• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:59
CEST 20:59
KST 03:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)10[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th156Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0
StarCraft 2
General
TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 2026 Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners High level ptr replays? where can I find them? StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th
Tourneys
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) GSL Code S Season 2 (2026)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 530 One For All The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected
Brood War
General
Where is EffOrt? BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
Cara Refund Tiket Agoda The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Does Workplace Frustration D…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8183 users

Struggles vs Zerg?

Blogs > Davidxcom
Post a Reply
Davidxcom
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Germany94 Posts
May 26 2011 10:45 GMT
#1
Phew its blogging time again! (:

Well recently I have been struggling against Zergs and on this Forum this seems to be a no-no as a Protoss. In Gold/Platinum league and with the past metagame it was pretty easy to overwhelm them with either earlygame pressure and a finisher with mass Gateways for a decisive push or a straight up macro game with a Colossus timing or a 200 deathball. But now after reaching Masters and holding up constant in the middle of my division for about 1~2 Weeks I realized that my stats against Zerg are becoming worse and worse. I mostly succeed in the PvP matchup with decent Micro and a Variety of overall gameplans that became viable after the patch so this isn't an issue. My PvT is pretty solid too and I win like 50-50 but my PvZ really has me worried. The following is about my recent struggles and possible solutions. Any hints you have to offer are appreciated as well.


Vs Zerg in Diamond:


That was the beginning of an uphill battle against Zerg for me. I came from the Platin league with one solid build (the 3-Gate expand) and a variety of different cheesy strats (Like DT, and proxy Voidray) but all the cheesy stuff stopped working when I reached the Diamond level. Constant scouting, correct evaluations about my armysize/composition made it hard to even attempt a cheesy opener because my opponents usually could tell that something was coming and with an evo-chamber and a simple sporecrawler all my cheese was thwarted.
So I had to go with my back up solid build the 3-Gate expand. This resulted in an gradual increase of my win percentage vs Zerg because the current Metagame heavily favored Protoss. Nearly every Zerg was using the old "Zergball" with Hydra/Roach + Corrupter. So my Deathball became mighty effective and my macroskill in PvZ skyrocket in comparison to my Platin-macro.
(In regard of PvZ cheese I got pretty lucky, that I never got cheesed with 6-pool until Diamond league)
Basically I traded my diversity in BO's against one solid build that I practiced for hours and helped me climb up to the upper echelons of my division. The problem that arised with that is that I got pretty inflexible. As soon as my Zergopponent thought out of the box and did something unexpected I became vulnerable and my play became sloppy. The further I got in Diamond the more I was confronted with the concept of different BO's that didn't only revolve around Hydra/Roach. The first time I was owned with burrowed Roaches that moved under my priced FF's I literally was like "The fuck?"
That inflexibility made me loose many points against Zergs and again the Matchup became and Uphill battle where I was slowly sliding down (Creepspread sure made the way up pretty difficult ^_^)
Back to the drawingboard I considered for a moment to go back to my little magicbox and pull out the cheese moves from time to time, but this was after all what hindered me at the start of my Diamond "career" so I quickly discarded it and left myself with the task to watch the Pro's and try to think outside the box. I didn't need more BO's or cheese, I needed the ability to interpret information correct and respond accordingly so that my I could fix my solid but stiff/rigid play.
After watching replays and Streams I managed it to get a bit into the routine to think about what the pro might have been thinking and it helped me tremendously to interpret different signs and catch my opponent offguard before he even revealed his trumpcard.
With that, my decent PvP and my standard PvT I finally managed to get into Masters.


Vs Zerg in Masters:


Happily I played with my Deathballstyle and some of the skills I acquired in Diamond but again I got a pretty bad awakening that it won't go the way I thought. The patch came and the Metagame changed. So basically Zerg got several Options and while the Deathball is still strong, I believe that Zerg got pretty viable counters.
With the Patch and the ideas of some Zerg pioneers the matchup became my worst. Even with micro and if I know that it is coming, I got steamrolled every time by Infestor/Blingdrop/Lings or Roaches. That late/mid game composition has me troubled more times than I can count but it isn't my only problem. Because I didn't got cheesed much until Masters I was pretty unfamiliar with the issue of 6-Pool. That in cooperation with the lategame composition and the highly aggressive Zergstyle's at the beginning with mass Zergs and Roaches made my Winration vs Zerg shrink to a number which is probably around 20% or something like this.

