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So over the past 2 weeks I've been playing more and more starcraft 2... A lot of 2v2s with friends, a fair share of 1v1s. The 2v2s (and sometimes 3v3s) I don't take quite seriously but I try to use them to improve macroing off more than 2 base, building unit comps, BOs, etc so that when I get into 1v1 I can actually do well.
But then suddenly I go into 1v1 and get SHIT on. Its not quite that I'm terrible, its just, I'm getting matched with bronzes with literally 200-300 games played (I've played maybe 80?) of JUST 1v1 (I've played 24 1v1). I'm doing well but all my victories were just people that failed at doing...stuff. I'm a Protoss player because I can't seem to figure out Zerg (Though i'd like to eventually) and as satisfying as it is to a-move with my marauders, I don't enjoy Terran as much. Although, I do feel that macroing with terran and keeping mins low is easier  .
Basically how do I get better as P playing in bronze . I keep playing but I just get these people that are clearly better than me and I lose. What openings are good for PvT? Because 3 gate robo feels really weird when they show up with marines. How do I improve my map awareness, multitasking, and scouting vs T? Against Zerg I often either get hit by early roaches and I can hold it or lose. vP, its 4 gate battles or some weird stuff involving me, 4 gates, and a robo and +1. .
Be nice if you could help. Juliette.599 if you'd like to play ^^ (maybe not 1v1...)
 
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I hate to be that guy, but.. you'll get the best feedback if you post a replay. If you're in bronze league then there's probably an easily identifiable general part of your play that you need to focus on that someone can spot for you and offer a good way to practice it.
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Juliette you probably need to mostly work on your macro. Macro and game mechanics are the problems most players face until at least high platinum or diamond.
If you haven't you really really should watch of the lower level oriented Day9 Dailies. Day9 has several of them, but one that you might want to look at to start is one on starcraft mechanics ->
http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4712303/
Besides that as protoss in bronze I'd suggest sticking with safe builds since you can get cheesed a lot. I would suggest trying to mostly learn PvT and PvZ. In PvP going 4gate makes the most sense as it will help you get good at that build and let you work on the other two more.
Do 3gate robo vs terran every game until you are at least plat. It can be hard to judge how good ur mechanics are (and you need good mechanics before you start doing super fancy builds!) if you are doing a lot of different builds.
Vs Zerg try doing either 4gate or 3gate into expand. Either of those are very safe builds against most zerg openers.
If you don't have precise build order for those look on the liqupedia 2 protoss section:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Protoss_Strategy
Good luck getting out of bronze!
Alternity
http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/298789/Alternity
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As another hopeless bronze player who gets frustrated with PvT, I'd say don't take advice about macro super seriously. Most games I'm not having trouble keeping minerals low and I die having more workers than them. It sounds like you at least know what's up with macro (putting it into practise is another issue) but I don't think "improve your macro and you'll get to plat/diamond" is very true.
What I'm trying to say is, when most people say macro that's what comes to mind, keeping resources low and worker counts up. But more important, and easy to gloss over when you're looking at the stats screen after DEFEAT are even more basic things. Having a good BO and being never supply blocked. I know I still do dumb stuff like forgetting pylons, or messing up the BO, and this hurts far more, especially when every PvT player at bronze level does nothing but build marines and marauders off 1 base all game. I haven't experimented with rushing collosus yet but I get the feeling that's the ticket at this level.
Or, solidifying a FE build that survives is probably even better, because I assume it's more useful for higher ranks too, and once you hold off the early crap from those Bronze terrans I'm sure you'll outmacro them.
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On February 11 2011 12:44 Turbovolver wrote:
As another hopeless bronze player who gets frustrated with PvT, I'd say don't take advice about macro super seriously. Most games I'm not having trouble keeping minerals low and I die having more workers than them. It sounds like you at least know what's up with macro (putting it into practise is another issue) but I don't think "improve your macro and you'll get to plat/diamond" is very true.
