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Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
May 13 2011 20:30 GMT
#1
This started as a PM that I wrote to an SC2 fan who'd been interested in BW vods; he was a little put off by Jaedong and Flash repeatedly kicking each other in the shins. I think it would be good if this message reached a wider SC2 audience though. The TL;DR:
Here are some better vods. Exchanging awesome vods between fanbases > flaming between fanbases.
(Yeah, you know the thread I'm talking about.)
I'm directing this message to the BW community, but especially to the SC2 community, at large:

~~~~~

If you're interested in watching BW vods, you should definitely know that Flash vs JD is not the best place for a new viewer. Flash and JD are a cut above the rest and tend to play very standard against the field, but against one another they use so many mind games that 90% of their games are over before they start. The two players are very even --- I think the record stands at 21-21 if you count just the main leagues --- but the games themselves tend to be lopsided.
BW fans themselves have often been disappointed by how many superhyped Flash vs Jaedong games are decided by proxies/timing rushes/greed openings/etc. They just play like that against each other; perhaps because they know each other so well.
But don't give up! There are a lot of entertaining games out there that a new viewer can enjoy. I'd like to point you to a few. First, some "real" Flash vs Jaedong:

1. [Flash vs Jaedong @ Grand Line, WCG Korea finals 2010]

[Very long, epic, be warned that the ending gets a little slow but it's interesting throughout]

2. [Flash vs Jaedong @ Odd-Eye, "Power Outage" MSL finals 2010]
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/35159_Flash_vs_Jaedong/vod
[Amazing game before the power goes out. This tournament became infamous.]

3. [Flash vs Jaedong @ Rush Hour, Winner's League 2009 playoffs, KTF vs OZ]
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/11567_Flash_vs_Jaedong/vod
[Lots of action and blood. Jaedong has taken down 3 of KTF's players back-to-back --- can he complete the all-kill or will Flash block him and reverse all-kill?]

Here are some games that show why Flash is "God Young Ho." Partly it's because he wrecks anyone who tries to proxy him --- nobody has brainhacks like him (unless it's Boxer). But I'm not including all those games, they're not too fun to watch unless you're already a Flash fan. These are games that show Flash's dominance against the "normal" field.

4. [Flash vs Kwanro @ Roadrunner, Winner's League 2010]
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/36209_Flash_vs_Kwanro/vod
[Flash thinks Kwanro is going mutas, and gets massacred by lurkers instead. He then goes into god mode and makes a ridiculous comeback.]

5. [Flash vs Best @ Fortress, Proleague 2010]
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/50120_BeSt_vs_Flash/vod
[Flash lost to Best (a top PvT'er) in their previous encounter. In this revenge match Flash chose to crush him with a strategy so micro-intensive and demanding that it's never even been *attempted* before or since.]

Finally, here are some random games that I remember as being good.

6. [Fantasy vs Stork @ Outsider, Bacchus OSL 2009 Ro16]
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/16843_Fantasy_vs_Stork/vod
[Just a wicked PvT. I remember there being a lot of harassment and drop play.]

7. [Hiya vs Stork @ Gladiator, Bacchus OSL 2010 Ro8]
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/50634_HiyA_vs_Stork/vod
[I understand there are no reavers in SC2. Under the direction of Stork they are incredible to watch! Hiya is using a strong timing push here.]

8. [Fantasy vs Jaedong @, Bacchus OSL 2009 Semifinals]
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/27100_Fantasy_vs_Jaedong/vod
[Fantasy and Jaedong had a terrific rivalry in 2009. Fantasy 2-0'd Jaedong in the Proleague Grand Finals, essentially assuring SKT's victory, but in return Jeadong overcame Fantasy 3-2 and 3-1 in two of his OSL championships. This game comes from Jaedong's golden mouse run.]

9. [Savior vs Iris @ Neo Arkanoid, Shinhan OSL 2006 Semifinals]
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/1664_Iris_vs_sAviOr/vod
[That's right, 2006. This was one of the first BW games I watched so I remember it fondly. This is the deciding game of a tense teamkill Bo5. Savior was one of the greatest Zerg players, eclipsed only by Jaedong, but he's not mentioned much anymore because he shafted everyone in the match-fixing scandal. I haven't seen the game in a while, so I'm not sure how it stands up to the others in terms of absolute skill level, but it's a fun watch.]

Well there you go. This is the tip of the iceberg --- I could easily rattle off 20 to 30 (40? 50?) other favorite games but finding the vods takes time. Also I'm deliberately avoiding short/rush games --- not because they're bad but because these games here show more. A lot of rush games have amazing micro though.

I don't see any reason why BW and SC2 fans shouldn't enjoy both. I'm not very familiar with SC2; you can probably tell I'm kind of a die-hard BW fan. I'm sure I'll always like BW more than SC2. But both games have a lot to recommend them and both fanbases could be a lot better collectively about sharing what aspects of the game they enjoy.

So if you have any favorite SC2 vods you can shoot them my way, or post them here, and I will make sure to watch 'em!

PS: It's kind of criminal that I didn't include any Bisu vods. Sorry, I guess I'm a Flash/Jaedong fanboy. Just watch any Bisu PvZ, it's art.

