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A few weeks ago, one of my favourite TeamLiquid members, Saracen, wrote a little blurb about how low level diamonds need to shut their bile holes and stop forming opinions because they're a pack of phenomenal idiots (granted, he didn't put it quite like that). So why is the StarCraft 2 forum still a collection of petrified stupid?
Bah, I'm being overly mean. Of course I am; I'm frustrated. I think the strategy forum has so much more potential than this, attainable with just a little dedication and deliberation. Unfortunately, it seems TL is content to let the entire subsection remain a breeding ground of disinformation and malcontent. To me, that defeats its entire purpose.
I was even willing to ignore it... until some gibbering tossers couldn't even watch eSports history in the making without unhinging their facevaginas and spewing the same tired bullshit I see everywhere else, effectively piddling all over the GSL live report thread. And they keep doing it. Fucking seriously?
Just. Fucking. Stop. Every worthwhile thing regarding TvZ balance has already been said by someone way smarter and infinitely more willing to make an effort than you. He's also handsomer, and probably has a bigger penis.[1]
Right. Sorry. Actual content.
Most of the people debating and theorycrafting right now lack solid fundamentals. They lack the years of experience and refinement necessary to attain the kind of game sense that for long-time pro gamers and tournament players is practically an intrinsic ability by now. There's just not a strong enough foundation for sound ideas there, so we end up with these loose situational theories that rely on the assumption that the opponent is walking down a narrow road from which there can be no deviation. Experienced pro gamers can see one step further and quickly find simple refutations. They're the ones whose input we really need, but they aren't going to be posting here now, are you kidding me? We've opened it up to everyone who ever thought cliff-jumping Zerglings sounds like a really keen idea. Whatever the pros have to say would be drowned out by the thousands of enlightened people happy to impart some of their infinite wisdom and knowledge on the rest of us.
By now, though, I've given up hope that TeamLiquid will change their stance on how to moderate the strategy forums. If they were going to restrict it any, they would have done so already. I guess I don't blame them for wanting to be accommodating, but they might as well have opened up a Complaints forum with a single two-word rule, "go nuts."
I just want an actual sub-forum that can call itself strategy with a straight face. I want a section whose main purpose is to further strategical thinking and output new and inventive builds. I want a place where actual thought and effort goes into the threads. I want a place where people far better than me congregate to have meaningful discussions about everything StarCraft.
And I want to be barred from participating in this section.
Why? Because I have no fucking business being in there! I don't know jack shit, and while we're at it, neither do you. If I give correct advice it's only because I'm parroting smart people. When I started playing StarCraft 1, I thought Zerg required less skill because all they did was mass a bunch of units and press the attack button.
Did I mention I was Protoss?
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/ZoO4r.png) Definitely not pictured: 1a2a3a
I hate to break it to all you mouthbreathers spamming the SC2 section, but this is you! You're the Protoss claiming that Zerg takes no skill! This is where you rank in StarCraftian understanding!
God.
Okay, okay. Stop breaking TL Commandment #10.
Look. Can we at least compromise? If a separate, veteran-only StarCraft strategy section represents an unfortunate schism, and poorly conceived theories and disinformation hinders the progression of StarCraft strategy, can we have a less retarded existing solution?
Put some thought and effort into your threads. Search for answers before you ask questions. Check if what you're about to post has already been posted. Seriously ask yourself if the strategy you're about to OP has been satisfactorily tested under various conditions. Search for build counters; if you find any, write them down, then give serious thought as to whether or not you can take advantage of your opponent's counter in some way and write those down, too. Post replays or screenshots or videos. Reference the players you practice with so we know you haven't just been beating randoms in gold league. Give us grounds to think you have a clue, because otherwise we won't have reason to believe in the validity of your opinion.
Damn it all. I just want a StarCraft 2 section housing intelligent, meaningful discussion.
Then maybe my sidebar won't look like this.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/WyYiM.png)
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[1] You tried to click that, didn't you? You sick little monkey.
 
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Great rant, would read again.
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Agreed. I remember I could actually post a question in the BW strat section and be able to get good concise answers from ~50% of the posts that helped improve my game. The thread also would naturally die in 1 or 2 pages because thats all that was necessary. Now in SC2 strategy forums, 99% of the posts are from people who know as much about SC2 as a D- does about BW and any given thread is at least 10 pages long with maybe (if you're lucky) 1 useful post in it.
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I personally find the SC2 forum incredibly amusing.
Anyway SC2 is new and it's nowhere near as balanced as BW. Nobody expected to be. This is going to stilt the entire subforum until it's not like that.
