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I think Terran need nerf, or Toss need buff. PvT is pretty ridiculous right now. Marine, Marauder, Ghost, Viking -Congratulation, you've just countered every possible Protoss unit. It seems like there is almost no Viable compositions in this matchup. Marauder counters EVERY gateway unit pretty hard. Concussive stops zealot charge with kiting but they were at least helpful. They also rape stalkers and sentries. A Bio ball can stim 2 times while fighting an equal cost protoss army (that includes charglots,guardian shields, and stalkers) kill the whole army with few losses and still survive a psi storm entact afterwards (without medevacs). Emp counters immortals, archons, HT, DT, pretty much all gateways units. Stim Marines or viking counter voids. Vikings shut down colossus and it takes about 700 gas to get your first one out, which means your army is that much weaker. Toss is almost never ahead in army during the early game, which means Terran can apply constant pressure and deny you the chance to expo. Your expected to sit there and force field your ramp just so you can stay alive and tech to stuff that is so easily countered while spending 100 gas a pop on sentries.
Meanwhile, the Terran walls in, you can't scout there build but they can scan yours and easily counter anything you make. It seems like Protoss struggle to find viable builds with the narrowest of timings meanwhile almost anything the Terran wants to do can be made viable. They can take early expo's on islands by lifting, turtle with bunkers and engineering upgrades, than salvage them so it's no loss. They can make PF to expo when other races would be unable to defend it. They can mech, drop, nuke, viking land, for harass. Or the most popular 1 base 3 to 5 rax all in bio ball with a starport for there second push to add medevac, viking or raven. Which is GG unless the Terran makes some huge blunder. Supply blocked, no problem your Terran, just drop one in from the sky for free.
Toss has had storm nerfed, immortals nerfed, voids nerfed, cannons nerfed, sentries nerfed, now zealots nerfed.
BTW BLIZZARD: you want to know why proxy gating is so popular... BECAUSE TOSS IS RUNNING OUT OF USABLE STRATEGIES!
Well, Im switching to Terran. Fuck it. Tired of loosing to Terrans who 1 base marine maurader everygame and I just have no answer to it. Tired of loosing to people who have no strategy, no tactics, no scouting (just scans), 1a t micro, I'm tired of watching replays where I have 10 more harvesters than a Terran and he makes a mule and his income is higher than mine, tired of trying to tech to tier 3 only to have it countered by ghost or viking which Terran gets much faster and cheaper than anything I have.
I've experimented with phoenix,voids,storm,colossus, gateway compositions, DT's, Terran can just shut all of this down with tier 1 and a viking or 2. Such a joke.
I was certain marauders would get a nerf. But instead they're nerfing zealots of all things. Ronald Reagan once said "Vote with your Feet" and that's what I'm going to do. I'm not going to whine anymore about Terran is op. I'm just going to switch to Terran. I would like to ask all of you to do the same. Let's make Starcraft 2 a single matchup TvT. Maybe that will send a message to Blizzard that they'll listen too.
So If your with me and going to switch to Terran to demonstrate you dissatisfaction with balance, please say so in the comments.
 
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So that is why Terrans hate TvT..
(this is a blog post I can rant right?)
I'm not switching to Terran though, I might just stop playing.
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Protoss players have a humble image to uphold! Don't become a Zerg player. 
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im on tempoary sc2 leave. awaiting patches atm o.o
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only thing i dont like are ghosts and banshees.
my answer: HTs in a prism. but its easy to snipe with vikings, still better than getting them emp'd.
the ghost is the most dangerouse unit to protoss, yet they have cloak
the HT is (probably) the most dangerouse unit to T and it is sooo slow and has inferior range (and is not cloaked btw :D )
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You are whiney as fuck. You cant always pick the better strategy and win. Sometimes you just have to outplay/maneuver/think your opponent.... Improve your macro, hide tech, come up with ways to scout what they are doing and plan accordingly. You have a lot of nerve to play protoss and complain about this shit. Try playing zerg for the past 2 weeks...
Storm as it stands is incredibly powerful. with the energy upgrade YOU CAN WARP TEMPLARS ANYWHERE ON THE BATTLEFIELD AND INSTANTLY BE ABLE TO STORM.... Thats a pretty sweet deal. Despite what you say storm rapes "bio balls" (unless its pure marauder, in which case you would need sentries/ff/zealots/immortals as well. and to have a 50 energy feedback to snipe at long range their ghosts/medivacs/thors/ravens/banshees is a pretty sweet deal. There are plenty of options. It comes down to you seeing what the terran is doing and reacting in a manner that puts you ahead.