~~~~~

Thanks guys. I'll come back later. If I get any cool SC2 vods to watch, I'll be happy; and if any SC2-only fans out there see this and get a taste of BW too, I'll be happy. 'Til then!

****
May the BeSt man win.
Phyrigian
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
New Zealand1332 Posts
May 13 2011 20:32 GMT
#2
--- Nuked ---
bobbob
Profile Joined December 2009
United States368 Posts
May 13 2011 20:40 GMT
#3
Just do the original bisu vs savior and watch savior have no clue how to deal with a revolutionary build.
NukeTheStars
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States277 Posts
May 13 2011 20:44 GMT
#4
I've always thought the best BW gateway is a good series, not just individual games. Like Iris vs. GGPlay OSL finals, or Jaedong vs. Fantasy OSL finals. Good stuff.
GGQ
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada2653 Posts
May 13 2011 20:51 GMT
#5
You dont have any Bisu versus Zerg, which is what makes BW for me!
n.DieJokes
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3443 Posts
May 13 2011 20:59 GMT
#6
NaDa vs Jangbi needs to be in here. I can't think a better series to introduce bw plus it features NaDa who's recognized in Sc2
MyLove + Your Love= Supa Love
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11752 Posts
May 13 2011 21:00 GMT
#7
Boxer vs Yellow, triple bunker rush is a great introduction.
soujiro_
Profile Joined June 2010
Uruguay5195 Posts
May 13 2011 21:03 GMT
#8
really vs kwanro or light vs tempest are quite epic
ace hwaiting!!
clusen
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany8702 Posts
May 13 2011 21:06 GMT
#9
You should add GomTV-VODs imo.

There are some really nice games in the first 2 seasons, and they are casted by Tasteless at his absolute best which should be enough to make any SC2-fan interested.
happyft
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States470 Posts
May 13 2011 21:08 GMT
#10
Thanks for this!

As an SC2 only player, I find BW to be really fascinating (of the only several vods I've watched so far) -- especially on how its TvZ is very similar, yet very different from SC2's TvZ. For instance, BW Z takes gas much later than SC2 Z in this matchup, and gets a very fast third (macro hatch) as a result -- because speedlings seem a lot stronger, and the rush distance feels like cross position? Overall the matchup feels a lot more stable in BW, since zerg can hold off any 2-base terran attack with lurker and tech safely to deflier. There just doesn't feel like there's any "safe" equivalent in SC2, the closest thing I can think of is speed banelings, but terrain, army positioning and micro heavily heavily influence how successful a SC2 Z can hold off a T push, whereas in BW it looks like the Z doesn't have to go absolutely nuts, just muta harass + cutoff reinforcements to buy time to get lurker, and things proceed smoothly from there.
mucker
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States1120 Posts
May 13 2011 21:10 GMT
#11
For me it is all about Bisu vs Yellow on HBR when I introduce people to BW. Not because the gameplay itself is all that super amazing but because the excitement of the crowd is so incredible it really shows how great BW is as a spectator sport and how passionately people can feel about it. Even if you don't really know the players you can't help but get excited watching that game.
It's supposed to be automatic but actually you have to press this button.
ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
May 13 2011 21:13 GMT
#12
Where are the games where Jaedong dominates noobs

These are all good games though. Remember them all but one of them. Watching now :D
Jaedong :3
wrags
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States379 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 21:29:54
May 13 2011 21:13 GMT
#13
8. [Fantasy vs Jaedong @, Bacchus OSL 2009 Semifinals]
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/27100_Fantasy_vs_Jaedong/vod
[Fantasy and Jaedong had a terrific rivalry in 2009. Fantasy 2-0'd Jaedong in the Proleague Grand Finals, essentially assuring SKT's victory, but in return Jeadong overcame Fantasy 3-2 and 3-1 in two of his OSL championships. This game comes from Jaedong's golden mouse run.]


from one of the series he came back from.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/11723_Fantasy_vs_Jaedong/vod

still blown away at the timing at 6 mins in the vod

also, if someone could help me remember the game i'm thinking of, it's been bothering me for a while. zvt, can't remember the terran (i want to say forgg but i know that's not right) game was on sin chupung and jaedong ended up doing 2 hatch muta with 2 control groups of muta.
setzer
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3284 Posts
May 13 2011 21:26 GMT
#14
Bisu vs Jaedong on Blue Storm and GGplay vs Iris are two that are sorely missing from this.

