I can KNOW what the oponnents is doing and still i get fucking RAPED.
I switching to terran, FUCK blizzard. Whats the poings of surrounding and delaying is army like an idiot when he just can 1ta2ta and GG. He can Banshee he can Helion my ass off.
The worst thing? Theres no COST TO ANY OF THE FUCKING BUILDS a T tries.
When Boxer tried to dropship rush and failed, he was BEHIND. When a Terran in SC2 does a medivac drop and fails, no biggie ill just make some banshees. Oh he has 20 mutas, no biggie ill just make 2 thors.
Its so tiring every matchup its a PAINFUL uphill battle. And the worst thing is, when im playing some idiot thats just got his sc2 copy I STILL HAVE TO DEFEND till i have something like 10 ultras to "try" and run over him.
Remember where Zerglings gave fear to an opponent? Now the SUCK, they SUCK BALLS. I still get adrenal upgrade everygame just for the lulz, not that it changes anything because they still get MELTED before they can attack but i do it so i dont feel like savior.
Some game ago the protoss was doing a 3 gate push after a FAILED, yes, FAILED 2 gate. I knew it was coming so i tried to build some hydras, HAD TO WAIT LIKE 2 HOURS TO GET HYDRA TECH. So while i wait i decided to build SOME POWERFUL STATIC DEFENSE TO FEND OFF THE ATTACK.
My hatchery was dead and still the spine crawler hand finished.
Im going Terran, fuck this. Its easier to just learn a new race than feel like im playing with gloves.
Talking about gloves, playing zerg its like playing football with a team full of goalies.
As a side note, if you look at the current poll, out of everyone who changed their race from BW to SC2, the race with the biggest numbers of people switching to it is Terran.
On August 17 2010 08:05 Empyrean wrote: As a side note, if you look at the current poll, out of everyone who changed their race from BW to SC2, the race with the biggest numbers of people switching to it is Terran.
(myself included)
Im sure when Heart of Swarm comes around, there will be more zerg players
I'm also considering switching. Terran units hard counter anything the Zerg has and since their tech tree is just a straight path they can just pump out any units they want... (yes, Zerg has versatility, but it doesn't matter when terran can own T3 units with SCVs...) I think I'll just stay off ladder for a while under Blizzard does something... OH WAIT.
oh well...at least idra has enough self-respect to stay his own race...if this were protoss getting massacred atm i wouldnt even consider switching ^^ imo the mu is probably hugely broken atm BUT blizzard will *eventually* patch it out (i think) with either a buff to zerg or a nerf to terran ^^
As some has said before me in other topics. If it were HARD it would be that much of a problem. ZvT in BW was has hard as it can get (for both sides depending the skills). Its just that, and i dont pretend to sound homophobic with this...
Playing Zerg feel like getting fucked up from behind SO DEEP, and FOR SO LONG, that you just must stand there, feeling the humping, trying to last long enough so that you can shamefully look back and say ¿You tired? and then try to take some ultras from where your dignity once was and try to stay alive and sane for another map.
Leaving the balance issues aside(THERE ARE), the dynamic of the MU is, to say the least, hurtful
@OP Have you ever played Terran in SC1? It was all about timing and finding windows to attack. You can't expect to be totally even every second of the game and blaming everything imbalance if you have to defend during the game. Just because you're playing Zerg doesn't mean you can play Zerg SC1 style -20 mutas would just as easily die to Science Vessels and Zerglings melt from M&M anyway.
On August 17 2010 08:05 Empyrean wrote: As a side note, if you look at the current poll, out of everyone who changed their race from BW to SC2, the race with the biggest numbers of people switching to it is Terran.
(myself included)
I'm the lowest, BW terran to SC2 zerg
But I secretly always wanted to be a zerg in BW, where terran always seemed like a big economic behemoth, zerg was like an art form
Zerg is by far the most challenging to play now due to the nonstop nerfs in beta. I still don't understand why they increased the cost of overlord speed. To this day I can't figure that out.. I mean was it seriously OP?
On August 17 2010 08:29 GreatFall wrote: Zerg is by far the most challenging to play now due to the nonstop nerfs in beta. I still don't understand why they increased the cost of overlord speed. To this day I can't figure that out.. I mean was it seriously OP?
On August 17 2010 08:27 Loser777 wrote: @OP Have you ever played Terran in SC1? It was all about timing and finding windows to attack. You can't expect to be totally even every second of the game and blaming everything imbalance if you have to defend during the game. Just because you're playing Zerg doesn't mean you can play Zerg SC1 style -20 mutas would just as easily die to Science Vessels and Zerglings melt from M&M anyway.
Terran in SC1 is more like ... defend all the gay shit that the other races can throw at you until you finally manage to win.
On August 17 2010 08:27 Loser777 wrote: @OP Have you ever played Terran in SC1? It was all about timing and finding windows to attack. You can't expect to be totally even every second of the game and blaming everything imbalance if you have to defend during the game. Just because you're playing Zerg doesn't mean you can play Zerg SC1 style -20 mutas would just as easily die to Science Vessels and Zerglings melt from M&M anyway.
