I'm not sure why but all the people are suddenly complaining about the lack of foreigner competition. It was like this since day one, so why now? Even the people in Korea are feeling the pressure. I know the people at GOM are trying so hard but it's not their fault. Foreigners aren't as good as Koreans, that's why they decline. Of the foreign players competing in GSL, most of them already got knocked down to Code A.

Xeris himself, in his essay, essentially describes foreigners as Code A material. Then goes on about how Code A prizes should increase, so foreigners can make more money, etc etc. A Korean pro such as MKP, July, Clide, etc isn't even thinking about Code A. To them, Code S is where they rightfully belong, and winning 50,000,000 won is their goal. Meanwhile, foreigners are fighting for the scraps, $100 here, $500 there, while their fans demand Korea pay them more for less skill.

Here is the money ranking: http://ehcg.djgamblore.com/events.php

GSL may code S has a prize pool of $121,000, Code A $12,000 prize pool, GSTL $13,000. I'm pretty sure if you add up all the SC2 tournaments around the world in May, it will be much less than this number. Take out the once-in-a-blue-moon TSL and it will be even more lopsided.

What is prevalent in the foreigner scene though, is the number of invitationals and show-matches. Basically easy events where players are seeded and are guaranteed placement. These players got there mainly due to name brand recognition. In Korea, Boxer is Code A. Internationally, he'd be getting invitationals and show-matches everywhere. Does this mean that he's good? I'd put many foreigners in this category.

The foreign player with the highest tournament winnings, Sjow, made $29,000 in total. The best Koreans make 5x as much. Realistically, gaming celebrities should stay out of Korea while gaming geniuses should flock to it. Korea is the place to be to challenge others based on skill, not e-fame, and make the most money while doing so. I know many of you want to see your invitational/show-match heroes play in Korea. So urge them to get better and go there. GOM is already flying them out and helping them find a place to stay. Just don't expect easy handouts, because in Korea, skill is what pays the bills. I wouldn't have it any other way.

----------------

** It's important to note that in Western countries, many players can make more money from sponsorships, and fame-related activities than they do from actual gaming results. For the purposes of skill and the spirit of competition, only gaming results are considered.

*** Thanks to the guy running and updating that money ranking blog. This blog seems like it would cooperate well with the TL Tournament Round-up people.

turdburgler

England6749 Posts

May 22 2011 15:36 GMT

are you trying to say that some people who are on 'pro' teams arent that good?!?!

madness: D

Primadog

United States4411 Posts

May 22 2011 15:37 GMT

It's actually fairly easy to find out how much prize money is available roughly in the foreigner scene each monthly.

~$51,228 USD (+ Prizes!) Tournament Roundup - May 1-15 2011
~$41,295 USD (+ Prizes!) Tournament Roundup - Apr 15-30 2011

So roughly there's $92k in prize money total in the scene outside of Korea in the past month (4/16-5/15). In comparison, GSL has around $140k in a two month period (ie there's no GSL April or GSL June).

I do not believe I am an expert in evaluating which scene has stronger players, so will withhold from commenting on that.

bmml

United Kingdom962 Posts

May 22 2011 15:43 GMT

I'm not sure what your overall point is but from what I feel you're basically calling out foreigners who dont go to Korea because for some reason they want fame and not money/prestige?

Koreans are good sure, but really with the infrastructure they have there (with the home turf advantage) it seems completely pointless for foreigners who aren't looking to relocate completely to even bother with GSL. You limit yourself in regards to competition and I imagine can't get THAT much better without the support of a team training environment.

edit: nvm you're basically saying non Koreans are shit compared to Koreans, all my above points still apply and I can't help but think you just don't understand how much players have to give up to spend extended periods of time in Korea and even if they go they will most likely not be playing their best due to the fact they would be in a vastly different country.

eXigent.

Canada2419 Posts

May 22 2011 15:45 GMT

On May 23 2011 00:29 vnlegend wrote:
I'm not sure why but all the people are suddenly complaining about the lack of foreigner competition. It was like this since day one, so why now? Even the people in Korea are feeling the pressure. I know the people at GOM are trying so hard but it's not their fault. Foreigners aren't as good as Koreans, that's why they decline. Of the foreign players competing in GSL, most of them already got knocked down to Code A.

Xeris himself, in his essay, essentially describes foreigners as Code A material. Then goes on about how Code A prizes should increase, so foreigners can make more money, etc etc. A Korean pro such as MKP, July, Clide, etc isn't even thinking about Code A. To them, Code S is where they rightfully belong, and winning 50,000,000 won is their goal. Meanwhile, foreigners are fighting for the scraps, $100 here, $500 there, while their fans demand Korea pay them more for less skill.

