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I live in Quebec, Canada, and I've been on Teamliquid.net for a little bit. In "real life", I haven't really had the chance to argue about many important topics with people as my friends and most of the people I talk to agree with me. If we're to bring up topics like abortion, almost everyone is pro-choice as apparently we're morally superior (sorry!).
I know that the rest of Canada, and even the rest of Quebec, can be very different from the values most have in this town. There have been many big topics over the last few months and I was surprised to see how many TL users seem to be very much in favor of capital punishment and even physical torture to criminals.
Currently, there's a thread on general forums about a man who defaced a woman with acid. Today, he's supposed to get blinded by the government of Iran. An absolutely frightening number of teamliquid users are in support of that disgusting punishment. But what was even worse to me is that I always thought of "my country" as an advanced society - one beyond that kind of barbaric BS. However, I notice that many, many Canadians are in favor of this. The thread is absolutely clogged with comments from people from Canada saying "I like that legal system" and "he should suffer more".
I'm not into nationalism, I don't care for it one bit. I don't relate to Canadians more than I relate to Australians or Zimbabweans or people from any other country. However, I'll admit that I feel a bit of shame. I shouldn't since we merely share a landmass, but part of me is ashamed anyway - or at the very least I'm incredibly disappointed.
A part of me still believes and hopes that people who are posting on those threads don't represent the opinion of TL. I guess the more civilized people kind of gave up.
Regardless, I'm posting this because in recent years, I've been discovering that Canada is not what I imagined it to be. Funny that I made so many assumptions about my own country and I was so awfully wrong... It's weird.
I'm very sad about it. Oh well. Just wanted to vent a little.
Edited for redundancy.
  
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Indeed, us Canadians are fucked up people eh?
I've never really noticed any serious things that make Canadians stand out which puts us on a different level than any other country to be honest.
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Well, there is a disparity of opinions where certain people want the man who destroyed the life of a woman by throwing acid on her face to get away with it and there are some people that want justice to be served so the woman may at least relish in the fact that the guy who destroyed her life didnt get away with it.
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On May 15 2011 06:28 Daimai wrote:
Well, there is a disparity of opinions where certain people want the man who destroyed the life of a woman by throwing acid on her face to get away with it and there are some people that want justice to be served so the woman may at least relish in the fact that the guy who destroyed her life didnt get away with it.
I think you are misrepresenting the argument. People who object to the punishment aren't saying that the guy shouldn't be punished, but rather, the punishment of being blinded is barbaric and imprudent. Having a punishment of an extended period of jail time would be more practical and 'just' in this sense.
As to these sorts of topics though, I never understand how one is supposed to respond to those sorts of topics. Of course the punishment is a bit severe and inconsistent with how Canadians or any other nation would punish their criminals, but what else is there to be said? I recall there was a thread yesterday about someone being beheaded in Tenerife. Of course, that is an awful occurrence, but there is nothing else to be said about it - it happened, it is bad, hopefully they catch the killer. I feel like that is why you see alot more extreme views in those threads because most posters simply have nothing to say on those topics.
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I think it's barabaric too.
Heres the thing. I think the original crime was even more barbaric and it gets perpatrated a lot in that part of the world. Now normally honour killings and disfigurements meet with a *nudge nudge wink wink* don't do it again kind of attitude. This means the would be perpatrators don't really have a big dis-incentive to do it. At worst they were in for a judicial slap on the wrist.
Now a terryfying example is being made of a perpatrator. If you step back from the individual case and look at the "big" picture, this is going to act as a massive deterrant to those who considered doing it. In one fell swoop this has probably saved scores of women from the same fate.
Yes its barbaric but I believe more good will come of this than harm because of the reasons I stated above. I don't like comments like "he should suffer more" but in principle I think the punishment will achieve more than a custodial sentence. If this makes me one of the people that ashames you then so be it.
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I'm pretty sure that attitude is an American problem, swapping over to Canada obviously. Inhuman behavior towards criminals, enemies or minorities never seems to have been even debatable there, where it's standard in more (insert word that would get me warned for sure) parts of the world.