What I'm trying to say is, when most people say macro that's what comes to mind, keeping resources low and worker counts up. But more important, and easy to gloss over when you're looking at the stats screen after DEFEAT are even more basic things. Having a good BO and being never supply blocked. I know I still do dumb stuff like forgetting pylons, or messing up the BO, and this hurts far more, especially when every PvT player at bronze level does nothing but build marines and marauders off 1 base all game. I haven't experimented with rushing collosus yet but I get the feeling that's the ticket at this level.
Or, solidifying a FE build that survives is probably even better, because I assume it's more useful for higher ranks too, and once you hold off the early crap from those Bronze terrans I'm sure you'll outmacro them.
But macro is not getting supplying blocked and not messing up build orders...
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Nony used to say that almost every strat forum question could be answered with 'you need to play faster.' That was for BW a few years ago, but I'm sure it applies to SC2 now. If it feels like you don't have enough units, or your tech isn't coming in time, it's probably because you're getting it slow. You will probably see massive improvements just by doing little things to be more efficient, such as sending your probe to make something so that when it arrives to make that something, you have just enough money to make it. Stuff like not suddenly realising you have a lot of money you didn't bother to spend. Stuff like not getting pylon stuck.
I don't know SC2 very well, but if you are in bronze league this is probably the source of most of your problems. Know what you are going to do before you do it, so that you can work on doing those things as fast as possible. That is how you master the basics.
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It's worth saying that 2v2's are really counter productive to your skill...or at least that's how I feel. Oh wells.
Anywho, watching replays and streams helps a lot, and just FORCING yourself to go faster, even if its just by mass spamming, will eventually help your multitasking in the long run. You basically need to constantly be reminding yourself to do other things until it becomes second nature.
In terms of build orders - either be creative and try to get a feel for how to improve your build by watching replays, or copy the openings of build orders from pros ;].
As a zerg, I suppose I can help you (i'm diamond, but i'm pretty rubbish / I can give advice :O) comeh.198 if you're bored I suppose.
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I usually have a general build order for the beginning but after a while I kinda just go with, well I have money for this gateway without cutting a probe i'm gonna build it (it comes in around normal time I think) and other things. 2v2 works for learning to build a 200/200 army :p.
For playing faster, I try but my APM is only like, 50-60~? Not terrible I think but i guess I need to play more and get more used to everything .
Its not really frustration at terrans more as I'm confused as to what exactly to do. Cause when I get my obs out half the time they have a turret to deny scouting . when i do see what they're building I can counter with good FFs generally when i engage. But i'm always scared of getting my army killed when i'm out in the open so I don't poke as much as I should.
I watch a lot of SC2 actually, which is where I get most of what to do from . I'll watch that daily though, thanks ^^.
How do I work on efficiency for builds? just doing them over and over? and does learning just one build per matchup to start with help me overall? ^^
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Post a few replays and we'll be able to tell you what to be able to improve on.
You can upload replays to www.mediafire.com
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I believe that to get out of bronze you need a somewhat multi-faceted approach because there are a lot of things working against you.
1. Mechanics/Macro - This is key and even though it is hard to believe as a beginner once you accept it, it really does take you quite far. Understanding it is tough because while it appears simple at first, there really are a lot of things to do. Some of the common pitfalls of macro that disguise things are:
Building supply before you need it
Building buildings you can't constantly produce out of
Getting a second gas too soon
Getting tech you don't intend to constantly produce
Making small mistakes with missing workers/supply/macro mechanic
Not expanding
2. Expansions - as a beginner these seem really tricky and prone to dying. So I found the easiest way to overcome this is to do your 1-base "all-in" build for a while such as 4-gate or 3-rax stim or bling bust leaving your base at 7ish minutes. The goal should be to have a 50+ food army at 7-min. This requires good 1-base macro to achieve.
Once you are comfortable getting the units out at 7-minutes you can expand behind the push and work on 2-base macro.
3. Defending cheese / all-in - this just takes time and experience, learning to make a good wall-in and when and where cannons are needed. When you lose to one watch the replay and search the forums for a thread on how to defend it. There are millions out there but unfortunately you need the losses to know how to do it right.
