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Hey there everybody,
I was wondering lately why I do not enjoy playing 1v1 matches in Starcraft2. Everytime I think about laddering my body hurts and I dont feel like having fun.
Coming from a FPS community (Unreal Tournament) I was pretty competitive, playing hours and hours every day. And as far as I remember it never felt like practice to me, but fun. As soon as I began playing duels (1v1) I had no fun at all. It felt like hard work, draining all my power, and was very exhausting. Even back then I had the idea in my head to practice my a** off to get better, as I always thought of myself to be a top teamplayer, to get a very good dueler too. But my emotions stood in the way. And I dont get why?
One thing that comes to my mind is that in teamgames it isnt as bad to lose, since it might not be my fault.
Or maybe I just hate to admit that my high-skill picture of myself isnt true at all. Competing internationally in teamgames (TDM) successfully, I just needed me to be skilled enough to be a good dueler, too. But I sucked at it, and I always hated playing crappy versus what I thought at that time to be BAD players.
In Starcraft 2 I watch alot of streams, I read quite some threads on TL, I watch my little brother Daumen getting better and better steadily (winning his first minor cup, yay!). So I feel like I know a lot, but I cant even spit larvae continuously, control more than one controlgroup, etc.
On the other hand I just recently joined some pickup TDM-games on irc, and had a lot of fun again.
How can I love SC2 so much, but hate playing 1v1, and suffer when playing 1v1 generally so much at the same time?
I would really like to enjoy this game!
If RT 2v2 wasnt filled with bad mannered flamers I might have given it a chance, just so much until my mechanics were good enough to have fun in 1v1. (But maybe having the mechanics down is not what is missing for me to have fun in 1v1, in UT i had very good "mechanics", but 1on1 wasnt fun to play at all for me)
I guess a good coach would be a fun way to play the game, but with my small salary is not going to happen 
I'd like to hear your thoughts!
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United Kingdom3685 Posts
On March 18 2011 22:39 mAgixWTF wrote:
One thing that comes to my mind is that in teamgames it isnt as bad to lose, since it might not be my fault.
This is probably a huge factor, and is a big reason why a lot of people play team games rather than 1v1. It's much easier to blame someone else for your loss rather than admit how bad you are.
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Isn't this a question you need to answer for yourself?
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It's a game dude, if you don't actually enjoy yourself playing it, then why do it in the first place?
It sounds like you're trying too hard to improve instead of remembering of why you wanted to play in the first place.
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On March 18 2011 22:43 Sayle wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 22:39 mAgixWTF wrote:
One thing that comes to my mind is that in teamgames it isnt as bad to lose, since it might not be my fault.
This is probably a huge factor, and is a big reason why a lot of people play team games rather than 1v1. It's much easier to blame someone else for your loss rather than admit how bad you are.
Right on the money.
No one enjoys losing, especially if there is no one else to blame for it than yourself.
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On March 18 2011 22:44 gongryong wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 22:43 Sayle wrote:On March 18 2011 22:39 mAgixWTF wrote:
One thing that comes to my mind is that in teamgames it isnt as bad to lose, since it might not be my fault.
This is probably a huge factor, and is a big reason why a lot of people play team games rather than 1v1. It's much easier to blame someone else for your loss rather than admit how bad you are. Right on the money. No one enjoys losing, especially if there is no one else to blame for it than yourself.
Does that mean that some people like winning more than hate losing, and that others, like me, hate losing more than like winning?
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I personally believe it's just easier to cope with defeat when it is a shared experience. I prefer 2v2's and 3v3's over 1v1's for that very reason. I don't feel the need to rage or blame anyone. But sharing the defeat and talking about the game, what went right and wrong, helps me get into the next game.
I recently forced myself to play some 1v1's and I went 7-3 but then I lost 8 matches in a row. Suddenly I didn't want to play SC2 at all! Gave it three days rest before opening SC2 again
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On March 18 2011 22:47 mAgixWTF wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 22:44 gongryong wrote:On March 18 2011 22:43 Sayle wrote:On March 18 2011 22:39 mAgixWTF wrote:
One thing that comes to my mind is that in teamgames it isnt as bad to lose, since it might not be my fault.