I know the phrase "l2p" is played out as fuck, but it really applies here.
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Storm isn't nearly as good as you think it is. It rapes vs zerg but is a waste vs terran. A Terran can literally kill your whole army, stim 2 times, and take a direct hit from storm and take minimal losses. The gas it take to FF your ramp to stay alive and the huge gas cost for storm, templars, and amulet means you have an even weaker army that they roll that much easier if your not spending your gas pumping gateways units. Emp doesn't even have to be researched and it counters HT and your whole gateway army. I've tried hiding tech, it doesn't matter. Whatever you hide is so quickly and easily countered it becomes a liability to not have it in your base.
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On August 28 2010 18:42 Ry-Masta-T wrote:
You are whiney as fuck. You cant always pick the better strategy and win. Sometimes you just have to outplay/maneuver/think your opponent.... Improve your macro, hide tech, come up with ways to scout what they are doing and plan accordingly. You have a lot of nerve to play protoss and complain about this shit. Try playing zerg for the past 2 weeks...
Storm as it stands is incredibly powerful. with the energy upgrade YOU CAN WARP TEMPLARS ANYWHERE ON THE BATTLEFIELD AND INSTANTLY BE ABLE TO STORM.... Thats a pretty sweet deal. Despite what you say storm rapes "bio balls" (unless its pure marauder, in which case you would need sentries/ff/zealots/immortals as well. and to have a 50 energy feedback to snipe at long range their ghosts/medivacs/thors/ravens/banshees is a pretty sweet deal. There are plenty of options. It comes down to you seeing what the terran is doing and reacting in a manner that puts you ahead.
I know the phrase "l2p" is played out as fuck, but it really applies here.
Kinda funny to say that, because I think what the OP is applying here is early-mid game with a fast ghost push. I don't think there's anything that stands in the Protoss arsenal to what your suggesting here. I don't even think you took into conisderation how much of a disadvantage Protoss are because we have to RESEARCH to get instant storms. Research isn't free, and it takes time. I don't think it stands anywhere within the 10-15minute mark where a Terran has taken his 2nd and built Ghosts that a Protoss can do to counter unless he's researched storm, (even then, how much energy do they have?) to fight a decent sized MMG ball.
Sorry to break your bubble, but not everyone can agree to your unrealistic timings without actually having fought a competent Terran who abuses the time it takes for Protoss to research storm/starting energy upgrade.
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Netherlands19137 Posts
On August 28 2010 18:42 Ry-Masta-T wrote:
You are whiney as fuck. You cant always pick the better strategy and win. Sometimes you just have to outplay/maneuver/think your opponent.... Improve your macro, hide tech, come up with ways to scout what they are doing and plan accordingly. You have a lot of nerve to play protoss and complain about this shit. Try playing zerg for the past 2 weeks...
Storm as it stands is incredibly powerful. with the energy upgrade YOU CAN WARP TEMPLARS ANYWHERE ON THE BATTLEFIELD AND INSTANTLY BE ABLE TO STORM.... Thats a pretty sweet deal. Despite what you say storm rapes "bio balls" (unless its pure marauder, in which case you would need sentries/ff/zealots/immortals as well. and to have a 50 energy feedback to snipe at long range their ghosts/medivacs/thors/ravens/banshees is a pretty sweet deal. There are plenty of options. It comes down to you seeing what the terran is doing and reacting in a manner that puts you ahead.
I know the phrase "l2p" is played out as fuck, but it really applies here.
Totally what this guy said, TvP is actually favoured for Protoss in any league up to the pros. I seriously suggest you take this guys suggested course of action and L2P.
Thanks.
Garbage blog.
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It sounds like you're talking about one base vs one base which may be your problem right there. but as toss you can chrono a ton of probes early, so much so that you can offset the effects of mules with your sheer worker count. With the extra minerals you can put up your expansion if you see him doing something tech-y.