Terran in SC1 is more like ... defend all the gay shit that the other races can throw at you until you finally manage to win.
On August 17 2010 08:27 Loser777 wrote: @OP Have you ever played Terran in SC1? It was all about timing and finding windows to attack. You can't expect to be totally even every second of the game and blaming everything imbalance if you have to defend during the game. Just because you're playing Zerg doesn't mean you can play Zerg SC1 style -20 mutas would just as easily die to Science Vessels and Zerglings melt from M&M anyway.
Terran in SC1 is more like ... defend all the gay shit that the other races can throw at you until you finally manage to win.
Yeah it sucks that Terran has a gazillion equally powerful moves they can make early game, all of which can be got off of THREE tech buildings. Each is equally devastating but requires a different counter. Sometimes you're counter won't even be enough
Mehh, I know that Zerg looks real shitty and Terran looks very tempting right now, but imo, i feel that Zerg is one of those harder races to master, and it will definitely pay off if you stick to Zerg and and keep trying. Besides, once the long-awaited balance patch comes, I'm sure thigns will seem much better =)
On August 17 2010 08:27 Loser777 wrote: @OP Have you ever played Terran in SC1? It was all about timing and finding windows to attack. You can't expect to be totally even every second of the game and blaming everything imbalance if you have to defend during the game. Just because you're playing Zerg doesn't mean you can play Zerg SC1 style -20 mutas would just as easily die to Science Vessels and Zerglings melt from M&M anyway.
Terran in SC1 is more like ... defend all the gay shit that the other races can throw at you until you finally manage to win.
It was uphill every game imo
That is definitely not how TvZ is like lol
If your referring to my post, I was just throwing some examples out -obviously you don't have hard counters like that in SC1. I do maintain that SC1 TvZ for Terran is a very defensive game if you play the standard 1 rax FE.
no way man. stay zerg. there will be a patch that will come eventually that will help us out. and besides its not really that bad. but id say you need a good 30 apm advantage over your opponent if you are zerg.
On August 17 2010 08:27 Loser777 wrote: @OP Have you ever played Terran in SC1? It was all about timing and finding windows to attack. You can't expect to be totally even every second of the game and blaming everything imbalance if you have to defend during the game. Just because you're playing Zerg doesn't mean you can play Zerg SC1 style -20 mutas would just as easily die to Science Vessels and Zerglings melt from M&M anyway.
Terran in SC1 is more like ... defend all the gay shit that the other races can throw at you until you finally manage to win.
It was uphill every game imo
That is definitely not how TvZ is like lol
If your referring to my post, I was just throwing some examples out -obviously you don't have hard counters like that in SC1. I do maintain that SC1 TvZ for Terran is a very defensive game if you play the standard 1 rax FE.
Times when TvZ is defensive: During Mutalisk Harass (Kind of, there's usually a roaming group around the map as well) Late game mech transition Times when TvZ is offensive: Everything else.
Don't side with the Terran scum! Be a man and take all the Marauders/Reapers/Hellions/Banshees he tries to shove up your ass. Because he'll be hurting much more when you start shoving ULTRALISKS up his.
Does anyone know if Blizz have said anything about their plans with patches? I don't necessarily mean the Z issue alone, just what their general policy with patches would be after release. I know we can't expect weekly changes like the beta, but surely they can't wait forever? (I have a horrible feeling it will be)
As for the ZvT thing, I'm a terran player. And even I agree, there's been some games I've won where I just shouldn't have. The guy did everything right and I still ended up winning. Felt kinda bad
On August 17 2010 08:05 Empyrean wrote: As a side note, if you look at the current poll, out of everyone who changed their race from BW to SC2, the race with the biggest numbers of people switching to it is Terran.
(myself included)
You assume people did it because of the perception of an imbalance in favor of terran. I switched from Z in BW to T in SC2 because when the game was first previewed, I thought reapers looked cool and I always wanted to play Terran since early BW days.
I played zerg BW. I played random through most of the beta, just intending to learn as much as possible and play zerg in retail. But, i found zerg is too weak. I switched to 75% random and 25% zerg in beta to 100% random. I can't bring myself to play ezpz terran cause it feels so much like cheating, but you just cannot get as far playing zerg.
The interesting thing is that I think zerg easily has the most potential for success in the way this game is made. They're pretty simple theory wise, but if you get the mechanics down I think you can have massive success. Do I think they need some help? Yeah, a lot of help - no.. not really.
I hate ZvT so much right now. Wall offs limit scouting beyond the beginning. No way to know if hellions/reapers are coming, so I put in a little ground D. No way to know if air is coming, so a little later a little air D. This is working at low levels because everyone is going reapers or banshees, hopefully investing too much into it and failing. But I do that against anyone with a little skill and they don't go for the rush I am super behind in econ and tech.
I hate the games where I deflect hellions then banshees then get run over anyway because the T could expand while I was dealing with harass. I can't do it back to him. Takes me longer to get air, and longer to get anti-air.