This is probably a huge factor, and is a big reason why a lot of people play team games rather than 1v1. It's much easier to blame someone else for your loss rather than admit how bad you are. Right on the money. No one enjoys losing, especially if there is no one else to blame for it than yourself. Does that mean that some people like winning more than hate losing, and that others, like me, hate losing more than like winning?
Exactly how I am. Hate losing more than I like winning. I think its a bad thing TBH. Probably why I don't ladder 1v1 as much.
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On March 18 2011 22:43 Sayle wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 22:39 mAgixWTF wrote:
One thing that comes to my mind is that in teamgames it isnt as bad to lose, since it might not be my fault.
This is probably a huge factor, and is a big reason why a lot of people play team games rather than 1v1. It's much easier to blame someone else for your loss rather than admit how bad you are.
Or because it's fun to own 3-4 people when you are superior, if I lose and know it's because of my mistakes I blame only myself and proceed to be pissed off
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Germany2896 Posts
For me it's the lack of teamspeak. I don't enjoy simply playing SC that much. When talking with friends while playing it's much more fun.
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When I was playing teamgames I always had to schedule the practice dates. And I had to play, or my teammates would be missing one player.
So i guess teamgames have a lot of built-in motivations to go on playing, and that I got accustomed to them, and now lack the cheering of my teammates, the "scheduling pressure", the good feeling I got when playing for the team, not the frags, etc. I just need new motivations!
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Dude.. I feel the same, I hate laddering,I don't enjoy it, but I love playing 1v1's... such a weird situation..... I get to angry when I lose. I know it's just a game but what the hell.
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I play FPS like Crysis but with me I think the 1v1 duels are most important which is why I destroy in those. 1v1 in SC2 is the same for me. However, I stopped playing 1v1 because all I face is lame bronze players who 6pool or cannon rush, so I moved to custom game where I face masters league players or diamond, and if I'm lucky, gold
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On March 18 2011 22:44 gongryong wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 22:43 Sayle wrote:On March 18 2011 22:39 mAgixWTF wrote:
One thing that comes to my mind is that in teamgames it isnt as bad to lose, since it might not be my fault.
This is probably a huge factor, and is a big reason why a lot of people play team games rather than 1v1. It's much easier to blame someone else for your loss rather than admit how bad you are. Right on the money. No one enjoys losing, especially if there is no one else to blame for it than yourself.
You can always blame the opponent for doing something dumb but it caught you off-guard so you lost
On a more serious note IMO you can cope with a loss better if you learn from the mistakes you made during games
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i've been enjoying 1;1 games less and less myself. it just is getting really stressful for me with how easy it is to lose to stupid stuff and these days i'm a full time student with 2 jobs so i don't have that much time to play. i used to play 1;1 in the spare time that i had but now it kind of annoys me. trying to get back on the horse though -.-
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For me, it's the lack of 'social aspect' that makes 1v1 generally much less fun than team games. Even if you barely exchange half a dozen words over the course of a game, there is still a different feel to a team match. On that note, playing 1v1 with someone I know and can discuss games afterwards tends to be a much better experience than just laddering vs randoms.
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My first step will be to step down from my too high expectations to more realistic ones. At first even to not have expectations at all and just observe what happens when I play. No need to win, no need to learn from every mistake i make, no pressure. Just pretend im a scientist in a new enviroment and observe! thats a little advice i just found on this website. Too bad its easier said than done
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i hugely prefer team games over 1v1. not just because its easy to blame the team, but because we are normally on skype etc while playing, a much more social experience
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i would just like to have the option that a friend could obersve me playing ladder while being skype...
that way laddering would make more fun!!
Its just the same as he would sit at my table, so i dont see why it is not implemented. even more firends could obersve me laddering, so after the games they can tell me what i did wrong etc...
it is a function, i guess, would improve the laddering experience for quite a few people out there!
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I used to be like that. The first Strategy-games I played online fairly regularly were RA2 and WC3. I hated 1v1 on both games. When I later on picked up BW again, playing 1v1 was the only natural option, so I got over it eventually.
