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On December 05 2010 23:29 floor exercise wrote:
This is actually a case where the BW system was less annoying to execute if all your production hatches were in the same base.
It's just so ugly and inelegant to have someone press the same key 30 times. People who think it's hard have a really strange sense of challenge. It's not difficult, it's just tedious. I can't imagine there would be a significant difference in speed, most people probably press the same key at more or less the same rate. Over such a relatively short period of time the advantage is minimal, and it's stretching to call it an advantage at all since they are stuck pressing that key repeatedly like every other Z if they can shave half a second off it or not.
It's not like BW macro, I really hate this excuse. BW macro about handeye coordination, between mouse selections and key presses, control group and hotkey mastery. I just don't see how you can equate that to repeatedly pressing one key.
I don't play z, I don't even play SC2 anymore, I just can't see it as anything but really ugly choice from a gameplay perspective and really unnecessary
You know, that was very well said.
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On December 06 2010 00:02 kamikami wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 22:54 Marksman wrote:On December 05 2010 22:28 Piy wrote:
Didn't you play BW....why are you complaining? You just have to keep going back to your larvae every 4 seconds as your playing. Called a skill ceiling. Actually its now more time consuming than BW because you have to click 3 times instead of just select all larvae then build the desired unit especially in mid and late game. It will be more stamina demanding yes but I won't argue. I just wanted to point this out. I can't see how it is more time consuming ... In BW you must : 4sz5sz6sz7sz8sz9sz0sz<Click>sz<Click>sz to produce 27 zerglings In SC2 you must : 4szzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz to produce 27 zerglings While the number of buttons pressed is the same, you must move your hand all over the keyboard and the mouse all over the screen to execute the BW hotkeys. And most of the time you must return to base to click on hatcheries that are not hotkeyed and to change rally point (since drone rally point and unit rally point is the same in BW). Besides BW production is often interrupted by 1a2a3a + micro commands.
In BW that's either 18 Zerglings because each hatch had only 1 larvae, or 54 Zerglings because each hatch had 3 larvae.
Unless you are producing gosu devouring ones and therefore are a hacker :o
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Hey, what's wrong with devouring ones?
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On December 06 2010 00:59 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 00:02 kamikami wrote:On December 05 2010 22:54 Marksman wrote:On December 05 2010 22:28 Piy wrote:
Didn't you play BW....why are you complaining? You just have to keep going back to your larvae every 4 seconds as your playing. Called a skill ceiling. Actually its now more time consuming than BW because you have to click 3 times instead of just select all larvae then build the desired unit especially in mid and late game. It will be more stamina demanding yes but I won't argue. I just wanted to point this out. I can't see how it is more time consuming ... In BW you must : 4sz5sz6sz7sz8sz9sz0sz<Click>sz<Click>sz to produce 27 zerglings In SC2 you must : 4szzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz to produce 27 zerglings While the number of buttons pressed is the same, you must move your hand all over the keyboard and the mouse all over the screen to execute the BW hotkeys. And most of the time you must return to base to click on hatcheries that are not hotkeyed and to change rally point (since drone rally point and unit rally point is the same in BW). Besides BW production is often interrupted by 1a2a3a + micro commands. In BW that's either 18 Zerglings because each hatch had only 1 larvae, or 54 Zerglings because each hatch had 3 larvae. Unless you are producing gosu devouring ones and therefore are a hacker :o
Or if you have your hatches together, Ctrl-click larvae, +z = 24 zerglings.
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On December 06 2010 00:59 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 00:02 kamikami wrote:On December 05 2010 22:54 Marksman wrote:On December 05 2010 22:28 Piy wrote:
Didn't you play BW....why are you complaining? You just have to keep going back to your larvae every 4 seconds as your playing. Called a skill ceiling. Actually its now more time consuming than BW because you have to click 3 times instead of just select all larvae then build the desired unit especially in mid and late game. It will be more stamina demanding yes but I won't argue. I just wanted to point this out. I can't see how it is more time consuming ... In BW you must : 4sz5sz6sz7sz8sz9sz0sz<Click>sz<Click>sz to produce 27 zerglings In SC2 you must : 4szzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz to produce 27 zerglings While the number of buttons pressed is the same, you must move your hand all over the keyboard and the mouse all over the screen to execute the BW hotkeys. And most of the time you must return to base to click on hatcheries that are not hotkeyed and to change rally point (since drone rally point and unit rally point is the same in BW). Besides BW production is often interrupted by 1a2a3a + micro commands. In BW that's either 18 Zerglings because each hatch had only 1 larvae, or 54 Zerglings because each hatch had 3 larvae. Unless you are producing gosu devouring ones and therefore are a hacker :o
27*2? :o
Also, this just seems tedious, lol. It's being MADE to be annoying. I think this change will just upset everyone because heck, it's even a step down for BW zerg players, lol.
