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I have always been absolutely terrible at BW. I am bad at RTS to begin with and BW is insanely hard. So, practice korean style and improve right?
43 ZvT's vs a friend (spread out over 2 months) later and I think I still haven't EVER won a ladder ZvT. Maybe I'm not practicing enough but if that's the case I just don't have the time let alone the patience to spend 20 minutes finding 1 game on Iccup and then hoping my opponent is Terran. I'm so bad at ZvP the last time I won a straight up game was two years ago vs my D- friend AND I ALMOST LOST THAT GAME.
So I'm giving up on improving at ZvT and ZvP. If I'm gonna play those matchups it won't be focused practice way with the intention of improving. It is too frustrating and I am too terrible to actually accomplish anything. No multitask, no macro, no game sense, no micro, I've got fucking nothing. I should just play Protoss because I'd still be bad but at least then I could win a game occasionally.
I've felt this way in the past and every time I've come back and tried again but this time I think I'm done for real. Hopefully I can actually improve at ZvZ but I'm betting I'll hit the same wall there and just give up on playing BW entirely.
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Watching pro vods really help
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Study before you play...then play more! 43 ZvT's in 2 months is less than a game a day...use TL to find a Terran practice partner who wants to learn TvZ and go from there.
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On October 01 2010 05:02 Tazza wrote:
Watching pro vods really help
obv I do that
On October 01 2010 05:04 thedeadhaji wrote:Just have fun--  actually I want to learn tvz so I'd be up for playing (my Terran is probably D lol)
go game now?
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
i'll play 1-2 games sure
op teamliquid on iccup
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43 ZvT's in 2 months and you're wondering why arent you improving? Its lesss than 1 game a day, lol. You got to play at least 5 a day imo if your looking to improve past D!
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There are two channels right now on iCCup server where you can find some BW practice partners who are from TL: "op irc" and "op teamliquid". gl hf.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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43 games and not 1 of them you 9 pooled vs a 14 cc or something? bad luck
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I'll play some games with you as well (i'm rusty, for your own benefit) 
I mean, the best way to improve, in my opinion, is just to get one good build order, and practice it as much as you can whilst trying to get your mechanics as good as they can be.
Thats what I did semi successfully!
Also, watching pro replays are helpful as well.
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Ares[Effort]
DEMACIA6550 Posts
When I wanted to improve my TvZ I use to play against my friend 10-15 games a day, eventually it became my best match up and I was competing against top zerg's in ares clan who're B+ A-. Imo 43 games spread over 2 months won't really help, I would say 250 games over 2 months at least.
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
I watched your game vs Amnesia... You just have to exploit weaknesses better. You seem content to do a little muta harass and nothing more. You need to be taking expos, defending them with lurks on ramps, countering him when he moves out , etc. Your army placement was somewhere outside your bridge for the majority of the game. Space your army out - place it in different control groups around the map so that you have the freedom to scout, deny expos, flank, and counter. Don't give up, there is no ceiling! GLHF
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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I know that 43 games over 2 months is not enough practice to get good. I don't really have the time to do more than that on average.
I also know that there are things that I should be doing better. The problem isn't that I don't know that I should be doing those things, it's that I don't have the multitask or the mechanics/apm to do them.
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
On October 01 2010 05:43 Crunchums wrote:
I know that 43 games over 2 months is not enough practice to get good. I don't really have the time to do more than that on average.
I also know that there are things that I should be doing better. The problem isn't that I don't know that I should be doing those things, it's that I don't have the multitask or the mechanics/apm to do them.
With 150 apm you can do the things I mentioned at least. You need to streamline your macro hotkeys. 0sz9sz8sz7sz6sz etc. then 1a2a3a4a5a. It doesn't take "multitask" or "apm", it just takes getting used to. Once you get used to that layout you will be pro.
