• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:05
CEST 00:05
KST 07:05
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence5Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups3WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia7Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments3
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues
Tourneys
WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL20 General Discussion Playing StarCraft as 2 people on the same network
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group C Is there English video for group selection for ASL [ASL20] Ro16 Group B [IPSL] ISPL Season 1 Winter Qualis and Info!
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Borderlands 3
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1442 users

Invite: BW fan to SC2 fans

Blogs > Djabanete
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
May 13 2011 20:30 GMT
#1
This started as a PM that I wrote to an SC2 fan who'd been interested in BW vods; he was a little put off by Jaedong and Flash repeatedly kicking each other in the shins. I think it would be good if this message reached a wider SC2 audience though. The TL;DR:
Here are some better vods. Exchanging awesome vods between fanbases > flaming between fanbases.
(Yeah, you know the thread I'm talking about.)
I'm directing this message to the BW community, but especially to the SC2 community, at large:

~~~~~

If you're interested in watching BW vods, you should definitely know that Flash vs JD is not the best place for a new viewer. Flash and JD are a cut above the rest and tend to play very standard against the field, but against one another they use so many mind games that 90% of their games are over before they start. The two players are very even --- I think the record stands at 21-21 if you count just the main leagues --- but the games themselves tend to be lopsided.
BW fans themselves have often been disappointed by how many superhyped Flash vs Jaedong games are decided by proxies/timing rushes/greed openings/etc. They just play like that against each other; perhaps because they know each other so well.
But don't give up! There are a lot of entertaining games out there that a new viewer can enjoy. I'd like to point you to a few. First, some "real" Flash vs Jaedong:

1. [Flash vs Jaedong @ Grand Line, WCG Korea finals 2010]

[Very long, epic, be warned that the ending gets a little slow but it's interesting throughout]

2. [Flash vs Jaedong @ Odd-Eye, "Power Outage" MSL finals 2010]
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/35159_Flash_vs_Jaedong/vod
[Amazing game before the power goes out. This tournament became infamous.]

3. [Flash vs Jaedong @ Rush Hour, Winner's League 2009 playoffs, KTF vs OZ]
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/11567_Flash_vs_Jaedong/vod
[Lots of action and blood. Jaedong has taken down 3 of KTF's players back-to-back --- can he complete the all-kill or will Flash block him and reverse all-kill?]

Here are some games that show why Flash is "God Young Ho." Partly it's because he wrecks anyone who tries to proxy him --- nobody has brainhacks like him (unless it's Boxer). But I'm not including all those games, they're not too fun to watch unless you're already a Flash fan. These are games that show Flash's dominance against the "normal" field.

4. [Flash vs Kwanro @ Roadrunner, Winner's League 2010]
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/36209_Flash_vs_Kwanro/vod
[Flash thinks Kwanro is going mutas, and gets massacred by lurkers instead. He then goes into god mode and makes a ridiculous comeback.]

5. [Flash vs Best @ Fortress, Proleague 2010]
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/50120_BeSt_vs_Flash/vod
[Flash lost to Best (a top PvT'er) in their previous encounter. In this revenge match Flash chose to crush him with a strategy so micro-intensive and demanding that it's never even been *attempted* before or since.]

Finally, here are some random games that I remember as being good.

6. [Fantasy vs Stork @ Outsider, Bacchus OSL 2009 Ro16]
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/16843_Fantasy_vs_Stork/vod
[Just a wicked PvT. I remember there being a lot of harassment and drop play.]

7. [Hiya vs Stork @ Gladiator, Bacchus OSL 2010 Ro8]
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/50634_HiyA_vs_Stork/vod
[I understand there are no reavers in SC2. Under the direction of Stork they are incredible to watch! Hiya is using a strong timing push here.]

8. [Fantasy vs Jaedong @, Bacchus OSL 2009 Semifinals]
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/27100_Fantasy_vs_Jaedong/vod
[Fantasy and Jaedong had a terrific rivalry in 2009. Fantasy 2-0'd Jaedong in the Proleague Grand Finals, essentially assuring SKT's victory, but in return Jeadong overcame Fantasy 3-2 and 3-1 in two of his OSL championships. This game comes from Jaedong's golden mouse run.]

9. [Savior vs Iris @ Neo Arkanoid, Shinhan OSL 2006 Semifinals]
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/1664_Iris_vs_sAviOr/vod
[That's right, 2006. This was one of the first BW games I watched so I remember it fondly. This is the deciding game of a tense teamkill Bo5. Savior was one of the greatest Zerg players, eclipsed only by Jaedong, but he's not mentioned much anymore because he shafted everyone in the match-fixing scandal. I haven't seen the game in a while, so I'm not sure how it stands up to the others in terms of absolute skill level, but it's a fun watch.]

Well there you go. This is the tip of the iceberg --- I could easily rattle off 20 to 30 (40? 50?) other favorite games but finding the vods takes time. Also I'm deliberately avoiding short/rush games --- not because they're bad but because these games here show more. A lot of rush games have amazing micro though.

I don't see any reason why BW and SC2 fans shouldn't enjoy both. I'm not very familiar with SC2; you can probably tell I'm kind of a die-hard BW fan. I'm sure I'll always like BW more than SC2. But both games have a lot to recommend them and both fanbases could be a lot better collectively about sharing what aspects of the game they enjoy.

So if you have any favorite SC2 vods you can shoot them my way, or post them here, and I will make sure to watch 'em!

PS: It's kind of criminal that I didn't include any Bisu vods. Sorry, I guess I'm a Flash/Jaedong fanboy. Just watch any Bisu PvZ, it's art.

