• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 01:05
CET 07:05
KST 15:05
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced
Tourneys
RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Tenacious Turtle Tussle 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft2.fi 15th Anniversary Cup
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest BW General Discussion FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO8 - Day 1 - Saturday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Fighting Spirit mining rates Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV The 2048 Game Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
How Sleep Deprivation Affect…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1537 users

SC2 Spell casting

Blogs > milikan
Post a Reply
milikan
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States67 Posts
March 20 2011 04:36 GMT
#1
Preface: I remember reading an article here on TL about the effects of the new micro systems in place in SC2, like autosurround, but I don't remember any article specifically addressing the change in casting delay from BW to SC2. The search function didn't get me anything good, so here I am.

Spellcasting is disgustingly easy in SC2, compared to BW. Blanketing the opposing army in perfect storms, EMPs, or fungals is so easy that it's expected of every Master league player. This is because of two fundamental changes from BW: smartcasting and casting delay.

Smartcasting is great. It makes it mechanically 10x less demanding to cast spells in SC2; I may hate a ton of the changes in SC2, but smartcasting is so sexy I just can't help but love it. What smartcasting does, though, is hide a huge, massive change that Blizzard made to the casting mechanics: the removal of casting delay.

In SC1, spellcasters would take a half second to cast the spell after you issued the command. This is sometimes called the animation delay, because the unit goes through the casting animation during this period. This split-second delay is immensely important; it adds another dimension to the game, and one that I very much enjoy watching. Because of this split second delay, you have to predict where the other guy is gonna move his units - is he gonna scoot forwards or backwards? This is akin to football goalies for penalty kicks - they have to predict whether the kicker is going to go for the left or the right side of the goal, and they have that split second before the kick to "read" the kicker.

The "reading" element is one that is common in many different games, and is only possible with that half-second casting delay.. SC2 is mainly a strategy game, where you out-think your opponent - but I really like having this sort of "reading" element in place. It allows the players to fight on a dimension other than pure strategy; you can't prepare for awesome storm dodges by watching an opponent's replays, you have to get better at reading and predicting players in that split second.

In BW, spells feel much more powerful than in SC2, even though they do about the same amount of damage; storm melts marines, and EMP's still rock spellcasting units. But the uncertainty of their effective was what really made them stand out. You never knew if the player was going to throw out an epic storm, dismembering half an army, or one that would wiff and catch nothin' but air. And so, during epic clashes, the audience would lean forward, eyes hungry for storms that could make or break the game.

Now? In SC2, spells are a certainty, and as such can be planned on, and integrated into strategy to a much higher degree of certainty. You know they're going to hit, and you know exactly what is going to happen 3 days before a match when you're going over their replays. You know there's no dodging them, or him messing up; they're just too easy to throw out. "PLAAAAGGGUUUUUU" just ain't gonna happen, 'cause that fungal growth is always going to be perfect.

With that said, spellcasting is still fun to watch in SC2. Watching a bio army get blanketed in storms and end up a big gooey red mess is still cool, but it just lacks the intensity Jangi's or Bisu's perfect storms. And if for some reason Blizzard decided to add back in the casting delay? Well, then, I'd...


****
Seam
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1093 Posts
March 20 2011 04:39 GMT
#2
I really hate to be the one to say it, but it's been discussed to death during the beta.

At the end of the day, SC2 != SC1
I only needed one probe to take down idra. I had to upgrade to a zealot for strelok. - Liquid`Tyler
Turgid
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1623 Posts
March 20 2011 04:51 GMT
#3
The SC2 vs BW threads definitely feel like deja vu... I'm sure you put a lot of thought into this analysis but man have I(we?) heard it a lot.
(╬ ಠ益ಠ)
pyaar
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States423 Posts
March 20 2011 04:55 GMT
#4
I learned how to play SC2 at a high Master's level as my first competitive RTS but I have been learning to play BW on iCCup and LAN with my friends. I really think that although SC2's casting system makes the game much more enjoyable for the vast majority of players, BW's casting (and pathing, for that matter) system makes high level play so much more challenging and thus enjoyable, both for the player and the spectator like the OP said. Cloning, and very technical micro in general, is pretty much nonexistent in SC2.

It'll be a cold day in hell when BW casting or pathing is implemented in SC2, but hey, we can dream
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45149 Posts
March 20 2011 05:08 GMT
#5
I completely agree with you that SC2 is easier mechanically, and all that jazz. However, they're not the same game. I want to play SC2, not SC1 with better graphics.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
March 20 2011 05:10 GMT
#6
On March 20 2011 13:36 milikan wrote:



Now? In SC2, spells are a certainty, and as such can be planned on, and integrated into strategy to a much higher degree of certainty. You know they're going to hit, and you know exactly what is going to happen 3 days before a match when you're going over their replays. You know there's no dodging them, or him messing up; they're just too easy to throw out. "PLAAAAGGGUUUUUU" just ain't gonna happen, 'cause that fungal growth is always going to be perfect.

I have to flat out disagree with this. There's nothing that makes it different except perhaps the terrible pathing in BW(that sure is exciting wondering what path the ai will choose to take?). How is fungal growth always going to be perfect if there's lag in sc2 and not in bw? I just don't see your argument in this area. It seems like you're just bored and projecting or rationalizing your dislike of sc2.
palanq
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States761 Posts
March 20 2011 05:43 GMT
#7
adding casting animations or projectile spells raises skill cap to use spells and adds more opportunity to micro vs them. seems like a good idea if you can balance it.
time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana
Essbee
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada2371 Posts
March 20 2011 06:31 GMT
#8
I personally really enjoy trying to predict someone's next move in a video game. I can give WoW in example: If you played BC when all pvp rogues were shadow step build, there was a neat trick where you predicted when an enemy warrior was going to intercept you and then you casted shadow step at the exact same time and it kind of "glitched" and made you appear behind the initial position of the warrior. It gave you a huge advantage because the warrior couldn't hit you, and if the warrior was able to do so, you were eating a ton of damage. I remember all the excitement I had while watching pro wow players videos when they were doing these kind of tricks. All the prediction thing in video games add another important dimension and you explained it perfectly.

And this is another reason why SC:BW is the best game ever.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 55m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft781
RuFF_SC2 189
trigger 25
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 258
Noble 49
Bale 34
ZergMaN 30
Icarus 10
Dota 2
monkeys_forever435
League of Legends
JimRising 798
C9.Mang089
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor140
Other Games
summit1g8566
hungrybox259
Mew2King73
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1071
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH87
• practicex 31
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Diggity5
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1721
• Lourlo1333
• HappyZerGling76
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
2h 55m
Wardi Open
5h 55m
Monday Night Weeklies
10h 55m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 3h
OSC
2 days
YoungYakov vs Mixu
ForJumy vs TBD
Percival vs TBD
Shameless vs TBD
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
OSC
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
SC Evo League
5 days
[ Show More ]
BSL 21
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
BSL 21
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.