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
On October 01 2010 05:44 thedeadhaji wrote:we can try standard zvt vs 1 rax FE next time
Every time :D
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i don't really know how people have the time to play 5-10 games of BW every day if they are in university while having not even a particularly active, but existent extracurricular life (job, sports, party, etc.)
i play a few games of BW every now and then, but i don't really have the time to devote to climbing up the ladder. it's up to you what you want to accomplish by playing BW. just have fun or get better? one takes way more time than the other.
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On October 01 2010 05:46 Murderotica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 05:43 Crunchums wrote:
I know that 43 games over 2 months is not enough practice to get good. I don't really have the time to do more than that on average.
I also know that there are things that I should be doing better. The problem isn't that I don't know that I should be doing those things, it's that I don't have the multitask or the mechanics/apm to do them. With 150 apm you can do the things I mentioned at least. You need to streamline your macro hotkeys. 0sz9sz8sz7sz6sz etc. then 1a2a3a4a5a. It doesn't take "multitask" or "apm", it just takes getting used to. Once you get used to that layout you will be pro.
I could perform those actions, but they would come at the expense of other actions - ie macro. I'm using 1-4 army and 5-0 hatcheries but my hands are so tiny that I can't macro effectively with 8-0. Once I get past 3 hatcheries my macro goes to shit.
ZvZ all the way lolololololololol (anyone want to play ZvZ with me?)
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Take my advice with a grain of salt, since I only got up to a high D+ level before I stopped, but what cracked ZvT for me was opening 3 hatch before pool every game, getting early evos and upgrading, muta-harass then lurkers to secure a third and fourth if handled well, and then going straight to ultras with +2 carapace already done. I played every game that way >_<, macro with ultras is pretty easy so it helped since I only had 110-120? apm.
Plus it makes you really good at anticipating/blocking bunker rushes.
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if ur playing less than 1 game a day your not going to get anybetter. you say you dont have the time but u have 7k posts. im getting the feeling ur just lazy.
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I cannot ZvP for my life. I see Protoss and I just play Terran. ZvZ is meh, the only matchup I like to play is ZvT o_O
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don't do 3h before pool. 1. terran can just do some allin rush with scvs and marines. 2. they can just do any standard tank push timing and your tech will be so late you'll die.
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i think to accommodate your life style, you should learn to how to improve more efficiently, since you want to improve with the least amount of time to at least enjoy the game. First you have to have foundation on the game. You have to be able to multitask to some degree if you want to have a chance in the (D) - (D+) ranks. I recommend just playing against comp, and practicing build orders non stop for a while until it becomes 2nd nature to you. Eventually you won't have to remember consciously what to do, you'll just do it. Executing these build orders takes multitasking skills, if you don't have a certain food supply at a certain timing, then you know you screwed up your build, so you keep practicing, until you can match the build order. Once you master or are comfortable with using the builds, you can then practice against the D ranks, and of course this type of practice is where you learn about your game sense. You'll say to yourself hmm, so if my opponent goes speedlots at around 7 mins, I should build hydras and simcity a bit faster in my current build to adapt to what hes doing, and etc.. all these things these little nuances of the builds, come from game sense. You do the core build orders, but you adjust them according to what you scout, and ofc you have to respond properly to your scouting info, like how fast is he getting the 2nd gas, take that into account to what type of army composition he might go for, etc...
So 3 main points are
1. Practice Build orders (this helps your multitasking ability)
2. Practice against D rank players when you are comfortable with your builds.
3. Learn your game sense and analyze what you scouted and how you should've responded.
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On October 01 2010 06:07 Crunchums wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 05:46 Murderotica wrote:On October 01 2010 05:43 Crunchums wrote:
I know that 43 games over 2 months is not enough practice to get good. I don't really have the time to do more than that on average.
I also know that there are things that I should be doing better. The problem isn't that I don't know that I should be doing those things, it's that I don't have the multitask or the mechanics/apm to do them. With 150 apm you can do the things I mentioned at least. You need to streamline your macro hotkeys. 0sz9sz8sz7sz6sz etc. then 1a2a3a4a5a. It doesn't take "multitask" or "apm", it just takes getting used to. Once you get used to that layout you will be pro. I could perform those actions, but they would come at the expense of other actions - ie macro. I'm using 1-4 army and 5-0 hatcheries but my hands are so tiny that I can't macro effectively with 8-0. Once I get past 3 hatcheries my macro goes to shit. ZvZ all the way lolololololololol (anyone want to play ZvZ with me?)
