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Getting really aggravated with all the fucking all-ins in diamond. Just 1 base or 2 base mass up, push. Losing to Terran over and over because they 3 base turtle and mass thors and massive tanks, and then Protoss just keeps doing the zealo/archon build which absolutely crushes me. I had just came up with an amazing style, I even made a guide in teh strat forum, on how to beat the late Protoss deathball style where they mass Colossi with Void Rays or stalkers, or replace colossi with templars. Even stalker immortal, I owned it with ling/infestor into bling, np, and ultras.
Now archon/zealot just absolutey hard counters my build, in early game, in mid game, in late game. It rolls me so hard, really sucks. Then ZvZ is just all-in crap from everyone.
Ugh. My match history is all losses on front page except 1 win against someone who tried to went 3 gate expo into fast colossi and I denied his expo, so I made roaches for the first time in forever in ZvP and won that. He was plat.
Just sucks, I've been trying to take some advice from that "the end of the discussion on zerg openings" or whatever. I usually go 14gas 14 pool Spanishiwa style to hold immortal pushes and deny stupid thirds and waste sentry energy with speedlings, and 14 gas 14 pool later hatch in ZvZ to be safe and prevent fast expos, and been trying the 11 pool 14 gas instead with that. Failing badly, I don't know if it's the opening or what. I'm just really pissy, especially considering everyone is just so damn BM on bnet.
It's also stupidly annoying I can't scout them. Siege tank pushes, hellions, banshees, 3 gate robos...
 
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are you actually artosis?
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On May 18 2011 17:19 annul wrote:
are you actually artosis?
This lol...
You are going to be cheesed at every level, everyone says "as soon as I got in to X from Y I got cheesed non stop it's so gay I am such a good player but I am getting held back by my opponents waaaaaa". Just get over it and learn to scout.
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6 pool is the answer!
If you want to lose more until you get better without losing ladder points, you can add me and we can practice.
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well its nice that you developed your own build in ZvP but zerg is still a reactionary race and you can't play the same build regardless whats your opponent is doing.
Some advice for the early game:
ZvP: I tried Spanishiwa, but its bad on higher levels if you don't posses the amazing mutlitasking to use ling drops + infestors to harrass in the midgame. So i would recommend you doing a standard 14g/14pool. Especially because with 14g/p you can punish every 3gate sentry expanding protoss very hard with an early ling/roach push. If the enemy goes for zealot+archon just build mass roaches amd lough while you are killing them.
ZvZ: If you want to play safe, then go for 14g/p and expand yourself if your enemy is going for hatch first or immidiatly tech to roaches if he is 1base too. You are safe against any bane opening, and if he is doing a mass ling opening you can block your ramp, produce mass roaches +1 and go kill him.
ZvT: Safest Build is 16 Hatch/15pool. Take one gas at 17. Build 2 Queens and immidiatly a spine crawler at your natural, no matter what. 100 Gas Speed Upgrade, build evo (so you are safe against Banshees too) and research +1 melee. Build a third queen and a roach warren. (Probably you won't build any roaches, but just for the case he is secretly massing hellions or blue flame it enables you to react in time). Thats what i do in every ZvT regardless of scouting and it really is working out.
In General: Scouting is most important as zerg. You have to scout constantly! In midgame send every 40 seconds one zergling and check his army composition in every mu. In ZvZ you need to know if he is building drones or army, because you immidiatly need to respond. In ZvP you need to know what tech he is using. Fly in constantly with an overseer! In ZvT with the extreme options a terran has, scout scout scout. you get to lair easily with my advice above and then scouting is easy.
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lol, i think people just took the word "all-in" and ran with it. Whenever I see someone lose it's always due to "cheese" or "allin" which is what people say to justify their loss.
I've went on 13 loss streak in 2v2 and never complained so please son man up and admit the truth
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I 6 pooled and lost lol.
ZvP: I tried Spanishiwa, but its bad on higher levels if you don't posses the amazing mutlitasking to use ling drops + infestors to harrass in the midgame. So i would recommend you doing a standard 14g/14pool. Especially because with 14g/p you can punish every 3gate sentry expanding protoss very hard with an early ling/roach push. If the enemy goes for zealot+archon just build mass roaches amd lough while you are killing them.
I know that's what I said I do - I do 14 gas 14 pool with a Spanishiwa style (4-6 queens, late gas, spines). I go ling/infestor into ling/bling/infestor/ultra and it just rocks ZvP, but the recent zealot/archon is just trashing it.
ZvZ: If you want to play safe, then go for 14g/p and expand yourself if your enemy is going for hatch first or immidiatly tech to roaches if he is 1base too. You are safe against any bane opening, and if he is doing a mass ling opening you can block your ramp, produce mass roaches +1 and go kill him.