~~~~~

Thanks guys. I'll come back later. If I get any cool SC2 vods to watch, I'll be happy; and if any SC2-only fans out there see this and get a taste of BW too, I'll be happy. 'Til then!

****
May the BeSt man win.
Phyrigian
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
New Zealand1332 Posts
May 13 2011 20:32 GMT
#2
--- Nuked ---
bobbob
Profile Joined December 2009
United States368 Posts
May 13 2011 20:40 GMT
#3
Just do the original bisu vs savior and watch savior have no clue how to deal with a revolutionary build.
NukeTheStars
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States277 Posts
May 13 2011 20:44 GMT
#4
I've always thought the best BW gateway is a good series, not just individual games. Like Iris vs. GGPlay OSL finals, or Jaedong vs. Fantasy OSL finals. Good stuff.
GGQ
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada2653 Posts
May 13 2011 20:51 GMT
#5
You dont have any Bisu versus Zerg, which is what makes BW for me!
n.DieJokes
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3443 Posts
May 13 2011 20:59 GMT
#6
NaDa vs Jangbi needs to be in here. I can't think a better series to introduce bw plus it features NaDa who's recognized in Sc2
MyLove + Your Love= Supa Love
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11879 Posts
May 13 2011 21:00 GMT
#7
Boxer vs Yellow, triple bunker rush is a great introduction.
soujiro_
Profile Joined June 2010
Uruguay5195 Posts
May 13 2011 21:03 GMT
#8
really vs kwanro or light vs tempest are quite epic
ace hwaiting!!
clusen
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany8702 Posts
May 13 2011 21:06 GMT
#9
You should add GomTV-VODs imo.

There are some really nice games in the first 2 seasons, and they are casted by Tasteless at his absolute best which should be enough to make any SC2-fan interested.
happyft
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States470 Posts
May 13 2011 21:08 GMT
#10
Thanks for this!