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On May 15 2011 06:36 Deja Thoris wrote:
I think it's barabaric too.
Heres the thing. I think the original crime was even more barbaric and it gets perpatrated a lot in that part of the world. Now normally honour killings and disfigurements meet with a *nudge nudge wink wink* don't do it again kind of attitude. This means the would be perpatrators don't really have a big dis-incentive to do it. At worst they were in for a judicial slap on the wrist.
Now a terryfying example is being made of a perpatrator. If you step back from the individual case and look at the "big" picture, this is going to act as a massive deterrant to those who considered doing it. In one fell swoop this has probably saved scores of women from the same fate.
Yes its barbaric but I believe more good will come of this than harm because of the reasons I stated above. I don't like comments like "he should suffer more" but in principle I think the punishment will achieve more than a custodial sentence. If this makes me one of the people that ashames you then so be it.
Deterrence is an important factor in any sort of punishment, but it should not be the only factor. Looking at this example, would a 10-year jail sentence be any less of a deterrent than being blinded? Even if it is less of a deterrent, it wouldn't be much less - nobody would willingly commit the crime given the consequences.
Furthermore, if we only look at deterrence and as you say " If you step back from the individual case and look at the "big" picture, this is going to act as a massive deterrant to those who considered doing it." then we can make extreme statements like: "why not kill all criminals? that would deter crime". The punishment in any case regardless of circumstance must be the proper and just one, not based on retribution, but based on a humane and proportional punishment.
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On May 15 2011 06:36 FeiLing wrote:
I'm pretty sure that attitude is an American problem, swapping over to Canada obviously. Inhuman behavior towards criminals, enemies or minorities never seems to have been even debatable there, where it's standard in more (insert word that would get me warned for sure) parts of the world.
Pretty much hit the nail on the head. Some people just cant imagine them selfs in another persons shoes. It really isn't hard to become a criminal in the u.s.. uncle had sex with a woman who was 4 years younger.. Bam 2 years in prison and a registered sex offender for life.
oh and she lied about her age. wut can u do
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United States24670 Posts
On May 15 2011 06:50 VPCursed wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 06:36 FeiLing wrote:
I'm pretty sure that attitude is an American problem, swapping over to Canada obviously. Inhuman behavior towards criminals, enemies or minorities never seems to have been even debatable there, where it's standard in more (insert word that would get me warned for sure) parts of the world. Pretty much hit the nail on the head. Some people just cant imagine them selfs in another persons shoes. It really isn't hard to become a criminal in the u.s.. uncle had sex with a woman who was 4 years younger.. Bam 2 years in prison and a registered sex offender for life. oh and she lied about her age. wut can u do
Yeah I've always wondered about this.
"Hey baby let me see some ID before we get started."
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On May 15 2011 06:53 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 06:50 VPCursed wrote:On May 15 2011 06:36 FeiLing wrote:
I'm pretty sure that attitude is an American problem, swapping over to Canada obviously. Inhuman behavior towards criminals, enemies or minorities never seems to have been even debatable there, where it's standard in more (insert word that would get me warned for sure) parts of the world. Pretty much hit the nail on the head. Some people just cant imagine them selfs in another persons shoes. It really isn't hard to become a criminal in the u.s.. uncle had sex with a woman who was 4 years younger.. Bam 2 years in prison and a registered sex offender for life. oh and she lied about her age. wut can u do Yeah I've always wondered about this. "Hey baby let me see some ID before we get started."
Theres also a law in maine where you cant have sex with a drunk woman.. i haven't looked at the finer details but i found it amusing.
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United States24670 Posts
On May 15 2011 06:56 VPCursed wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 06:53 micronesia wrote:On May 15 2011 06:50 VPCursed wrote:On May 15 2011 06:36 FeiLing wrote:
I'm pretty sure that attitude is an American problem, swapping over to Canada obviously. Inhuman behavior towards criminals, enemies or minorities never seems to have been even debatable there, where it's standard in more (insert word that would get me warned for sure) parts of the world. Pretty much hit the nail on the head. Some people just cant imagine them selfs in another persons shoes. It really isn't hard to become a criminal in the u.s.. uncle had sex with a woman who was 4 years younger.. Bam 2 years in prison and a registered sex offender for life. oh and she lied about her age. wut can u do Yeah I've always wondered about this. "Hey baby let me see some ID before we get started." Theres also a law in maine where you cant have sex with a drunk woman.. i haven't looked at the finer details but i found it amusing..