If you're just trying to survive a mid game 3-4 rax MM (maybe ghost) push, you can do it with just warpgate units (although obviously immortals are a godsend vs marauder heavy style, collossi can be very strong if you can find the cash to work them in), by spreading your troops well (to minimize the effects of EMP), and if need be, a few forcefields on your ramp to get one or 2 more production cycles out before you engage. forcefield is really fucking good and you can like build a wall of FFs behind his army while engaging which allows a) you to keep him from stim kiting, and b) lets your zealots get in close are start doing some ripgut cannibal shit on those marauders.
Protoss isnt underpowered. At a high level of play, there are plenty of strong protosses with many different styles of play (mass gateways, colloxen, phoenix/void ray openings etc). There's no shortage of options with protoss. Instead of figuring out a strategy you find effective vs terran (I mean of course this is very important, but there isnt going to be "a build" that solves all your problems) try to figure out ways to use your units that increase their effectiveness on the battlefield. Try to flank the terran army from 2 sides as he attacks so he has very little room to scoot around and kite, obviously this requires really good scouting and the foresight to intercept his army on the way to your base (not once he's barking up your ramp as is probably the more lazy "oh shit i hope when i attack move my army it kills his" philosophy that you might be accustomed to).
in my opinion, more important than your strategy are the tactics you employ with that strategy. Now I'm not really a protoss player, but there are a wealth of very talented protoss players who stream games all the time. Watch these guys. They know what they are doing. Check out their cool moves, their army compositions, and how they deal with the adversities that you not-so-elegantly laid out in the OP.
and wtf did you even read the patch notes? It was like terran nerfs across the board... Why are you complaing about zealot build time? You should be going fast stalker vs terran anyways.
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I'm a T player...but I still just LOVE to play Protoss, they have amazing units and abilities to use and abuse, and have all the worlds opportunities to warp units in anywhere, proxy, void ray, storm, BLINK!, charon boost zealots out before the T has 2 marines out.
Really you just need to understand how to play the race better, same as with zergs complaining, if you expect to win against a T in a straight up 1a macro fight, chances are you won't, abuse your races specialty and stealthy strategies, on Diamond level, that's what good players do.
The maps have a large influence as well right now, they all have ramps for one.
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Stay as toss, mate  And go storm!
Stoooorm, stoooooorm...
They just need to fix the feedback range .. Gotta be longer than EMP range.
I'm top 500ish player in europe, and storm works very well vs. terran. With the tank nerf coming, I'll be enjoying slaughtering those bastards some more .
In the early game you feel pushed back in your base, but once storm is out, with the amulet - you are pushing back, and he can't come towards you =). Remember to feedback the ghosts.
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People who act like PvT isn't massively Terran favored early/midgame simply don't know what the hell they are talking about.
If you expand, and they went 3rax MMG, you die. You HAVE to one base it against Terran. You spam alot of Gateways and Tech, tons more than the Terran has to, just to stop his push. And then he still gets his expo faster. Or the Terran can just FE himself, and kill you if you try to counter expand (since beacause of Mules, he will still be able to pump a billion Marines to kill any fast expand you take). Plus you can't even really scout a Terran who walls properly, forcing you into a Robotics Build for Obs, when you might want to go Templar because of how great you think Storm is. Ghosts come earlier in the game than Templar, much less storm, and have an effective range of 12, to Feedback's 9 range.
PvT is basically hoping that the Terran doesn't kill you 9 minutes into the game, and then after that you get a balanced MU.
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Blizzard is nerfing tanks so expect the terran mechguys switching to bio (including me =().
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Terran is ridiculous early game, agreed. However, with FF and chrono boost, I've always been able to get out a decent army of zealot/templar/sentry. Just spread out your templar and you'll have at least 1 or 2 storms vs EMP. Don't let marauder/marine kite your zealots forever by force fielding their units.
Something I do all the time early game is hotkey my main army/sentries to 1 and put my templar on 3 and 4 (to minimize clumping)
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Ry Masta T and Nyovne got the idea of it.
When P decides to build an army and a-move and t-click and call it micro, they're doing it wrong.
Protoss gets to pick their aggression and expand off of it, they have chronoboost and can do wahtever they want to the terrain with forcefields.
Won't matter much because with this tank nerf nobody will use siege mode now. Like Masta T said, if you seriously think this is the case, l2p.
PS: top 3 at MLG are all protoss? Protoss's beating Terran's all tournament long? Nah, obviously at high level play Terran is sitll favored huh.
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I just want Vikings to go down to 8(+6 armored). That way, phoenixes can counter them and Protoss can actually use tier 3 units other than HTs...
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EPT