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5 of my most recent 1v1s:
http://www.mediafire.com/?yobzzpc2pbp24yk
Eeryck, I'll try that goal for number 2 :o. 50 supply army with 7 mins?
Also looking back at some of those replays now a big problem of mine is not doing much with my army, which kinda just sits there and then gets stimmed into and I don't FF and react fast enough.
I'd appreciate if anyone took a look :p
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play more games dude. and i mean a LOT MORE 1v1 games. i dont think playing 2v2 will improve your skills as a 1v1 player. watch your replay and learn from there. so by the time you play your next game, just apply what you haven't done in the previous games. we all start as a newbie and by constantly practicing and learn from our mistakes, we WILL improve.
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I watched some of the replays and some things you need to improve on:
Your first probe usually isn't built until the 5-8 second mark.You should build your probe first before sending your workers to mine.
I'm not sure what your mindset is on chronoboost, you seem to save it up to 90 and than use it all at once quite often. You always want to be using it on probes at the early stages of the game (after your first pylon, after first gateway, and after first gas).
You let your probes idle a lot. After building your first pylon @ nine supply, you should send your probe back to mining or send it to scout. Try using shift click so that your probe always goes back to mining after building something.
Your gateways / production facilities generally should always be building something / or on cooldown. You miss warpgate cooldowns so your minerals build up and you fall behind in army value.
Try and focus on macro more than micro. You let your minerals pile up to ~1000 while you were attacking that protoss on Xel Naga.
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On February 11 2011 12:52 dcberkeley wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2011 12:44 Turbovolver wrote:
As another hopeless bronze player who gets frustrated with PvT, I'd say don't take advice about macro super seriously. Most games I'm not having trouble keeping minerals low and I die having more workers than them. It sounds like you at least know what's up with macro (putting it into practise is another issue) but I don't think "improve your macro and you'll get to plat/diamond" is very true.
What I'm trying to say is, when most people say macro that's what comes to mind, keeping resources low and worker counts up. But more important, and easy to gloss over when you're looking at the stats screen after DEFEAT are even more basic things. Having a good BO and being never supply blocked. I know I still do dumb stuff like forgetting pylons, or messing up the BO, and this hurts far more, especially when every PvT player at bronze level does nothing but build marines and marauders off 1 base all game. I haven't experimented with rushing collosus yet but I get the feeling that's the ticket at this level.
Or, solidifying a FE build that survives is probably even better, because I assume it's more useful for higher ranks too, and once you hold off the early crap from those Bronze terrans I'm sure you'll outmacro them. But macro is not getting supplying blocked and not messing up build orders...
It's almost like I talked about this in my post. That it is a part of macro but one that's not well conveyed by the SC2 stats, nor how the word "macro" get used at the higher levels of play (where not missing pylons and not messing up BOs are taken as givens).
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On February 11 2011 12:44 Turbovolver wrote:
As another hopeless bronze player who gets frustrated with PvT, I'd say don't take advice about macro super seriously. Most games I'm not having trouble keeping minerals low and I die having more workers than them. It sounds like you at least know what's up with macro (putting it into practise is another issue) but I don't think "improve your macro and you'll get to plat/diamond" is very true.
I started in bronze originally and just got promoted to plat yesterday so maybe my word will mean something on this. "Improve your macro" is probably the best advice you can get. That said, I agree that it leaves a lot to be desired as it doesn't really give you a lot of pointers on how to actually do that.
From my own experience, I fumbled around a lot with zerg before switching to protoss. I thought I had a good idea of what to build based on reading the various articles on the Internet and watching Husky/dl'ing replays but in a game, I just kind of built things as I remembered/had minerals to do so. It did not work very well.
The best advice for a beginner is to watch Day[9]'s dailies. Yes, Artosis is much more in-depth but Day[9] is much more geared towards the beginner and his thoughts will give you some insight into the basics of how you should be thinking about your game and how build orders actually work.
