I really don't understand the strategy behind doing a blue flame hellion drop in tvt. What method could you possibly have to decide this build is a good idea? It seems like no matter what the terran is doing, he is going to have the correct units to kill a hellion drop because hellions are useless against marauders, vikings, banshees, thors, and siege tanks (to name a few lol).

I guess it just pisses me off to see people who are clearly excellent players throw games by doing this shitty build. Even if it does damage it's probably going to lose you the game. Maybe I somehow missed the one game out of the ten in the GSL where someone actually won a game with a tvt hellion drop.

Hopefully there's some way to get the word out to stop this travesty of a build from ever being played again.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarghhhhhh *bangs head against desk*

salito

1631 Posts

November 02 2010 21:15 GMT

Even if he has the units to kill the hellions, blue flame hellions destroy SCVs ridiculously fast. It's feasible to kill all his SCVs before your Hellions die, giving you an odd 25 worker advantage.

Happy.fairytail

United States327 Posts

November 02 2010 21:18 GMT

are you referring to the nada/boxer game?

Nada was actually ahead in SCVs, I think he was even to slightly ahead if he decided to expand instead of going all-in.

rel

Guam3501 Posts

November 02 2010 21:20 GMT

I think he's referring too in general, because if he were referring to said games, that would be a spoiler.

Polar_Nada

United States1547 Posts

November 02 2010 21:20 GMT

On November 03 2010 06:18 Happy.fairytail wrote:
are you referring to the nada/boxer game?

Nada was actually ahead in SCVs, I think he was even to slightly ahead if he decided to expand instead of going all-in.

EDIT: i dont wanna spoil.
in general this build is very viable and even top terrans like HasHe lose to this strat. you are not suppose to engage their army obviously.

GHOSTCLAW

United States16959 Posts

November 02 2010 21:22 GMT

nada incorrectly guessed how far he was ahead - no more, no less. The drop did a huge amount of damage

Ghin

United States2391 Posts

November 02 2010 21:28 GMT

On November 03 2010 06:20 Polar_Nada wrote:

Show nested quote +

EDIT: i dont wanna spoil.
in general this build is very viable and even top terrans like HasHe lose to this strat. you are not suppose to engage their army obviously.

I guess my thought is: how exactly do you counter starport play with a reactored factory? Or any other standard build? There are just so many standard builds that crush this even if it does damage. Even if you get most of his scvs, you're still behind because you made hellions. It's not like a reaver where if you kill all his scvs... you have a reaver. Hellions can only kill SCVs.

salito

1631 Posts

November 02 2010 21:34 GMT

On November 03 2010 06:28 Ghin wrote:

Show nested quote +

You execute this build with a tech lab factory. How are you able to get pre-ignitor without a tech lab? With a starport already up, you can transition to what you need.

Count9

China5994 Posts

November 02 2010 21:36 GMT

I agree as an early tactic it's bad, but I love it mid-late game on 3 base+ and it's kind of a standoff, dropping 4 blue flame hellions puts a base out of commission, more useful than 2 medis full of marauders or w/e.

Ghin

United States2391 Posts

November 02 2010 21:39 GMT

#10

On November 03 2010 06:36 Count9 wrote:
I agree as an early tactic it's bad, but I love it mid-late game on 3 base+ and it's kind of a standoff, dropping 4 blue flame hellions puts a base out of commission, more useful than 2 medis full of marauders or w/e.

Oh I totally agree, later on this is an excellent move.

crayhasissues

United States543 Posts

November 02 2010 21:58 GMT

#11

I've used it and it has worked. Basically, I harass their main and expos with it. If it is defended well, you will probably lose. If not, it can give you a huge advantage. I will usually have a huge mineral build up after I drop, and throw down Barracks/starports, depending on what I saw with the drop. As long as you defend well at your main with bunkers/turrets and such, you should survive long enough to win.

Treva

United States533 Posts

November 02 2010 22:39 GMT

#12

The build is great when your opponent doesn't expect it or prepares poorly (of course), however I think the build itself hit it's popularity ~2 weeks ago and is slowly dying down in terms of seeing it on the ladder or in customs (high diamond) because people were and still are just expecting it. I believe the build will always be around (duh) but I think for the people who rely on the build too much it's becoming more and more difficult to pull off since people are starting to just prepare for it without even knowing it's 100% for sure coming.

Scruffy said it for me in the fact that if it doesn't do a lot of damage (killing 4-5 scvs doesn't cover it) then you will be very much behind in your tech (at the stage in the game the drop happens) and usually will eventually cost you the game. Impossible to recover from if the drop fails? not at all but against good players they will make you pay for it. Personally I use the build every so often just to see if I can catch my opponent off guard because with a build like that a good drop can instantly win you the game.

deth

Australia1754 Posts

November 02 2010 23:24 GMT

#13

This build can work against an unsuspecting player, but if I think you are either going for this drop or for banshee, I prepare in the same way.

Here's a game vs ~2500 terran doing this against me, and i punish him for it.
http://www.mediafire.com/?t9y9695y5hbbxy8

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