"Hey baby blow into this thing for me real quick."
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On May 15 2011 06:50 VPCursed wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 06:36 FeiLing wrote:
I'm pretty sure that attitude is an American problem, swapping over to Canada obviously. Inhuman behavior towards criminals, enemies or minorities never seems to have been even debatable there, where it's standard in more (insert word that would get me warned for sure) parts of the world. Pretty much hit the nail on the head. Some people just cant imagine them selfs in another persons shoes. It really isn't hard to become a criminal in the u.s.. uncle had sex with a woman who was 4 years younger.. Bam 2 years in prison and a registered sex offender for life. oh and she lied about her age. wut can u do
What? I don't understand how the anecdote has anything to do with the quoted post
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On May 15 2011 06:21 Djzapz wrote:
An absolutely frightening number of teamliquid users are in support of that disgusting punishment.
Morally superior are we?
On May 15 2011 06:21 Djzapz wrote:
But what was even worse to me is that I always thought of "my country" as an advanced society - one beyond that kind of barbaric BS. However, I notice that many, many Canadians are in favor of this. The thread is absolutely clogged with comments from people from Canada saying "I like that legal system" and "he should suffer more".
The difference being that the society that is mentioned in the story is vastly different from the societies commenting on it. It's almost like you're condoning the guy's actions and that's a disturbing thought.
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Human beings aren't that advanced, really. I mean, we got to the top of the food chain by beating the hell out of competing caveman species back in the day. That kind of aggressive nature will be in our blood for many millions of years. That's why suicide rates in neutral countries like Switzerland tend to be pretty high. People need conflict in their lives to feel human.
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On May 15 2011 07:34 divito wrote:It's almost like you're condoning the guy's actions and that's a disturbing thought.
The thought may be disturbing because it's not even remotely close to reality.
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The reason you should be more confident, generally, in your own opinion than the opinion of others, is that you are fully aware only of your opinion and the basis for it. If there are reasons to believe what someone else does instead, you don't know what they are, and it must be said that it seems more likely, given what you know, that you are right. However if you spend so little time defining your own position and your own reasons that you have little to say besides "you're clearly wrong, and I'm very put off by it," then you are really not any more aware of the legitimacy of your own point of view than you are of others. There's nothing wrong with being confident that you're right, but confidence under such circumstances is not rational.
Perhaps you should take this new diversity of outside opinions you've discovered as an opportunity to hone your own, since now you know you can't always depend on just being able to state your opinion for its face value and have people aknowledge your intelligence automatically. You have to work harder than that to convince most strangers that you know what you're talking about, as you should have to work harder to convince yourself.
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That's got nothing to do with it though, I have no problems myself. I'm merely disappointed to see that Canadians are like this.
I could also write an essay dismantling their position using my moral standards and it'd be great, especially if I could write it in French, but then very few would read it - and many people would dismiss it as it's subjective in that having a government which murders people is perfectly acceptable if you're a beast.
Obviously I'm being blunt and I'm not building the argument here, but you know what I mean.
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And I feel sad when I go into a local university discothek, and see young people (the future of the nation, the ones in whom we are "investing" billions in public funds, the agents of progress) behaving like Neanderthals and badly-strung marionettes. I am certain that not a few of them profess enlightened views on justice, abortion, torture, and nationalism, and perhaps some of them even share those views on tl.net
So you see, the real barbarian at the gates is not out there in Iran or Texas. If you want to vent at him, you need go no further than look in the mirror.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
It's funny how westerners think non-western ways of doing things are "barbaric" or inferior. Non-westerners probably think the same way about how westerners handle certain things.
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On May 15 2011 08:24 MoltkeWarding wrote:
behave like Neanderthals and badly-strung marionettes.
you sound so incredibly bitter. it's literally leaking through my computer screen.
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EPT
