• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:27
CEST 12:27
KST 19:27
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver4[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down0StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon98Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?178Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament KSL Week #92
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice
Brood War
General
Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon? New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery! [D] Brainstorming a balance patch for Brood war Making an Online Broodwar Manager Game [ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group D [ASL22] Ro16 Group C [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro16 Group B
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation Diablo IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread UK Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Virtual Romance, Real-Life C…
TrAiDoS
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7727 users

Struggles vs Zerg?

Blogs > Davidxcom
Post a Reply
Davidxcom
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Germany94 Posts
May 26 2011 10:45 GMT
#1
Phew its blogging time again! (:

Well recently I have been struggling against Zergs and on this Forum this seems to be a no-no as a Protoss. In Gold/Platinum league and with the past metagame it was pretty easy to overwhelm them with either earlygame pressure and a finisher with mass Gateways for a decisive push or a straight up macro game with a Colossus timing or a 200 deathball. But now after reaching Masters and holding up constant in the middle of my division for about 1~2 Weeks I realized that my stats against Zerg are becoming worse and worse. I mostly succeed in the PvP matchup with decent Micro and a Variety of overall gameplans that became viable after the patch so this isn't an issue. My PvT is pretty solid too and I win like 50-50 but my PvZ really has me worried. The following is about my recent struggles and possible solutions. Any hints you have to offer are appreciated as well.


Vs Zerg in Diamond:


That was the beginning of an uphill battle against Zerg for me. I came from the Platin league with one solid build (the 3-Gate expand) and a variety of different cheesy strats (Like DT, and proxy Voidray) but all the cheesy stuff stopped working when I reached the Diamond level. Constant scouting, correct evaluations about my armysize/composition made it hard to even attempt a cheesy opener because my opponents usually could tell that something was coming and with an evo-chamber and a simple sporecrawler all my cheese was thwarted.
So I had to go with my back up solid build the 3-Gate expand. This resulted in an gradual increase of my win percentage vs Zerg because the current Metagame heavily favored Protoss. Nearly every Zerg was using the old "Zergball" with Hydra/Roach + Corrupter. So my Deathball became mighty effective and my macroskill in PvZ skyrocket in comparison to my Platin-macro.
(In regard of PvZ cheese I got pretty lucky, that I never got cheesed with 6-pool until Diamond league)
Basically I traded my diversity in BO's against one solid build that I practiced for hours and helped me climb up to the upper echelons of my division. The problem that arised with that is that I got pretty inflexible. As soon as my Zergopponent thought out of the box and did something unexpected I became vulnerable and my play became sloppy. The further I got in Diamond the more I was confronted with the concept of different BO's that didn't only revolve around Hydra/Roach. The first time I was owned with burrowed Roaches that moved under my priced FF's I literally was like "The fuck?"
That inflexibility made me loose many points against Zergs and again the Matchup became and Uphill battle where I was slowly sliding down (Creepspread sure made the way up pretty difficult ^_^)
Back to the drawingboard I considered for a moment to go back to my little magicbox and pull out the cheese moves from time to time, but this was after all what hindered me at the start of my Diamond "career" so I quickly discarded it and left myself with the task to watch the Pro's and try to think outside the box. I didn't need more BO's or cheese, I needed the ability to interpret information correct and respond accordingly so that my I could fix my solid but stiff/rigid play.
After watching replays and Streams I managed it to get a bit into the routine to think about what the pro might have been thinking and it helped me tremendously to interpret different signs and catch my opponent offguard before he even revealed his trumpcard.
With that, my decent PvP and my standard PvT I finally managed to get into Masters.


Vs Zerg in Masters:


Happily I played with my Deathballstyle and some of the skills I acquired in Diamond but again I got a pretty bad awakening that it won't go the way I thought. The patch came and the Metagame changed. So basically Zerg got several Options and while the Deathball is still strong, I believe that Zerg got pretty viable counters.
With the Patch and the ideas of some Zerg pioneers the matchup became my worst. Even with micro and if I know that it is coming, I got steamrolled every time by Infestor/Blingdrop/Lings or Roaches. That late/mid game composition has me troubled more times than I can count but it isn't my only problem. Because I didn't got cheesed much until Masters I was pretty unfamiliar with the issue of 6-Pool. That in cooperation with the lategame composition and the highly aggressive Zergstyle's at the beginning with mass Zergs and Roaches made my Winration vs Zerg shrink to a number which is probably around 20% or something like this.

