• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:42
CEST 05:42
KST 12:42
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview3[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10
Community News
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !6Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results12026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base
Brood War
General
Do we have a pimpest plays list? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ (Spoiler) Asl ro8 D winner interview BW General Discussion AI Question
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 4 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL22] RO16 Group Stage - 02 - 10 May [ASL21] Ro8 Day 3
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread OutLive 25 (RTS Game) Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2096 users

[H]Probability

Blogs > 4thHatchery
Post a Reply
4thHatchery
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
Finland125 Posts
October 20 2010 16:14 GMT
#1
N children have decided to choose among them one who stays to count (while the others go and hide) by flipping a coin. What is the probability that the one who stays to count is decided on the nth round of coin flipping, when the one who gets a different side of the coin than the others is the one who stays and counts?

My "reasoning":
P("second child "loses"")=1/2
P("third child "loses"")=1/(2^2)
P("Nth child "loses"")=1/(2^N-1)
These are disjoint cases so the probability that the "loser" is decided on the first round is the sum of 1/(2^k) where k goes from 1 to N-1. Therefore the probability that the "loser" would be decided on the nth round is the sum of 1/(2^k) where k goes from 1 to nN-1. This is a geometric sum so the result would be 1-(1/(2^nN-1)).

The answer given in the book is p(1-p)^n-1, where p=N/2^(N-1).
That would be (N/2^(N-1))(1-(N/2^(N-1)))^n-1. This makes no sense to me because if for example there were 2 children deciding who hides and who seeks the probability that the seeker would be decided on the first round would be [(N=2,n=1)]:
(2/2^(2-1))(1-(2/2^(2-1)))^1-1=(2/2)*1=1

So what am I missing?

Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-20 16:28:52
October 20 2010 16:28 GMT
#2
The chance of the event happening on the Nth toss is:
p = [ n * 1 * 0.5 ^ (n - 1) ]

n = (n choose (n-1)) (any one of the n people could have the opposite)
1 = the one person could get either head or tail, does not affect probability
0.5 ^ (n - 1) = the remaining (n-1) people must get the opposite of the one person, hence the 0.5

For this to actually happen, on the previous (n-1) tosses, the previous condition must be false:
(1 - p ) ^ (n - 1)

Combine them together, you get:
p * (1 - p) ^ (n - 1)
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
Slithe
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States985 Posts
October 20 2010 19:05 GMT
#3
Let me see if I'm understanding the problem correctly. In each round, every single child flips a coin. If only one child doesn't match the others, that child becomes the counter. Otherwise, repeat the round. I assume this is what the problem is because the solution matches with this description.

If so, then the fault with your reasoning is that you cannot know that the second child is the loser until all the other children also flip their coins. Three person example:

First child flips H
Second child flips T (you would say child loses right here)
Third child flips T

Intuitively, it should be the case that all children have an equal probability of losing. The way you formulated the solution, the first child can never lose.

Cambium's solution looks correct. I'm going to present the solution in a different way, because sometimes it helps people to see things in multiple ways.

I usually look at probability in terms of the space of all possibilities. In this case, there are 2^N possible results for each round, where a result is the coin flips that the children get. Back to the three person example, here are the 2^3=8 possible outcomes.

HHH
HHT
HTH
THH
HTT
THT
TTH
TTT

Now, we want to figure out how many of these possible results are "losing" results (i.e. one child is different from the rest). In the three person case, we see there are 6 possibilities. Let's solve the general case.

Consider the scenario where only one child flips H. Using combinatorics, we can represent this as a choosing problem, where we only choose one child as the losing child.

(N choose 1) = N

The tails case is symmetric, so we now can see that there are 2*N possible results that are considered "losing" results. Putting it all together, we can see that the probability is:

2*N / (2^N) -------> N / (2^(N-1))

From here, you can just apply the geometric sequence to solve the rest of the problem.

It should be noted that this method works because all results are equally likely. If you have a problem where the likelihood of events is not equal, like with an unfair coin, then you would have to do weighted averages to compensate.
Glacierz
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1245 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-20 21:44:43
October 20 2010 21:29 GMT
#4
I think the notes above are too complicated. There are 2^n total possible outcomes, and out of those there are only 2 instances of the nth child losing: either HHHH....T or TTTTT....H, the probability is 2/(2^n), or 1/(2^(n-1)). OP you just missed a parenthesis, and you don't need to sum anything. The question asks you the probability that it is decided on the nth round, not by the nth round. Read more carefully.

Edit: this assumes a fair coin and n > 1 obviously. Base case is p = 0 for n = 1. In response to the post above: note that combination like HTH would have resulted on the second child losing, not the third.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
SEL Doubles #2
CranKy Ducklings101
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SpeCial 242
WinterStarcraft187
RuFF_SC2 147
ProTech105
Nina 70
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 5983
Mind 388
JulyZerg 64
yabsab 55
Noble 53
910 44
NaDa 42
Nal_rA 19
Dota 2
monkeys_forever615
NeuroSwarm72
Counter-Strike
taco 531
Other Games
C9.Mang0508
ViBE113
Sick72
Mew2King23
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick855
BasetradeTV290
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP40
• EnkiAlexander 38
• OhrlRock 4
• practicex 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• sM.Zik 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt298
Upcoming Events
Escore
6h 18m
The PondCast
6h 18m
WardiTV Invitational
7h 18m
Zoun vs Ryung
Lambo vs ShoWTimE
Big Brain Bouts
12h 18m
Fjant vs Bly
Serral vs Shameless
OSC
18h 18m
Replay Cast
20h 18m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 6h
RSL Revival
1d 6h
SHIN vs Bunny
ByuN vs Shameless
WardiTV Invitational
1d 7h
Krystianer vs TriGGeR
Cure vs Rogue
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 11h
[ Show More ]
BSL
1d 15h
Artosis vs TerrOr
spx vs StRyKeR
Replay Cast
1d 20h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Cure vs Zoun
Clem vs Lambo
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
BSL
2 days
Dewalt vs DragOn
Aether vs Jimin
GSL
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Soma vs Leta
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
OSC
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Light vs Flash
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-05-05
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
Escore Tournament S2: W6
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W7
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026: Closed Qualifier
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.