As an SC2 only player, I find BW to be really fascinating (of the only several vods I've watched so far) -- especially on how its TvZ is very similar, yet very different from SC2's TvZ. For instance, BW Z takes gas much later than SC2 Z in this matchup, and gets a very fast third (macro hatch) as a result -- because speedlings seem a lot stronger, and the rush distance feels like cross position? Overall the matchup feels a lot more stable in BW, since zerg can hold off any 2-base terran attack with lurker and tech safely to deflier. There just doesn't feel like there's any "safe" equivalent in SC2, the closest thing I can think of is speed banelings, but terrain, army positioning and micro heavily heavily influence how successful a SC2 Z can hold off a T push, whereas in BW it looks like the Z doesn't have to go absolutely nuts, just muta harass + cutoff reinforcements to buy time to get lurker, and things proceed smoothly from there.
mucker
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States1120 Posts
May 13 2011 21:10 GMT
#11
For me it is all about Bisu vs Yellow on HBR when I introduce people to BW. Not because the gameplay itself is all that super amazing but because the excitement of the crowd is so incredible it really shows how great BW is as a spectator sport and how passionately people can feel about it. Even if you don't really know the players you can't help but get excited watching that game.
It's supposed to be automatic but actually you have to press this button.
ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
May 13 2011 21:13 GMT
#12
Where are the games where Jaedong dominates noobs

These are all good games though. Remember them all but one of them. Watching now :D
Jaedong :3
wrags
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States379 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 21:29:54
May 13 2011 21:13 GMT
#13
8. [Fantasy vs Jaedong @, Bacchus OSL 2009 Semifinals]
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/27100_Fantasy_vs_Jaedong/vod
[Fantasy and Jaedong had a terrific rivalry in 2009. Fantasy 2-0'd Jaedong in the Proleague Grand Finals, essentially assuring SKT's victory, but in return Jeadong overcame Fantasy 3-2 and 3-1 in two of his OSL championships. This game comes from Jaedong's golden mouse run.]


from one of the series he came back from.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/11723_Fantasy_vs_Jaedong/vod

still blown away at the timing at 6 mins in the vod

also, if someone could help me remember the game i'm thinking of, it's been bothering me for a while. zvt, can't remember the terran (i want to say forgg but i know that's not right) game was on sin chupung and jaedong ended up doing 2 hatch muta with 2 control groups of muta.
setzer
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3284 Posts
May 13 2011 21:26 GMT
#14
Bisu vs Jaedong on Blue Storm and GGplay vs Iris are two that are sorely missing from this.

Overall, yeah this is a pretty good starter list.
Brad`
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada548 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 21:31:48
May 13 2011 21:31 GMT
#15
On May 14 2011 06:13 wrags wrote:
Show nested quote +
8. [Fantasy vs Jaedong @, Bacchus OSL 2009 Semifinals]
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/27100_Fantasy_vs_Jaedong/vod
[Fantasy and Jaedong had a terrific rivalry in 2009. Fantasy 2-0'd Jaedong in the Proleague Grand Finals, essentially assuring SKT's victory, but in return Jeadong overcame Fantasy 3-2 and 3-1 in two of his OSL championships. This game comes from Jaedong's golden mouse run.]


from one of the series he came back from.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/11723_Fantasy_vs_Jaedong/vod

still blown away at the timing at 6 mins in the vod

also, if someone could help me remember the game i'm thinking of, it's been bothering me for a while. zvt, can't remember the terran (i want to say forgg but i know that's not right) game was on sin chupung and jaedong ended up doing 2 hatch muta with 2 control groups of muta.

ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
May 13 2011 21:35 GMT
#16
On May 14 2011 06:13 wrags wrote:
Show nested quote +
8. [Fantasy vs Jaedong @, Bacchus OSL 2009 Semifinals]
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/27100_Fantasy_vs_Jaedong/vod
[Fantasy and Jaedong had a terrific rivalry in 2009. Fantasy 2-0'd Jaedong in the Proleague Grand Finals, essentially assuring SKT's victory, but in return Jeadong overcame Fantasy 3-2 and 3-1 in two of his OSL championships. This game comes from Jaedong's golden mouse run.]


from one of the series he came back from.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/11723_Fantasy_vs_Jaedong/vod

still blown away at the timing at 6 mins in the vod

also, if someone could help me remember the game i'm thinking of, it's been bothering me for a while. zvt, can't remember the terran (i want to say forgg but i know that's not right) game was on sin chupung and jaedong ended up doing 2 hatch muta with 2 control groups of muta.