On August 17 2010 10:39 MamiyaOtaru wrote: my post in a nutshell: QQ but here goes,
I hate ZvT so much right now. Wall offs limit scouting beyond the beginning. No way to know if hellions/reapers are coming, so I put in a little ground D. No way to know if air is coming, so a little later a little air D. This is working at low levels because everyone is going reapers or banshees, hopefully investing too much into it and failing. But I do that against anyone with a little skill and they don't go for the rush I am super behind in econ and tech.
I hate the games where I deflect hellions then banshees then get run over anyway because the T could expand while I was dealing with harass. I can't do it back to him. Takes me longer to get air, and longer to get anti-air.
You can easily tell if they're going reapers, look for early tech lab. If you don't see one, look for factory or reactor. Send a drone scout, and sac an overlord later. Saccing overlords are done all the time in broodwar.
Expanding while harrassing is a basic thing that every competitive broodwar player learns. You just have to stand strong and avoid crumbling under the pressure, and push when he's weakest.
Harrassing takes a lot of resources - Your "army" will be bigger and better than his as long as you keep yourself together.
Idk atleast in pvz it seems like zergs are just really greedy. If they aren't allowed to maximize they're macro immediately it's imba somehow. Is TvZ this kind of problem? Or is it more of a timing thing which will go away once people can sense how common builds will behave?
On August 17 2010 17:39 Sabu113 wrote: Idk atleast in pvz it seems like zergs are just really greedy. If they aren't allowed to maximize they're macro immediately it's imba somehow. Is TvZ this kind of problem? Or is it more of a timing thing which will go away once people can sense how common builds will behave?
It's a timing thing where Terran's timing starts from the moment the game starts and lasts until the Zerg GGs.
;_;
But in all seriousness there's a myriad of reasons why people feel TvZ is imba right now. Just take a gander in the SC2 forums, 8/10 threads is about the issue. Some reasons may be more valid than others, but so far it seems like there's a lot of contributing factors.
I'm convinced for day one that Zerg is the only race really difficult to play in Sc2. Terran and Protoss are just so easy that if you are losing you are probably facing someone who was better than you at bw or got beat by paper/cisor/rock situation with build orders. With zerg you can lose to people way worse than you.
I can beat a Terran comp in hard with only probes as protoss. I kinda struggle when i try to beat him as zerg. Yea maybe i'm just that better with protoss ( or just that bad with zerg lol ) but still ... i feel the pain of the average zerg player.
On August 17 2010 08:27 Loser777 wrote: @OP Have you ever played Terran in SC1? It was all about timing and finding windows to attack. You can't expect to be totally even every second of the game and blaming everything imbalance if you have to defend during the game. Just because you're playing Zerg doesn't mean you can play Zerg SC1 style -20 mutas would just as easily die to Science Vessels and Zerglings melt from M&M anyway.
Terran in SC1 is more like ... defend all the gay shit that the other races can throw at you until you finally manage to win.
It was uphill every game imo
this ^^
It's kind of a nice relief playing T in SC2 from playing it in BW. Now I know how it feels like to play a race that's not ridiculously hard.
I hope ZvT gets fixed soon though, but I also hope zerg doesn't get overbuffed, because despite all the complaining the difference isn't ENORMOUS it's just noticeable.
"(Hopefully this doesn't read too harsh, it's been a tough Monday. <3<3 <3)
Our intent is not to have a game with broken balance in an attempt to sell an expansion. That should go without saying. It makes me sad it isn't.
Our intent is also to not apply knee jerk fixes based on the first few weeks as understanding of the game and strategies are still in flux. The game is young, and we don't feel that it would have been helpful to progressing peoples understanding by throwing in tons of fixes based on flavor-of-the-week (or day, or hour) strats.
We see a lot of variation between the regions. Making a change for how NA players play may be completely ridiculous for how KR players play, and actually mess up a balance there. For instance 10 of their top 20 players are zerg. So that's one place where we have to be mindful and careful and attack balance issues with great prejudice.
That said. There are balance changes coming. What everyone was seeing in beta with tons of quick balance changes are because it was in beta and we feel we can get away with throwing out a lot of 'we think this may help' type fixes. With a live environment we're not going to throw stuff out there unless we're pretty sure. We've played. We've looked at data. We've looked at each region. And then we act. Which isn't to say we may not be wrong from time to time, but it's a more measured approach than beta players may be used to or expecting."
All it says it that blizz is doing this the most logical way possible: Building up a large sample size, analyzing the data and carefully studying the impact of any proposed changes. They're just saying that they are aware that a patch could have a more profound effect on one group of players than another and that is taken into consideration.
Sure is a hell of a lot better than doing knee jerk reactions every time some dumbass bronze player posts a thread raging about how the game is imbalanced.
Actually, no. I want cross realm like everyone else, but that's not true at all. The koreans who are good are using the same units as you. They just happen to be a lot, lot better and have much higher apm. Coincidentally, there's more good zergs since that happens to be the race that takes the most work.
EPT
