• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 22:19
CET 04:19
KST 12:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT29Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Team Liquid Map Contest - Preparation Notice6Weekly Cups (Feb 23-Mar 1): herO doubles, 2v2 bonanza1Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles0Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0258
StarCraft 2
General
Vitality disbanding their sc2-team How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Team Liquid Map Contest - Preparation Notice ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000 WardiTV Winter Championship 2026 Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare
Brood War
General
BSL 22 Map Contest — Submissions OPEN to March 10 battle.net problems Are you ready for ASL 21? Hype VIDEO BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Flash's ASL S21 & Future Plans Announcement
Tourneys
ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues BWCL Season 64 Announcement [BSL22] Open Qualifier #1 - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
No Man's Sky (PS4 and PC) Path of Exile PC Games Sales Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Mexico's Drug War Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Gaming-Related Deaths
TrAiDoS
ONE GREAT AMERICAN MARINE…
XenOsky
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1698 users

[Spoilers] MSL Finals (I went)

Blogs > oBlade
Post a Reply
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5920 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-28 16:28:02
August 28 2010 16:16 GMT
#1
Here I will try to explain what it's like to watch LeeSsangRok in person.

This was the first pro SC match I'd gone to live. The turnout is the hardest thing to really understand. Baseball games happen all the time, but they draw a respectable crowd, even in Korea. The crowd today - for LeeSsangRok finals - was numerically less than the average baseball game (here you inject yourself with "actually it's a lot of people for just watching two guys play a video game! where else in the world-"). I'm glad I've never been to a regular Proleague match because the measly crowds there are nothing. I imagine I'd feel embarrassment for the players that they have to play in those tiny studios.

However, Korean enthusiasm is ubiquitous in any of these sporting events. If you go to a baseball game or the MSL finals, you have to cheer for someone. There is no way to go there and be a disinterested spectator. Even if you respect and adore both players, you'll eventually get sucked into either the white colors on one side cheering for one party or the orange colors on the other side cheering for the other guy.

I picked Jaedong because to me he's the guy who ought to win. Let me explain with historical examples so you don't chew me out for using a truism. I would have cheered in his place for Boxer over iloveoov, for YellOw over iloveoov, for sAviOr over Bisu, for H.O.T-Forever over Sync. In other words I would have cheered for Jaedong because he's older on the scene and because he's supposed to be the champion. He's also the defender because Flash won last time so it's sort of his turn. I'd rather not cheer for the guy who is closer to flavor of the month.

The venue was great. You probably saw the pyro effects on the stream, but the biggest thing that doesn't translate on the internet is the volume. Also, it's cool once you process that your heroes are actually in the little booths, and it brings them down to earth. This is also part of why you have to cheer for someone.

I got to the Samsan Gym 1 game late. I saw and heard that Flash had won the first game. This made my heart sink and jump to thoughts of 3-0 in Hana Daetoo MSL. In hindsight, I should have remembered that Jaedong is allowed, even encouraged, to drop the first game. Watching the replay I saw that it appeared to have been a rape. Jaedong went for hydralisks when it looked like Flash was going for a mech build, but he went biomech (importantly I don't think it was in the iloveoov style or fantasy style, but rather in the Flash goliath->bionic way without valkyries or usually tanks - but I haven't actually seen the game yet). Marines kill hydralisks and Jaedong died.

Set 2 was the first game I actually saw. Before the game, Jaedong closed his eyes, as though to clear his mind, as he and some other players do from time to time. This doesn't actually help. I think he did this before 3set of Hana Daetoo (the Match Point game where Jaedong failed a 3hatch hydra bust and then died). Clearing your mind is the opposite of what you want when you lose the first set. You need the transcendent super-focus without sweating or nerves that boosts your competence. The game was on Odd-Eye, which in Hana Daetoo was the game (I believe) where Flash went valkonic and killed Jaedong's 3rd with ease. This time he did a 4factory goliath build. I think the players had opened up 14cc and 3hatch before pool and Jaedong was going for hydras before mutas. He poked into Flash's wall and killed a depot but this only gave Flash more room to bust out with the goliath clump he was massing from his 4 factories. Jaedong massed a bunch of hydralisks and I think the +1 spines attack upgrade finished. Flash went for Jaedong's 3rd and while he tried to get 2 sunkens up and sandwich Flash, he didn't have enough to wipe out Flash's army, and he could barely even delay him. He lost a lot of hydras and retreated, but his third died and Flash had tanks on the way. GG.

