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SC2: I don't know what to focus on first.. :-(

Blogs > ionize
Post a Reply
ionize
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Ireland399 Posts
April 27 2011 07:08 GMT
#1
Hey everyone, it's ionize again.

I've played a couple of 1v1 now and I realized I have no clue what to focus on for starters.
I decided to learn the 4 Warpgate build order first. I started by playing the AI and get to know the build, then I used it on the ladder, with varying results.

What I ask myself the most is, should I even be learning a build order at this time? My macro is really not so good. I often forget unit production while I attack my opponent and I forget Pylons as well.

Then I read the article on this guy from Reddit, who Stalker macroed his way up to prove that macro is VERY important for any player, especially lower levels (and that's where I am). So I'm asking myself what I should do?

Just play without a set build order and focus on macro?
Learn a different build order, which is more macro oriented?
Keep playing 4 Warpgate?

I would like to have your advice!

Regards
ionize

I just love video games, what's your excuse?
skyR
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada13817 Posts
April 27 2011 07:20 GMT
#2
Read this awesome guide (= http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=208343

You should probably focus on macro (making probes, don't get supply blocked, always use warpgate cooldown, etc) before learning specific matchups and build orders.

9 pylon > 12/13 gate > 14/15 gas > 16 pylon > 17/18 cyber should be all you need to know for a beginner.
Pwnographics
Profile Joined January 2011
New Zealand1097 Posts
April 27 2011 08:06 GMT
#3
I think you should learn the 6gate all-in.

It's a slight variation of the 4gate all-in but allows you practise macro-ing just a tad longer and is quite a viable build even in masters.
hahaimhenry
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada368 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-27 08:31:12
April 27 2011 08:27 GMT
#4
i feel like you're doing everything right at the moment, the fact that you're having varying results is all part of the learning process. for one, you're doing the same build order over and over again, which is good, especially when you ladder. it allows you to understand it in every way (strengths and weaknesses). Eventually, you'll begin to learn more about it, like the best timings to hit, and what you should do in certain situations. Repetition in SC2 (and SC1) is very important.

My suggestion is to continue doing it until you, yourself realize you're good at it. ask yourself, have you actually mastered a 4gate? do you understand all the timings that goes with the build? people often say people who 4gate are noobs, but even as a terran player, it's part of the game and if it wins you games, then it wins you games. what i feel like most new players (and intense gamers) don't do enough on the ladder IS do the same build orders and stick with it or a long period of time, that's the best way to get better.

EDIT: if you watch idra, 99% of his games are macro games, and he's incredible in playing those games, and it comes with the amount of times he does it. whether it's ladder or live matches, he always does similar macro builds (it may not be the best during live games) and is successful at it whereas, when he cheeses, it doesn't turn out as well. it's because he doesn't cheese enough to be anywhere close to where his macro builds are. i'm not saying he's a terrible early game player, in fact he's sick early game. but imagine the amount of macro games he's done, it's made him what he is.

Good luck in SC2! wish you all the best.
:]
Korinai
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada413 Posts
April 27 2011 08:27 GMT
#5
Your macro is the most important thing. Just focus on always making probes, making pylons and spending your money for now. Also, using a build order is fine, but don't focus on the numbers much.
"There is nothing more cool than being proud of the things that you love." - Day[9]
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
April 27 2011 08:30 GMT
#6
What level are you at? If you're below diamond DO NOT LEARN 4-GATE OMG
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
MichaelEU
Profile Joined February 2011
Netherlands816 Posts
April 27 2011 10:12 GMT
#7
tl;dr learn a macro build order, not an all-in build order

Learning a build order is definitely recommended! However, learning the 4gate is a bit iffy in my opinion. It won't be your super carrier for every game. When defended, the 4gate runs out of steam in the mid-late game which is also something you should practice. A lot of people will say they aren't good so they focus on the first 10 minutes of the game and try to win it in that time window but that is not how you practice macro. So I recommend the 3gate expand into whatever you want. I hear colossi are pretty good.
世界を革命する力を!― znf: "Michael-oniichan ( *^▽^*)ノ✩キラ✩"
onlinerobbe
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany547 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-27 10:42:19
April 27 2011 10:40 GMT
#8
yeah, all-in stuff will not really get you anywhere, so go with builds that actually go somewhere above gateway units.
But: every build order needs its pylons, if you still have problems with that all I can say is
"probes&pylons" just never forget that.
for example if you go for the pretty standard 12gate >> 14gas you need your second pylon at 15 and your 3rd at 20-23 (I usually go with pylon after zaelot so 22)

Everytime you'll notice that you have the perfect amount of minerals at 15 to never stop
probe-production and to add a pylon, everything is just going smoothly.
That is something that is important for the whole game.

So for now it's just:
-always build probes
-try to never get supply blocked in a game (maybe even just outright gg when it happens and
search for a new quick match, I know it's harsh but man it would teach a lesson heard that from MrBitter and liked it alot)
-keep building units unless you definetly know what you're saving up resources for


edit: if you're not sure when to build a pylon, just build it, for now it's "better too much/too early than too few/too late"
ohayo- on afk-op teamliquid | tuturuuuu! mayushi desu - 유인나, 이지은 사랑 (멍 지효 <3 )
antilyon
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Brazil2546 Posts
April 27 2011 12:12 GMT
#9
While a all-in build order will provide you a good chance of moving up on ladder, you'll hit a wall very fast and take time for surpass it.

I suggest you to learn 3 gate expansion or 2 gate robo for learning/improvement purposes, it will help you with macro, help you with your defense and teach you the timings.
Clamev
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Germany498 Posts
April 27 2011 12:37 GMT
#10
Please watch:
http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/5016867/
and
http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/5044479/
Then pick one build order for each matchup and do only this one build per matchup.
This is because once you know what you have to do , you can actually focus on actually doing it.
(getting better macro).
6Pool or die trying
ionize
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Ireland399 Posts
April 28 2011 09:19 GMT
#11
Thank you all for your input.

@4 Warpgate Rush Yeah, I see that it's a cheesy build and will go for something that has a mid and late game plan to it.
@Clamev Actually I watched a bit of the first Newbie Tuesday on BO Stealing and I liked it. I will watch both and apply his method. THAT made me think if I maybe even change race, if I get inspired by a nice Terran build for example (I don't like to play Zerg ).
I just love video games, what's your excuse?
AnxiousHippo
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia1451 Posts
April 28 2011 10:25 GMT
#12
On April 27 2011 21:12 antilyon wrote:
While a all-in build order will provide you a good chance of moving up on ladder, you'll hit a wall very fast and take time for surpass it.

I suggest you to learn 3 gate expansion or 2 gate robo for learning/improvement purposes, it will help you with macro, help you with your defense and teach you the timings.

Pretty much. If you want you want to win, learn a rush. I wouldn't recommend the 4 gate because it's getting nerfed.
If you want to learn how to play an get good at Starcraft, go with a macro build
An apple a day keeps the Protoss away | TLHF
PaPoolee
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Netherlands660 Posts
April 28 2011 10:39 GMT
#13
Don't listen to the guy who said don't 4gate, it's great to start with and its a very viable build order! you learn how to perfect a build order and when to make pylons/cut probes etc and of course you improve your micro by a ton! i think its great! doesn't matter if its going to get nerfed you wanna learn how to follow build orders and 4gate is easy to follow and wins you games!.
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