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I was 17-7 450 points platinium when i started to play some ladder tonight. First guy i face was #1 on his div, 1000 pts diamond and terran. I got completly destroyed and even if the guy was better than me PvT is so broken that it was sad .
Then i face some more players between 600 and 850, got bashed pretty hard and went 1-8 ( had to play 5 terrans  )
I was kinda pissed but i was like " ok no big deal 'i'm favoured, the system try to find opponents to my level, i should get easier players soon".
So after this harsh run i was 18-15 329 pts diamond. I start another game, i see Favoured on the loading screen and i'm like "cool, a fair match". I lose to a ridiculous 8 pool ling into fast roach into mass hydra.
So after getting stomped i look at his stats and i see:
![[image loading]](http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/6675/favouredlol.th.png)
( don't understand how the guy got so many units whereas his first attack with lings was a failure but w/e he was probably just BETTER with his 773 pts )
But the real question is why i'm facing him and why i'm "Favoured" ? LOL
-15pts.
I'm convinced that PvT is utterly broken, Blizzard ladder is a complete mess and i have no confidence in any mu except pvp because a mirror can't be imbalanced. The ladder is so fucking stupid it makes me cringe.
Moreover I would like to rant about the ridiculous dmg of the banshees even if no one cares. If only we had a real attack move for air units Blizzard could nerf the dmg of the banshee to force the Terran player to micro. But no Blizzard is stupid and those fucking banshees will 2 shot my probes and kill my stalkers in 1v1.
Do you remember broodwar ? The two air units who could 2 shots a probe were guards and BCS. Fucking slow ass T3 units without cloak.
Oh and fucking T2 air units couldn't beat T1/1.5 protoss ground. One goon > one muta. One Goon > wraith.
Now you have to face some ridiculous one base terrans with their banshees / rines + one raven.
I honestly cannot understand how you can beat this kind of mix sigh.
TL:DR Terran is the new protoss^10 and the the ladder system is so fucking retarded it makes me cringe.
Probably 1/5 but eh i think that protoss players will understand.
 
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Protoss needs dem Arbiters
Zerg needs dem Lurkers or some othe rAoE besides Fungal Growth
Terran is ...
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CryMeAReaver.
lol so fitting. =(
edit: My only issue with the ladder is no global ranking. Matchmaking seems fine to me.
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I have no sympathy for Protoss cause of those goddamn void ray rushes, and the goddamn DT drops in Brood War. SEE WHAT IT FEELS LIKE? >:D
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The ladder system doesn't go by points. Or I don't think it does.
That is how they got their top 200, it is by some secret formula. As well as how laddering goes.
I've been favored against people with more points than me plenty of times. It is really odd and gay.
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Cheer up! The reason the ladder is matching you up against players with more points is because Blizzard knows you're good and doesn't want you to play against boring, easy to beat opponents. 
+ Show Spoiler +Gotta love that bright side
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On August 27 2010 10:15 SCC-Faust wrote:
The ladder system doesn't go by points. Or I don't think it does.
That is how they got their top 200, it is by some secret formula. As well as how laddering goes.
I've been favored against people with more points than me plenty of times. It is really odd and gay.
I feel that they need to do away with the whole 'favored' system, or correct it. I don't even pay any attention to it anymore, simply because it's so wrong. I've played against players who are obviously complete garbage and yet are still favored against me.
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PvT isn't broken, it's quite close to balanced actually.
EDIT: Also, spending less time whining about things and more time trying to figure out how to beat it would probably serve your gaming experience in a way better way. Just sayin'.
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Calgary25980 Posts
On the other hand I am having a great time and think this game is pretty fair and fun.
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On August 27 2010 10:17 gillon wrote:
PvT isn't broken, it's quite close to balanced actually.
EDIT: Also, spending less time whining about things and more time trying to figure out how to beat it would probably serve your gaming experience in a way better way. Just sayin'.
I think i have figured it, i will play terran until next patch.
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On August 27 2010 10:24 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 10:17 gillon wrote:
PvT isn't broken, it's quite close to balanced actually.
EDIT: Also, spending less time whining about things and more time trying to figure out how to beat it would probably serve your gaming experience in a way better way. Just sayin'. I think i have figured it, i will play terran until next patch.
You do that, and then come back here and tell me if the grass indeed is greener on the other side.
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I'm more confident in PvZ than in PvT even if i have some troubles vs those "new" builds.
