• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:48
CEST 15:48
KST 22:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection2Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)7
Community News
[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June0Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th140Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League5
StarCraft 2
General
My starcraft 2 changes The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued SC2 Parody - "Somebody That I Used to Troll"
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 2 (2026)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum Mutation # 527 Hell Train
Brood War
General
FlaShFTW vs A.Alm Grudge Match Event [BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? Data analysis on 70 million replays
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [BSL22] WB Final & LB Semis - Saturday 21:00 CEST
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread How cold is too cold to be outdoors? Dating: How's your luck? Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esportsmanship: How to NOT B…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4416 users

"My god, this Toss is everywhere!"

Blogs > twoxmachine
Post a Reply
twoxmachine
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States50 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-09 17:01:42
December 09 2010 12:32 GMT
#1
[edit]: Due to some confusion, it should be stated that the concept of Harass and Micro in Protoss play was covered in the OP by NearPerfection. However, many other topics received the same treatment. A proper reply would address the rest of the issues brought up. This post is meant to cover the specific mindset that some players have that Protoss race is less suited to Harass and Micro, and only that specific mindset. (i.e. the concept deserves its own special love!)

[edit #2]: Due to further confusion, the most important points will be highlighted in bold! Scroll down to speed read.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=175466
Above is the link to the original post by NearPerfection, a self-proclaimed Top 200 (unaware of which server) Protoss, which is called "Is it too late to switch races?".

While I don't agree with many points, the OP is very clear in describing a style of play that benefits from:

1) Micro, by way of making comparisons between the stutter-step of Marines in SC2 and Archers in WC3.

2) Harassment, in detailing his frustrations with his experiences as Protoss.

Terrans have indeed exhibited play utilizing these two factors to defeat opponents. To list one, MMM drop play against an aggressively expanding opponent can often catch less-mobile armies out of position and attack similar vulnerabilities. Should NearPerfection's opponent allow himself these vulnerabilities, many of NearPerfection's abilities will come to to fore.

One issue that will come up is that not all of his opponents will be using a strategy that allows for this type of play. Of course, NearPerfection describes his issues with this, and the fact that he does not feel that the army compositions utilized as Protoss in those cases does not appeal to either Micro or Harassment. However, he also felt strongly against the composition utilized in the TvT matchup when playing Terran. Some games do not allow for micro-focused/harass play to be the most effective stratagem.

The reason that that much of this was described in sweeping strokes was to remove concepts of race balance and community input. What we are looking for here is the look of the game that NearPerfection prefers with regards to changing races: Micro and Harassment. Is switching to Terran or Zerg required to appeal to those two facets of play?

What does high-micro harass-heavy Protoss look like? In one case, perhaps Void Rays with Flux Vanes (ignoring the PTR) may fit the bill. Instances of superior Void Ray control have been really notable at major tournaments; charging up on targetable doodads and maintaining the charge across distances and on enemies lights up the battlefield.

As always, this will not be optimal unit choice and strategy in every circumstance, but can certainly fulfill the stutter-step micro and harass being searched for by NearPerfection in the case of Protoss.

Here is a series of Protoss major unit and tech transitions with ONLY Harass, and to a lesser extent, Micro in mind.
This is by no means, set in stone. Stalkers---> Blink ---> Robobay----> Warp Prism---> Warp Prism Harass----> High Templar Archives/Dark Shrine----> Warped Unit Harass----> Stargate----> Void Ray----> Fleet Beacon----> Flux Vanes.

Some Protoss play does not highlight a player's Micro or ability to abuse positioning vulnerabilities, but that is also true of every other Race. Is the Protoss really race as a whole unable to take advantage of those circumstances?

If you have replays or stories showcasing Protoss Micro and Harass, please reply below or send them to: enemieshugsc2@gmail.com .

*
"...if while you're playing Halo, you do some genius move and then you realize that the microwave is about to go off in two seconds so you have that perfect timing, then at the same time you, like, figure out how to do the..." ~Tyler "NonY" Wasieleski
Flaunt
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
New Zealand784 Posts
December 09 2010 12:36 GMT
#2
Looking back at the archer in wc3 I don't think that it was ever used to stutter step >.>. Maybe you're confused with a grunt, agi hero or huntress ;o.
What? You seek something? You wish to multiply yourself tenfold, a hundredfold? You seek followers? Seek zeros!
Black[CAT]
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Malaysia2589 Posts
December 09 2010 12:44 GMT
#3
Wow, you made this account just to post this?
You mean ESPORTS isnt a synonym for SC2? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ -Proud owner of a Filco Majestouch 2 with Cherry Blue Switches- BW or SC2? Why not both?
Navane
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Netherlands2756 Posts
December 09 2010 14:06 GMT
#4
You know you can reply in threads?
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25998 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-09 16:53:24
December 09 2010 16:22 GMT
#5
Edit: Thread gets to live. I think there's a lot of harassment opportunities for Protoss if you want to play them that way...
Moderator
GoldenH
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1115 Posts
December 31 2010 00:14 GMT
#6
I'm interested in seeing ways to open up harassing with protoss that isn't an autolose to the early pushes that are so common these days. But every way I've tried has just sent me on a losing streak and back to the drawing board.
"(Dudes are) not going to say "Buy this game — I cried at the end". (...) I suppose the secret is to find a game that makes you shoot eight million fuckin' dudes and then cry about how awesome it is to shoot eight million fuckin' dudes." - Tim Rogers
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Kung Fu Cup
11:00
#10
WardiTV1196
IntoTheiNu 945
SteadfastSC190
Rex158
Liquipedia
The PondCast
10:00
Episode 95
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Ryung 638
SteadfastSC 190
Rex 148
ProTech87
trigger 55
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 35562
Rain 20577
Calm 9907
Shuttle 1512
Mini 1177
Hyuk 1021
actioN 620
Horang2 525
Rush 300
BeSt 278
[ Show more ]
ggaemo 239
EffOrt 209
Pusan 154
hero 149
Zeus 94
Sharp 88
Soulkey 86
Last 60
ToSsGirL 57
[sc1f]eonzerg 56
sorry 46
PianO 44
JYJ 42
Shine 29
sSak 23
Sacsri 20
Hm[arnc] 17
Shinee 16
Movie 15
IntoTheRainbow 15
zelot 14
ajuk12(nOOB) 12
Terrorterran 11
Sexy 9
Icarus 6
Noble 6
Dota 2
Gorgc1920
Dendi1666
qojqva1166
XcaliburYe190
Counter-Strike
fl0m5720
zeus324
byalli320
kRYSTAL_20
Other Games
singsing2779
B2W.Neo968
hiko762
Lowko554
Beastyqt287
DeMusliM234
Hui .223
Livibee83
QueenE59
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 24
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis4525
• Jankos2464
• TFBlade717
Other Games
• WagamamaTV175
Upcoming Events
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1h 13m
Maestros of the Game
1h 43m
ByuN vs herO
Rogue vs Bunny
Replay Cast
10h 13m
Replay Cast
19h 13m
WardiTV Spring Champion…
21h 13m
OSC
23h 13m
Maestros of the Game
1d 1h
Serral vs Percival
SHIN vs ShoWTimE
Replay Cast
1d 19h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Maestros of the Game
2 days
Clem vs Lambo
Zoun vs SKillous
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
Solar vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
Grudge Match
3 days
FlaShFTW vs A.Alm
GSL
3 days
herO vs Rogue
Maru vs Cure
Patches Events
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
BSL
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KK 2v2 League Season 1
RSL Revival: Season 5
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #3
Heroes Pulsing #2
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.