Right now I am considering what to do and I am back to the drawing board again. Well just wanted to write that down (:
If you got any hint I would highly appreciate it. (Can't afford coaching.)


****
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ "Sup Son?" ~SeleCT
TheSubtleArt
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada2527 Posts
May 26 2011 11:15 GMT
#2
Maybe it's just your opponents being better rather than your opponents being Zerg? If its just 1 particular matchup you're struggling ith and your preformance in the other matchups remains up to par, then consider spending some time playing as Zerg and understanding the match up from the other play's perspective.
Dodge arrows
Vlare
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
748 Posts
May 26 2011 11:19 GMT
#3
I find PvZ to be pretty easy until you're playing top notch zergs, and even then its manageable. You just have to scout and respond properly, You can't give zerg free reign over the entire map etc.

Maybe if you had replays or something I could help you. Or if you bugged me ingame
Mass zerglings doesnt fail
Bartiemus
Profile Joined June 2010
New Zealand84 Posts
May 26 2011 13:50 GMT
#4
You should check out testers games in the GSL super tournament for some ideas in build orders. He always does some crazy stuff in his games I have been using them with great success now that all Zerg seem to do is the Roach Zergling all in I pretty much win by build order.
Id rather just kill you and call it a day.
Davidxcom
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Germany94 Posts
May 26 2011 16:36 GMT
#5
Thank you!

@TheSubtleArt
This should not be seen as a whine, I just wrote it down because until now I managed to improve my gameplan after some thinking and serious practice. I thought it might be helpful for players who are currently in Gold/Platin/Diamond and have the same problems I had to struggle with. I believe that I can usually tell if my opponent is better then me and I do recognize good play so if I get completely dismantled by superior play I don't try to blame it on Zerg. I think many people like to classify posts about struggling against a certain race as a whine or blaming it on imbalance, but this is not always the case. Playing as a Zerg does seem like a possibility so I can understand my enemy from within. Didn't even occur to me until you mentioned it ^_^ So thx

@Vlare
Well it isn't easy for me. I think I scout properly and also can interpret it but even if I know its coming, I got huge troubles against the mentioned Builds and Styles of Zerg. I believe that I have the fundamentals of the Matchup down, but its the fineplay in higher masters that sometimes makes it troublesome. The next rep I get will be attached to the blog and thx for the offer I might take you up on it.

@Bartiemus
I actively watch the GSL but I do not search for completely different BO's or cheesy Stuff. I haven't actually watched his games but I you got me interested. A counter against Roach/Zergling rush would be highly appreciated by me.

Again thank you for your time and responds (:
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ "Sup Son?" ~SeleCT
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Afreeca Starleague
10:00
Ro16, Group D
Snow vs Shinee
Shine vs EffOrt
Afreeca ASL 11087
StarCastTV_EN302
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 9131
Bisu 4912
Jaedong 1596
Leta 1199
BeSt 1104
Horang2 449
Hyuk 432
Hyun 330
Pusan 327
Light 277
[ Show more ]
Zeus 269
Mini 249
Larva 225
Soulkey 193
Stork 141
ZerO 134
Barracks 97
Rush 88
PianO 66
soO 50
Killer 49
ToSsGirL 43
sSak 35
Bale 27
Sexy 19
sorry 15
SilentControl 15
Terrorterran 14
Sacsri 14
JYJ 13
JulyZerg 12
scan(afreeca) 9
Hm[arnc] 9
Britney 0
Dota 2
ODPixel421
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1537
shoxiejesuss1019
zeus177
x6flipin150
kRYSTAL_56
edward55
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King107
Other Games
Grubby6241
singsing2033
Lowko163
Pyrionflax135
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick964
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 191
Other Games
BasetradeTV38
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 8
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 47
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 14
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1862
• Stunt419
Other Games
• WagamamaTV197
Upcoming Events
GSL
34m
PiGosaur Cup
13h 34m
The PondCast
23h 34m
Kung Fu Cup
1d
Replay Cast
1d 13h
KCM Race Survival
1d 23h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
GSL
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
GSL
5 days
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
5 days
Spirit vs Mixu
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-14
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Calamity Invitational
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.