Overall, yeah this is a pretty good starter list.
Brad`
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada548 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 21:31:48
May 13 2011 21:31 GMT
#15
On May 14 2011 06:13 wrags wrote:
Show nested quote +
8. [Fantasy vs Jaedong @, Bacchus OSL 2009 Semifinals]
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/27100_Fantasy_vs_Jaedong/vod
[Fantasy and Jaedong had a terrific rivalry in 2009. Fantasy 2-0'd Jaedong in the Proleague Grand Finals, essentially assuring SKT's victory, but in return Jeadong overcame Fantasy 3-2 and 3-1 in two of his OSL championships. This game comes from Jaedong's golden mouse run.]


from one of the series he came back from.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/11723_Fantasy_vs_Jaedong/vod

still blown away at the timing at 6 mins in the vod

also, if someone could help me remember the game i'm thinking of, it's been bothering me for a while. zvt, can't remember the terran (i want to say forgg but i know that's not right) game was on sin chupung and jaedong ended up doing 2 hatch muta with 2 control groups of muta.

ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
May 13 2011 21:35 GMT
#16
On May 14 2011 06:13 wrags wrote:
Show nested quote +
8. [Fantasy vs Jaedong @, Bacchus OSL 2009 Semifinals]
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/27100_Fantasy_vs_Jaedong/vod
[Fantasy and Jaedong had a terrific rivalry in 2009. Fantasy 2-0'd Jaedong in the Proleague Grand Finals, essentially assuring SKT's victory, but in return Jeadong overcame Fantasy 3-2 and 3-1 in two of his OSL championships. This game comes from Jaedong's golden mouse run.]


from one of the series he came back from.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/11723_Fantasy_vs_Jaedong/vod

still blown away at the timing at 6 mins in the vod

also, if someone could help me remember the game i'm thinking of, it's been bothering me for a while. zvt, can't remember the terran (i want to say forgg but i know that's not right) game was on sin chupung and jaedong ended up doing 2 hatch muta with 2 control groups of muta.


Yea at 6 minutes in that VOD...it just goes to show how much preparation a player goes into a game with after hundreds of games practiced just for the 1 game. Its pretty amazing ^^

Highly recommended :D
Jaedong :3
wrags
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States379 Posts
May 13 2011 21:38 GMT
#17
On May 14 2011 06:31 Brad` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2011 06:13 wrags wrote:
8. [Fantasy vs Jaedong @, Bacchus OSL 2009 Semifinals]
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/27100_Fantasy_vs_Jaedong/vod
[Fantasy and Jaedong had a terrific rivalry in 2009. Fantasy 2-0'd Jaedong in the Proleague Grand Finals, essentially assuring SKT's victory, but in return Jeadong overcame Fantasy 3-2 and 3-1 in two of his OSL championships. This game comes from Jaedong's golden mouse run.]


from one of the series he came back from.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/11723_Fantasy_vs_Jaedong/vod

still blown away at the timing at 6 mins in the vod

also, if someone could help me remember the game i'm thinking of, it's been bothering me for a while. zvt, can't remember the terran (i want to say forgg but i know that's not right) game was on sin chupung and jaedong ended up doing 2 hatch muta with 2 control groups of muta.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QHUB0DJj3A


YES TY
zawk9
Profile Joined March 2011
United States427 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 21:56:30
May 13 2011 21:52 GMT
#18
Very awesome game of old Brood War legend Yellow taking down Bisu against the odds with very old school tactics on Heartbreak Ridge. One of my personal favorites since I started watching BW. That it was a ZvP makes it all the more incredible.



English Commentary from Klazart Here (Warning: Very unique style of commentary)

Edit:

On May 14 2011 06:10 mucker wrote:
For me it is all about Bisu vs Yellow on HBR when I introduce people to BW. Not because the gameplay itself is all that super amazing but because the excitement of the crowd is so incredible it really shows how great BW is as a spectator sport and how passionately people can feel about it. Even if you don't really know the players you can't help but get excited watching that game.


Totally agreed! I've shown it to friends who couldn't care less about Starcraft and they enjoyed it. I managed to get a very good friend who I talk sports with interested in Brood War/SC2 through it. The crowd's roar as Yellow takes down the current generations PvZ star is something to behold.
there's a bug in the new patch where the other player keeps killing all my dudes.. please nerf this
e_i_pi_1_0
Profile Joined September 2009
933 Posts
May 13 2011 22:01 GMT
#19
For FvJ games, I would also recommend Jaedong vs Flash on Tau Cross from WCG 2010 Grand Finals, and the one on Ultimatum from NATE MSL 2009.