The problem for me was that I was what I would call a "best case scenario" player. What I mean with that is that I always had a lot of holes in my defense. In WC3 I only played 3v3, and I would always play like this: no scouting, into fast tech, into expand, into mass units. Sure, I would always produce units fairly regularly, but I would always build tech buildings as fast as possible, and I would expand basically with no units to defend it. I relied entirely on my teammates to protect me. When I played under this mindset it lead to very random games, where I would lose most of the time to rushing, and win most of the time against passive players. In 1v1 things would be even more extreme, and I would feel very paranoid when playing.
One thing I had to learn when playing 1v1 BW is the ability to play safe, and as I learned this little by little, I realized that 1v1 isn't as random as it seems. If I just protect myself from any early aggression, I can actually feel in control.
So, it's very likely that you don't like 1v1 because you don't feel in control. You rely too much on hiding behind your teammates for protection, and you need to learn to play more responsively, and dealing with things by adjusting yourself.
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I think you sort of have to suck it up and just play 50ish games. Those first 50-100 games you'll be so out of control of the situation that whether or not you win or lose will depend almost entirely on the mistakes of your opponent, but once you get consistent enough with your play you'll find that you can fairly accurately judge if your opponent is better than you or not. For me, I only am upset when I lose to a player who I feel is inferior to me. If I lose to a player who outplayed me, then it is simply to be expected and exposure to their style will help improve my game. I play a lot of practice games with my friend who is in masters (I'm in diamond) and I rarely win, but when I do it feels like I really earned it, whereas a loss just feels like what I was expecting. Adjusting your expectations that way helps cope with losses I think.
Another good way to motivate yourself to play more 1v1's is instead of playing for the win, to just play for the awesome. The excitement of hoping the marines walk over my burrowed banelings is enough to make me keep playing regardless of whether or not the terran ends up beating me.
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I feel exactly the same way when I lose, I HATE IT so much, and right now I'm trying not to care as much, and think that might be my way into 1v1 again.
After watching Day[9] Daily #269 - Newbie Tuesday: How to get into SC2! (http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4890848/) I feel sort of enlightened that you should force yourself to have fun. If you try a silly build, and lose, it's much easier to say to yourself that it was of that exact reason you lost the game. If you win though, you might get some sort of boost after feeling you have thought out something smart and extraordinary.
Another thing helping me is playing with RL friends 1v1 private matches, while on skype the whole time. You can still talk, and hear your friends missery when you banebust his contain and kill him. Of course you lose here too, but it's much easier to cope with once you know you are good friends and you feel you still make progress none the less.
To sum it up, play enjoyable games with friends, and try not to care about losses. It's a healthy sign you want to perform brilliantly every single time, but even champions of GSL have lost 800 times, so everybody does sometimes - Don't feel ashamed or embarressed, it's a part of it all.
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Why dont you try and find friends either here on teamliquid, or in the sc2 chat channels, rather than doing RT 2v2. Odds are you can find someone close to your skill level who is also super eager to start playing some teamgames.
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Maybe 1v1 just isn't for you? There isn't anything wrong in just playing team games if that is what you enjoy.
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The answer is that you're a casual gamer. You don't like losing and you take it really personally, so you try to play games where there isn't as much of a stigma to losing.
If you played with a friend, you'd probably find 1v1 a lot more fun, given that losing is less stigmatized with friends.
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There are way too many good games out there to sit around and play a game you don't enjoy. I think you like the idea of the game more than the game itself.
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Hey Nuke, you are actually one of the reasons i got hooked on starcraft in the first place. I used to watch all of your broodwar vods!
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Just don't make Starcraft that serious! Play for fun. All my master league friends were very casual players looking to have a good time and ended up being quite decent players. ^.^
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A lot of people are like this. Personally I was only playing 1v1 to get the shiny Master badge.
I enjoy teaming because I find it less stressful when I lose, like it doesn't matter. Also you can have many different teams (2v2, 2v2R, 3v3 etc) and you can switch between them. With 1v1 you have only 1 account so when you play you are always trying to 'preserve' it, play your best to keep up your rank and record, making the game more pressure-filled, exhausting and stressful.
If I make a mistake in a team game I'm just like "w/e just a team game".
If I make the same mistake in a 1v1 it's like "shit now I have to win a game to even out that loss"
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EPT
