• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:22
CEST 17:22
KST 00:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror4[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)74Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4) SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup Back to SC2 after 14 years - Protoss CTRL groups?
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Grand Finals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) SC2 INu's Battles#21 [ 3-Days tournament ]
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble
Brood War
General
20-year-old Valorant player starting StarCraft Sagi.gg Launcher Released BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Fantasy returning? BSL Season 23
Tourneys
[ASL22] Semifinal B [ASL22] Semifinal A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Dating: How's your luck? Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9334 users

Struggles vs Zerg?

Blogs > Davidxcom
Post a Reply
Davidxcom
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Germany94 Posts
May 26 2011 10:45 GMT
#1
Phew its blogging time again! (:

Well recently I have been struggling against Zergs and on this Forum this seems to be a no-no as a Protoss. In Gold/Platinum league and with the past metagame it was pretty easy to overwhelm them with either earlygame pressure and a finisher with mass Gateways for a decisive push or a straight up macro game with a Colossus timing or a 200 deathball. But now after reaching Masters and holding up constant in the middle of my division for about 1~2 Weeks I realized that my stats against Zerg are becoming worse and worse. I mostly succeed in the PvP matchup with decent Micro and a Variety of overall gameplans that became viable after the patch so this isn't an issue. My PvT is pretty solid too and I win like 50-50 but my PvZ really has me worried. The following is about my recent struggles and possible solutions. Any hints you have to offer are appreciated as well.


Vs Zerg in Diamond:


That was the beginning of an uphill battle against Zerg for me. I came from the Platin league with one solid build (the 3-Gate expand) and a variety of different cheesy strats (Like DT, and proxy Voidray) but all the cheesy stuff stopped working when I reached the Diamond level. Constant scouting, correct evaluations about my armysize/composition made it hard to even attempt a cheesy opener because my opponents usually could tell that something was coming and with an evo-chamber and a simple sporecrawler all my cheese was thwarted.
So I had to go with my back up solid build the 3-Gate expand. This resulted in an gradual increase of my win percentage vs Zerg because the current Metagame heavily favored Protoss. Nearly every Zerg was using the old "Zergball" with Hydra/Roach + Corrupter. So my Deathball became mighty effective and my macroskill in PvZ skyrocket in comparison to my Platin-macro.
(In regard of PvZ cheese I got pretty lucky, that I never got cheesed with 6-pool until Diamond league)
Basically I traded my diversity in BO's against one solid build that I practiced for hours and helped me climb up to the upper echelons of my division. The problem that arised with that is that I got pretty inflexible. As soon as my Zergopponent thought out of the box and did something unexpected I became vulnerable and my play became sloppy. The further I got in Diamond the more I was confronted with the concept of different BO's that didn't only revolve around Hydra/Roach. The first time I was owned with burrowed Roaches that moved under my priced FF's I literally was like "The fuck?"
That inflexibility made me loose many points against Zergs and again the Matchup became and Uphill battle where I was slowly sliding down (Creepspread sure made the way up pretty difficult ^_^)
Back to the drawingboard I considered for a moment to go back to my little magicbox and pull out the cheese moves from time to time, but this was after all what hindered me at the start of my Diamond "career" so I quickly discarded it and left myself with the task to watch the Pro's and try to think outside the box. I didn't need more BO's or cheese, I needed the ability to interpret information correct and respond accordingly so that my I could fix my solid but stiff/rigid play.
After watching replays and Streams I managed it to get a bit into the routine to think about what the pro might have been thinking and it helped me tremendously to interpret different signs and catch my opponent offguard before he even revealed his trumpcard.
With that, my decent PvP and my standard PvT I finally managed to get into Masters.


Vs Zerg in Masters:


Happily I played with my Deathballstyle and some of the skills I acquired in Diamond but again I got a pretty bad awakening that it won't go the way I thought. The patch came and the Metagame changed. So basically Zerg got several Options and while the Deathball is still strong, I believe that Zerg got pretty viable counters.
With the Patch and the ideas of some Zerg pioneers the matchup became my worst. Even with micro and if I know that it is coming, I got steamrolled every time by Infestor/Blingdrop/Lings or Roaches. That late/mid game composition has me troubled more times than I can count but it isn't my only problem. Because I didn't got cheesed much until Masters I was pretty unfamiliar with the issue of 6-Pool. That in cooperation with the lategame composition and the highly aggressive Zergstyle's at the beginning with mass Zergs and Roaches made my Winration vs Zerg shrink to a number which is probably around 20% or something like this.