I know that's what I said I do, I've been doing 11 pool 14 gas because of this thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=202464¤tpage=6
Because apparently 11 pool 14 gas is the same but better in every way.
ZvT: Safest Build is 16 Hatch/15pool. Take one gas at 17. Build 2 Queens and immidiatly a spine crawler at your natural, no matter what. 100 Gas Speed Upgrade, build evo (so you are safe against Banshees too) and research +1 melee. Build a third queen and a roach warren. (Probably you won't build any roaches, but just for the case he is secretly massing hellions or blue flame it enables you to react in time). Thats what i do in every ZvT regardless of scouting and it really is working out.
I know that's what I said I do, but I've been trying 14 hatch 15 pool because of that same thread saying it's the same but better in every way. IMO speedlings are too late to stop early pressure so I dont get speedlings until 40ish. I get double evo, and depending on what I scout I may go for spores. Roaches if I scout factory play.
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Learn to scout better and improve your macro.
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stop thinking about the game in terms of build orders and unit compositions and start to problem solve for yourself.
These 'strategies' you are playing against are probably going to be easiest to defeat by doing something equally ridiculous yourself. Don't feel like you have to play 'macro' or 'standard' but just make sure what you are doing has a purpose and makes sense in the context of the game you are currently playing.
The fact that you have not already worked out that roaches (and possibly banelings) are going to stomp zealot archon make me feel as if you could benefit a lot by some experimentation and free play to actually learn the game for yourself, rather than regurgitate the same strategies you were spoonfed or even developed yourself.
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All losing games. Fucking soooo aggravating. Thor/Marine/SCV 1 base all in, I just assumed mass marine I couldn't scout at all because he had marines making sure nothing got in and had a 2nd gas geyser halted and I couldn't tell if he was going to tech or just was preventing gas steal. Then another person DT rushes and it's obvious, and he just masses stalkers and wins against me trying to rush roach against him.
The fact that you have not already worked out that roaches (and possibly banelings) are going to stomp zealot archon make me feel as if you could benefit a lot by some experimentation and free play to actually learn the game for yourself, rather than regurgitate the same strategies you were spoonfed or even developed yourself.
I wrote a guide with a composition and strategy that was unheard of, ling/infestor/bling/ultra, I'm not regurgitating anything.
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1. why would someone take 2 gas, or try to stop you stealing their second gas if they were going mass marines?
2. the counter to mass marines and mass thor should be quite similar (lots of banelings and zerglings that can either slow move on creep or have speed upgraded)
So i conclude that you:
Did not use your brain to predict the situation given a huge ammount of scouting information (2 geyers!)
And you did not even respond to the siutation that you assumed properly.
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I was rank 1... now im rank 42. I've lost every single game for 2 pages now.
1. why would someone take 2 gas, or try to stop you stealing their second gas if they were going mass marines?
2. the counter to mass marines and mass thor should be quite similar (lots of banelings and zerglings that can either slow move on creep or have speed upgraded)
So i conclude that you:
Did not use your brain to predict the situation given a huge ammount of scouting information (2 geyers!)
And you did not even respond to the siutation that you assumed properly.
1. To prevent scouting. Not uncommon for people to halt on 2nd gas to prevent steal?
2. Banelings for thor all in?
I conclude you are trolling given that I couldn't scout.
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On May 18 2011 20:19 Belial88 wrote:
I was rank 1... now im rank 42. I've lost every single game for 2 pages now.
1. To prevent scouting. Not uncommon for people to halt on 2nd gas to prevent steal?
2. Banelings for thor all in?
I conclude you are trolling given that I couldn't scout.
1. You conclude that he is going mass marine because he takes 2 gas and is trying to trick you? That's way too meta man. Care to post the replay of that game?
2. Against marines and repairing scvs, yes. Then speedlings clean up the 2/3 thors.
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 That sucks.
I understand you're venting but why don't you post a replay pack so people can see what is going on?
Maybe 2 games of each matchup? Then everyone would be able to offer better advice.
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He didn't take 2 gas, he took 1 and halted the other when I went to gas steal.
^Thanks, just losing to people doing 1 or 2 base all-in turtle styles and it's just kind of catching me off guard. Also losing a lot of ridiculous games where I totally hold something stupid like 4gate or 2 rax all in and I can't push back before they cannon up or make a friggin planetary and win. Almost always some ridiculous map, I had close positions on delta quadrant, played against a 2rax and had more trouble than I should have because so far from natural and main (nothing bad, was prepared, just annoying) and then they make a planetary at gold betwen us, or close shattered temple or slag and they 4 gate void or something stupid and then cannon up and win with 2 base push.
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EPT
