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It's way too easy for players to just open up a livestream on their 2nd monitor and literally stream hack during fairly important matches late in tournaments with prizes on the line.
It's highly annoying as a competitor to constantly have to worry about this. I don't stream and I've been told it's really hard if not impossible to set up a delay to the stream with a majority of the streaming sites out there. Regardless this is still an issue that is really annoying to have to worry about and deal with.
I wish I could just trust people would do the right thing and actually want to play a fair competitive game, but I obviously can't. With the amount of online tournaments there are for sc2 and the number of streams and streamers that broadcast live matches as they happen this issue probably happens more than I want to know. It's really sad that players would cheat by watching streams or even just listening to the caster while they stream. There's almost no way to prevent this or definitively prove it either which is also pretty annoying. I can watch replays of games and literally watch as the other player "blindly" hard counters a build or "luckily" scouts a dropship with a probe and wonder if it was really luck or if he's listening the entire time while the caster is describing the build...
I don't know what I'm really trying to do with this post other than rant a bit on an issue that isn't talked about too much but is extremely problematic with online events imo. It's making me paranoid to play any live streamed match. I really wish blizzard would incorporate group replay watching so multiple casters could log into the same replay as soon as a game finishes. Or that livestream sites would make it easy to broadcast on a 2-3 minute delay at least.
I guess the only consolation I have is the guys who stream hack out there and win know they didn't win legit. I'm not here to accuse anyone outright of stream hacking but I will say I feel its happened to me at least twice in the past couple weeks. And I don't even play in that many events maybe one or two a week.
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Own3D.tv, provides an 30-second to 420-second delay in their streams.
Edit: getting a screenshot.
![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v713/Xeroxer/Untitled-2396.png)
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Ya it is still crazy that so many casters cast with almost no delay, whereas in BW all streams had at least like a 2 minute delay.
Edit: Wow, if it's that easy to set up a delay all casters should have 120 sec delay minimum!
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United States22883 Posts
Well, stream interaction has been a big part of SC2 so far. It's just sad those shit bags are out there. :/
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I have thought this as well. Not really my place to say anything but of course any player who regularly participates in streamed events has to be concerned about "streaming" in this age of multi-monitors and high mb connections.
On April 11 2011 03:05 Jibba wrote:
Well, stream interaction has been a big part of SC2 so far. It's just sad those shit bags are out there. :/
There's always gonna be shit bags so it's best to make a shit shield. Unless you like getting hit with the shit bat.
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Putting the issue of it aside, I believe hacking is not the word you probably wanted to use, cheating sounds more appropriate imo, as the ''abuser'' isn't hacking in any way
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On April 11 2011 03:00 Superiorwolf wrote:
Ya it is still crazy that so many casters cast with almost no delay, whereas in BW all streams had at least like a 2 minute delay.
Edit: Wow, if it's that easy to set up a delay all casters should have 120 sec delay minimum!
I'm not sure a 2 minute delay is enough considering lets say twilight council+dark shrine takes 150 game seconds, and thats cutting it real close. Of course there are other tech paths that take a lot of time that 2 minute long delay may not be enough.
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On April 11 2011 02:58 Torte de Lini wrote:Own3D.tv, provides an 30-second to 420-second delay in their streams. Edit: getting a screenshot.
Well, that pretty much solves that problem. 480 seconds is a full 8 minutes of delay 0_0
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On April 11 2011 03:05 Redunzl wrote:
There's always gonna be shit bags so it's best to make a shit shield. Unless you like getting hit with the shit bat.
Jim Lahey?
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On April 11 2011 03:35 QuothTheRaven wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 02:58 Torte de Lini wrote:Own3D.tv, provides an 30-second to 420-second delay in their streams. Edit: getting a screenshot. Well, that pretty much solves that problem. 480 seconds is a full 8 minutes of delay 0_0
Indeed - i can live with delays, but not casted replays.
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wonder how many people in NASL will outright hack their way through.
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On April 11 2011 03:53 Sfydjklm wrote:
wonder how many people in NASL will outright hack their way through.
the stream isnt live during the NASL from what i gather, they will live cast the games and record it, and broadcast them the next day. Thus giving you that "live" experience, but nullifying the chance of cheating.
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On April 11 2011 03:57 NrG.NeverExpo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 03:53 Sfydjklm wrote:
wonder how many people in NASL will outright hack their way through. the stream isnt live during the NASL from what i gather, they will live cast the games and record it, and broadcast them the next day. Thus giving you that "live" experience, but nullifying the chance of cheating.
I meant actual maphack.
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Yeah, I agree on this. This stream hacking thing is soo annoying and I also think that a lot of people does this, also I've thought that I'm losing to some ppl on the tournaments coz of this, while i did some nasty bo's... This has to be changed. Somehow, in some way.
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It's common for people playing ranked games or tournaments in LoL to use the own3d built in delay. Many keep two streams, one w/ a delay and one without. As pointed out, it's simplistic to use and fits in SC2 just fine.
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On April 11 2011 04:23 Craton wrote:
It's common for people playing ranked games or tournaments in LoL to use the own3d built in delay. Many keep two streams, one w/ a delay and one without. As pointed out, it's simplistic to use and fits in SC2 just fine.
what about all the people who dont used own3d? :O
Most casters use justin.tv, and theres tons of people who use ustream, livestream or even other stuff.
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yea it's quite annoying thinking... this guy might be watching my stream!
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Hmm if own3d can implement a delay I don't see why one couldn't be requested of Ustream and Justin.tv, especially justin.tv when one of their main draws now is esports
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Germany2896 Posts
IMO stream hacking makes not much sense. You even leave your IP in the log of the streaming site.