Several of Jaedong's other ZvT games are particularly epic, including Jaedong vs BaBy from a recent Oz vs Wemade match. VOD below.
Jaedong and Hwaseung Oz fan.
soujiro_
Profile Joined June 2010
Uruguay5195 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 22:15:19
May 13 2011 22:15 GMT
#20
one great tvz is jd vs sea on andromeda
loved that game )

+ Show Spoiler +
ace hwaiting!!
infinity2k9
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom2397 Posts
May 13 2011 22:18 GMT
#21
Personally i think Flash vs Kwanro was kind of lame because Kwanro wasn't exactly playing well.

Anyway my suggestion is Bisu vs Iris, PvT on Byzantium 3:


Excellent game. Maybe it would be good to pick a favourite game in each matchup to make a consensus and represent all of the game?
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32271 Posts
May 13 2011 22:23 GMT
#22
On May 14 2011 06:08 happyft wrote:
Thanks for this!

As an SC2 only player, I find BW to be really fascinating (of the only several vods I've watched so far) -- especially on how its TvZ is very similar, yet very different from SC2's TvZ. For instance, BW Z takes gas much later than SC2 Z in this matchup, and gets a very fast third (macro hatch) as a result -- because speedlings seem a lot stronger, and the rush distance feels like cross position? Overall the matchup feels a lot more stable in BW, since zerg can hold off any 2-base terran attack with lurker and tech safely to deflier. There just doesn't feel like there's any "safe" equivalent in SC2, the closest thing I can think of is speed banelings, but terrain, army positioning and micro heavily heavily influence how successful a SC2 Z can hold off a T push, whereas in BW it looks like the Z doesn't have to go absolutely nuts, just muta harass + cutoff reinforcements to buy time to get lurker, and things proceed smoothly from there.


Exactly!

There's time when something odd happens (terran forces a cancel on the Zerg's third/kills it or he tries to kill it and loses an army) but generally players have the timmings down because it's such a common situation than both transition into a lategame siege stage.

Terran is trying to take down every expansion the Zerg puts up, usually attacking multiplaces at one time. Zerg tries to use defilers to push the Terran back with Dark Swarm, and eventually if he gets too many gas (to get tons of ultralisks for example) or if he pushes the Terrans too much into their base (lurkers under swarm attacking a terran base are virtually unkillable) the zerg wins.

So it's not a matter of "who wins one battle" (usually) but more of, how much you can push the other back and how do you move your pieces to block expansion attemps, flank routes, etc.

I hope we get something in HOTS that favours static defence a bit more for Zerg to make transitions smoother, I think that would make watching it more fun for me
Moderator<:3-/-<
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11752 Posts
May 13 2011 22:26 GMT
#23
On May 14 2011 06:08 happyft wrote:
Thanks for this!

As an SC2 only player, I find BW to be really fascinating (of the only several vods I've watched so far) -- especially on how its TvZ is very similar, yet very different from SC2's TvZ. For instance, BW Z takes gas much later than SC2 Z in this matchup, and gets a very fast third (macro hatch) as a result -- because speedlings seem a lot stronger, and the rush distance feels like cross position? Overall the matchup feels a lot more stable in BW, since zerg can hold off any 2-base terran attack with lurker and tech safely to deflier. There just doesn't feel like there's any "safe" equivalent in SC2, the closest thing I can think of is speed banelings, but terrain, army positioning and micro heavily heavily influence how successful a SC2 Z can hold off a T push, whereas in BW it looks like the Z doesn't have to go absolutely nuts, just muta harass + cutoff reinforcements to buy time to get lurker, and things proceed smoothly from there.


It isn't as simple as that, there are several different timings from 2 base terran that can outright kill a zerg.

Several version of marine medic that hits before lurkers and breaks the sunkens in order to win early. This can be stopped by having even more sunkens/units, very hard to know for certain that it is coming though.

Then the variants of pushing with scan and one-two siege tanks. Doesn't often outright win, but does some damage.

Last version is marine, medic, tank then push with one science vessel.

Then there are funny pushes that are map dependant and can't be scouted since they can be easily stopped if seen in time, like goliaths. ^^

Probably some build that simply is based on expanding again.

For the lols cloaked wraiths can work, but isn't it more 1 base?

And that is all I know about TvZ in BW (since I don't play it).
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 22:38:22
May 13 2011 22:36 GMT
#24
Thanks to all the BW aficionados who have suggested other games, and the one SC2 guy. Hope you saw something new ^.^

Kinda surprised though --- by the poll, TL now has a majority of SC2-only people, and that was kind of the demographic I was hoping to reach. But it seems like there is not much interest*. Doesn't everyone see the blog section? I thought of posting to SC2 general but it seems really obnoxious to come in there with a bunch of BW vods even if I'm just trying to share. Oh well. There are a lot "best vods" threads but I didn't really mean it like that.

