• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:41
CET 21:41
KST 05:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy5ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13
Community News
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool30Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains18
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Serral: 24’ EWC form was hurt by military service Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Team League Season 10 KSL Week 87 [GSL CK] #2: Team Classic vs. Team Solar
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death Mutation # 515 Together Forever
Brood War
General
Buy weed dexies in Australia (WhatsApp 0480852135) BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL21 General Discussion Gypsy to Korea JaeDong's form before ASL
Tourneys
[BSL22] Open Qualifiers & Ladder Tours [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 IPSL Spring 2026 is here!
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Mexico's Drug War
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2040 users

(D&D) A Wild Bugbear Appears!

Blogs > Tzel
Post a Reply
Tzel
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States72 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-13 01:22:35
March 13 2011 01:15 GMT
#1
Players and their Characters
+ Show Spoiler +
Ted - halfling ranger
Zen - half-elf bard
Walten - Elven Wizard
Damien - Half-orc Barbarian
Ren - dwarf cleric
David - half-elf cleric


The title's relevant because Black and White just came out Sunday and Walten decided it would be a good idea to memorize the entire Gen V pokedex, and bugbears as they found out, are fun. That is, when you manage to one-shot them.

Well. We're moving along in the Scourge of the Howling Horde - combat is moving faster, people are starting to understand some things better. Ted pretty much one-shots anything that he manages to hit (the 'you have to exceed the AC of your opponent with your accuracy roll' thing still doesn't make much sense to me but I go with it)

Expand for our progress in the campaign:

+ Show Spoiler +

They enter the cave with two dogs down, but since the dogs saw them and alerted the goblins, I had them stay in the cave and attempt to get higher ground. It works out decently - Damien gets hit a couple times because he runs into the cave and invokes an attack of opportunity from all six guards that were waiting inside the cave as he rushes in, but he's only down about 11 health. With two clerics that's nothing. He and Ted clean up all six nicely, Ted either one-shotting them to death or rendering them unconscious and Damien doing some decent damage; he got a crit on one of them and ended up doing about 43 damage (Goblins only have 4-6 health). I start frowning, since they're pretty much OP as shit as long as they do well on their accuracy roll.

They get past the guardroom, which is now empty because they alerted all the guards, sent them into the entrance chamber to help out the other two who were waiting in the shadows, and then killed all six in about a span of 30 in-game seconds....and make their way down the hall. I was going to redraw the map as they got to certain rooms so they didn't see the entire thing, but I gave up and just used a cover sheet instead, which was a horrible, horrible idea. They were able to see parts that they shouldn't have been able to see and whether Zen admits it or not, it at least had a subconscious affect on what direction he wanted to go.

The corridor after the guardroom looked like a +, with them coming from the western direction. even though I drew out their cone of vision, I wasn't able to move the paper in a way that would hide what they couldn't see, so Zen decided to go left instead of right - which would have been fine. However, they got into an argument on which way to go, and Damien wanted to turn right, which just messed everyone up. Their party dynamics are horrible! Damien's trying to be a low-witted barbarian, but he doesn't realize that some decisions for the character should be made with the intellect of yourself, not the character. The party's yelling at Damien for going right when everyone else is going left, and I can feel the friction between the players growing, so I intervene. I had made them do a listen check earlier, and a couple had made over 20, so I decided that the best way to solve the problem would be to make the bugbear down the right corridor growl happily. It does the trick, and the whole party turns and moves in that direction.

They kind of freak out over the fact that the door is locked and there's a sign on the door that says "Big Bronk's Room", and actually approach with caution. Damien gets out his battering ram (I probably should have mentioned to them that there was a 15 DC strength check, so he didn't really have to do that), and after some probably horrible DMing of the damage to the door, they break inside. As they're doing this, and making all that noise, Big Bronk got up from his lair of leather or cloth or whatever, and is standing in front of the door waiting. When they bash inside, Zen does a quick diplomacy check to make him turn indifferent, and then Ted shoots from beside Damien using an attack of opportunity...and does 17 damage. Big Bronk's health was only 16. Big Bronk was intended to be a sort of mini-boss for the party, and it was rather disappointing how quickly he dies.



I stop the session there, since Walten had to leave early. Everyone leaves, everyone's mostly happy, and then I log onto facebook to check on the group's wall. Damien sounds a little distressed about the incident I mentioned earlier when everyone is yelling at him for going the other way (as well as many other in-character impulses throughout the campaign that get squashed) and posts something on the wall about it. Ensue 50+ comments about it, mostly between Walten and Damien, but eventually involving pretty much everyone except Ren about the party dynamics.

However, somewhere in all those comments, it comes into light how OP Damien and Ted are. I'd been calculating damage as hit die + BAB + dex/str modifier...at least, I thought I was. They were both getting damage counts of ten or above most of the time, with the minimum (assuming they hit) being about five on Damien, and twelve on Ted. Enough to one-shot or almost one-shot a goblin with 4 or 6 HP. What do? Ted copypasta's the section in the PHB about attack bonuses and such, so I get confirmation that I'm doing the rolls pretty accurately. Is there something else I'm missing? Something to do with their armor that I should be subtracting? There's got to be something. There's no way level two characters should be doing this much damage. The CR ratings on the goblins are 2!

tl;dr: being a DM is difficult. All the blame for any sort of error in the campaign can be traced back to you. All of it.

Also, thank you all for your comments and suggestions :3 I posted this earlier in the day because I wanted to actually stay up and respond to comments this time instead of falling asleep... if you asked me something in the previous entry, I did post a response the next day in there.

EDIT: lessened the wall of text a bit. I also texted Ted and asked him what he had for his BAB, since his minimum damage is just way too much. He had it down as eleven...so that's part of the problem. There's a chart on page 22 of the PHB that lists the BAB of classes - a ranger's BAB is two no wonder!