Set 3 could have gone either way. I assume every Flash fan wanted a quick 3-0 like Hana Daetoo, but this time Jaedong didn't close his eyes to clear his mind. His face had the focus of the Tyrant. Flash didn't 14cc, but after scouting Jaedong's 12hatch, he build his CC off of no marines. Flash at the bottom left went for a standard 9min push, probably because of both the need for series build variance and the fact that Fighting Spirit is the map to go bio on. Jaedong at the top left went for a standard 3hatch muta 3gas hive. First, he took the bottom right main as his third, but after Flash killed it before it could morph, JD took the top right main behind lurkers. Barely behind lurkers. He tried to stop-lurker Flash with great intel but Flash went around using his intuition. By the time Flash had collected his tanks and science vessel and pushed to JD's main, JD already had defilers waiting and easily pushed back Flash with some swarms. This put Flash in the unfortunate situation where all you do is macro off of 2base and try to use micro and aggression against a Z with nydus canals and defense everywhere. Later Flash tried to bust up the top right main but Jaedong killed his whole army with defiler control reminiscent of GGPlay. This looked inconsequential after Flash massed a new army having accrued an impressive vessel fleet, but then we saw Jaedong had a reserve of about a control group of scourge and the plague research to deal with vessels. Flash busted top right again with erasers and kept all his vessels alive while killing JD's scourge mass with marines. This looked very bad, but JD had gotten some ultras out. Then he had 8-10 ultras out. Flash lost control of 6 o'clock to a couple of lurkers and the remnants of JD's original muta flock. Jaedong's side of the crowd roared for his ultras. Flash's side roared when he saved his floating 3rd CC from deep red health with one repairing SCV. Flash lost some vessels and I don't really remember anything in the right order, but everyone was amazed at the 3 dropships. It takes ingenuity and foresight to send 3 dropships to your enemy's base. However, Jaedong's hive was at his natural and with some good defense and plagues, all JD lost was a spawning pool. Flash was wrecked.

Set 4 is traditionally (see BoxeR vs iloveoov, NaDa vs JangBi, et al.) the set when someone prepares a build. This is because if you're down 1-2 in set 4, you automatically have a practiced build to turn to and regain control of the series. However, if you're up 2-1, you have a build that you prepared beforehand for an easy win. Evidently Flash had some sort of build prepared (taken from his interview), but he died before he could use it. He spawned at 12 on Triathlon and tried to wall at his natural, but this means that marines get spit out on the wrong side of the barracks. He remedied this with a special wall involving 2 supply depots and a command center (T1 terrans also have some ingenious command center walls), but a Jaedong drone delayed the second supply depot for long enough that by the time JD's zerglings got to the wall, they could kill all the SCVs before they finished the depot. And you can't repair a depot before it's finished, so Flash's wall was fucked. He ended up defending the first few zerglings, but then he lifted his buildings because the barracks was blocking where the natural CC should be and Jaedong "made extra zerglings" bringing a quick GG from Flash. This game reminded me of Boxer and YellOw on Fighting Spirit. A traditionally "dishonest" Terran usurped by some zerglings.

Set 5, finally we get one! Jaedong opens with 2hatch muta into 4base hive, something of a Zerg trend on Polaris Rhapsody. You use the 2hatch muta for early map control and then defend 9min push with extra lurkers/Lair tech (because the third is 2gas, you get 4gas) and enter hive tech looking pretty unstoppable. Flash had an answer in the 4rax build. You just make marines and kill the Zerg. The control battles were tense, but ranged Flashrines ended up dominating Donglisks and Jaedong's 3rd gas died. This is very bad because you need gas to spam infinite lurkers to defend 4 bases. He got it back up and running and put 2 hatcheries at his mineral only to start outmacroing Flash, but Flash had added barracks and was adding tech while pressuring everywhere with marines. At one point Flash was storming Jaedong's natural and mineral only with marines and his side of the crowd exploded. Then Jaedong scraped some units together and killed both attacking groups, and his side of the crowd exploded. However, Jaedong exploded in the end... as it were. He never got enough lurkers out. You'd think someone with 400+ APM could save some gas by not making mutalisks that get rallied over a control group of marines and die. Similarly, although Flash was going for 4rax (aggressive), he made a bunker (defensive) behind his ling-tight wall. I can't remember how much vision he had so I guess it was a precaution against 2hatch lurker. Nobody's perfect.