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it's not extremely broken, just protoss has to play very very well and they HAVE to get to t3
it's basically just way easier for terran than for protoss but if you can play well enough it becomes less and less of an issue
but yeah.. i do think banshees are kind of too good, and marauders are kind of too good
terran can actually make any unit composition in tvp and it will be just fine as long as it's before protoss has t3
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I do actually find the match making system to be pretty retarded. I just started laddering and I keep getting put up against like 600-800 rank diamond players when I have played 20 games and am like a 300~ platinum. I don't see how its matching us up.
As far as Pv? balance goes. I haven't played much PvZ but I hear its fair and that seems like a fair statement imo. Once I stop letting ling runby's kick my ass I should be good.
I find PvT to actually be my best match up. You just have to scout well and make sure you see what kind of push hes doing. Whether its tank/rine or hard marauder. I find macro and flanking in PvT to be pretty simple but I won't lie, a 3 rax Marauder push scares the shit out of me. It seems near impossible to actually hold off. I am left to assume a 1gate robo build is a requirement to take it out, however I feel you would still be far behind because the T can expo and maintain a powerful aggressive force with that.
Just to let you know, I generally use a zealot/immortal force while mixing in sentry/HT depending on the game point in order to counter the marines. After I get a good macro advantage I switch into VR and rape them. VR are the new carrier!
PvP I am forced to two builds that I believe to be the best in a general sense of the term. I don't find blink to be all that useful but you need a stalker centric opening~midgame or you get crushed by a lot of things. A hard immortal rush while raping a lot of shit gets stomped by a hard stalker/phoenix build. I am leaning towards 3gate robo or 2gate phoenix builds. One is more powerhouse expo macro (the immortal build) while phoenix build is more focused on harassing while macroing and taking a later expo.
I find blink to be inferior for harassing especially when you have the Phoenix alternative and it really adds no raw power to your army, so I tend to shrug blink off most of the time. Plus blink tech tends to not really go anywhere after that, except maybe templar but there are so many more advantages to robo tech where its not even worth it.
On that note, I was doing fine in the ladder until I got dropped 3 games in a row yesterday and added 3 free losses to my beautiful record.
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On August 27 2010 10:43 travis wrote:
it's not extremely broken, just protoss has to play very very well and they HAVE to get to t3
it's basically just way easier for terran than for protoss but if you can play well enough it becomes less and less of an issue
but yeah.. i do think banshees are kind of too good, and marauders are kind of too good
terran can actually make any unit composition in tvp and it will be just fine as long as it's before protoss has t3
whoa. Happy birthday dude!
On topic, I personally don't find the laddering too bad.
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The ladder is still in the early stages, you have to wait before everyone get to where they should be. The whole favored thing is simply because of the hidden rank. Point and league are just here to please the more casuals players or the ones that play a lot. It's meaningless inbetwen (assuming they didn't play more than like 100+ games)
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Calgary25980 Posts
On August 27 2010 10:32 Subversion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 10:17 Chill wrote:
On the other hand I am having a great time and think this game is pretty fair and fun. "Chill - Not A Zerg Player."
Well, I play random but Zerg is my best.
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United States12235 Posts
On August 27 2010 10:45 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I do actually find the match making system to be pretty retarded. I just started laddering and I keep getting put up against like 600-800 rank diamond players when I have played 20 games and am like a 300~ platinum. I don't see how its matching us up.
It's because you had very few games played and a very high win ratio (likely brought about by a long win streak).
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United States24676 Posts
The favored thing isn't because of hidden rank necessarily. Sometimes it says my opponent is favored and my opponent says I was favored... been a problem since beta.
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Solution, play brood war. Chill bro you had a bad run, if blizzard listened to ragers like you than SC2 ladder would be 2x as bad as it already is. I mean you can be 50% overall and get into plat eventually.
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On August 27 2010 11:05 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 10:45 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I do actually find the match making system to be pretty retarded. I just started laddering and I keep getting put up against like 600-800 rank diamond players when I have played 20 games and am like a 300~ platinum. I don't see how its matching us up. It's because you had very few games played and a very high win ratio (likely brought about by a long win streak).
Well I kind of like that, but at the same time it doesn't make sense. I like playing the better players but its attempting to match players by skill not rank and while I get the fun purposes behind it I don't really see how I am climbing the proverbial ladder. Its not like ICCup sees you go 10-0 through D rank and says "alright just for kicks throw him vs an A-" Its really annoyingly erratic sometimes. Although I do like playing people on my level which makes it good, but I honestly haven't even played a platinum level player yet.
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Yeah, them bancheese are OP. What are they some smaller bc? Aren't kinda supposed to be the new wraith?