I think people have been spoiled by BW. Considering how polished it is we get a game that's currently much more uh...normal. It'll get better with time i'm sure but right now I think this will be as good as it's going to get. Even the very tiptop rage at how zerg is atm.
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Yay! angry rant feeds my brain and keeps it happy
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Honestly saying "x is imbalanced" should be ban material imo.
What does it actually achieve? Will Blizzard come and read your post and go OH YOU'RE RIGHT WE NEVER REALIZED THAT BEFORE?
If your has actual, new, useful content, fine, but keep it in the 10000 threads we have about it already so that people can read LR threads without facepalming.
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Great rant. I'm so fucking sick of most of the section being about how terran is imbalanced rather than what can be done to evolve strategies. It's rubbing off on a lot of people who don't understand the game, but think that just because random newbs on TL are posting that terran is imba means that T >>> P (when in fact many top players think P has the advantage). I seriously hope mods start handing out bans whenever someone's argument is that something is OP unless they have a very, very good reason to think so.
I also 100% support the idea of having a top player only section of the strategy forum. Maybe only let people in the top 50 or 100 lists (or be well known) post? Or invite only? That would make me a happy guy.
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I must agree, people have their own opinions about balance and that is OK with me. But the strategy forum is for strategy and not balance discussion. If people have problems with marauders or other units they should get on the strategy forums and discuss ways to play against them instead of blame the game and plaster it all over the strategy forums.
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There's a reason I only visit the Single Player section of the TL's SC2 forum. Completely agree with the OP btw.
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love the marauder picture haha!
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ahhh I tried to click on that fake link =(
I think what you described is the reality of the internet. People lose games, get frustrated and come on to the forums looking for advice/just to wind down. They go into any random thread and catches the words "terran", "tanks", "marauders" along with other posts crying out for a nerf and immediately all the rage and frustrations they have bottled up gets released into a forum post. When other players read such a post they also release their anger and causes a snowball effect.
It takes time for the game and its player base to mature. I also suspect since BW has such shitty graphics, it naturally repels younger players and trolls.
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On September 20 2010 08:10 Hikari wrote:
ahhh I tried to click on that fake link =(
I think what you described is the reality of the internet. People lose games, get frustrated and come on to the forums looking for advice/just to wind down. They go into any random thread and catches the words "terran", "tanks", "marauders" along with other posts crying out for a nerf and immediately all the rage and frustrations they have bottled up gets released into a forum post. When other players read such a post they also release their anger and causes a snowball effect.
It takes time for the game and its player base to mature. I also suspect since BW has such shitty graphics, it naturally repels younger players and trolls.
quite the opposite actually. sc2 repels a lot more younger kids and trolls cuz its fancier looking.
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only SC2 tab I have open is custom maps
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On September 20 2010 08:13 thedeadhaji wrote:all my sc2 tabs are closed yay! 
Not only that, but after I did it my blood pressure dropped considerably :D
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Mine too.Now TL needs pseudo blog section for SC2 which i can close, calendar without SC2 events and my life is complete.
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On September 20 2010 08:13 thedeadhaji wrote:all my sc2 tabs are closed yay!
and tech support, because i'm useless at that too.
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Should add a sticky saying if you talk about TvZ imbalance that is a repost of other threads because you didn't use the search function you shall be banned! That might cut down on it some, probably not though.
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oh wow can i just say that i love the ad on top?
i wanna play that :D
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JIJIyO
Canada1957 Posts
On September 20 2010 08:13 thedeadhaji wrote:all my sc2 tabs are closed yay!
Wow I had no idea you could close tabs. Closing them now!
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The SC2 forum is bad because its alot of people from WoW and other shit(read: non broodwar) games thinking TL is some ass place where they can spew forth garbage and not be banned for it.
People dont read the 10 commandments and then make shitty posts and get banned, or make some retarded remark to someone who actually knows what the fuck they are talking about.
and overall saying "derrrr im 900 diamond" isnt near as good as "Im B- protoss iccup"
because unlike Iccup ranks, SC2 ranks are so god awfully inflated(because of bonus pool) that the seemingly amazing "900+ diamond" player is more than likely just a D- from iccup who got up that high via bonus pool and other shit
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The SC2 forums are pretty trashy in comparison to the rest of the site. I don't know if the original BW discussion was ever like that (didn't ever get into the competitive BW scene prior to the game being balanced), but the current form of SC2 forums remind me of the WoW PVP forums where the majority sits around and whines of imbalance/"OH MY GOD, ____ ARE SOOO OVARRPOWERRED!!!". The only main difference is TL.net has a pretty cutthroat trolling policy.
