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I've noticed that the dynamics of BW compared to SC2 are very different (yes, I'm still making the transition). Most importantly is that the initial scouting SCV tends to have only 1 role, which is to find the location of your opponent. Afterwards, he is quickly booted out of the base by zerglings or stalker and that's that. As a result, a lot of players tend to just run their SCV home after finding their opponent and never scout again.
So here is my Gimmicky build: a quick fast hidden expo. Simple right? If there is an island, you lift your CC there. If not, I have have found that you can still get away with it more often than not.
The dynamics of SC2 seem to have discouraged people from scouting, which is why this build works. I'm sure I will get a lot of "You noob! This will never work on me!" replies, but that is besides the point. I'm merely inviting whoever reading this thread to give it a try. This "build" doesn't have a BO - it's just a concept. But if you play it smart by doing the little things (ie: deny scouting of your main, check for cheese/4gate/baneling bust etc.) you'll be pleasantly surprised with the results, even in Masters league.
 
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The problem with that gimmick is that you're taking the risk of not being found. Once you're found, good luck trying to defend it with as much ease as it is for the enemy to attack you or your main.
Nydus worms must just adore you.
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I guess my point wasn't very clear. This is more of a rant about people not scouting enough.
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I can understand your point to be fair and think it will work great vs protoss or terran (zerg not so much because i do expect overlords to be at each base but maybe its doable at the time you expand), but i do agree the initial scout seems to just be check that hes not proxying, look for possible cheese and count gas.
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The dynamics encourage scouting by giving each race the ease to scout:
Overlords
Creep
Changelings
Sensor Towers
Observer
Scans
Xel'Naga Towers
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Its definitely a gimmick, as you mentioned yourself, but it can work for sure.
In my experience, i rarely scout ALL the bases on the map early on. If i'm against zerg I will usually have a hallucinated Phoenix zooming around the map as soon as possible. Against terran or another protoss, I honestly do not scout those bases until later in the game. If I get the sense that something fishy is going on then I may, but typically I will only start scouting those bases (and building pylons there) past the 10-15 minute mark.
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On February 14 2011 08:22 Torte de Lini wrote:
The dynamics encourage scouting by giving each race the ease to scout:
Overlords
Creep
Changelings
Sensor Towers
Observer
Scans
Xel'Naga Towers
And you can scout hidden expansions with workers too. My point is people don't do it.
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On February 14 2011 08:31 Capulet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2011 08:22 Torte de Lini wrote:
The dynamics encourage scouting by giving each race the ease to scout:
Overlords
Creep
Changelings
Sensor Towers
Observer
Scans
Xel'Naga Towers
And you can scout hidden expansions with workers too. My point is people don't do it.
You should use that you advantage by teching to something that would give you a lead with less risk (banshees, blue-flame heilion early harass, DTs).
FEing to a dangerous area is great, but the risk is unnecessary.
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Any good player would be able to tell that something is wrong because your army size is much smaller/tech is slower than what it should be. A well executed timing push would just roll you.
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On February 14 2011 08:46 da_head wrote:
Any good player would be able to tell that something is wrong because your army size is much smaller/tech is slower than what it should be. A well executed timing push would just roll you.
He's doing this based on the notion that his opponent(s) are not scouting.
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MVP and Choya both did this in GSL last season. MKP tried it as well.
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Far away expansions work both ways.
Say its close positions on metalopolis and you expand to your close by air base. You opponent must go all the way to the other side of the map to attack it whereas his base is extremely vulnerable to a counterattack since you are close positions.
Is it better than your natural? Most of the times no, but it's not as bad as you may think.
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I think your biggest risk is the fact that tons of players just do blind timing pushes / all-in's without any consideration of what their opponent is doing.
Which is kind of bad for you.
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how about both players secret-expoing? That would be funny.
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On February 14 2011 09:02 Turgid wrote:
MVP and Choya both did this in GSL last season. MKP tried it as well.
Really? Do you know which games? I'm curious about their versions of the build.
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I got flamed for making this point on the SC2 official forums (post beta). I even offered a possible solution to this problem. A simple small increase in worker speed (which would be offset by a slight increase in mining delay) would make a huge positive impact on the early game and the transition into the mid game.
What if a scouting worker was the same speed as a slow ling? (sound like SC?)
- Marines, Stalkers, and Lings/queens would still be able to kill scouts, but it will actually require micro to remove the worker in a timely fashion.
- Scouting micro will be worth something. A scouting player now has ability to attempt to actually scout after the first stalker, lings, or marine have come out.
- Workers will be able to maintain some sense of map control. They can no longer be removed from the map easily by a ling, marines, or a stalker. What if a second scouting worker/rescout actually was worth something? How dare I.
I honestly was confused the first time I played the multitask trainer. Why is the ling not killing my worker? At that point I realized how much scouting in SC2 sucks.
I think I'll go make a forum post to see what TL thinks.
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On February 14 2011 11:01 Capulet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2011 09:02 Turgid wrote:
MVP and Choya both did this in GSL last season. MKP tried it as well. Really? Do you know which games? I'm curious about their versions of the build.
+ Show Spoiler +MKP vs MVP on Metal
MVP vs TheBest on Scrap Station
Choya vs Hyperdub on Metalopolis
Ugggh I feel like such a goober for being able to do that off the top of my head.
I think you could also count Rainbow vs MC as an attempt at it, but it was a poorly considered one and it didn't go well.
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EPT
