• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 17:04
CET 23:04
KST 07:04
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns6[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1822Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises3Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Starcraft 2 Zerg Coach
Tourneys
SC2 AI Tournament 2026 WardiTV Winter Cup OSC Season 13 World Championship uThermal 2v2 Circuit WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution
Brood War
General
I would like to say something about StarCraft BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Data analysis on 70 million replays
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread The Big Programming Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
How do archons sleep?
8882
Psychological Factors That D…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
StarCraft improvement
iopq
GOAT of Goats list
BisuDagger
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 964 users

Deeper Analisys: Apocriva vs TrepZ (P)

Blogs > apocriva
Post a Reply
apocriva
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada66 Posts
April 29 2011 22:36 GMT
#1
Replay:
Loss vs TrepZ

+ Show Spoiler [Conclusions Reached] +
  • Spawn Overlords with each group of larvae.
  • Spawn anything with larvae! Don't let them sit out, or they'll spoil!
  • Get upgrades.



There comes a point in every match where I switch to making units, and never again make any drones. What I think ended up happening in this match was that my opponent had an extremely strong 2~3 base play, and I just didn't have the economy to match it. I'm going to take a closer look at the replay to see if I can identify exactly when it is that my resources start piling up, so that I can figure out some cues that might help me while playing.

At around 4 minutes, my gas is piling up. That's all gas that could have been minerals, which would have meant more drones or lings or whatever. I remember when I noticed my gas was so high, I thought "I might as well leave those drones there because I'll need the gas eventually". Kind of flawed thinking, though. I do eventually take them off, though.

Another observation that still hasn't sunk in for me. When you go for an early hatchery, you're actually behind in economy until you can get it saturated. Where I normally go for early hatch and double queen (I didn't in this game, though), I bet I end up even further behind.

I'm still doing a poor job making overlords. I need to start doing so as I make units... Specifically, before I morph in units, make enough overlords to cover their supply. I might end up with a few too many overlords doing this, but ultimately it's probably better to have too much supply than to be supply capped.

In any event, even at the 7-minute mark, I'm still behind my opponent on drones. It's not until about now that I actually start to really be able to make use of my early expansion. One thing is for sure, I wouldn't be able to be droning up and have enough larvae or income to produce an army... My creep spread is also pretty bad.

At 7:20 I hit 400 minerals, 400 gas, and have 8 larvae available. I build a couple more queens, and still don't deal with the now-12 larvae that I have. I'm also still behind my opponent in harvesters. My goodness, I really have to be putting more effort into saturating that expansion more quickly. Now, despite that, I'm still ahead on income because my opponent is over-saturated, so that tells me that having the early hatch is a positive thing for me. I just have to work harder at saturating it.

Given how many larvae I have available at that moment (12), I am way behind in supply. At 35/44, I wouldn't be able to morph all those larvae even if I wanted to. Hmm. I hadn't thought about that. Other races can essentially make units and supply evenly, because you can't really 'stockpile' unit production. Zerg, on the other hand, do have the ability to stockpile larvae (intentionally or not), and therefore keeping up with supply ultimately involves making sure that you have enough supply for big influxes of units. Interesting.

(Disclaimer: this is information that is useful for me as a Gold-league player. I don't doubt that supply works fairly similarly to other races once you get used to it. I don't come from an RTS background, though, so keeping up with supply is something I struggle with.)

Going back to my early point, I wonder if making overlords along with my other larva morphs would make more sense, then, even if it did result in being a big over-supplied?

Regardless, I don't think I really have the income to do a whole lot with those larvae. Since I made another couple queens, I don't even have enough minerals to morph those larvae into drones. Ooooh, but imagine if I had morphed those larvae into drones sooner -- the extra income would be kicking in by now, and I bet I could afford not only the extra queens, but also whatever extra larvae I have. Hmmm!