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Update:
I have played two more games and for the first time no player was favoured. I guess that the system have found my "level". Guys were 650 and 550pts.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
i can't find a crying smiley face to post
you are terrible at sc2 and should not complain about balance. are you not aware of how many protoss players wouldnt lose to the people you've been losing to?
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Valhalla18444 Posts
im gonna say this to everyone until someone understands!
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I was mostly ranting about the ladder system. But since i didn't want to make another post i had to talk about PvT too.
Anyway i think that the incoming tourneys and patches will tell us a lot of things hehe.
I hope that the protoss players will fare better than at IEM :O
P-S: I'M BAD I GET IT BUT I HAVE NEVER SAID I'M GOOD ANYWAY.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
the point is, i GUARANTEE you could post a replay and I could point out a ton of reasons why you lost that have NOTHING to do with game balance. this is true for basically every single SC2 player in existence right now. all a blog like this accomplishes is putting your short-sightedness, lack of confidence in your abilities, and shallow understanding of how these games work on display. it gives me a headache.
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You gotta admit though, Banshees are essentially flying DT's with range and faster attack speed.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On August 27 2010 12:00 sluggaslamoo wrote:
You gotta admit though, Banshees are essentially flying DT's with range and faster attack speed.
banshees are strong, but they're high on the tech tree and they're expensive. if i play against someone like Huk, you know how many kills my banshee will get? not very many, because Huk is a shitload better than me and he knows how to play. the only difference between this blog and the blog I could make about how useless banshees are because i can't kill Huk with them is that these are far more numerous because people are stupid
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On August 27 2010 12:04 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 12:00 sluggaslamoo wrote:
You gotta admit though, Banshees are essentially flying DT's with range and faster attack speed. banshees are strong, but they're high on the tech tree and they're expensive. if i play against someone like Huk, you know how many kills my banshee will get? not very many, because Huk is a shitload better than me and he knows how to play. the only difference between this blog and the blog I could make about how useless banshees are because i can't kill Huk with them is that these are far more numerous because people are stupid
lol. It is funny how everyone complains about terran yet I have a friend who's never played competitive BW, is a 60 apm player, and is now higher than me on ladder doing only 3 builds, 1 per matchup. I just told him what to do and he wins 90% of his games vs terran.
Protoss is much stronger than terran if you do builds that don't completely suck.
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I agree with FakeSteve in that PvT isn't as imbalanced as Boblion seems to paint it. For me, it just seems that there is no way Protoss can take the initiative early game because of how effective the marauder/marine force is at T1 and marauder/medivac/hellion/banshee mobility is at T2. A Terran that truly uses all of the mobility he is granted in the game is insanely frustrating to play against :/
It just seems like Terran dictates most of the game. Though there are definitely exceptions to the rule like Void Rays.
As far as balance goes, it is probably the best mu in terms of balance? Maybe PvZ is better I dunno
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On August 27 2010 11:56 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
the point is, i GUARANTEE you could post a replay and I could point out a ton of reasons why you lost that have NOTHING to do with game balance. this is true for basically every single SC2 player in existence right now. all a blog like this accomplishes is putting your short-sightedness, lack of confidence in your abilities, and shallow understanding of how these games work on display. it gives me a headache.
Balance can vary between different levels of play though. You know, like in brood war where protoss was really dominant in the lower/mid brackets of iccup whereas in proleague terran and zerg generally had somewhat of an edge.
I don't really know shit about sc2 balance, but I'm just saying..
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banshees are the worst unit in the game. You could do some cute things with wraiths with some heavy micro, but now the DPS is jacked up, and I don't have tier 1(.5) anti air (aside from queens) and my overlords aren't detectors anymore. Splendid!
And yeah I bet the game is a lot more balanced than people think but it sure isn't fun. I've been playing more broodwar lately Or should that be
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On August 27 2010 12:10 Floophead_III wrote:
lol. It is funny how everyone complains about terran yet I have a friend who's never played competitive BW, is a 60 apm player, and is now higher than me on ladder doing only 3 builds, 1 per matchup. I just told him what to do and he wins 90% of his games vs terran.
Protoss is much stronger than terran if you do builds that don't completely suck.
Hey feel free to post some replays i will take a look. But i'm not interested if it is below 600 diamond.
I'm curious to see how he deals with rines and banshees. Especially if he has only one build and 60 apm :p
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Yeah I hate the way the ladder moves you up, I've played 20 games and I'm getting matched against people that have played 300+ games that lead their diamond division.
It wouldn't be a big deal, but it doesn't really give me room to experiment with builds, etc.. I was kind of expecting a chance to play against people that have played the same amount as me for a bit.