I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it.
firexfred
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States78 Posts
March 13 2011 02:59 GMT
#2
I'm not sure what you are reading in the PHB, if you could maybe copy a bit here it might help. But in general, damage for melee is Str + weapon damage. As far as I know hit die + BAB + dex/str is nothing. BAB + str (melee)/dex(ranged) is how you calculate whether or not you hit.

The idea behind AC is whether you can use your physical ability (Str/dex) and your ability to attack (BAB) to hit someone or something who is armored and trying to not be hit(aka dodge out of the way). This is why AC is 10 + armor + dex + any bonuses be they magical bonuses or feats or whatever.
Tzel
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States72 Posts
March 13 2011 03:13 GMT
#3
This is what it says in the PHB:

ATTACK BONUS
Your attack bonus with a melee weapon is:
Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + size modifier
With a ranged weapon, your attack bonus is:
Base attack bonus + Dexterity modifier + size modifier
+ range penalty

ATTACK ROLL
An attack roll represents your attempt to strike your opponent on
your turn in a round. When you make an attack roll, you roll a d20
and add your attack bonus. (Other modifiers may also apply to this
roll.) If your result equals or beats the target’s Armor Class, you hit
and deal damage.
Automatic Misses and Hits: A natural 1 (the d20 comes up 1)
on an attack roll is always a miss. A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20)
is always a hit. A natural 20 is also a threat—a possible critical hit
(see the Critical Hits sidebar, page 140).



oh, so that means that the attack bonus goes into the attack roll which is the accuracy roll...I'm an idiot x.x When you say that damage for melee is str + weapon damage, it would be dex + weapon damage for ranged, right? I suppose that does make more sense
I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it.
firexfred
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States78 Posts
March 13 2011 05:11 GMT
#4
You only add str to melee and thrown weapon attacks. Not bow or crossbow (unless the bow specifies otherwise) You never add dex to damage.

If you think about it, having more strength would make you hit harder with a sword or throw something harder, but having more dexterity won't make an arrow fly faster or hit harder.
Cuddle
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden1345 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-13 07:28:54
March 13 2011 07:26 GMT
#5
nvm, didn't read properly.
Klockan3
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Sweden2866 Posts
March 13 2011 13:20 GMT
#6
On March 13 2011 14:11 firexfred wrote:
You only add str to melee and thrown weapon attacks. Not bow or crossbow (unless the bow specifies otherwise) You never add dex to damage.

If you think about it, having more strength would make you hit harder with a sword or throw something harder, but having more dexterity won't make an arrow fly faster or hit harder.

You can get str bonuses with composite bows.
firexfred
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States78 Posts
March 13 2011 21:32 GMT
#7
Hence me saying "unless the bow specifies otherwise." Composite bows would be an example of that
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-13 22:31:41
March 13 2011 22:26 GMT
#8
Note that the Strength bonus to damage is modified by the weapon type: two-handed weapons get 1.5x the Strength bonus to damage, while off-hand weapons get only half the Strength bonus.

Also, while you normally don't add Strength bonuses to damage dealt with a bow, you DO subtract the Strength penalty (if the character's Strength is less than 10).

With regard to the strength of Damien and Ted, that tends to be a problem with D&D--character strength doesn't progress evenly. Fighters and Barbarians are super-strong from 1-5, but tend to not scale up really well in longer campaigns. By contrast, playing a level 1-5 caster with all of 3-5 spells per day is somewhat dull, but they become super-broken at higher level progressions.

Personally, this is why levels 7-12 are my favorite level range (and I recall reading somewhere that it tended to be peoples' favorite level range for D&D 3.5). That's the level range where, as a DM, you don't need to get too bogged down worrying about people being too strong or too weak. Also, levels 7-12 generally line up best with what one might consider a reasonable power level for a traditional high-fantasy adventure.
Moderator
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL
20:00
S22 - Ladder Tour #2
LiquipediaDiscussion
LAN Event
16:30
StarCraft Madness
Airneanach106
Liquipedia
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
15:55
FSL semifinals: PTB vs ASH
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
elazer 276
Nathanias 75
JuggernautJason68
UpATreeSC 65
CosmosSc2 55
Ketroc 42
Vindicta 39
StarCraft: Brood War
EffOrt 549
Horang2 481
Shuttle 327
ggaemo 154
Dewaltoss 105
hero 93
Free 90
ZZZero.O 72
ivOry 13
SilentControl 10
Dota 2
monkeys_forever312
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m5004
shoxiejesuss837
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu546
Khaldor508
MindelVK20
Other Games
Grubby3224
FrodaN2241
JimRising 464
byalli448
ToD150
Hui .76
Trikslyr57
ceh90
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick886
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream121
Other Games
BasetradeTV28
StarCraft 2
angryscii 24
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 22 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 27
• printf 23
• LUISG 9
• Reevou 6
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
• intothetv
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 16
• Azhi_Dahaki10
• Pr0nogo 2
• Michael_bg 2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21311
• WagamamaTV857
Other Games
• imaqtpie1070
• Shiphtur235
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
13h 19m
herO vs MaxPax
Rogue vs TriGGeR
BSL
23h 19m
Replay Cast
1d 3h
Replay Cast
1d 12h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 13h
Sharp vs Scan
Rain vs Mong
Wardi Open
1d 15h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 20h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Soulkey vs Ample
JyJ vs sSak
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
hero vs YSC
Larva vs Shine
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
WardiTV Team League
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Team League
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Cure vs Zoun
WardiTV Team League
6 days
BSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-20
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
NationLESS Cup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
2026 Changsha Offline CUP
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.