Right now I am considering what to do and I am back to the drawing board again. Well just wanted to write that down (:
If you got any hint I would highly appreciate it. (Can't afford coaching.)


****
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ "Sup Son?" ~SeleCT
TheSubtleArt
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada2527 Posts
May 26 2011 11:15 GMT
#2
Maybe it's just your opponents being better rather than your opponents being Zerg? If its just 1 particular matchup you're struggling ith and your preformance in the other matchups remains up to par, then consider spending some time playing as Zerg and understanding the match up from the other play's perspective.
Dodge arrows
Vlare
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
748 Posts
May 26 2011 11:19 GMT
#3
I find PvZ to be pretty easy until you're playing top notch zergs, and even then its manageable. You just have to scout and respond properly, You can't give zerg free reign over the entire map etc.

Maybe if you had replays or something I could help you. Or if you bugged me ingame
Mass zerglings doesnt fail
Bartiemus
Profile Joined June 2010
New Zealand84 Posts
May 26 2011 13:50 GMT
#4
You should check out testers games in the GSL super tournament for some ideas in build orders. He always does some crazy stuff in his games I have been using them with great success now that all Zerg seem to do is the Roach Zergling all in I pretty much win by build order.
Id rather just kill you and call it a day.
Davidxcom
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Germany94 Posts
May 26 2011 16:36 GMT
#5
Thank you!

@TheSubtleArt
This should not be seen as a whine, I just wrote it down because until now I managed to improve my gameplan after some thinking and serious practice. I thought it might be helpful for players who are currently in Gold/Platin/Diamond and have the same problems I had to struggle with. I believe that I can usually tell if my opponent is better then me and I do recognize good play so if I get completely dismantled by superior play I don't try to blame it on Zerg. I think many people like to classify posts about struggling against a certain race as a whine or blaming it on imbalance, but this is not always the case. Playing as a Zerg does seem like a possibility so I can understand my enemy from within. Didn't even occur to me until you mentioned it ^_^ So thx

@Vlare
Well it isn't easy for me. I think I scout properly and also can interpret it but even if I know its coming, I got huge troubles against the mentioned Builds and Styles of Zerg. I believe that I have the fundamentals of the Matchup down, but its the fineplay in higher masters that sometimes makes it troublesome. The next rep I get will be attached to the blog and thx for the offer I might take you up on it.

@Bartiemus
I actively watch the GSL but I do not search for completely different BO's or cheesy Stuff. I haven't actually watched his games but I you got me interested. A counter against Roach/Zergling rush would be highly appreciated by me.

Again thank you for your time and responds (:
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ "Sup Son?" ~SeleCT
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
16:00
#56
RotterdaM1297
TaKeTV 494
TKL 425
SteadfastSC213
IndyStarCraft 204
BRAT_OK 148
ZombieGrub88
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1297
TKL 425
SteadfastSC 213
IndyStarCraft 204
BRAT_OK 148
UpATreeSC 89
ProTech89
ZombieGrub88
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 719
Free 44
Hyun 41
Shine 15
GoRush 13
Counter-Strike
fl0m9022
zeus533
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King85
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu313
MindelVK9
Other Games
gofns43518
tarik_tv11182
Grubby3223
Trikslyr1697
Beastyqt707
FrodaN596
B2W.Neo594
C9.Mang0189
KnowMe184
QueenE66
Tefel4
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream3018
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 155
• StrangeGG 48
• EnkiAlexander 39
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix17
• 80smullet 15
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade864
Other Games
• imaqtpie719
• WagamamaTV273
Upcoming Events
OSC
5h 1m
ByuN vs Shameless
PiGosaur Cup
1d 5h
The PondCast
2 days
OSC
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
GSL
4 days
Maru vs ShoWTimE
Classic vs Reynor
herO vs Lambo
Solar vs Clem
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
5 days
XuanXuan vs Jaystar
Mihu vs Messiah
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs Jaystar
TerrOr vs Messiah
XuanXuan vs Mihu
eOnzErG vs Jaystar
Replay Cast
5 days
GSL
5 days
Patches Events
5 days
[ Show More ]
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
6 days
Dewalt vs Messiah
Bonyth vs Mihu
TerrOr vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs Messiah
Jaystar vs Mihu
Dewalt vs XuanXuan
Bonyth vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
6 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - GSB
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
Murky Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
BCC 2026
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.