*It sounds tautological but it's not. I know there are plenty of SC2 fans who just haven't exposed to BW properly and plenty of BW fans like me who haven't been exposed to SC2 properly.
May the BeSt man win.
419
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Russian Federation3631 Posts
May 13 2011 22:42 GMT
#25
+1 to those saying Flash vs Jaedong on Tau Cross, WCG Semifinals.

I do believe this is the best TvZ of all time.

An amazing game, and the outcome is not certain until the final 10 seconds.
?
des
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
United States507 Posts
May 13 2011 22:44 GMT
#26
bw is seriously an amazing game to watch oh man

i don't think i forget this but every time i watch a vod i seem to have that revelation all over again
my larvae bring all the zerg to the yard
DarkMatter_
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada1774 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 23:09:33
May 13 2011 23:05 GMT
#27
There's a serious lack of Bisu in this thread. If you want to watch a single VOD that shows why Bisu is such nightmare for zergs, this is the video to watch (watch from about 8:00 onwards if you just want to get straight to the action):


Also, this game is a great example showing off why reavers are such awesome units and why they're sorely missed in SC2.

While these games are awe-inspiring just from an objective point of view, actually being a fan of the players and watching it live is an entirely different experience. No other sport even comes close for me.
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 23:18:00
May 13 2011 23:16 GMT
#28


To show you one of the most extreme cases of Micro in Starcraft BW.

Be amazed:

+ Show Spoiler +
A dragoon, a single unit, the equivalent of a Stalker you could say, gets 32 kills and singlehandedly wins the game.
WriterXiao8~~
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 23:29:45
May 13 2011 23:16 GMT
#29
Dude, good catch on the Bisu vs Yarnc. I'd forgotten about that game, but I remember my jaw hitting the floor when I first saw it.

After watching: Oh man that whole game is like a pimpest plays reel. Good stuff.
May the BeSt man win.
DarkMatter_
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada1774 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 23:36:10
May 13 2011 23:29 GMT
#30
Some awesome moments from the first half of 2010:


Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8075 Posts
May 14 2011 01:08 GMT
#31
On May 14 2011 07:36 Djabanete wrote:
Thanks to all the BW aficionados who have suggested other games, and the one SC2 guy. Hope you saw something new ^.^

Kinda surprised though --- by the poll, TL now has a majority of SC2-only people, and that was kind of the demographic I was hoping to reach. But it seems like there is not much interest*. Doesn't everyone see the blog section? I thought of posting to SC2 general but it seems really obnoxious to come in there with a bunch of BW vods even if I'm just trying to share. Oh well. There are a lot "best vods" threads but I didn't really mean it like that.

*It sounds tautological but it's not. I know there are plenty of SC2 fans who just haven't exposed to BW properly and plenty of BW fans like me who haven't been exposed to SC2 properly.


i really hope this blog reaches a lot of SC2 fans, but I just dont think that many of them "can be bothered to watch a game with such archaic graphics" or something like that. I hope i'm wrong though.
I like starcraft
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-14 01:22:49
May 14 2011 01:11 GMT
#32
On May 14 2011 10:08 Ideas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2011 07:36 Djabanete wrote:
Thanks to all the BW aficionados who have suggested other games, and the one SC2 guy. Hope you saw something new ^.^

Kinda surprised though --- by the poll, TL now has a majority of SC2-only people, and that was kind of the demographic I was hoping to reach. But it seems like there is not much interest*. Doesn't everyone see the blog section? I thought of posting to SC2 general but it seems really obnoxious to come in there with a bunch of BW vods even if I'm just trying to share. Oh well. There are a lot "best vods" threads but I didn't really mean it like that.

*It sounds tautological but it's not. I know there are plenty of SC2 fans who just haven't exposed to BW properly and plenty of BW fans like me who haven't been exposed to SC2 properly.


i really hope this blog reaches a lot of SC2 fans, but I just dont think that many of them "can be bothered to watch a game with such archaic graphics" or something like that. I hope i'm wrong though.


Sadly I don't think alot of SC2 fans even head into the Blog section at all(% wise). Frankly alot of them don't head out of the SC2 section, notice how even the Featured News concerning SC2(The TLFE is an exception to this) does not have alot of replies or even views.

Now if they were to post that in the SC2 general section that would get a massive amount of pages and viewers.
WriterXiao8~~
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13812 Posts
May 14 2011 03:22 GMT
#33
No offence but I've never been able to get past the graphics and the korean comentators. Its just nothing near the pretty go go world that sc2 has and the english casting on everything that I guess I take for granted.

