional organisation; the project sponsor that hired us already had solutions in his head and we were really there to validate his ideas. The politics were insane, the COO disliked some very intelligent staff and held them back, the project leader was a wanker and undermined us at every opportunity, everyone hated IT (beyond the usual cliche), the business units were pillared and had no idea how to collaborate with other teams and individuals with personal agendas tried to drive our deliverables to be favourable for them. so it was a very tricky project, but we managed to find a solid base with a very helpful business unit and they offered me a job 4 weeks in and we managed to get everything done. still waiting to hear back from them to see if they want us to implement phase 2 for them. hahaha.
so yer, kind made me hate industry!
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EPT