Even when people try to make proper discussion threads there's always people who burst in and shit up the thread by commenting on the OP's points/ranking or having some demented ideology about how overpowered a unit is and refuse to acknowledge any argument stated.
That being said, nothings really going to be "fully balanced" for awhile regardless since the expansions will wonk stuff up.
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Excellent rant. I don't understand why there can't be a veteran forum open to read for everyone, but with actual posting priveleges reserved for gosus. It's a win-win.
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People are learning the game and years from now a 2-gate PvP opening will still be discussed because people are just finding out about the game - despite a search function and despite Liquipedia, discussions will still get repeated. It's the same for every game, no biggie. You can still have your quality topics - find an interesting mechanic, study it for a couple of days, make a nice quality OP and post it. You'll get your praise and at best, become spotlighted. Pat yourself on the back and game on. Not everyone is a die hard SC2 fan though. Some people are just trying to get some advice on how to snap some nerd necks, have some fun and move on to the next game. And I think that's just as valid a reason to post in the strategy forum as any.
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that baby-crying over marauder picture is now my background lol thank you
stopped reading SC2 Strategy after i saw my (second?) suggestion from different people that Zerglings need an upgrade to allow them to fly up and down cliffs to improve zerg's scouting.
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Hey my sc2 tabs are like that too! Collapsed SC2 forum bars make my enjoyment of TL 100x better. Still, as you demonstrated, the shit still seeps over into Live Report threads.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
i'm teetering dangerously close to outright banning the word 'imbalance' from live report threads
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Lol great rant!
I'm glad you took it on board to speak on behalf of the rest of us.
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I completely agree with what you've said. Most of the time I see glaring flaws in what people are posting, and I know for damn sure I don't know jack shit, it's just fucking sad. I vote that all strategy posts require approval, so that morons eventually learn the hard way that there's no reason to post. It'll take a good bit of time, sure, but it will be worth it in the end. Or maybe I'm wrong, but hell at least I have the brains to admit I may be.
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Your footnote made the whole post like 5x better.
[edit] However, there is one issue with segregated forums (not a particular hard one to deal with, but an issue nonetheless). When pros explain a strategy, build, or what have you, they tend to leave unsaid a lot of small things they've learned through experience or what have you that are fundamentally important to why the build works. These things, if the player trying to build doesnt know them, tend to render the build significantly less effective.
Now, granted, most of the people who'd get segregated out of a forum would be like 'I PLAYED TWO GAMES AND LOST BOTH OF THEM THIS BUILD IS TERRIBLE' and the world would become a worse place. But once in a while someone will recognize how retarded they are now, and ask a perfectly worded, humble, and poetic gem of a question. And even more rarely, they actually get a good answer to it, and the world becomes a better place.
There needs to be some kind of discussion between the pros and the terribads, otherwise the two groups become completely insular and everyone suffers (although, mostly, its just the terribads who suffer).
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best marauder picture ever
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Completely agree. I've been really disappointed by how lenient the mods have been in those forums. It's so hard to find threads worth reading. Every new idea is just shouted down with "Unit x and y counter that unit so hard, this build is garbage".
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My side bar has all the SC2 tabs closed.
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United States4126 Posts
On September 20 2010 08:31 JIJIyO wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 08:13 thedeadhaji wrote:all my sc2 tabs are closed yay! Wow I had no idea you could close tabs. Closing them now!
Holy crap, me neither O_O
I totally agree with you OP, but this problem isn't going to remedy itself any time soon. There's an inflow of new posters everyday that just don't take the time to do everything you said and flood the forums with their "great ideas".
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On September 20 2010 09:33 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
i'm teetering dangerously close to outright banning the word 'imbalance' from live report threads
Do it please, we are at your mercy
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On September 20 2010 09:33 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
i'm teetering dangerously close to outright banning the word 'imbalance' from live report threads
yes please, it really gets into my nerves when people complain too much about it..
it gives me a really good feeling when I read lrs the following day with people getting what they deserve.
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Someone should write a code so whenever someone says the word "imbalanced" it is replaced by the word "mysterious" or some other cool adjective. That way we wouldn't have to look at the word and still get lols from awful posts.
Terran is so mysterious.
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I really wish they would just start handing out permanent bans to people who post stupid shit in the strategy forums.
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The BW strategy section was also had some pretty painful advice that made me want to gouge my eyes, but this was back when people still went there ( ).
On September 20 2010 11:00 Fritts wrote:
Someone should write a code so whenever someone says the word "imbalanced" it is replaced by the word "mysterious" or some other cool adjective. That way we wouldn't have to look at the word and still get lols from awful posts.