Plus it says BW in the title thats probably why no sc2 people are posting anything. I'd do this but I don't see the point. From everything I've ever read BW people won't ever appreciate Anything that happens in SC2 nowandays. I guess Its just the same the other way around.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8075 Posts
May 14 2011 03:49 GMT
#34
lol seeeee
I like starcraft
phosphorylation
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2935 Posts
May 14 2011 04:43 GMT
#35
I maintain the sc2 people are generally different people. of course there are people who watch few, but those are a subset.
Buy prints of my photographs at Redbubble -> http://www.redbubble.com/people/shoenberg3
corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
May 14 2011 08:14 GMT
#36
There are already dozens of good vods compilation on TL, so I'm not that sure what you are doing is useful. While I agree most FvJ games are not the kind of game you would choose for someone who has never seen bw, I personnally thought most of them were extremely entertaining.
Honestly, I'd love if more sc2 people tried to make an effort, like I regularly do out of curiosity for their game, but most don't and stay at the bad graphics part (there are pretty good commentated vods out there, so the language part is not a good reason). And yeah, very few sc2 people come to the blog section.
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
Djagulingu
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany3605 Posts
May 14 2011 08:21 GMT
#37
On May 14 2011 07:26 Yurie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2011 06:08 happyft wrote:
Thanks for this!

As an SC2 only player, I find BW to be really fascinating (of the only several vods I've watched so far) -- especially on how its TvZ is very similar, yet very different from SC2's TvZ. For instance, BW Z takes gas much later than SC2 Z in this matchup, and gets a very fast third (macro hatch) as a result -- because speedlings seem a lot stronger, and the rush distance feels like cross position? Overall the matchup feels a lot more stable in BW, since zerg can hold off any 2-base terran attack with lurker and tech safely to deflier. There just doesn't feel like there's any "safe" equivalent in SC2, the closest thing I can think of is speed banelings, but terrain, army positioning and micro heavily heavily influence how successful a SC2 Z can hold off a T push, whereas in BW it looks like the Z doesn't have to go absolutely nuts, just muta harass + cutoff reinforcements to buy time to get lurker, and things proceed smoothly from there.

.....

Last version is marine, medic, tank then push with one science vessel.




This is the most recent one I've seen. Pretty good game, watch it and see how the game is decided by a single mistake

+ Show Spoiler +
Hydra decides to fully retreat and defend Mind's push out of his natural and third instead of trying to buy time in the middle of the map, which would slow that push even more than vessel heavy one with less number of tanks, and mind breaks the sunken heavy defense with tanks.
"windows bash is a steaming heap of shit" tofucake
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11133 Posts
May 14 2011 08:24 GMT
#38
On May 14 2011 08:16 Kipsate wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG1U25luMOA

To show you one of the most extreme cases of Micro in Starcraft BW.

Be amazed:

+ Show Spoiler +
A dragoon, a single unit, the equivalent of a Stalker you could say, gets 32 kills and singlehandedly wins the game.

I think the Shield Battery is the unsung hero of that game.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
2Pacalypse-
Profile Joined October 2006
Croatia9489 Posts
May 14 2011 10:19 GMT
#39
On May 14 2011 17:24 eviltomahawk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2011 08:16 Kipsate wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG1U25luMOA

To show you one of the most extreme cases of Micro in Starcraft BW.

Be amazed:

+ Show Spoiler +
A dragoon, a single unit, the equivalent of a Stalker you could say, gets 32 kills and singlehandedly wins the game.

I think the Shield Battery is the unsung hero of that game.

Hero? Yes.
Unsung? I don't think so...

"life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery"
Moderator"We're a community of geniuses because we've found how to extract 95% of the feeling of doing something amazing without actually doing anything." - Chill
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 14 2011 11:20 GMT
#40
Bisu vs Flash, I don't remember which map, in which Bisu goes nexus first and Flash does some sort of timing attack. The micro in that game is just SO sick. Both players were playing amazingly thoughout.
Nazza
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1654 Posts
May 14 2011 11:35 GMT
#41
BW player here.

So where are the good sc2 vods? I know that you have to pay and stuff but I guess I can just borrow a friends account. I just saw the GSL May finals. Let's just say that is was quite lackluster. I'd like to see good SC2 games but where are they? Can't find them .
No one ever remembers second place, eh? eh? GIVE ME COMMAND
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-14 11:57:41
May 14 2011 11:50 GMT
#42
So I play both games, and tbh there aren't many great games IMO in SC2. A few that stick out, but BW still takes the cake for me.

TvZ:

Idra vs Jinro in GSL January (I think) on Jungle Basin. Intense game.

Most of Nestea vs Foxer (marineking, at the time he was using the Boxer ID) finals GSL 2

Marineking vs Kyrix GSL 2 (again, marineking using Boxer ID) most of the series is good but games 1 and 5 were the best.

July vs Nada, whenever they played. March, I think.

TvP

MVP vs Squirtle GSTL (the first team league. Finals, I believe.)