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Don't even worry about the favor thing. Its so pointless it really doesn't matter. Just play the game.
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On August 27 2010 11:56 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
the point is, i GUARANTEE you could post a replay and I could point out a ton of reasons why you lost that have NOTHING to do with game balance. this is true for basically every single SC2 player in existence right now. all a blog like this accomplishes is putting your short-sightedness, lack of confidence in your abilities, and shallow understanding of how these games work on display. it gives me a headache.
Your logic is kind of inconsistent, though... Yes, I'm sure you could find plenty of holes in this guy's game. But there's nothing that suggests you couldn't find just as many and just as severe mistakes in his opponent's play, either. It's not fair if both players are equally bad but one guy wins. Ofc if one guy was more skilled, he's more likely to win. But you're jumping to conclusions here. I'm pretty damn sure the game isn't balanced yet, if only because any RTS game requires a good long while for the actual imbalances to become apparent.
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Shutup Chill these forums are for complaining about what you struggle with, they are not for saying something nice about the game we all spend hours upon hours playing! >
+ Show Spoiler +
I think you're lucky as I would love to play some top diamond players for some sweet sweet training!
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wouldnt it be interesting if each game of the trilogy tilts the balance towards the respective race of the game? So in the first game T is slightly OP, second game Z becomes slightly OP, and in the end P becomes OP. And then after that they fully balance the game.
Kinda cool and kinda shitty at the same time as it makes me not want to start playing till all three games are finished and all the balancing is done. Plus the 180 dollars.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On August 27 2010 15:09 Inori wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 11:56 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
the point is, i GUARANTEE you could post a replay and I could point out a ton of reasons why you lost that have NOTHING to do with game balance. this is true for basically every single SC2 player in existence right now. all a blog like this accomplishes is putting your short-sightedness, lack of confidence in your abilities, and shallow understanding of how these games work on display. it gives me a headache. Your and every other person-that-thinks-he's-smart-with-his-comment-but-in-reality-is-not logic is flawed becuase same could be done for terran in any game. And I GUARANTEE you that in a lot of times a Protoss player will make less mistakes and his BO will be more polished but he will still lose. Yes, everyone sucks and makes mistakes atm, this includes Terrans. The issue here is that equally skilled Protoss and Terrans are worlds apart in the ladder rankings due to how much easier mode it is for the other. 700 raiting Protoss, by skill, is around 900-1k Terran.
i assure you i have played several games in the diamonds league
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On August 27 2010 16:55 Inori wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 16:48 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On August 27 2010 15:09 Inori wrote:On August 27 2010 11:56 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
the point is, i GUARANTEE you could post a replay and I could point out a ton of reasons why you lost that have NOTHING to do with game balance. this is true for basically every single SC2 player in existence right now. all a blog like this accomplishes is putting your short-sightedness, lack of confidence in your abilities, and shallow understanding of how these games work on display. it gives me a headache. Your and every other person-that-thinks-he's-smart-with-his-comment-but-in-reality-is-not logic is flawed becuase same could be done for terran in any game. And I GUARANTEE you that in a lot of times a Protoss player will make less mistakes and his BO will be more polished but he will still lose. Yes, everyone sucks and makes mistakes atm, this includes Terrans. The issue here is that equally skilled Protoss and Terrans are worlds apart in the ladder rankings due to how much easier mode it is for the other. 700 raiting Protoss, by skill, is around 900-1k Terran. i assure you i have played several games in the diamonds league err, I didn't even doubt that. Doesn't really change my point I think?
Let me give some insight here, Fakesteve can be one of the less skilled players (no offense) but his understanding of the game is equal if not exceeding Day9's
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I feel the same way, got into Diamond league and started getting destroyed =(. As a Zerg player, I feel your pain ...
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More Blizzard lulz
![[image loading]](http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3050/lolblizz.th.png)
72-8
605 pts. o,o
edit: When i think about it now i guess that this guy might have played his full 50 games of training league so i should not blame Blizzard without more info ...
22-8
605pts seems legit.
Otherwise the system is completly broken.
edit: people told me that training games aren't recorded so i blame Blizzard.
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man I read fakesteve's posts and i was like "TRUTH."
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United States4126 Posts
From my experience, when you start off in platinum the ladder matches you with diamond players from the beginning in case you belong there. It starts matching you with lower leveled players once you start losing matches it think you should win.
And when I looked up XlorD on sc2ranks I came up with this http://sc2ranks.com/team/180767
Strange indeed.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img26.imageshack.us/i/favouredlol.png/)
![[image loading]](http://img227.imageshack.us/i/lolblizz.png/)