Terran is so mysterious.
Hahahaha "Stupid mysterious 5 Rax reapers"
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On September 20 2010 11:32 SubtleArt wrote:The BW strategy section was also had some pretty painful advice that made me want to gouge my eyes, but this was back when people still went there ( ). Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 11:00 Fritts wrote:
Someone should write a code so whenever someone says the word "imbalanced" it is replaced by the word "mysterious" or some other cool adjective. That way we wouldn't have to look at the word and still get lols from awful posts.
Terran is so mysterious. Hahahaha "Stupid mysterious 5 Rax reapers"
Oh man, this is the best idea ever. And I know such word replacement program can actually be written, though I am unsure whether it could be successfully applied to big site such as TL.
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I don't think the start forums are that much of a problem since everyone thinks they know best and like to voice their opinion. It's the LR threads that are really annoying, stopped reading the sc2 ones cause it's not even about what the players are doing, it's what race is being more gay than the other race. (even when it's a mirror match -_-)
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i clicked on the "and probably has a bigger penis than you" hoping that it would be a link.
wait..... what?
On September 20 2010 11:00 Fritts wrote:
Someone should write a code so whenever someone says the word "imbalanced" it is replaced by the word "mysterious" or some other cool adjective. That way we wouldn't have to look at the word and still get lols from awful posts.
Terran is so mysterious.
omfg r1ch get on it plz, holy shit that would be hilarious
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you could just close all the new threads and force the balance discussions into the old and reputable threads that have ops written by the ppl to be parroted.
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On September 20 2010 08:30 seRapH wrote:
oh wow can i just say that i love the ad on top?
i wanna play that :D
Thanks, so do I! I wonder if the alpha build still exists on some disc somewhere. Hell, this marks the second time I've dragged the alpha build into one of my blog posts, although this one was way more subtle. Props for noticing that silly detail.
On September 20 2010 09:16 Asdkmoga wrote:
that baby-crying over marauder picture is now my background lol thank you
Hah! You're welcome, but isn't it way too white?
On September 20 2010 10:09 kzn wrote:
Your footnote made the whole post like 5x better.
I was disturbingly pleased with myself over it. I'm glad someone commented.
On September 20 2010 11:37 Hesmyrr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 11:32 SubtleArt wrote:The BW strategy section was also had some pretty painful advice that made me want to gouge my eyes, but this was back when people still went there ( ). On September 20 2010 11:00 Fritts wrote:
Someone should write a code so whenever someone says the word "imbalanced" it is replaced by the word "mysterious" or some other cool adjective. That way we wouldn't have to look at the word and still get lols from awful posts.
Terran is so mysterious. Hahahaha "Stupid mysterious 5 Rax reapers" Oh man, this is the best idea ever. And I know such word replacement program can actually be written, though I am unsure whether it could be successfully applied to big site such as TL.
Those examples were really funny. :D
Something Awful has fuck -> gently caress, so it definitely can be applied to a big site.
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When I started playing StarCraft 1, I thought Zerg required less skill because all they did was mass a bunch of units and press the attack button.
Did I mention I was Protoss?
lol
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5-star post I'd love to be able to read an invite-only or somehow-filtered Strategy section -- 1500 and up or something like that. Not sure how you'd go about it, but find a way.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
would you still be happy to read it if you were unable to post?
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On September 20 2010 14:00 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
would you still be happy to read it if you were unable to post?
VERY
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On September 20 2010 14:00 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
would you still be happy to read it if you were unable to post?
Sure. If I want advice on some aspect of gameplay, it'd be nice to just go there and search, then find an answer. Rather than wading through theorycraft and bad ideas.
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10/5
What I used to do for the bw strat section was simply look for the [G] tag. In those you would typically find an accomplished player spelling out particular nuances in a build or play style along with reps (eg. stylish, walling thread) so that you can learn off of them. Debating over strategy typically leads nowhere as nobody wants to commit to actually improving and showcasing their ability and understanding.
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On September 20 2010 14:00 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
would you still be happy to read it if you were unable to post?
God yes.
Really, I don't know how successful you might be in getting really high level players involved, but if anyone can do it, it'd be TeamLiquid. Just imagine the likes of HuK, White-Ra, and (holy mother of god yes) TLO sharing their insight and creativity. That place would be holy ground as far as I'm concerned.
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shit is still happening at a ridiculous rate. It's pretty sad when you need a mod constantly watching every report thread just so it doesn't turn to complete shit
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/THcIe.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/XJ1FD.gif)
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