• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:36
CEST 10:36
KST 17:36
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-228Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-69SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-64PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)14
StarCraft 2
General
Protoss AoE skill expression Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Serral wins HomeStory Cup 29 StarCraft 2 at SC4ALL II Invite #4/8 - Percival 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 538 Media Blackout The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch
Brood War
General
How FlaSh Nearly Forfeited MSL Finals being late BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Are you ready for ASL 22? NEW HYPE VIDEO BW General Discussion ASL22 General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3 Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo 2 thread ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Iain M Banks Says He Has Cancer And Months To Live European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
NBA General Discussion Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
What is a Gamer?
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5286 users

[H]Probability

Blogs > 4thHatchery
Post a Reply
4thHatchery
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
Finland125 Posts
October 20 2010 16:14 GMT
#1
N children have decided to choose among them one who stays to count (while the others go and hide) by flipping a coin. What is the probability that the one who stays to count is decided on the nth round of coin flipping, when the one who gets a different side of the coin than the others is the one who stays and counts?

My "reasoning":
P("second child "loses"")=1/2
P("third child "loses"")=1/(2^2)
P("Nth child "loses"")=1/(2^N-1)
These are disjoint cases so the probability that the "loser" is decided on the first round is the sum of 1/(2^k) where k goes from 1 to N-1. Therefore the probability that the "loser" would be decided on the nth round is the sum of 1/(2^k) where k goes from 1 to nN-1. This is a geometric sum so the result would be 1-(1/(2^nN-1)).

The answer given in the book is p(1-p)^n-1, where p=N/2^(N-1).
That would be (N/2^(N-1))(1-(N/2^(N-1)))^n-1. This makes no sense to me because if for example there were 2 children deciding who hides and who seeks the probability that the seeker would be decided on the first round would be [(N=2,n=1)]:
(2/2^(2-1))(1-(2/2^(2-1)))^1-1=(2/2)*1=1

So what am I missing?

Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-20 16:28:52
October 20 2010 16:28 GMT
#2
The chance of the event happening on the Nth toss is:
p = [ n * 1 * 0.5 ^ (n - 1) ]

n = (n choose (n-1)) (any one of the n people could have the opposite)
1 = the one person could get either head or tail, does not affect probability
0.5 ^ (n - 1) = the remaining (n-1) people must get the opposite of the one person, hence the 0.5

For this to actually happen, on the previous (n-1) tosses, the previous condition must be false:
(1 - p ) ^ (n - 1)

Combine them together, you get:
p * (1 - p) ^ (n - 1)
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
Slithe
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States985 Posts
October 20 2010 19:05 GMT
#3
Let me see if I'm understanding the problem correctly. In each round, every single child flips a coin. If only one child doesn't match the others, that child becomes the counter. Otherwise, repeat the round. I assume this is what the problem is because the solution matches with this description.

If so, then the fault with your reasoning is that you cannot know that the second child is the loser until all the other children also flip their coins. Three person example:

First child flips H
Second child flips T (you would say child loses right here)
Third child flips T

Intuitively, it should be the case that all children have an equal probability of losing. The way you formulated the solution, the first child can never lose.

Cambium's solution looks correct. I'm going to present the solution in a different way, because sometimes it helps people to see things in multiple ways.

I usually look at probability in terms of the space of all possibilities. In this case, there are 2^N possible results for each round, where a result is the coin flips that the children get. Back to the three person example, here are the 2^3=8 possible outcomes.

HHH
HHT
HTH
THH
HTT
THT
TTH
TTT

Now, we want to figure out how many of these possible results are "losing" results (i.e. one child is different from the rest). In the three person case, we see there are 6 possibilities. Let's solve the general case.

Consider the scenario where only one child flips H. Using combinatorics, we can represent this as a choosing problem, where we only choose one child as the losing child.

(N choose 1) = N

The tails case is symmetric, so we now can see that there are 2*N possible results that are considered "losing" results. Putting it all together, we can see that the probability is:

2*N / (2^N) -------> N / (2^(N-1))

From here, you can just apply the geometric sequence to solve the rest of the problem.

It should be noted that this method works because all results are equally likely. If you have a problem where the likelihood of events is not equal, like with an unfair coin, then you would have to do weighted averages to compensate.
Glacierz
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1245 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-20 21:44:43
October 20 2010 21:29 GMT
#4
I think the notes above are too complicated. There are 2^n total possible outcomes, and out of those there are only 2 instances of the nth child losing: either HHHH....T or TTTTT....H, the probability is 2/(2^n), or 1/(2^(n-1)). OP you just missed a parenthesis, and you don't need to sum anything. The question asks you the probability that it is decided on the nth round, not by the nth round. Read more carefully.

Edit: this assumes a fair coin and n > 1 obviously. Base case is p = 0 for n = 1. In response to the post above: note that combination like HTH would have resulted on the second child losing, not the third.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
00:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #20
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 3404
Hyuk 3235
actioN 224
Larva 222
PianO 220
Soma 154
JulyZerg 107
Shine 63
ZergMaN 52
yabsab 29
[ Show more ]
ggaemo 20
sorry 18
Sharp 8
scan(afreeca) 6
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss1310
olofmeister746
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King79
Other Games
summit1g5584
singsing1284
ceh9600
Happy365
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick627
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2296
League of Legends
• Lourlo1500
• HappyZerGling103
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Weekly
2h 24m
The Patches Monday
7h 24m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 1h
PiG Sty Festival
1d 3h
PiGosaur Cup
1d 15h
Replay Cast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-09
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
RSL Revival: Season 6
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
META DYMY #4
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.