Unlike the average PL game, there are some small concessions. Just stuff like kimbap and potato chips. Be warned, their potato chips can be cooked in fish oil. Pictures soon.

Edit: Pictures:
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]


*****
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
August 28 2010 16:42 GMT
#2
Don't forget the extremely early +1 in the final game. I mean, it was absurdly early, he had the e-bay before his second rax.
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
August 28 2010 16:47 GMT
#3
Cool post! Thanks for reporting. This was a great match to see live, you really lucked out.
✌
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5920 Posts
August 28 2010 16:51 GMT
#4
Oh, something I forgot. Normally when you have a cheer that you're doing, you want to do it three times and then dissolve into a fermata where you just scream and bang those things together. Jaedong's fan area wouldn't do this, though. They just tried to repeat a cheer ad infinitum and it would slowly fade into being pathetic. I wasn't impressed by this.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
OpticalShot
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada6330 Posts
August 28 2010 17:02 GMT
#5
Nice looking pictures.
[TLMS] REBOOT
miNix
Profile Joined August 2010
Turkey156 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-28 17:03:43
August 28 2010 17:03 GMT
#6
hi i am flash and i am cool cuz i have ability for 14-cc rax and cheese...

undeserved win , flash go 2 hell...

User was temp banned for this post.
bonjwa
deafhobbit
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States828 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-28 18:41:43
August 28 2010 18:41 GMT
#7
On August 29 2010 02:03 miNix wrote:
hi i am flash and i am cool cuz i have ability for 14-cc rax and cheese...

undeserved win , flash go 2 hell...


Wow, did you even watch the games? Games 1 and 2 flash scouted JD's 12 hatch before throwing down the 14cc, and in game 4 he did the same lead in to the 14cc (depot at nat's choke) but when he saw 9 pool he went rax first. Yeah, he went for a blind 14cc in game 5, but that was a calculated risk, and had JD gone for a 9 pool that game you'd be screaming at how brilliant he is. Instead, flash read him like a book, predicted 12 hatch, and won because JD played the rest of that game poorly.


I cheer for underdogs and Flash
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 28 2010 19:11 GMT
#8
"Then Jaedong scraped some units together and killed both attacking groups, and his side of the crowd exploded. However, Jaedong exploded in the end... as it were. He never got enough lurkers out. You'd think someone with 400+ APM could save some gas by not making mutalisks that get rallied over a control group of marines and die."

So sad... JD really did implode in that game.
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
August 28 2010 19:32 GMT
#9
Similarly, although Flash was going for 4rax (aggressive), he made a bunker (defensive) behind his ling-tight wall. I can't remember how much vision he had so I guess it was a precaution against 2hatch lurker. Nobody's perfect.

At the time, I thought it was a mindgame to make Jaedong think he was powering when really he was preparing to attack.
brood war for life, brood war forever
251
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States1401 Posts
August 28 2010 20:28 GMT
#10
I didn't go to this because I went to the last MSL finals, and I was like... "enh?" haha thanks for sharing your experience.
"If you can chill..........then chill."
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
LiuLi Cup Grand Finals Playoff
LiquipediaDiscussion
Patches Events
23:00
Open cup capped at 5400 MMR
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft549
RuFF_SC2 181
ProTech126
Nina 78
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 8187
Sea 6680
NaDa 41
Icarus 2
Dota 2
monkeys_forever403
NeuroSwarm68
LuMiX1
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox488
Mew2King76
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor146
Other Games
summit1g9820
JimRising 596
C9.Mang0308
ViBE52
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV39
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta234
• Hupsaiya 220
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 11
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift5494
Other Games
• Scarra1020
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6h 41m
RSL Revival
6h 41m
Classic vs TriGGeR
Cure vs Cham
WardiTV Winter Champion…
8h 41m
OSC
9h 11m
BSL
16h 41m
Replay Cast
20h 41m
Replay Cast
1d 5h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 13h
OSC
1d 20h
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 21: Qualifier #1
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #2
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
NationLESS Cup
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.