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Wow, I feel so dumb. Whenever i offraced zerg I never even realized I could hold down the key to make lings. I would literally press it 30+ times or w/e if I was making zerglings lategame.
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I'm considering using multiple hotkeys to spawn, like z/x for zergling, etc. It's a lot faster and definitely bad ass.
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Norway28648 Posts
lol that is actually a great idea elie
I think this change is dumb.. suddenly zerg macro is actually more demanding than it was in bw (as there you could build 12 units in one swoop. ) meanwhile terran and protoss have both gotten significant boosts. it might be a little TOO easy the way it is now though, I don't think I've ever been above 1500 minerals pre-limit and some players are already macroing virtually perfectly with about 1000 games under their belt.. but both adding the queen into the equation and completely fucking over the new macro mechanic of zerg is too much. this change basically adds an extra apm demand of 10 per hatchery - this is really really significant when you start getting 5-6 hatcheries..
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To be honest, i'm not too upset over this change (as a zerg player) - I mean sure, its a hassle, but when compared with how difficult macro was in scbw, I think I'll live with it. If you're wrist is hurting from doing this too much, I would say something along the lines of examining the technique that you approach the keyboard with, try keeping your wrist/hand straight with your arm, and stretching regularly. I've never had a problem with it.
Also, this just makes it easier to have a higher apm, even if its not necessary :[.
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It's tedious, not hard, and takes no skill aside from hitting one button over and over. You can't hit the key any faster than the keyboard/game will recognize the input, so the best you can do is assign multiple hotkeys (someone suggested z/x) but even then it's not twice as fast, just a little bit faster.
In BW zerg macro wasn't tedious, it was a challenge to keep producing and keeping your money low. There is no challenge with hitting the z key fifty times to remake your army. Honestly it makes zerg a lot less fun for me, I enjoyed how it was before, even if it wasn't as hard as it was in Broodwar it was still something you could improve and get better at.
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On December 06 2010 00:59 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 00:02 kamikami wrote:On December 05 2010 22:54 Marksman wrote:On December 05 2010 22:28 Piy wrote:
Didn't you play BW....why are you complaining? You just have to keep going back to your larvae every 4 seconds as your playing. Called a skill ceiling. Actually its now more time consuming than BW because you have to click 3 times instead of just select all larvae then build the desired unit especially in mid and late game. It will be more stamina demanding yes but I won't argue. I just wanted to point this out. I can't see how it is more time consuming ... In BW you must : 4sz5sz6sz7sz8sz9sz0sz<Click>sz<Click>sz to produce 27 zerglings In SC2 you must : 4szzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz to produce 27 zerglings While the number of buttons pressed is the same, you must move your hand all over the keyboard and the mouse all over the screen to execute the BW hotkeys. And most of the time you must return to base to click on hatcheries that are not hotkeyed and to change rally point (since drone rally point and unit rally point is the same in BW). Besides BW production is often interrupted by 1a2a3a + micro commands. In BW that's either 18 Zerglings because each hatch had only 1 larvae, or 54 Zerglings because each hatch had 3 larvae. Unless you are producing gosu devouring ones and therefore are a hacker :o
You have 9 hatches, each hatch has 3 larvas, 3*9 = 27. How can you produce 54 zerglings from this ?
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Lol, so after MBS they now make an artificial dificult to macro as zerg? What was the problem with holding down the z key in the first place?
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1) They're reverting it
2) It affected Terrans and Protosses as well, just not as significantly
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EPT
