EPTOn April 27 2011 08:46 nitdkim wrote:
yes, drops are the way that zergs should be approaching the matchup but units such as roach/hydras aren't very effective units to use for drops. They cost a lot of resources and they cost 2 food. Because the protoss's general strategy is to mass up to a critical number of coll, they are generally positioned between their natural and 3rd base. Because of this, response to drops is very quick and if it's like a 4roach drop into a mineral line, they can just warp in 6 stalkers to deal with it easily. Just because it's easily stopped doesnt mean that it is never effective. BUT, it's just that the rewards from dropping doesnt justify the cost. In bw, drops consisted of hydras and hydras killed buildings very quickly and they were a huge threat if it wasnt dealt with. While main is being dropped, lings can go snipe a nexus or something. This can also be done in SC2 but once the drop in the main is dealt with, most of toss's army would probably not even be affected by it and the ling attack to the 3rd was probably stopped by zealot warp-ins or something.
I don't really want to sound too negative from the zerg's point of view but it just comes out that way...
yes, drops are the way that zergs should be approaching the matchup but units such as roach/hydras aren't very effective units to use for drops. They cost a lot of resources and they cost 2 food. Because the protoss's general strategy is to mass up to a critical number of coll, they are generally positioned between their natural and 3rd base. Because of this, response to drops is very quick and if it's like a 4roach drop into a mineral line, they can just warp in 6 stalkers to deal with it easily. Just because it's easily stopped doesnt mean that it is never effective. BUT, it's just that the rewards from dropping doesnt justify the cost. In bw, drops consisted of hydras and hydras killed buildings very quickly and they were a huge threat if it wasnt dealt with. While main is being dropped, lings can go snipe a nexus or something. This can also be done in SC2 but once the drop in the main is dealt with, most of toss's army would probably not even be affected by it and the ling attack to the 3rd was probably stopped by zealot warp-ins or something.
I don't really want to sound too negative from the zerg's point of view but it just comes out that way...
Well, at least you got the Protoss to spend 300 gas for a 100 gas drop. Any gas not spent on collosi is good, right?
But the aim of the drop is to drop away from the colossi and also negate any defensive power (forcefields/ g. shield) sentries have. 4 roaches might not work, but 8, 12 ,16 might. But, if the distance between the 3rd/nat/main is not that long, then perhaps some map balance should be considered. Even so, I still think there should be some holes in mid game that you can exploit.
On April 27 2011 08:35 hugman wrote:
That's valid conclusion to draw, but it's hard to do in practice.
First of all, Mutalisks are great at containing and harassing Protosses and they have been popular in the matchup but Zergs had to stop using them because Protoss players found midgame 2-base timings that straight up kill Zergs that try to go for them. If you get the Mutas out in decent numbers they're great, but if the Protoss plays it right you're not going to.
You can do drops but the main problem is that Zerg doesn't have a good unit to drop (Roches have very low DPS, Hydras fragile, slow and very expensive, there's no Hydra speed upg in SC2 :sadface: ). You tend to only see all-in doom drops because there's nothing you can drop in small numbers that will do enough damage to justify the cost, plus small drops are easily dealt with through the warp-in mechanic and blink Stalkers. Baneling drops on mineral lines have a lot of potential though. Probes are only (very) slightly slower than speed Banelings, so it hard to force them to work, but it does force situations where the Protoss player has to react well, which is good.
Here's a game where the Zerg tries to harass non-stop, but it's not cost effective and he ends up getting rolled.
That's valid conclusion to draw, but it's hard to do in practice.
First of all, Mutalisks are great at containing and harassing Protosses and they have been popular in the matchup but Zergs had to stop using them because Protoss players found midgame 2-base timings that straight up kill Zergs that try to go for them. If you get the Mutas out in decent numbers they're great, but if the Protoss plays it right you're not going to.
You can do drops but the main problem is that Zerg doesn't have a good unit to drop (Roches have very low DPS, Hydras fragile, slow and very expensive, there's no Hydra speed upg in SC2 :sadface: ). You tend to only see all-in doom drops because there's nothing you can drop in small numbers that will do enough damage to justify the cost, plus small drops are easily dealt with through the warp-in mechanic and blink Stalkers. Baneling drops on mineral lines have a lot of potential though. Probes are only (very) slightly slower than speed Banelings, so it hard to force them to work, but it does force situations where the Protoss player has to react well, which is good.
Here's a game where the Zerg tries to harass non-stop, but it's not cost effective and he ends up getting rolled.
Hmm...
That game may not have been the best in displaying drop harass from zerg. The last drop did manage to do alot of damage, but the first drop was pretty poorly positioned, dropping when the first collosus had finished, and right int the middle of an immortal, void ray, stalkers.
I'm kindof curious about burrow roach usage. It didn't seem to do much at all. The nat was tightly walled with 2/3 cannons. It wouldn't do anything to negate the air superiority of Cruncher. Was he planning on using it in conjuction with his drops? I would imagine that if so, burrow/drop/transport/ovie speed would not be researched so far apart. ( idk, maybe I'll look at game again). Perhaps if the money had been spent on other things, the game would have turned out differently.