Here is the money ranking: http://ehcg.djgamblore.com/events.php

GSL may code S has a prize pool of $121,000, Code A $12,000 prize pool, GSTL $13,000. I'm pretty sure if you add up all the SC2 tournaments around the world in May, it will be much less than this number. Take out the once-in-a-blue-moon TSL and it will be even more lopsided.

What is prevalent in the foreigner scene though, is the number of invitationals and show-matches. Basically easy events where players are seeded and are guaranteed placement. These players got there mainly due to name brand recognition. In Korea, Boxer is Code A. Internationally, he'd be getting invitationals and show-matches everywhere. Does this mean that he's good? I'd put many foreigners in this category.

The foreign player with the highest tournament winnings, Sjow, made $29,000 in total. The best Koreans make 5x as much. Realistically, gaming celebrities should stay out of Korea while gaming geniuses should flock to it. Korea is the place to be to challenge others based on skill, not e-fame, and make the most money while doing so. I know many of you want to see your invitational/show-match heroes play in Korea. So urge them to get better and go there. GOM is already flying them out and helping them find a place to stay. Just don't expect easy handouts, because in Korea, skill is what pays the bills. I wouldn't have it any other way.

----------------

** It's important to note that in Western countries, many players can make more money from sponsorships, and fame-related activities than they do from actual gaming results. For the purposes of skill and the spirit of competition, only gaming results are considered.

*** Thanks to the guy running and updating that money ranking blog. This blog seems like it would cooperate well with the TL Tournament Round-up people.

Nice writeup, however there are certainly problems pertaining to the prize money in the GSL. First off, you cannot say code A is a 13,000 investment for a foreigner, as first place is only $1,400 (not even the cost of the plane fare to get there). With all of the stiff competition in code a, the chance of actually winning is very low. So in the end you have a *slight* chance at winning and recieving only 2/3rds of your plane fare to korea. That means even though you WON code A, you are still out money just for going there.

Now take code S, sure the prize is huge, but at the same time so are the top korean competitors that seem to continually win it. There have only been 4 winners and 3 of them have won it twice. In a foreigners eyes , he needs to be able to not only compete with these top 3 korean kings (MC/MVP/Nestea) but also have the confidence to beat them (which very very few people can claim to have). On top of those giants, you have tons of very skilled korean players capable of ending your run at any point (including the ro32),

So for a foreigner to spend the 3Kish it costs to get to korea and then invest a full month into 1 tournament that he *most likely* will not win is pretty crazy in most players eyes. You can compete in 15-20 online cups from europe/NA in the comfort of your own home, and still make roughly the same amount you would if you invested money into flying to korea, and possibly attaining a top 4 finish.

Logically it just doesnt make sense to do this. However I feel that this could most certainly be changed quite easily. If blizzard could somehow find a way to make cross realm play possible without tons of lag then im pretty certain that tons of foreigners would goto korea for the free room and board, compete in the GSL during the day, and then at night still be able to play in online cups from europe and NA. The ability to still play these events would allow players to win money while investing a month into the GSL, and not have to worry about only being in 1 tournament with tons of pressure to perform or end up broke with no money for the rest of the month, if not longer.

Thats just my 2cents anyway, thanks for reading!

Scorch

Austria3371 Posts

May 22 2011 16:05 GMT

I don't think skill is the determining factor. There are a handful of foreigners who I'd say could consistently stay in Code S, like Idra, Sen, White-Ra or Naniwa, and quite a few who could compete in Code A. There are other reasons why foreigners don't want to compete in Korea:

- It is very difficult to qualify for Code A (ST_Bomber only managed it this season for example)
- While you are in Korea, it is hard to participate in foreign online events (lag and timezones)
- There are no other tournaments in Korea, so if you are eliminated, you have to wait a month to play
- Korean prize distribution is very top-heavy, only very few make big money
- Travelling to and living in Korea is a large financial commitment and requires lots of organization
- Not everyone is willing or able to leave friends and family behind, and in some cases a job or university
- Some don't want to live in a culturally totally different country where barely anyone even speaks English
- Foreign tournaments are more numerous and easier to win

Overall, the risk of going to Korea and failing just outweighs the possible benefits. Making a living off of SC2 is easier and more secure in Europe or America. This is also why Idra forfeited his Code S spot.

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