• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:49
CEST 06:49
KST 13:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection1Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview4[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)7
Community News
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th106Weekly Cups (May 18-25): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League4Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double1Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th The death of cheese, from a professional cheeser. Changing from 12 to 8 is just asking for StarCraft TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum Mutation # 527 Hell Train
Brood War
General
Soma's ASL Finals Review FlaShFTW vs A.Alm Grudge Match Event BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ VPN experiences OGN to release AI-upscaled StarLeague from Feb 24
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [BSL22] WB Final & LB Semis - Saturday 21:00 CEST
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
McBoner: A hockey love story 2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esportsmanship: How to NOT B…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2302 users

[H]Probability

Blogs > 4thHatchery
Post a Reply
4thHatchery
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
Finland125 Posts
October 20 2010 16:14 GMT
#1
N children have decided to choose among them one who stays to count (while the others go and hide) by flipping a coin. What is the probability that the one who stays to count is decided on the nth round of coin flipping, when the one who gets a different side of the coin than the others is the one who stays and counts?

My "reasoning":
P("second child "loses"")=1/2
P("third child "loses"")=1/(2^2)
P("Nth child "loses"")=1/(2^N-1)
These are disjoint cases so the probability that the "loser" is decided on the first round is the sum of 1/(2^k) where k goes from 1 to N-1. Therefore the probability that the "loser" would be decided on the nth round is the sum of 1/(2^k) where k goes from 1 to nN-1. This is a geometric sum so the result would be 1-(1/(2^nN-1)).

The answer given in the book is p(1-p)^n-1, where p=N/2^(N-1).
That would be (N/2^(N-1))(1-(N/2^(N-1)))^n-1. This makes no sense to me because if for example there were 2 children deciding who hides and who seeks the probability that the seeker would be decided on the first round would be [(N=2,n=1)]:
(2/2^(2-1))(1-(2/2^(2-1)))^1-1=(2/2)*1=1

So what am I missing?

Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-20 16:28:52
October 20 2010 16:28 GMT
#2
The chance of the event happening on the Nth toss is:
p = [ n * 1 * 0.5 ^ (n - 1) ]

n = (n choose (n-1)) (any one of the n people could have the opposite)
1 = the one person could get either head or tail, does not affect probability
0.5 ^ (n - 1) = the remaining (n-1) people must get the opposite of the one person, hence the 0.5

For this to actually happen, on the previous (n-1) tosses, the previous condition must be false:
(1 - p ) ^ (n - 1)

Combine them together, you get:
p * (1 - p) ^ (n - 1)
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
Slithe
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States985 Posts
October 20 2010 19:05 GMT
#3
Let me see if I'm understanding the problem correctly. In each round, every single child flips a coin. If only one child doesn't match the others, that child becomes the counter. Otherwise, repeat the round. I assume this is what the problem is because the solution matches with this description.

If so, then the fault with your reasoning is that you cannot know that the second child is the loser until all the other children also flip their coins. Three person example:

First child flips H
Second child flips T (you would say child loses right here)
Third child flips T

Intuitively, it should be the case that all children have an equal probability of losing. The way you formulated the solution, the first child can never lose.

Cambium's solution looks correct. I'm going to present the solution in a different way, because sometimes it helps people to see things in multiple ways.

I usually look at probability in terms of the space of all possibilities. In this case, there are 2^N possible results for each round, where a result is the coin flips that the children get. Back to the three person example, here are the 2^3=8 possible outcomes.

HHH
HHT
HTH
THH
HTT
THT
TTH
TTT

Now, we want to figure out how many of these possible results are "losing" results (i.e. one child is different from the rest). In the three person case, we see there are 6 possibilities. Let's solve the general case.

Consider the scenario where only one child flips H. Using combinatorics, we can represent this as a choosing problem, where we only choose one child as the losing child.

(N choose 1) = N

The tails case is symmetric, so we now can see that there are 2*N possible results that are considered "losing" results. Putting it all together, we can see that the probability is:

2*N / (2^N) -------> N / (2^(N-1))

From here, you can just apply the geometric sequence to solve the rest of the problem.

It should be noted that this method works because all results are equally likely. If you have a problem where the likelihood of events is not equal, like with an unfair coin, then you would have to do weighted averages to compensate.
Glacierz
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1245 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-20 21:44:43
October 20 2010 21:29 GMT
#4
I think the notes above are too complicated. There are 2^n total possible outcomes, and out of those there are only 2 instances of the nth child losing: either HHHH....T or TTTTT....H, the probability is 2/(2^n), or 1/(2^(n-1)). OP you just missed a parenthesis, and you don't need to sum anything. The question asks you the probability that it is decided on the nth round, not by the nth round. Read more carefully.

Edit: this assumes a fair coin and n > 1 obviously. Base case is p = 0 for n = 1. In response to the post above: note that combination like HTH would have resulted on the second child losing, not the third.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 7h 11m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft812
RuFF_SC2 153
Nina 132
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 5294
Rain 3551
Noble 16
Icarus 9
sorry 9
League of Legends
JimRising 754
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King71
Other Games
summit1g15122
ViBE39
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick844
BasetradeTV176
Counter-Strike
PGL155
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 36
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1531
• Lourlo1282
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
7h 11m
Monday Night Weeklies
11h 11m
Replay Cast
19h 11m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 5h
WardiTV Spring Champion…
1d 6h
Maestros of the Game
1d 10h
The PondCast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Maestros of the Game
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
3 days
Maestros of the Game
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Solar vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
GSL
6 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
BSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KK 2v2 League Season 1
RSL Revival: Season 5
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
Murky Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #3
Heroes Pulsing #2
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.