For build orders, do yourself a favor and get good at 4-gating. It's a strong build that doesn't require a huge amount of finesse to win, especially at the bronze/silver level. Don't worry about harassing your opponent. Don't worry about scouting beyond the minimum necessary to find your opponent. After you find him, pull the probe back home immediately; don't poke around to try to figure out his build. You need to be focussing on getting your build order down in a game situation. When your 4 gate is ready, attack and bring a probe to build the forward pylon. Don't worry about expanding; just throw your units into the meat grinder and macro, macro, macro until your macro is solid.
The main point of all this is to keep it simple. Focus on one or two things at a time. Macro is the basic fundamental skill that everything else builds on so this is where to start. Don't bother trying to micro like a pro or execute multi-point drops or fast expands or anything fancy. After your games, review the games against the following goals:
- Don't get supply blocked
- Constantly build probes (until 20 for the all-in 4 gate)
- All unit producing builds are always producing
- Don't let your minerals get above 500
Don't worry about anything else in your replay. If you're making one mistake over and over, focus on that in the next set of games. No one starts out playing like a pro; it doesn't do us any good when we're learning to try to emulate them since our skills aren't at their level.
After your macro is solid, then you can start figuring out when to expand and how to scout properly. Honestly, you'll lose some games if you take this advice since there'll be games where you get cheesed or where you run out of minerals in your main but you'll win A LOT more than you lose just by hammering your opponent into the ground. More importantly, it gives you a chance to really focus on the basics of your game without being distracted. Personally, once my macro starting getting stronger, I started to find out that a lot of what I thought was necessary, such as great micro/FF use/unit comp, didn't really matter as I was outmassing my opponents by so much I could steamroll them with the "wrong" units.
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On February 11 2011 17:15 supernovice007 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2011 12:44 Turbovolver wrote:
As another hopeless bronze player who gets frustrated with PvT, I'd say don't take advice about macro super seriously. Most games I'm not having trouble keeping minerals low and I die having more workers than them. It sounds like you at least know what's up with macro (putting it into practise is another issue) but I don't think "improve your macro and you'll get to plat/diamond" is very true.
I started in bronze originally and just got promoted to plat yesterday so maybe my word will mean something on this. "Improve your macro" is probably the best advice you can get. That said, I agree that it leaves a lot to be desired as it doesn't really give you a lot of pointers on how to actually do that. - Don't get supply blocked - Constantly build probes (until 20 for the all-in 4 gate) - All unit producing builds are always producing - Don't let your minerals get above 500 After your macro is solid, then you can start figuring out when to expand and how to scout properly. Honestly, you'll lose some games if you take this advice since there'll be games where you get cheesed or where you run out of minerals in your main but you'll win A LOT more than you lose just by hammering your opponent into the ground. More importantly, it gives you a chance to really focus on the basics of your game without being distracted. Personally, once my macro starting getting stronger, I started to find out that a lot of what I thought was necessary, such as great micro/FF use/unit comp, didn't really matter as I was outmassing my opponents by so much I could steamroll them with the "wrong" units.
Or you could actually learn how to play your race and become good... Took me 15 games of dealing with trash strategies like this to become diamond.
I've watched all of your rep's. Probe production is a huge problem. Also how you use your first probes is a problem you will need to fix. The split at the start puts you at an immediate disadvantage... Don't leave the probe you used to make your pylon next to it, either send it to scout the other base or bring it back to the mineral line - same goes for your assim at 14. You don't chrono enough in the early game. You miss warp-in's pretty regularly and can not yet distinguish when you should attack/micro/retreat and it seems you pick retreat quite a few times when you have a fight won. (strange PvP rep) your 1 immortal would have won a fight for you in the early game but you ran away instead and it got sniped as you ran.
In one game your probe production was far superior to the player you were against but you didn't make enough production buildings and had a bit of trouble dealing with him because of it. Probe saturation seems like an issue as well (strange PvP rep)
There is more but it's a moderately sized post already... Macro is very important... you could just 4 gate as said above but I find learning how to tech and expand is much more important as you get better lol - call me crazy. Good Luck.
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On February 11 2011 20:08 OmniEulogy wrote:
Or you could actually learn how to play your race and become good... Took me 15 games of dealing with trash strategies like this to become diamond.
