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This is theory-crafting only backed up by me beating random newbs in custom games (highest player I queued against was Platinum).
I really like my build nonetheless. I hate ling/bling--> muta. ZvZ is one of the reasons I don't play random atm. Its just not fun for me at all.
So, my unit composition is Roach/Hydra/infestor with +1 (or +2) armor). The armor is very effective against both lings and mutas, and since fungal growth will be much of my damage, upgrading damage becomes less valuable.
Get early roaches to defend so that you don't have to invest in lings/blings yourself early on (or you can, and transition out of it). Get an evo chamber for +1 armor and lay down spore crawlers in your mineral lines (as few as possible, but some). The timing on mutas seems to hit a bit too hard if you dont, but, again, a better Zerg player might be fine.
Instead of going mutas yourself, get hydras, which easily beat Mutas for cost. Try and get lair when they get lair, as your hydra den will finish before spire no matter what. Yes, getting Hydras instead of Mutas gives up map control. Its fine, because we're gonna play like a Terran, and it will feel good.
Get as much gas as you can, and lay down an infestation pit. Macro up an army of infestor/hydra with however many raoches you feel you need. The roaches are mainly to tank lings and banelings that get past your fungals and to sink spare minerals with a unit that doesnt go splat to banelings.
Keep an infestor near each hatchery and fungal if they try and harrass. Try and refungal if needed to keep them snared until hydras can arrive to pwn them from outside their crap 3 range.
Macro up on 2 bases and move out with an army of roach/hydra/infestor with as much armor as you can. Don't try and match their expansions. You're playing like a Terran... macro up your army and move out to win. You gave up map control. Fungal mutas and lings/blings as much as you can. keep them out of range of your ranged units with fungals and kill them for free.
If you can make it past the early game it seems to be fairly successful. A stack of Mutas REALLY suffers if it gets fungaled. Armor on roaches with speed makes kiting nice when you can. You have a lot of flexibility with upgrades, and the timings will need to be nailed out.
Obviously I don't even play Zerg as my main race so I don't have exact timings or anything. This just seems like a build with some potential if better Zerg players work on the details.
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I've been doing the first half of what you said for a little while. Roaches with +1 attack kill lings disgustingly fast and roaches with +1 carapace are pretty well invincible to them. Then you get the crazy DPS of the hydralisk added in behind the invincible roaches and you're in amazing shape. I haven't really tried to transition into infestors yet which I should at least try a few times. But hydras are pretty expensive on the gas too, can you really afford infestors? I guess you only need a few.
Anyways, pretty neat idea.
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On August 29 2010 05:37 Bibbit wrote:
I've been doing the first half of what you said for a little while. Roaches with +1 attack kill lings disgustingly fast and roaches with +1 carapace are pretty well invincible to them. Then you get the crazy DPS of the hydralisk added in behind the invincible roaches and you're in amazing shape. I haven't really tried to transition into infestors yet which I should at least try a few times. But hydras are pretty expensive on the gas too, can you really afford infestors? I guess you only need a few.
Anyways, pretty neat idea.
Thanks.
You tend to go pretty light on Hydras so that you can afford the infestors (lighter than could win in a straight fight, perhaps).Thankfully, with fungals on the mutas, you can out-range them and take zero damage on your Hydras. Along with the fairly significant amount of damage the fungal causes.
It seems to me to be a definitely more APM-intensive and mechanically challenging style of ZvZ, but I think it has the potential to be pretty rewarding if the timings get worked out and in the hands of a good player.
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fungaling a concentration part of banelings would be awesome too. saves a lot of damage, and doesn't surge your army's DPS capacity.
but even if ur going RHI, wouldn't it be wise and cost efficient to mix in a dash of banelings, since he's all ling/bling for his ground?
when u push out, how do u deal against ling rungby's? it would be map dependent i guess. would u have to wall off with roaches and bulidings?
and since ur ranged, u can micro back roaches much like terran does with MM. if u have funals to spare.
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On August 29 2010 05:46 waffling1 wrote:
fungaling a concentration part of banelings would be awesome too. saves a lot of damage, and doesn't surge your army's DPS capacity.
but even if ur going RHI, wouldn't it be wise and cost efficient to mix in a dash of banelings, since he's all ling/bling for his ground?
when u push out, how do u deal against ling rungby's? it would be map dependent i guess. would u have to wall off with roaches and bulidings?
and since ur ranged, u can micro back roaches much like terran does with MM. if u have funals to spare.
So far, I've basically been playing like a Terran. I stay in my main/natural area until I have the army I plan on winning with. I don't vie for map control. If they runby, I could probably win the base trade pretty easily.
Since this build is kinda rare, everyone I've played against has thrown away at least an entire fungal radius of mutas. Perhaps if this became a known build, smarter play from my opponents would make it far, far worse. If it goes into later game burrow could make burrowed infestors near the mineral lines pretty effective as well. One fungal and a couple Hydras and queens
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i have never built a baneling in zvz and i do a strat similar to this and get roughly70% win ratio. that said since he goes mutas and if you go hydras you damn better be ready for banelings, because banelings rape hydras. but yeah i hate banelings in zvz. like you cant overcommit with hydras. its good to have a mix of roach in there as well.
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On August 29 2010 05:53 OneFierceZealot wrote:
i have never built a baneling in zvz and i do a strat similar to this and get roughly70% win ratio. that said since he goes mutas and if you go hydras you damn better be ready for banelings, because banelings rape hydras. but yeah i hate banelings in zvz. like you cant overcommit with hydras. its good to have a mix of roach in there as well.
Imagine if something like this became "the" ZvZ build? Lol Neural Parasite research and trying to MC eachothers infestors ftw.
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EPT
