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Being in the dessert theres only a few things I can, post these dumb blogs to express my feelings, watch replays, and post these dumb blogs to express my feelings. After watching rep after rep after rep I start to notice a lot of things players arent doing or something that just doesn't feel right.
In Brood war when you watched a pro rep you could really feel complete dominance and the feeling of "he's doing what i think he should do and he's pulling it off exactly how it's suppose to be." I really want to focus on Socke here. This guy is an up and coming player finding more and more success the more he plays. However! The more replays I watch of him I really just can't understand how other levels of protoss and zergs aren't ripping through players like this.
For instance! The genreal populas is saying how you don't need quick hand speed to be good at starcraf2. I disagree with this 100% That's like fat people saying real beauty is on the inside. We'll I guess that true in a depressing kind of way but only to someone who isn't setting their sights high enough. 150 apm will make you what I think is an average player. This will allow you to have a decent macro ability, crappy micro, but allow you to do the build orders and timings that are current at the moment. What people are missing out on is a million of the small things.
Like every great player will say, it's all the small things that add up to make a good player great. Examples of this are transferring your probes and having them dilver minerals to that newly formed expo on the Dime! Not transfer when its finished but already be ready to rock when it's done. Not sending your entire army to fend off harass. Just because he has a drop ship with a few hellions doesn't merit a code red response! The main ability of warp gates is to provide insant units in any location but where are the protoss players putting pylons everywhere? With high temps being able to insta storm you would think more protoss would be doing this. Cracking off some storms as the terran army moves out. Players are very complacent in todays skill and don't take the risks they should be doing.
I see Protoss players clump their units when it's been emphasized by the entire community pvt this is what you DON'T do. I'm talking even top level gamers like Huk and Socke. They don't separate until a big battle is about to ensue, people are lucky terran are developing slowly or cloaked ghosts with emp would be shitting on a lot of faces about now. This attention to detail players are leaving out are keeping the learning down. Forgetting about chrono boost in your nexus then spamming it when your in trouble. If you were doing your job you should have been using it the entire time.
It is easy to judge peoples performance on replays and even harder to execute but the amount of money floating around in all of these tournament, the amount of skill winning them is inexcusable. This is just one of those things I wanted to get off my chest. Am I the only person who feels the same way?
 
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Young game, lots of noobs, lots of improvement to be done. Though with 150 apm you can play sc2 pretty much perfectly as long as you can spike to 200-250 at important moments.
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yep. wait for all of the people who just play for a few weeks or just start playing ums maps to kick in. the skill level will filter quite a bit.
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
Lol this blog has a lot of hilarious moments while also speaking some truth imo. Good shit, enjoyed the read. You are rough around the edges in some way but it's that dry almost ignorant humor that makes this a good post. Thanks.
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i sort of understand what you are coming from, but i do think that stuff like this is what is going to make the game evolve. it's going to eventually seperate the good players from the gosus.
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I disagree with this, with 150 apm you cant properly harass, micro and macro. I have watched enough replays to see evidence of this. It's like watching a baby take his first steps. It's very slow to watch someone harass while trying to do other things. People are focusing on just one thing at a time and not multiple like they should be doing.
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Calgary26003 Posts
The game is a month old. BW is 12 years old. Give it time.
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On September 02 2010 05:42 Chill wrote:
The game is a month old. BW is 12 years old. Give it time.
That's an excuse to me. People should consider BW as the training grounds for SC2. The fundamentals and mechanics have already been established but people are just lazy about it. SC2 gives a lot of freedoms BW didn't have and provides an easier learning curve but I just think that anyone who has played brood war should know what it takes. ie.. Chill. You should know 
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Hmmm, do you think 2 months into SC1 people like boxer were playing at boxer level remembering to do everything they should be doing? The reason people are so amazing now at SCBW is because they have played it for YEARS upon YEARS. You simply cannot honestly expect people to play SC2 like they can play SC1. In SC1, wunderkid Kolll made it to A- after only playing 6 months and that was amazing that anyone could be that good at SCBW after only playing 6 months. How can people become equally amazing at SC2 after just 2 months? People haven't developed muscle memory and they will forget stuff. It's not engrained in their brains. For example, look at the top 200 in US and Europe. Not a single person has played more than a few hundred games! How can you become as good as you are wanting them to be after so few games? Impossible, and if you don't think it's impossible, well why don't YOU do it?
