• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:18
CEST 22:18
KST 05:18
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator2[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30[ASL19] Ro4 Recap : The Peak15DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Info & Preview21herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2025)18
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 19-25): Hindsight is 20/20?0DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Official Replay Pack7[BSL20] RO20 Group Stage2EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1)9Weekly Cups (May 12-18): Clem sweeps WardiTV May3
StarCraft 2
General
DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Official Replay Pack Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2025) DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Info & Preview RankedFTW - Site With Ladder Rankings Over Time
Tourneys
[GSL 2025] Code S:Season 2 - RO12 - Group A DreamHack Dallas 2025 SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void Mutation # 472 Dead Heat
Brood War
General
BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? GG Lan Party Bulgaria (Live in about 3 hours) BW General Discussion Recent recommended BW games
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL19] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NHL Playoffs 2024 Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Yes Sir! How Commanding Impr…
TrAiDoS
Poker
Nebuchad
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
SECOND COMMING
XenOsky
WombaT’s Old BW Terran Theme …
WombaT
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 12171 users

[H]Probability

Blogs > 4thHatchery
Post a Reply
4thHatchery
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
Finland125 Posts
October 20 2010 16:14 GMT
#1
N children have decided to choose among them one who stays to count (while the others go and hide) by flipping a coin. What is the probability that the one who stays to count is decided on the nth round of coin flipping, when the one who gets a different side of the coin than the others is the one who stays and counts?

My "reasoning":
P("second child "loses"")=1/2
P("third child "loses"")=1/(2^2)
P("Nth child "loses"")=1/(2^N-1)
These are disjoint cases so the probability that the "loser" is decided on the first round is the sum of 1/(2^k) where k goes from 1 to N-1. Therefore the probability that the "loser" would be decided on the nth round is the sum of 1/(2^k) where k goes from 1 to nN-1. This is a geometric sum so the result would be 1-(1/(2^nN-1)).

The answer given in the book is p(1-p)^n-1, where p=N/2^(N-1).
That would be (N/2^(N-1))(1-(N/2^(N-1)))^n-1. This makes no sense to me because if for example there were 2 children deciding who hides and who seeks the probability that the seeker would be decided on the first round would be [(N=2,n=1)]:
(2/2^(2-1))(1-(2/2^(2-1)))^1-1=(2/2)*1=1

So what am I missing?

Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-20 16:28:52
October 20 2010 16:28 GMT
#2
The chance of the event happening on the Nth toss is:
p = [ n * 1 * 0.5 ^ (n - 1) ]

n = (n choose (n-1)) (any one of the n people could have the opposite)
1 = the one person could get either head or tail, does not affect probability
0.5 ^ (n - 1) = the remaining (n-1) people must get the opposite of the one person, hence the 0.5

For this to actually happen, on the previous (n-1) tosses, the previous condition must be false:
(1 - p ) ^ (n - 1)

Combine them together, you get:
p * (1 - p) ^ (n - 1)
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
Slithe
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States985 Posts
October 20 2010 19:05 GMT
#3
Let me see if I'm understanding the problem correctly. In each round, every single child flips a coin. If only one child doesn't match the others, that child becomes the counter. Otherwise, repeat the round. I assume this is what the problem is because the solution matches with this description.

If so, then the fault with your reasoning is that you cannot know that the second child is the loser until all the other children also flip their coins. Three person example:

First child flips H
Second child flips T (you would say child loses right here)
Third child flips T

Intuitively, it should be the case that all children have an equal probability of losing. The way you formulated the solution, the first child can never lose.

Cambium's solution looks correct. I'm going to present the solution in a different way, because sometimes it helps people to see things in multiple ways.

I usually look at probability in terms of the space of all possibilities. In this case, there are 2^N possible results for each round, where a result is the coin flips that the children get. Back to the three person example, here are the 2^3=8 possible outcomes.

HHH
HHT
HTH
THH
HTT
THT
TTH
TTT

Now, we want to figure out how many of these possible results are "losing" results (i.e. one child is different from the rest). In the three person case, we see there are 6 possibilities. Let's solve the general case.

Consider the scenario where only one child flips H. Using combinatorics, we can represent this as a choosing problem, where we only choose one child as the losing child.

(N choose 1) = N

The tails case is symmetric, so we now can see that there are 2*N possible results that are considered "losing" results. Putting it all together, we can see that the probability is:

2*N / (2^N) -------> N / (2^(N-1))

From here, you can just apply the geometric sequence to solve the rest of the problem.

It should be noted that this method works because all results are equally likely. If you have a problem where the likelihood of events is not equal, like with an unfair coin, then you would have to do weighted averages to compensate.
Glacierz
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1244 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-20 21:44:43
October 20 2010 21:29 GMT
#4
I think the notes above are too complicated. There are 2^n total possible outcomes, and out of those there are only 2 instances of the nth child losing: either HHHH....T or TTTTT....H, the probability is 2/(2^n), or 1/(2^(n-1)). OP you just missed a parenthesis, and you don't need to sum anything. The question asks you the probability that it is decided on the nth round, not by the nth round. Read more carefully.

Edit: this assumes a fair coin and n > 1 obviously. Base case is p = 0 for n = 1. In response to the post above: note that combination like HTH would have resulted on the second child losing, not the third.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL: GosuLeague
19:00
RO16 SWISS - Round 3
Semih vs cavapoo
Hejek vs TousaN
ZZZero.O95
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 167
NeuroSwarm 122
JuggernautJason99
Livibee 79
MindelVK 40
StarCraft: Brood War
BeSt 582
firebathero 288
Dewaltoss 140
ZZZero.O 95
Movie 22
Dota 2
Dendi2559
febbydoto8
Counter-Strike
fl0m1535
Stewie2K1205
flusha222
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0129
Other Games
Grubby4047
Beastyqt951
mouzStarbuck279
ToD198
TKL 110
Trikslyr65
QueenE56
NightEnD13
ViBE8
Organizations
StarCraft 2
angryscii 33
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 23 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 277
• StrangeGG 63
• 3DClanTV 21
• Reevou 7
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Eskiya23 15
• FirePhoenix6
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21615
• WagamamaTV646
• Ler116
League of Legends
• Nemesis6051
• TFBlade2197
• Jankos1435
Other Games
• imaqtpie1783
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Monday
3h 42m
GSL Code S
13h 12m
Cure vs Zoun
Solar vs Creator
The PondCast
13h 42m
Road to EWC
13h 42m
Online Event
18h 42m
Clem vs ShoWTimE
herO vs MaxPax
HupCup
18h 42m
Road to EWC
19h 42m
Road to EWC
1d 1h
GSL Code S
1d 13h
GuMiho vs Bunny
ByuN vs SHIN
Road to EWC
1d 13h
[ Show More ]
Online Event
1d 16h
Road to EWC
1d 19h
Road to EWC
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Road to EWC
2 days
Road to EWC
2 days
Road to EWC
3 days
Road to EWC
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Road to EWC
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Road to EWC
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 19
DreamHack Dallas 2025
Calamity Stars S2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
YSL S1
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL Season 17: Qualifier 1
Heroes 10 EU
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025
ESL Pro League S21

Upcoming

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
2025 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.