By 8 minutes in, I'm just barely even on harvesters with my opponent, and I'm behind on supply. I have 400 minerals and gas in the bank....... which I spend on a bunch of roaches because I see that my opponent has a tiny army that he's positioning to move out. Given that I build extra queens to help with defense, I definitely went overboard. Not only that, but now I don't have enough money to make more drones! I would have been much better off getting, say, four roaches and a few extra drones. The roaches could have worked on the rocks leading to a third while waiting for my opponent to attack. One other thing -- I'm making a single overlord (8 supply) while making 8 roaches (16 supply). It's no wonder I get supply blocked all the time.

Not too long after, I have larvae piling up again, and enough money to spend them on drones. Spend larvae!!!! Goodness gracious! Any time I inject, I should be spending larave, because obviously if I'm able to inject, I have larvae kicking around.

I toss up a third at around the 10 minute mark, which seems reasonable, except for the fact that I don't think I make drones for it for a long time... Let's see. In the meantime, at 11:20, I have 16 larvae, ~1000 mins, and ~500 gas. I do actually end up morphing in a bunch of drones with the intent of saturating the third, but since i don't make overlords too, I'm going to end up supply blocked very soon. At 12 minutes, the third is complete, and I haven't transferred drones, and I'm again sitting on a dozen larvae and more than enough resources to do something with them -- but not enough supply to do something with them. Especially once I get a queen at that third, larvae will be spawning in batches of 12 -- that means 24 supply worth of larvae, assuming I spend it all on tier 2 units or roaches.

One thing I do poorly in the game that probably plays a big part in how quickly my army disintegrates is not getting upgrades. It's part of the build I had been practicing, but I had been doing things differently, and therefore standard things I was doing previously (like getting evo chambers) aren't happening anymore.

Once I start doing Nydus drops, everything just falls apart. I don't have my third saturated, I have 20 (!!!!) larvae kicking around... I should have been able to sit back and get a fourth or just macro up an army again. I should have gone for probes instead of infrastructure in my initial attack, that's for sure. Something to remember for the future.

It isn't until 16:30 that I saturate my third. 16:30!!!! Referencing above where I observe that I got my third at 10 minutes, I didn't actually move drones to it for six and a half minutes. Six and a half minutes that I should have had higher income and did not.

At this point, my opponent was definitely on the back foot. He was supply blocked, oversaturated on his natural, and I'm sure that if I did have the income of my third, and upgrades, I could have made an army to seal the deal right then and there. I think he thought that I was going to do so, because he comments on the fact that it was a good attack. Little did he know then that my macro sucks, and I only have one punch in me, with no followup.

Biggest problem from here on out is that my opponent goes for upgrades and I still do not, then grabs a gold expansion that I had totally forgotten to scout.

Things just get silly after that. at 21 minutes, I have 49 (!!!!!) larvae, 3500 minerals, 2100 gas, and I'm not making anything at all. I think I've learned what I need to from this replay, though.

Alright, I'm going to put my conclusions/key-weaknesses-to-work on above, so chances are good you have already seen them.

Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 15h 56m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 171
JuggernautJason140
Livibee 71
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 16111
Shuttle 486
NaDa 11
Dota 2
syndereN447
LuMiX1
League of Legends
C9.Mang0625
JimRising 538
Counter-Strike
fl0m1705
shoxiejesuss1013
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu537
Other Games
FrodaN3948
Grubby3381
Liquid`RaSZi2542
Beastyqt713
Pyrionflax363
B2W.Neo184
ArmadaUGS176
ZombieGrub136
Fuzer 85
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick43017
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 37
• Hupsaiya 33
• musti20045 28
• Reevou 24
• Kozan
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix6
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2386
League of Legends
• Doublelift1671
Other Games
• imaqtpie2477
• Shiphtur363
Upcoming Events
OSC
15h 56m
SOOP
2 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Cure vs Creator
The PondCast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
IPSL
3 days
DragOn vs Sziky
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-06
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
OSC Championship Season 13
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W3
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Big Gabe Cup #3
Nations Cup 2026
Underdog Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.