Yea at 6 minutes in that VOD...it just goes to show how much preparation a player goes into a game with after hundreds of games practiced just for the 1 game. Its pretty amazing ^^

Highly recommended :D
Jaedong :3
wrags
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States379 Posts
May 13 2011 21:38 GMT
#17
On May 14 2011 06:31 Brad` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2011 06:13 wrags wrote:
8. [Fantasy vs Jaedong @, Bacchus OSL 2009 Semifinals]
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/27100_Fantasy_vs_Jaedong/vod
[Fantasy and Jaedong had a terrific rivalry in 2009. Fantasy 2-0'd Jaedong in the Proleague Grand Finals, essentially assuring SKT's victory, but in return Jeadong overcame Fantasy 3-2 and 3-1 in two of his OSL championships. This game comes from Jaedong's golden mouse run.]


from one of the series he came back from.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/11723_Fantasy_vs_Jaedong/vod

still blown away at the timing at 6 mins in the vod

also, if someone could help me remember the game i'm thinking of, it's been bothering me for a while. zvt, can't remember the terran (i want to say forgg but i know that's not right) game was on sin chupung and jaedong ended up doing 2 hatch muta with 2 control groups of muta.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QHUB0DJj3A


YES TY
zawk9
Profile Joined March 2011
United States427 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 21:56:30
May 13 2011 21:52 GMT
#18
Very awesome game of old Brood War legend Yellow taking down Bisu against the odds with very old school tactics on Heartbreak Ridge. One of my personal favorites since I started watching BW. That it was a ZvP makes it all the more incredible.



English Commentary from Klazart Here (Warning: Very unique style of commentary)

Edit:

On May 14 2011 06:10 mucker wrote:
For me it is all about Bisu vs Yellow on HBR when I introduce people to BW. Not because the gameplay itself is all that super amazing but because the excitement of the crowd is so incredible it really shows how great BW is as a spectator sport and how passionately people can feel about it. Even if you don't really know the players you can't help but get excited watching that game.


Totally agreed! I've shown it to friends who couldn't care less about Starcraft and they enjoyed it. I managed to get a very good friend who I talk sports with interested in Brood War/SC2 through it. The crowd's roar as Yellow takes down the current generations PvZ star is something to behold.
there's a bug in the new patch where the other player keeps killing all my dudes.. please nerf this
e_i_pi_1_0
Profile Joined September 2009
933 Posts
May 13 2011 22:01 GMT
#19
For FvJ games, I would also recommend Jaedong vs Flash on Tau Cross from WCG 2010 Grand Finals, and the one on Ultimatum from NATE MSL 2009.




Several of Jaedong's other ZvT games are particularly epic, including Jaedong vs BaBy from a recent Oz vs Wemade match. VOD below.
Jaedong and Hwaseung Oz fan.
soujiro_
Profile Joined June 2010
Uruguay5195 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 22:15:19
May 13 2011 22:15 GMT
#20
one great tvz is jd vs sea on andromeda
loved that game )

+ Show Spoiler +
ace hwaiting!!
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 55m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
NeuroSwarm 255
ZombieGrub219
JuggernautJason65
Lillekanin 11
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 68
ajuk12(nOOB) 16
sSak 16
Dota 2
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K472
Foxcn306
Super Smash Bros
PPMD74
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu455
Other Games
Grubby3943
summit1g3441
FrodaN2995
shahzam592
mouzStarbuck287
ToD135
C9.Mang0126
SortOf105
Trikslyr57
Nathanias23
fpsfer 2
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• RyuSc2 46
• davetesta23
• Psz 18
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix19
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2796
• masondota22256
• WagamamaTV78
• Ler70
League of Legends
• TFBlade588
Other Games
• Scarra1343
• imaqtpie910
Upcoming Events
OSC
1h 55m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
11h 55m
Afreeca Starleague
11h 55m
Light vs Speed
Larva vs Soma
2v2
12h 55m
PiGosaur Monday
1d 1h
LiuLi Cup
1d 12h
RSL Revival
2 days
Maru vs Reynor
Cure vs TriGGeR
The PondCast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Zoun vs Classic
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
[ Show More ]
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Online Event
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 20 Team Wars
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Polish World Championship 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.