ZvZ
Nestea vs TheWind on Blistering Sands in GSL2

Nestea vs Dimaga GSL world championships (lol @ game 1)

TvT
Boxer vs Nada GSL 2

MVP vs Bomber GSTL Finals (first team league)

Jinro vs Ensnare GSL January (longass TvT but good)

PvZ

Can't think of any. This matchup is what makes me LOVE broodwar (Bisu so sex)

EDIT: Maybe Nestea vs San from GSL March but that game was a bunch of mistakes by the loser and the game was exciting at the time because of the shock factor. All in all it was a pretty mediocre game IMO

PvP

MC vs Whitera game on Shakuras, Korea vs World team match
soujiro_
Profile Joined June 2010
Uruguay5195 Posts
May 14 2011 12:27 GMT
#43
On May 14 2011 20:20 wherebugsgo wrote:
Bisu vs Flash, I don't remember which map, in which Bisu goes nexus first and Flash does some sort of timing attack. The micro in that game is just SO sick. Both players were playing amazingly thoughout.


its on hbr for wcg

+ Show Spoiler +
ace hwaiting!!
SnowFantasy
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
4173 Posts
May 14 2011 12:31 GMT
#44
As a BW fan, this thread is amazing. I will try to think of some good games to add to the list.
NoobStyles
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Australia257 Posts
May 14 2011 12:57 GMT
#45
On May 14 2011 07:18 infinity2k9 wrote:
Personally i think Flash vs Kwanro was kind of lame because Kwanro wasn't exactly playing well.


+1

This is a game that i just dont get, sure the first 10-15mins were cool. but after that my strongest memory is kwanro running ultra first through mine fields for 20mins and leting flash win
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES49884 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-14 13:15:48
May 14 2011 13:10 GMT
#46
I might add some games too.

Flash vs Calm EVER OSL 09 on Fighting Spirit
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/34969_Calm_vs_Flash/vod

Day[9] did a daily on this if you want to watch with analysis and english commentary
http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/3534438


Jaedong vs Stork Shinhan Bank Winner's League 2010 on Match Point(You wish SC2 PvZ would look like this,I know I do.)
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/36074_Jaedong_vs_Stork/vod

Day[9] did a daily on this if you want to watch with analysis and english commentary.
http://blip.tv/file/3642585/
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66145 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-14 17:15:19
May 14 2011 17:14 GMT
#47
this is real nice haha. great recommendations all there!

p.s: need SC2 vods. too bad can't find GSL videos :/
POGGERS
YejinYejin
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1053 Posts
May 15 2011 04:52 GMT
#48
BLinD-RawR, I was literally just about to post that Flash vs Calm game. Such a great game. Definitely a must-watch.
안지호
JMave
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Singapore1803 Posts
May 15 2011 06:17 GMT
#49
The Flash vs Kwanro game was kinda frustrating to watch. Seeing Kwanro running all his ultras into mines blindly. It was really poor control on his part to have allowed Flash to get back into the game. But still, a good recommendation.
火心 Jealous. I always loved that feeling when I was young. Embrace it.
Umbrella
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Taiwan936 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-15 08:17:08
May 15 2011 06:37 GMT
#50
I picked BW games I enjoyed when I first joined Teamliquid. (2007-2008 era)

I also added in a few more SC2 games since there has been a lack of them posted so far. I only posted free ones so you can all watch them.

BW TvP
Mind vs. Bisu on Loki II: Relatively unknown Terran defeats Bisu from all the way from qualifiers. Bisu was speculated to be the next bonjwa (and the first protoss one). If he won that MSL he would have won 3 MSLs really quickly, and then if he had won an OSL it would've looked like the 3 MSL into OSL shenanigans.
+ Show Spoiler +

Can't find the VOD.... the video's been removed from TLPD. Here's one with english commentary,





BW ZvP
Jaedong vs. Stork on Katrina: Jaedong showing Stork what's up with a muta timing. The start of ee han timing? (Not sure, was it just popularized instead?)
+ Show Spoiler +




BW PvP
Stork vs. Bisu on Loki: Intense set 5 final match that goes all the way to arbiters. Stork also forgets dragoon range.
+ Show Spoiler +




BW TvT
Upmagic vs. Flash on Sin Chupung-Ryeong: Upmagic plays a ridiculous game.
+ Show Spoiler +




BW TvZ
Flash vs. Jaedong on Loki: The FvJ rivalry hadn't begun yet, but Flash all of a sudden plays Jaedong in like every league I believe. The game quality speaks for itself.
+ Show Spoiler +






BW ZvZ
Savior vs. Yellow: Savior was slumping and people were questioning CJ for sending him in an ace in a proleague playoff game. Then he wins and everything is all good. Also Savior hadn't played a ZvZ in forever.
+ Show Spoiler +




SC2 TvP
TheLittleOne vs. Nazgul on Metalopolis: This is the game where everyone instantly loved TLO. Also shows that a lot more Terran units were more viable than people thought.
+ Show Spoiler +