That hotkey spam is macroing though, so how would it come at the expense of macro?
OT: Don't be afraid to move your hand off of homerow, I have freakishly long fingers (inch longer than anyone else I know) and I have trouble hitting 9 and 0 too.
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
On October 01 2010 06:07 Crunchums wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 05:46 Murderotica wrote:On October 01 2010 05:43 Crunchums wrote:
I know that 43 games over 2 months is not enough practice to get good. I don't really have the time to do more than that on average.
I also know that there are things that I should be doing better. The problem isn't that I don't know that I should be doing those things, it's that I don't have the multitask or the mechanics/apm to do them. With 150 apm you can do the things I mentioned at least. You need to streamline your macro hotkeys. 0sz9sz8sz7sz6sz etc. then 1a2a3a4a5a. It doesn't take "multitask" or "apm", it just takes getting used to. Once you get used to that layout you will be pro. I could perform those actions, but they would come at the expense of other actions - ie macro. I'm using 1-4 army and 5-0 hatcheries but my hands are so tiny that I can't macro effectively with 8-0. Once I get past 3 hatcheries my macro goes to shit. ZvZ all the way lolololololololol (anyone want to play ZvZ with me?)
I have the tiniest hands in the world and I manage. All you gotta do is move them (: I'm 5'11 and my hands are only 7 inches from base to the tip of my middle finger.
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Thanks for the tips and stuff guys, but like I said I am done trying to improve. I'm just going to play for fun and even though I'll still be terrible it will be less frustrating because I'm not wasting my time trying to fix that.
Also this thread was great for finding people to play against
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I'll try to play you more often in ZvZ.
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I finished installing the new iccup launcher but you're gone. ):
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On October 01 2010 09:34 koreasilver wrote:
I finished installing the new iccup launcher but you're gone. ):
What account are you on? I'm there now.
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Pro level and D level are two entirely different things.
Example: Going corsair-reaver as protoss. My reaver has a life-span of exactly one minute. No matter what I try, he's the first to go. I've stopped doing that build, focused on expanding and macro, focus on getting a 200/200 army fast = almost insta win.
As a Zerg, If you can get a third base up vs. P early, the win is almost yours. Morph lurkers in front of his natural choke and have Hydras around. Most P can't break a contain, and even if that happens, Z can make an army from scratch in seconds.
Deny his third, work on a fourth and you're good. And invest in sunkens and spores. D-level protosses lose observers soooo easy. Also - Ultras are a bitch. If you can tech to it and have some lings run around, you're good. Also, dropping cracklings/lurkers in a P base is annoying as hell. Do that (:
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ah you dodged me ;;.. btw i can play mediocre TvZ if you want >_>
or are you solely playing ZvZ -_-..
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United States11393 Posts
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On October 01 2010 10:07 Kenpachi wrote:
ah you dodged me ;;.. btw i can play mediocre TvZ if you want >_>
or are you solely playing ZvZ -_-..
ofc I dodged you, I don't play vs Protoss : 3
I'm down for ZvT
Why would I read a guide on how to improve when I have given up on trying to improve ![[image loading]](http://forums.goodgamery.com/images/smilies/omg.gif)
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On October 01 2010 07:34 Metal[x] wrote:
don't do 3h before pool. 1. terran can just do some allin rush with scvs and marines. 2. they can just do any standard tank push timing and your tech will be so late you'll die.
We're talking about beating D level players here. Sure, he'll lose sometimes to bunker rushes, but 3 hatch before pool gives you a huge economic boost and I don't recall it slowing down your tech as much as you would suggest (unless the terran one based?, but you should scout that).
If you wanna win some games at D zvt, just open 3 hatch before pool a couple games, do midgame blah blah blah, go ultras and a-move.
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EPT
