|
I am planning to write a guide on a PvZ opening: 2 gates; there is no comprehensive 2 gates guide in the forum that I know of.
If you happen to know that it already exist, please tell me, I do not want to waste many hours just to write a guide that someone else have already wrote.
I can see that almost no high level Protoss that use this build against Zerg anymore; why not? Its still a perfectly viable build even after the zealot nerf and roach buff. It is not really an all-in build order, you can still transition out of it no problem.
PvZ is all about putting pressure on Zerg throughout the game, forcing units instead of drones. If you open with only 1 gate 1 core, you cannot really put on enough pressure and allow Zerg to FE freely.
 
|
are you going to talk about all of the variations of 2gate and their effects, with and without chrono boost?
ie 10/12gate
10/10gate
13/13gate
12/14gate
proxy 10/12gate
proxy 10/10gate
etc
There's quite a lot to go into, how the map plays into each of these variations, how the zerg's opening affects it as well, transitions, the list goes onf orever. I haven't seen a guide, but if you want it to be well-accepted you're going to have to go pretty in-depth
|
|
|
Yes, I intend to go in depth, specifying "what you scout then what to do...." kind of guide.
The next steps are all different if you scout a 6pool, 13 pool, a 14 hatch or a quick roach warren....
|
Katowice25012 Posts
On November 24 2010 16:50 DarkwindHK wrote:
I can see that almost no high level Protoss that use this build against Zerg anymore; why not? Its still a perfectly viable build even after the zealot nerf and roach buff. It is not really an all-in build order, you can still transition out of it no problem.
High level protosses in general disagree that it is perfectly viable, that is why you don't see it anymore. Roaches are too big of a problem.
|
its still viable...went to socal lan and i always 2 gate vs Z. won 2-0 vs 2600 zerg.....its my opening build all the time.......
|
There are even variation on build the pylon in side your base or build it near the natural, closer rush distance basically make roach a non-problem. They must get zergling to defend, or cut a lot of drones to get a super fast roach.
|
It works if you can apply enough pressure without dying to the counter attack, you can transition into a 4gate or possibly expand behind it.
GL though on your journey figuring it out. You might as well attempt to figure it out what you can and can't do 2gating to form your own conclusions.
|
It's viable on ladder at low/mid diamond at least. 12/13 gate into expo is my standard PvZ opening for ladder, and I've been extremely successful there with it. It can be hard countered by certain type of Roach openings, though. I can usually hold off a standard 7RR with it, but my Z practice partner got tired of getting 2 gated by me and on ladder, so he now does a modified RR build blind against toss that cuts only a small amount of econ while getting an immediate freewin against 2gate. I think in BoX play the only way it could be viable would be as a semi-cheese where you hope he goes Hatch first before scouting it. On ladder Hatch before Gas is very common from Z, so it's very workable in that environment.
|
Aotearoa39261 Posts
The proper response to 2gate is planting that Roach Warren. If the zerg is going hatch first then he's gambling and you should be able to do some damage. If he's playing speedling -> expand then he can plant that warren when he scouts the 2gate and start lol'ing at you because Roaches destroy this strat.
|
I can give you some insights as a Protoss player who generally goes 2gate vs Zerg on Lost Temple
In terms of build order you have 2 types of builds in theory.
1. Allin - where this 2gate is your life, non stop zealots will be pumping out with no transition plan.
2. SemiAllin - where you sacrifise early economy such as getting low/and cutting probes. But still have a follow up if your rush fails.
Then it depends on your build order and if you want to proxy or not. I proxy my first pylon and 2gates in the middle of lost temple so I have a really strong push with my first 3 zealots chrono boosted.
Using a proxy
-9 pylon
-10gate
-11/12 chrono boosted probes
12gate
12pylon - in base if SemiAllin, at gates if Allin.
You will have enough crono boost for the first 3 zealots which will all reach his base in any direction by the time he has a roach den, any lings (if 14 pool) and his expansion if going 14-15 will be roughly 50% done.
This build WILL stop his expansion even if he pulls 4-6 probes, if he does this then kite his units back to your gate where you will have another zealot out with another at around 60% if you chronoed it. At this point you decide if you want to try and end it there and go Allin or stop zealot production and start making more probes, gas and core.
Going SemiAllin in the best way to go, I have destroyed zergs on multiple maps by stoping their expnansion, putting pressure on their mineral line, making them make lings/sunkens and runing their eco past yours as you chrono boost your probes to victory.
As for going roaches Plexa I have never had a zerg player do this to me, or if they do make a den they are only able to get one or two roaches while all their drones are either not minning or dead.
I have zerg players get 3 sunken colonies (sry bw habbit t_t) in preperation of an Allin, get mass lings which you just lol at his ramp. Get 1-2 sunkens and lings while teching to mutas. All the while your getting probe count past 20 while hes at 20 max. You can do a few things now like transition into a void ray or getting 2 more gates and pumping stenrys/zealots to contain him while you macro up as you wont be able to chrono boost your warp gate tech. Then just get 8 stalkers and gg.
The one zerg build that is DEVISTATING against this build is ling/baneling bust. If a zerg player opts for this as his early main build then its gg for you as it will stop any 2gate build.
Hope this helps in anyway. 2gate is fun and it pisses most Zerg players off 
|
Zealots are terrible against roaches and take forever to build. The only thing they're good against is lings, and even that is somewhat dicey depending on the situation. I've gone 2 gate on a few occasions and won, but they really have to be whoring for it to be worth it. There are safer ways to put pressure on them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