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You expect too much of people. If top players can't play perfectly yet, maybe that shows that doing so is really fucking hard?
Of course if you disagree I'm sure the whole community would love for you to show us how easy it is.
Also for someone who expects so much from others, your spelling is atrocious... it really hinders comprehension.
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Calgary26003 Posts
On September 02 2010 05:44 UBERtoSS_hV wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 05:42 Chill wrote:
The game is a month old. BW is 12 years old. Give it time. That's an excuse to me. People should consider BW as the training grounds for SC2. The fundamentals and mechanics have already been established but people are just lazy about it. SC2 gives a lot of freedoms BW didn't have and provides an easier learning curve but I just think that anyone who has played brood war should know what it takes. ie.. Chill. You should know
Okay, I don't know what to tell you except that you're wrong. Have you played either game at a high level?
It's like saying when the UFC started getting popular it should have been at the same level as it is now - martial arts have been around forever and should have been the training grounds for the UFC.
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On September 02 2010 05:44 UBERtoSS_hV wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 05:42 Chill wrote:
The game is a month old. BW is 12 years old. Give it time. That's an excuse to me. People should consider BW as the training grounds for SC2. The fundamentals and mechanics have already been established but people are just lazy about it. SC2 gives a lot of freedoms BW didn't have and provides an easier learning curve but I just think that anyone who has played brood war should know what it takes. ie.. Chill. You should know
what about WC3. At the time it was out people already knew about the benefits of being fast and yet we still had pros that were hovering at around 100ish apm. And everyone said exactly the same that APM doesnt matter in wc3.
Lo and behold a few years later pros were over 200apm and displaying micro rivaling their SCBW counterparts.
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On September 02 2010 05:42 UBERtoSS_hV wrote:
I disagree with this, with 150 apm you cant properly harass, micro and macro. I have watched enough replays to see evidence of this. It's like watching a baby take his first steps. It's very slow to watch someone harass while trying to do other things. People are focusing on just one thing at a time and not multiple like they should be doing.
Uhm.. In SC2, With 150 APM(according to the in-replay APM counter), you can easily micro and macro without problems...
But if you are talking about 150 APM in broodwar, I can understand that..
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Watch players like Tester and tell me it can't be done. The game is out for a short amount of time but the things people we forgetting were the simple things from BW. There aren't some new tricks in SC2 that make it harder to do the simple things. If we are going to do MMA references, i'd think it's comparable to a boxer learning to incorporate grappling then forgetting how to box. Such hostility from everyone! But that's ok. As for ME doing it? I think we are forgetting the point of the post here fellas. I was wondering how as the "top" levels are players forgetting these things? As for my spelling? Who cares rofl. I'm not trying to publish a book here, just write a blog.
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On September 02 2010 05:55 TwilightStar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 05:42 UBERtoSS_hV wrote:
I disagree with this, with 150 apm you cant properly harass, micro and macro. I have watched enough replays to see evidence of this. It's like watching a baby take his first steps. It's very slow to watch someone harass while trying to do other things. People are focusing on just one thing at a time and not multiple like they should be doing. Uhm.. In SC2, With 150 APM(according to the in-replay APM counter), you can easily micro and macro without problems... But if you are talking about 150 APM in broodwar, I can understand that..
Do you have 150 apm? Definitely not enough to play zerg at full capacity.
There is a reason Dimaga and Sen have 200+ SC2 apm and are two toppest zergs.
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My brain is literally melting from the inanity of this blog.
There is absolutely no measuring stick for what is "good play" other than the play of the average player. This is the height of elitist bullshit from people who are spoiled by the fine-tuning achieved in one of the most complex and durable games of all time. Your idea of perfection exists nowhere but inside your head; it will take years even for the most elite to reach it. If it were easy, why the hell would none of the thousands of sc2 players who play and study the Game for an unhealthy number of hours each day be able to achieve it? Oh right, every one is stupid and incompetent.