You could just put an external maphack on your second monitor and combine it with some alerts on important events. If done correctly that's very hard to detect with antihack tools, and more powerful than streams.
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China7935 Posts
But why is this an issue when there are virtually undetectable maphacks available for a mere sum of maybe $10 that gives you more utility and can even be kept externally on a second monitor?
masterofchaos beat me to it. 
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On April 11 2011 04:25 LuckyFool wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 04:23 Craton wrote:
It's common for people playing ranked games or tournaments in LoL to use the own3d built in delay. Many keep two streams, one w/ a delay and one without. As pointed out, it's simplistic to use and fits in SC2 just fine. what about all the people who dont used own3d? :O Most casters use justin.tv, and theres tons of people who use ustream, livestream or even other stuff.
bro justin.tv has uses a program that you can set delay...
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I thought there is a major delay from playing to the stream, I'm not sure if in an intense game that will be beneficial to hear something that has already happened.
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On April 11 2011 04:49 Golgotha wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 04:25 LuckyFool wrote:On April 11 2011 04:23 Craton wrote:
It's common for people playing ranked games or tournaments in LoL to use the own3d built in delay. Many keep two streams, one w/ a delay and one without. As pointed out, it's simplistic to use and fits in SC2 just fine. what about all the people who dont used own3d? :O Most casters use justin.tv, and theres tons of people who use ustream, livestream or even other stuff. bro justin.tv has uses a program that you can set delay...
I said in my original post I'm not familiar with streaming sites and if they have delay tools and stuff.
That's great news. Now do people actually use it? O_o
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On April 11 2011 04:41 MasterOfChaos wrote:
IMO stream hacking makes not much sense. You even leave your IP in the log of the streaming site.
You could just put an external maphack on your second monitor and combine it with some alerts on important events. If done correctly that's very hard to detect with antihack tools, and more powerful than streams.
I agree with this. If a player has the opportunity to stream cheat then they also have the opportunity to use actual maphacks. Putting your stream on delay or not streaming at all won't stop a map hacker. You just have to hope you're playing trustworthy opponents.
Or you just go to LANs
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I agree luckyfool, I think i've had this happen to me and at this point I barely have many stream viewers...so it's frightening to think how much more often it happens during tournaments or with more popular streamers.
dunno about others, but that is why i never let any obs in games where i'm being casted, especially if i barely know the person, because there's that chance they are obsing to cheat/whisper the other person, or to give info to the player in-game via vent while watchin the stream...it's basically impossible to tell when this stuff happens tho..
obviously the people that do it are scum
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On April 11 2011 04:41 MasterOfChaos wrote:
IMO stream hacking makes not much sense. You even leave your IP in the log of the streaming site.
Streaming sites aren't going to tell a random tournament that IP xyz was watching during an event, so I don't see how that's relevant.
And OP, watching a stream != hacking. The more popular (and accurate) term is ghosting.
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Ghosting, cheating, hacking, it's all bullshit that gives someone an unfair advantage and is the same to me.
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I remember watching someone doing builds that would counter whatever his opponent had without even scanning. Whilst it could have been intuitive or coincidence, I suppose, I asked if the guy could be cheating and was told that he could be, but probably wasn't. I still didn't believe it.
And last night the thought again occurred to me. I mean how difficult would it be? If you're playing for big money, some people would certainly be tempted to cheat. It's a sad thought. 
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On April 11 2011 04:41 MasterOfChaos wrote:
IMO stream hacking makes not much sense. You even leave your IP in the log of the streaming site.
You could just put an external maphack on your second monitor and combine it with some alerts on important events. If done correctly that's very hard to detect with antihack tools, and more powerful than streams.
You can have a friend watching the stream and have him report what is going on to you over skype. There is no way to detect that.
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A lot of streamers don't implement the delay since they assume people will be genuine, also they would like to pop open stream chat, ask a question, and have it answered and not wait 8 minutes for it.
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On April 11 2011 06:15 Zlasher wrote:
A lot of streamers don't implement the delay since they assume people will be genuine, also they would like to pop open stream chat, ask a question, and have it answered and not wait 8 minutes for it.
That is a pretty ignorant/naive assumption.
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On April 11 2011 06:15 Zlasher wrote:
also they would like to pop open stream chat, ask a question, and have it answered and not wait 8 minutes for it.
I'd say this is the main reason. It's more enjoyable to talk to viewers while playing than to just be secluded and having delays detracts greatly from that.
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On April 11 2011 06:34 Mastermind wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 06:15 Zlasher wrote:
A lot of streamers don't implement the delay since they assume people will be genuine, also they would like to pop open stream chat, ask a question, and have it answered and not wait 8 minutes for it. That is a pretty ignorant/naive assumption.
I don't disagree with this statement.
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On April 11 2011 06:42 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 06:15 Zlasher wrote:
also they would like to pop open stream chat, ask a question, and have it answered and not wait 8 minutes for it. I'd say this is the main reason. It's more enjoyable to talk to viewers while playing than to just be secluded and having delays detracts greatly from that.
Yeah, I mean the reason a streamer streams sometimes is because they want to interact with their viewers, even if that means people on ladder will turn on their stream and cheat against them.
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Germany2896 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:34 Mastermind wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 06:15 Zlasher wrote:
A lot of streamers don't implement the delay since they assume people will be genuine, also they would like to pop open stream chat, ask a question, and have it answered and not wait 8 minutes for it. That is a pretty ignorant/naive assumption.
I think it's a reasonable assumption. Cheaters can cheat without a stream too. So delaying the stream doesn't gain much in terms of preventing cheating put can lose in terms of interaction with viewers. So the trade-off of delaying the stream can be negative. This is different for games where maphack aren't possible, but in SC2 they are.
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EPT