Right now I am considering what to do and I am back to the drawing board again. Well just wanted to write that down (:
If you got any hint I would highly appreciate it. (Can't afford coaching.)


****
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ "Sup Son?" ~SeleCT
TheSubtleArt
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada2527 Posts
May 26 2011 11:15 GMT
#2
Maybe it's just your opponents being better rather than your opponents being Zerg? If its just 1 particular matchup you're struggling ith and your preformance in the other matchups remains up to par, then consider spending some time playing as Zerg and understanding the match up from the other play's perspective.
Dodge arrows
Vlare
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
748 Posts
May 26 2011 11:19 GMT
#3
I find PvZ to be pretty easy until you're playing top notch zergs, and even then its manageable. You just have to scout and respond properly, You can't give zerg free reign over the entire map etc.

Maybe if you had replays or something I could help you. Or if you bugged me ingame
Mass zerglings doesnt fail
Bartiemus
Profile Joined June 2010
New Zealand84 Posts
May 26 2011 13:50 GMT
#4
You should check out testers games in the GSL super tournament for some ideas in build orders. He always does some crazy stuff in his games I have been using them with great success now that all Zerg seem to do is the Roach Zergling all in I pretty much win by build order.
Id rather just kill you and call it a day.
Davidxcom
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Germany94 Posts
May 26 2011 16:36 GMT
#5
Thank you!

@TheSubtleArt
This should not be seen as a whine, I just wrote it down because until now I managed to improve my gameplan after some thinking and serious practice. I thought it might be helpful for players who are currently in Gold/Platin/Diamond and have the same problems I had to struggle with. I believe that I can usually tell if my opponent is better then me and I do recognize good play so if I get completely dismantled by superior play I don't try to blame it on Zerg. I think many people like to classify posts about struggling against a certain race as a whine or blaming it on imbalance, but this is not always the case. Playing as a Zerg does seem like a possibility so I can understand my enemy from within. Didn't even occur to me until you mentioned it ^_^ So thx

@Vlare
Well it isn't easy for me. I think I scout properly and also can interpret it but even if I know its coming, I got huge troubles against the mentioned Builds and Styles of Zerg. I believe that I have the fundamentals of the Matchup down, but its the fineplay in higher masters that sometimes makes it troublesome. The next rep I get will be attached to the blog and thx for the offer I might take you up on it.

@Bartiemus
I actively watch the GSL but I do not search for completely different BO's or cheesy Stuff. I haven't actually watched his games but I you got me interested. A counter against Roach/Zergling rush would be highly appreciated by me.

Again thank you for your time and responds (:
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ "Sup Son?" ~SeleCT
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8h 38m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech141
UpATreeSC 3
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 5124
Bisu 2805
Soulkey 1748
Jaedong 715
Horang2 577
EffOrt 539
Mini 508
Larva 344
actioN 290
ZerO 272
[ Show more ]
ggaemo 239
Yoon 150
Mind 96
Dewaltoss 89
sorry 82
Sea.KH 77
Sharp 75
Shinee 67
hero 66
Barracks 62
Pusan 57
Snow 51
Hyun 42
Bale 35
ToSsGirL 27
Trap 21
scan(afreeca) 20
Rock 17
NaDa 15
Terrorterran 15
Sacsri 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
Noble 8
zelot 7
Dota 2
Gorgc5426
qojqva2303
Dendi1201
420jenkins209
Counter-Strike
fl0m2836
Fnx 665
x6flipin431
Other Games
hiko914
Liquid`RaSZi897
B2W.Neo504
crisheroes313
DeMusliM281
XBOCT213
Livibee192
Liquid`VortiX182
QueenE99
Mew2King46
ZerO(Twitch)18
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream33
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 80
• mYiSmile133
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 42
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV644
League of Legends
• Nemesis3477
• TFBlade568
• Noizen108
Other Games
• Shiphtur344
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
8h 38m
Patches Events
1d
The PondCast
1d 18h
INu's Battles
1d 19h
Percival vs TBD
Zoun vs herO
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
OSC
3 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Patches Events
4 days
[ Show More ]
BSL Open Qualifier
5 days
BSL Open Qualifier
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSB
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
HCC Season 3
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.