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
On September 02 2010 05:44 UBERtoSS_hV wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 05:42 Chill wrote:
The game is a month old. BW is 12 years old. Give it time. That's an excuse to me. People should consider BW as the training grounds for SC2. The fundamentals and mechanics have already been established but people are just lazy about it. SC2 gives a lot of freedoms BW didn't have and provides an easier learning curve but I just think that anyone who has played brood war should know what it takes. ie.. Chill. You should know
Alright basically where I think the fault lies is in part due to what you're saying but also in part it contradicts you as well. Here is the way I see it:
In the early day of BW the apm was lower not only because the game is fresh but because it didn't DEMAND the apm from the players, because their gaming environment wasn't as competitive as it is today. What I mean is that you are one of the few 100 apm players playing back in 1999 and you run into 95% 50 apm players and below, what NEED do you have to play faster if you are already so superior to the average skill level of the tier below you? The tier below you being that 4% that play at 80 apm or something (you being the 1%). So therefore, due to a lack of pressure, there is a lack of demand for the best to improve. The best improve only when they notice themselves fall behind either relative to their own group (the other best rising to 125 apm), or the tier below (them rising to your level of apm in greater numbers, therefore making each game harder and you being forced to play at your maximum potential more often, therefore tuning your sense of the game and etc. because each game you play challenges you more you feel the need to rise above again as a psychological reaction of being a usurped gosu). So therefore, you are right about this: the lack of APPARENT motivation from most players to get better is indicative of complacency, and thus people should be more motivated. But there need to be more players that naturally rise up to achieve that competitive motivation of "I want to be as good as those guys that keep raping me" in order to rise to a level where they pressure the current pros. That will certainly take time more than anything... So Chill is very much right. People can't help it if they advance in SC2 poorly despite their BW experience even if they used to be gosu, and that is because a large portion of the SC2 playerbase has never played BW or any similar game even and thus starts off at a large handicap, diluting the player base with noobs.
Mmm, I like this post... So high, sorry if I fucked up a lot of shit.
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On September 02 2010 05:49 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 05:44 UBERtoSS_hV wrote:On September 02 2010 05:42 Chill wrote:
The game is a month old. BW is 12 years old. Give it time. That's an excuse to me. People should consider BW as the training grounds for SC2. The fundamentals and mechanics have already been established but people are just lazy about it. SC2 gives a lot of freedoms BW didn't have and provides an easier learning curve but I just think that anyone who has played brood war should know what it takes. ie.. Chill. You should know Okay, I don't know what to tell you except that you're wrong. Have you played either game at a high level? It's like saying when the UFC started getting popular it should have been at the same level as it is now - martial arts have been around forever and should have been the training grounds for the UFC.
I mean, he's not completely wrong. I feel like that's a fair point. There's no reason you should be playing sc2 slower than Broodwar.
However, it's true that a lot of the APM in Broodwar were sort of hardwired into you, like macro cycles, worker splits, and harass techniques (a la mutas). You never really though about it, you just thought "oh i need to do harassment" then selected mutas and spammed rightclick and P/H/A.
The issue I think the OP is stating is that the effort is not showing up in the matches. Clearly, there are loads of little things that even the pros are completely overlooking and it's not like in matches you see them try and fail. They just seem content with what they are already doing and just trying to improve that as opposed to adding in new elements. Which they totally could because, at least imo, the level of pro sc2 playing looks on the slow side right now.
Unless I have no idea what i'm talking about in which case please take pity
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On September 02 2010 05:58 UBERtoSS_hV wrote:Watch players like Tester and tell me it can't be done. The game is out for a short amount of time but the things people we forgetting were the simple things from BW. There aren't some new tricks in SC2 that make it harder to do the simple things. If we are going to do MMA references, i'd think it's comparable to a boxer learning to incorporate grappling then forgetting how to box. Such hostility from everyone! But that's ok. As for ME doing it? I think we are forgetting the point of the post here fellas. I was wondering how as the "top" levels are players forgetting these things? As for my spelling? Who cares rofl. I'm not trying to publish a book here, just write a blog.
just like everyone else you overrate tester. Even though he's a former top SC1 pro so he has work ethics and ability to perform closer to perfection.
And the reason for "forgetting" is not forgetting but rather the fact that there is no set in stone course of action there is no flash build there is no tornado terran, tehre is just adjusting your strategies on the fly.
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EPT