Thorzain vs. MC on TD Altar: Foreigner vs. 2X GSL champion. Really good game with a bit of everything in my opinion.
+ Show Spoiler +




SC2 ZvP
San vs. Nestea on Shakuras Plateau: Worst player of GSL comes from nowhere and takes down a GSL champion with really nice templar harassment.
http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors2/vod/61742

SC2 PvP
White-ra vs. MC on Shakuras Plateau: Surprisingly nice PvP with the rare warp prism. Foreigner wins over GSL champion. To be honest, this is the only PvP I can remember =P.
http://www.gomtv.net/2011championship/vod/63894 click on set 2

SC2 TvT
Jinro vs. Ensnare on Lost Temple: Teamliquid's Jinro plays the longest GSL match, but also one of the most intense TvT's I've seen.
http://sc2rep.com/replays/show?id=4364 (Chinese commentary)

MVP vs. MarineKing on Crevasse: MVP has pretty much always beaten MarineKing, but MarineKing finally wins a tough game in the WC finals.
http://www.gomtv.net/2011championship/vod/64516 click on set 3

SC2 TvZ
Foxer vs. Kyrix on Shakuras Plateau: First great SC2 series in my opinion. Foxer shows the beginnings of marine micro vs. banelings and inspires bio-centric play in TvZ afterwards.
http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens2/vod/1262

Foxer vs. Kyrix on Xel'naga Caverns: This is set 5 with a great comeback from Foxer/MarineKing.
http://sc2rep.com/replays/show?id=2589 (Chinese commentary)

sC vs. Nestea on Crossfire: The game everyone has been talking about recently. Nestea plays one of the greatest comebacks on a terrible ZvT map and makes his second finals. Note the crossfire game is set 5 (the VOD has 4 and 5 apparently).
http://sc2rep.com/replays/show?id=8016

SC2 ZvZ
Dimaga vs. Nestea series: Dimaga breaks Nestea's 100% ZvZ record. To be honest, I don't watch ZvZ's so there are probably better ones out there.
http://www.gomtv.net/2011championship/vod/64001
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES49884 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-15 07:02:08
May 15 2011 06:57 GMT
#51
there are some of the Best Games from 2010 in BW


<<2010 Set 1>>


I would like to say though even though this set has only 1 hive tech ZvZ(don't worry i'll put up a more separate section for that)

Hive tech ZvZ is probably the second most exciting thing to watch in the history of BW.

The Best being TvZ.
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
YejinYejin
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1053 Posts
May 15 2011 10:05 GMT
#52
For some reason, a lot of people dislike BW TvT. Personally, it's one of my favorite matchups. In my opinion, it yields the most long, epic games, which are my favorite.

I think everyone should watch Fantasy vs Flash on Benzene in SWL.
안지호
Mahs
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands171 Posts
May 15 2011 12:06 GMT
#53
Thank you so much for this Blog, I'm bookmarking it!

I'm an SC2 player but lately I've been checking out more and more BW VODs. I have a lot of respect for the roots of this community and often wish I had been a part of it. A lot of people seem to have switched to SC2 but I've been thinking about going the other way around. It's very intimidating though, I know that I'm not content playing a game which I'm not atleast reasonably good at, and BW feels like this giant thing that I won't even be able to be average at. So up to now I've only been watching VODs, with this lingering doubt on whether I should give it a shot for real. Atleast this blog has made my day, I'll be watching all the VODs!
I'll be in my bunk.
Louuster
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada2869 Posts
May 15 2011 13:06 GMT
#54
Im as much a Jaedong fan as anyone else, but I feel a lack of Bisu in this topic! To correct that Ill start off with the first game of his legendary series against sAviOr in 2007, which essentially cemented his status as the best protoss player of all time and revolutionized the PvZ matchup.



In english, with special commentary by none other than Day9 and NonY



Same game, first person view of savior which is always interesting imo
Kim Taek Yong fighting~
Amanebak
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Czech Republic528 Posts
May 15 2011 13:25 GMT
#55
Hooray, thank you, Umbrella, at last a link to sc2 games. I am a hardcore BW spectator but I would like to see some notable sc2 games.
BW
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES49884 Posts
May 17 2011 11:36 GMT
#56
TSL3 Finals was awesome for people who want to check out SC2.

<<TSL3 Grand Final - NaNiwa vs ThorZaIN: Set 1>>
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
bgx
Profile Joined August 2010
Poland6595 Posts
August 06 2011 18:22 GMT
#57
I feel like bumping this not gonna do any harm, because its v good thread, i got back to watching bw after several years ( i stopped around 2003 when i switched to cs and got back after sc2 release) there are tons of games worth mentioning. Someone said that BW ZvZ hive games are particularly rare and interesting so im gonna recommend one. Probably obvious to BW followers but this game is so interesting that should be mentioned always.

Stork[gm]
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