This is a very unfair statement to a struggling beginner. Yes for the long term 4-gating is not a good strategy. However, by doing it for 10-15 games and ROFLstomping other bronzies, it starts to give you some ideas of what you can have and also what you need to be able to defend. Once this builds your confidence some it becomes easier to FE and take some map control, move your army out of your base etc.
I tried learning terran as 1-1-1 when I started and was getting rolled, but I wanted to be a macro player. It wasn't until I optimized my 3-rax stim push that I started to understand what I needed to have out unit wise and how to get it. The 50+ food at 7-minutes 3-rax with stim and concussive just obliterated every bronze player I faced.
So then I progressed to into a 3-rax stim push with a very safe 7-minute expo and continued to ROFLstomp Bronze and Silver players.
This allowed me to get into my current build that is a 2-rax expand then get gas, 3rd rax and tech. Because of my progression in builds I know when I am a little light on units. I also know when my units are going to way overpower a 1-baser. Now continuing to refine my macro I will continue to see progress. I am able to do it with confidence though because I know how to survive the early game. (for the most part) =)
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On February 12 2011 00:41 Eeryck wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2011 20:08 OmniEulogy wrote:
Or you could actually learn how to play your race and become good... Took me 15 games of dealing with trash strategies like this to become diamond.
This is a very unfair statement to a struggling beginner. Yes for the long term 4-gating is not a good strategy. However, by doing it for 10-15 games and ROFLstomping other bronzies, it starts to give you some ideas of what you can have and also what you need to be able to defend. Once this builds your confidence some it becomes easier to FE and take some map control, move your army out of your base etc. =)
Watch the replay's before you say it is an unfair statement. I left the smiley in your quote  lol
I'm aware it's a cruel statement but after playing Protoss for 10+ years I've become disgusted by people who 4 gate and don't seem to realize they can build another nexus.
Anyway... OT: You get your obs out and scout with them but it seems like you do it without knowing the real reason why... you see their army but don't seem to understand what to do when you see them... the 2nd ff rep is a pretty good sign of that =/ instead of massing stalkers you make 8 sentry's when you don't have much of an army that do almost nothing vs 38 marines and 10 marauders. He is on one base and you have your expansion as well
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Not sure how this post was created Can a mod remove it for me? lol ty >.>
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On February 12 2011 00:41 Eeryck wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2011 20:08 OmniEulogy wrote:
Or you could actually learn how to play your race and become good... Took me 15 games of dealing with trash strategies like this to become diamond.
This is a very unfair statement to a struggling beginner. Yes for the long term 4-gating is not a good strategy. However, by doing it for 10-15 games and ROFLstomping other bronzies, it starts to give you some ideas of what you can have and also what you need to be able to defend. Once this builds your confidence some it becomes easier to FE and take some map control, move your army out of your base etc.
^^ This.
No one is suggesting that the OP should 4-gate forever. The idea is to use a basic build that is decently strong against everything. 4-gate is fine for this. Once the OPs macro is good, then he can start branching out into expansion timings, proper scouting, and new builds.
I play golf and I usually fall back on golf examples to illustrate a point. When I first started playing, my instructor didn't show me a video of Tiger Woods playing golf and say "Now do that" or "Get good and play this way". No, he started with the basics. Stand like this. Hold the club like this. Don't use a driver, use a 7-iron. Don't worry about hitting the ball far or straight; focus on your form and making contact. Basically, you spend time building your fundamentals first then you can worry about perfecting your technique and learning how to perfect your swing.
The same logic applies here. If you're in bronze, you're better off picking a basic all-in build and executing it over and over until you can handle the demands of following a build order, building an army, and basic scouting. It doesn't do any good to talk about modifying a build based on scouting information when the player can't consistently execute a build order in a vacuum. Nor does it do any good to talk about expansion timings for the same reason. This isn't meant as a criticism of new players, by the way. All of us started somewhere and you can get better by building from the ground up, not by tackling everything at once.
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EPT
