• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:42
CEST 12:42
KST 19:42
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244
Community News
Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?90Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over3New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!45Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week6
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL: II Winner Will Earn a Spot at HSC 30! Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over September World Ranking: herO leads, Serral climbs
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly SC2 INu's Battles#20 [BO.9]
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This
Brood War
General
New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery! Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon? [ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters Pros React To: Calm's Big Brain Play Vs Mini BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group A [ASL22] Ro24 Group F [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Brood War in Budapest ! WORTEX 2026 BW Finals
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Replay Review Process - What do you do? Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo IV EVE Corporation [Maplestory Hardcore] Let's Play~!! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
F* the Children and Get Off …
TrAiDoS
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Regacy Esports: The Bh…
regacyesports
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6840 users

[H]Probability

Blogs > 4thHatchery
Post a Reply
4thHatchery
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
Finland125 Posts
October 20 2010 16:14 GMT
#1
N children have decided to choose among them one who stays to count (while the others go and hide) by flipping a coin. What is the probability that the one who stays to count is decided on the nth round of coin flipping, when the one who gets a different side of the coin than the others is the one who stays and counts?

My "reasoning":
P("second child "loses"")=1/2
P("third child "loses"")=1/(2^2)
P("Nth child "loses"")=1/(2^N-1)
These are disjoint cases so the probability that the "loser" is decided on the first round is the sum of 1/(2^k) where k goes from 1 to N-1. Therefore the probability that the "loser" would be decided on the nth round is the sum of 1/(2^k) where k goes from 1 to nN-1. This is a geometric sum so the result would be 1-(1/(2^nN-1)).

The answer given in the book is p(1-p)^n-1, where p=N/2^(N-1).
That would be (N/2^(N-1))(1-(N/2^(N-1)))^n-1. This makes no sense to me because if for example there were 2 children deciding who hides and who seeks the probability that the seeker would be decided on the first round would be [(N=2,n=1)]:
(2/2^(2-1))(1-(2/2^(2-1)))^1-1=(2/2)*1=1

So what am I missing?

Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-20 16:28:52
October 20 2010 16:28 GMT
#2
The chance of the event happening on the Nth toss is:
p = [ n * 1 * 0.5 ^ (n - 1) ]

n = (n choose (n-1)) (any one of the n people could have the opposite)
1 = the one person could get either head or tail, does not affect probability
0.5 ^ (n - 1) = the remaining (n-1) people must get the opposite of the one person, hence the 0.5

For this to actually happen, on the previous (n-1) tosses, the previous condition must be false:
(1 - p ) ^ (n - 1)

Combine them together, you get:
p * (1 - p) ^ (n - 1)
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
Slithe
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States985 Posts
October 20 2010 19:05 GMT
#3
Let me see if I'm understanding the problem correctly. In each round, every single child flips a coin. If only one child doesn't match the others, that child becomes the counter. Otherwise, repeat the round. I assume this is what the problem is because the solution matches with this description.

If so, then the fault with your reasoning is that you cannot know that the second child is the loser until all the other children also flip their coins. Three person example:

First child flips H
Second child flips T (you would say child loses right here)
Third child flips T

Intuitively, it should be the case that all children have an equal probability of losing. The way you formulated the solution, the first child can never lose.

Cambium's solution looks correct. I'm going to present the solution in a different way, because sometimes it helps people to see things in multiple ways.

I usually look at probability in terms of the space of all possibilities. In this case, there are 2^N possible results for each round, where a result is the coin flips that the children get. Back to the three person example, here are the 2^3=8 possible outcomes.

HHH
HHT
HTH
THH
HTT
THT
TTH
TTT

Now, we want to figure out how many of these possible results are "losing" results (i.e. one child is different from the rest). In the three person case, we see there are 6 possibilities. Let's solve the general case.

Consider the scenario where only one child flips H. Using combinatorics, we can represent this as a choosing problem, where we only choose one child as the losing child.

(N choose 1) = N

The tails case is symmetric, so we now can see that there are 2*N possible results that are considered "losing" results. Putting it all together, we can see that the probability is:

2*N / (2^N) -------> N / (2^(N-1))

From here, you can just apply the geometric sequence to solve the rest of the problem.

It should be noted that this method works because all results are equally likely. If you have a problem where the likelihood of events is not equal, like with an unfair coin, then you would have to do weighted averages to compensate.
Glacierz
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1245 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-20 21:44:43
October 20 2010 21:29 GMT
#4
I think the notes above are too complicated. There are 2^n total possible outcomes, and out of those there are only 2 instances of the nth child losing: either HHHH....T or TTTTT....H, the probability is 2/(2^n), or 1/(2^(n-1)). OP you just missed a parenthesis, and you don't need to sum anything. The question asks you the probability that it is decided on the nth round, not by the nth round. Read more carefully.

Edit: this assumes a fair coin and n > 1 obviously. Base case is p = 0 for n = 1. In response to the post above: note that combination like HTH would have resulted on the second child losing, not the third.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Afreeca Starleague
10:00
Ro16, Group A
Soma vs Shuttle
BeSt vs Rush
Afreeca ASL 14655
StarCastTV_EN262
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko155
Rex 8
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 12245
Bisu 6029
EffOrt 883
Mini 475
Pusan 469
Soulkey 287
Larva 231
Zeus 223
Light 213
Stork 179
[ Show more ]
Barracks 140
Yoon 95
hero 79
Mong 74
PianO 62
Free 61
Killer 60
ToSsGirL 59
soO 50
Bale 50
Sexy 37
Sharp 29
NotJumperer 21
scan(afreeca) 15
Sacsri 15
JulyZerg 13
SilentControl 12
Noble 12
Terrorterran 11
League of Legends
JimRising 396
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1840
shoxiejesuss486
edward96
Other Games
singsing1620
crisheroes299
XaKoH 262
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1182
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 229
Other Games
BasetradeTV62
StarCraft 2
CranKy Ducklings33
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP100
• StrangeGG 69
• LUISG 61
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• WagamamaTV265
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Weekly
18m
Monday Night Weeklies
5h 18m
Afreeca Starleague
23h 18m
Leta vs ggaemo
Jaedong vs Queen
GSL
1d
PiGosaur Cup
1d 13h
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
Escore
3 days
[ Show More ]
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
6 days
Spirit vs Mixu
Clem vs TBD
RSL Revival
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-02
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
RSL Revival: Season 6
Calamity Invitational
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: King of Kings
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.